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Old 07-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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boy, 12, charged with murder for 'beating to death his foster sister, 2

Manzana had this link on another thread of a 12 year old killing a 2 year old and I made a new thread for this case.

Is it the water? The food? What is going on with kids who murder?

A 12-year-old Maryland boy has been charged with second-degree murder in the beating death of his two-year-old foster sister, according to police.

Police said the suspect, whose name is not being revealed because he is a juvenile, killed Aniyah Batchelor by repeatedly hitting her with his hands on Tuesday inside his home in the 1800 block of Taylor Avenue in Fort Washington.

He has since been remanded to the Cheltenham Youth Facility, according to Julie Parker, a county police spokeswoman.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1zriVSEm6


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:09 PM
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This one is a hard one, I suppose it is always a catch-22 situation of what if's but it seems like the mother had her children removed prematurely?

There was an incident where it is said her son was visiting and was accidentally placed in a tub of scalding water.

This did not happen on mom's watch, could a child have quickly turned on only one faucet filling tub and that one happened to be the hot water? I guess there is room for a possible accident I would have to know more but clearly this 12 year old beat this foster sibling and to death!
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:15 PM
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Jean Price, a neighbor of the Fort Washington foster family, described the 12-year-old suspect as ‘the sweetest child’ who would always rush to help her with her groceries.

‘Their whole family is so special,’ she told the Post, adding that the 12-year-old boy sometimes talked with her about his grades. When she asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, she said, he replied, ‘I want to be successful.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1zrqE3cpp

See? this right here is what I was talking about in the other thread. It is hard to reconcile a 12 year old boy as described above with someone who suddenly decides to beat to death a 2 year old cousin/foster sister.

I can't scream for this kid's head, no matter how angry I am that little Aniyah suffered and died at his hands.

Sigh. Rough day/week for crimes against children. ETA cases like this just make me want to cry and cry. Where do I put the anger? On a child? So hard.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:23 PM
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See? this right here is what I was talking about in the other thread. It is hard to reconcile a 12 year old boy as described above with someone who suddenly decides to beat to death a 2 year old cousin/foster sister.


Yeah it really kinda is, those are completely different social situations, how a 12 year old responds to a neighbor lady and how he responds to a new sibling that is not part of his family equation are two vastly different things.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:25 PM
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Jean Price, a neighbor of the Fort Washington foster family, described the 12-year-old suspect as ‘the sweetest child’ who would always rush to help her with her groceries.

‘Their whole family is so special,’ she told the Post, adding that the 12-year-old boy sometimes talked with her about his grades. When she asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, she said, he replied, ‘I want to be successful.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1zrqE3cpp

See? this right here is what I was talking about in the other thread. It is hard to reconcile a 12 year old boy as described above with someone who suddenly decides to beat to death a 2 year old cousin/foster sister.

I can't scream for this kid's head, no matter how angry I am that little Aniyah suffered and died at his hands.

Sigh. Rough day/week for crimes against children. ETA cases like this just make me want to cry and cry. Where do I put the anger? On a child? So hard.
A 12 year old answered he wants to be "successful"? Not a specific job or career? That's odd.
Look at the traits of NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder + Psychopathy.) May explain.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:41 PM
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A 12 year old answered he wants to be "successful"? Not a specific job or career? That's odd.
Look at the traits of NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder + Psychopathy.) May explain.
Thank you I did a bit of reading but feel that one statement made to a neighbor and a violent act are not enough for me to even feel close to confident in diagnosing this kid as a narcissist or a psychopath. Also I am unsure which trait you feel his stating he wants to be successful is exhibiting? Is it grandiose? Is it caring only about appearances?

Not being contradictory but just don't feel I can make that leap with you based on the very limited info about the boy that I have read.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:00 PM
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Not being contradictory but just don't feel I can make that leap with you based on the very limited info about the boy that I have read.

I agree, I can not make that leap either but something was completely wrong with that boy.

I understand the whole sibling rivalry thing and it goes way beyond that being that was not immediate family. I've seen many a brother/sister mad and say things, even physical, but to beat another child to death that is so much younger, there is no excuse. Sorry for the run on sentence.

I am sure he may have been jealous of all the attention she may have received from his OWN parents. We will never know enough, even if we had the ability to talk to his teacher, that would add little incite. We would know how he related to peers and in a social school environment but not how he was at home with siblings or the foster child. I would not believe a word from parents at this time as they are trying to save their 12 year old.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:04 PM
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We may never know what drove this act and sometimes, I think that is the most disturbing difficult part of these cases. The never knowing the why? Why?
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:33 PM
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I'm sorry, but age 12 is the age of accountability and this boy was old enough to know what he was doing. The truth is, he obviously didn't care. He needs to be punished and that little 2 year old deserves justice. For those who feel sorry for him, he will be out at age 21, if not before. At least he can go out and live life at that time. The 2 year old is gone forever.

I may sound hard, but that is how I feel.

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LaLaw2000 View Post
I'm sorry, but age 12 is the age of accountability and this boy was old enough to know what he was doing. The truth is, he obviously didn't care. He needs to be punished and that little 2 year old deserves justice. For those who feel sorry for him, he will be out at age 21, if not before. At least he can go out and live life at that time. The 2 year old is gone forever.

I may sound hard, but that is how I feel.

MOO
Is that if he is charged under juvenile statutes? TIA
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:04 PM
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It was mentioned in the article that neither of the foster parents were at home, leaving the 2 yr old child in the care of their 15, 12, & 5 yr old children- this is a big red flag to me...
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:04 PM
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Is that if he is charged under juvenile statutes? TIA
Yes he has to be 14 to be certified but the judge can decide to (certify) if he chooses.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:54 PM
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The article mentions a 15 year old babysitting..where was the 15 year old when this happened?
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:07 PM
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I agree, I can not make that leap either but something was completely wrong with that boy.

I understand the whole sibling rivalry thing and it goes way beyond that being that was not immediate family. I've seen many a brother/sister mad and say things, even physical, but to beat another child to death that is so much younger, there is no excuse. Sorry for the run on sentence.

I am sure he may have been jealous of all the attention she may have received from his OWN parents. We will never know enough, even if we had the ability to talk to his teacher, that would add little incite. We would know how he related to peers and in a social school environment but not how he was at home with siblings or the foster child. I would not believe a word from parents at this time as they are trying to save their 12 year old.
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This is what I was thinking. I've been around kids who are so helpful in the beginning, even in helping to tend to younger children. But, it seems after a while of being treated like miniature adults, they suddenly rebel and become absolute brats. A friend also told me once of some of the evil things a young female relative would do to her little cousin. The girl's parents were very active missionaries, and we discussed whether they were so busy doing good deeds for others that they unconsciously failed to give enough attention to their daughter. So, yes, I could imagine the 12-year-old becoming terribly resentful of the 2-year-old.

Whether he should be tried as a juvenile, though, I'm undecided. In the cases I mention above, all of the children were younger than 10. I knew an 11-year-old boy who was very capable of caring for his 2-year-old brother (the parents did pay for a babysitter while they were away). I think it will depend upon the boy's level of maturity on behavioral tests. Developmentally, at 12 a child's thought processes become more abstract, so they understand the consequences of their actions and understand the concept of permanence (as in death). The boy could be developmentally delayed. And I, too, wonder where the 15-year-old was while this happened. Just a very sad case altogether.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:29 AM
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Thank you I did a bit of reading but feel that one statement made to a neighbor and a violent act are not enough for me to even feel close to confident in diagnosing this kid as a narcissist or a psychopath. Also I am unsure which trait you feel his stating he wants to be successful is exhibiting? Is it grandiose? Is it caring only about appearances?

Not being contradictory but just don't feel I can make that leap with you based on the very limited info about the boy that I have read.
Where one of my children goes to school, it seems all the teachers talk about is being "successful in life"...at the meetings they talk about wanting our children's time there to "be successful". It's even on posters in the hall. Maybe it's that way at his school?
I also can't read too much into that statement.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:42 AM
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Thank you I did a bit of reading but feel that one statement made to a neighbor and a violent act are not enough for me to even feel close to confident in diagnosing this kid as a narcissist or a psychopath. Also I am unsure which trait you feel his stating he wants to be successful is exhibiting? Is it grandiose? Is it caring only about appearances?

Not being contradictory but just don't feel I can make that leap with you based on the very limited info about the boy that I have read.
For me, the bottom line is that this 12 year old boy beat a 2 year old to death. This takes some effort and intention . To persist in the assault until the 2 year old was near death or dead is "enough" for me to conclude this is a deeply disturbed young man. "Narcissistic" or antisocial or psychopathic or whatever . . . any person who commits to beating a 2 year old for the length of time it takes them to become mortally injured makes the neighbor's kind words irrelevant. Seriously, his verbalizations about "success" and how impressed his neighbor for whatever reason FADE into the background because he beat a 2 year old to death with his own hands.

Whatever this 12 year old child is, he is murderous, and does not possess the empathy or foresight to curb his impulses.

I've been following the other 12 (now 13) year old Cristian Fernandez's story, and disagree he should be tried as an adult, very much. I hope the 12 year old in this incident remains free of this issue. At the same time, the seriousness of their crime must not be dumbed down due to their age, just dealt with appropriately, perhaps creatively (not exactly a strong suit in the criminal justice realm, but I still wish).

Whatever he is, he murdered a helpless toddler at an age where MOST human beings have firmly established empathy for babies. I don't care if he told the neighbor he wanted to start a non-profit for kids with cancer . . . he killed a baby with his own hands. He is dangerous, unpredictable, impulsive, and deadly . The fact of what he did describes him, not the neighbor's brief interactions with him, no matter how positive.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:55 AM
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I wonder why 911 was nor called until the father came home?
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:31 AM
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I have to say at this time I am leaning towards sentencing him as an adult. How much past his 12th birthday is he?, how long will it take for justice to be handed down? He could easily be 14 by the time justice is handed down. Honestly I do not think our juvenile system in that short of a time can work out the problems this boy has. I'm not saying lock him up and throw away the key but he needs a good twenty years imo, maybe then he can.....? I doubt juvey will help this child.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:53 AM
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I have to say at this time I am leaning towards sentencing him as an adult. How much past his 12th birthday is he?, how long will it take for justice to be handed down? He could easily be 14 by the time justice is handed down. Honestly I do not think our juvenile system in that short of a time can work out the problems this boy has. I'm not saying lock him up and throw away the key but he needs a good twenty years imo, maybe then he can.....? I doubt juvey will help this child.
Neither will prison, imo

Very sad and tough case. Not knowing anything about this boy is hard to judge him based on limited information.

Was he a troubled kid?

How did he do in school?

Had he ever been in fights?

Did he ever beat on his 4 year old sister?

Did he ever beat the 2 year old before?

I'm not condoning what he's done but I don't think we can officially say this kid is a psychopath.

What if he has a mental illness? Was he on any type of medication?

And so on .......

I would need to know more and if he's tried as an adult, I'm sure a jury would have a difficult time convicting a 12 year old without a mental helath assessment.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:19 AM
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Neither will prison, imo

Very sad and tough case. Not knowing anything about this boy is hard to judge him based on limited information.

Was he a troubled kid?

How did he do in school?

Had he ever been in fights?

Did he ever beat on his 4 year old sister?

Did he ever beat the 2 year old before?

I'm not condoning what he's done but I don't think we can officially say this kid is a psychopath.

What if he has a mental illness? Was he on any type of medication?

And so on .......

I would need to know more and if he's tried as an adult, I'm sure a jury would have a difficult time convicting a 12 year old without a mental helath assessment.
For me, having answers to any other these questions is meaningless. Obviously, something is wrong since they're operating outside normal parameters. Every criminal has all kinds of excuses for why they murdered someone, did drugs, or robbed a bank. Is their defense ever just "I felt like it", "It gave me pleasure" or "I was greedy"? No. They always fall back on their sad childhood or mental illness as an excuse. No one is helping the situation by making excuses and coddling these psychos.

I don't care how old or young the murderer is. If they take another life, they need to pay with their own.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:34 PM
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For me, having answers to any other these questions is meaningless. Obviously, something is wrong since they're operating outside normal parameters. Every criminal has all kinds of excuses for why they murdered someone, did drugs, or robbed a bank. Is their defense ever just "I felt like it", "It gave me pleasure" or "I was greedy"? No. They always fall back on their sad childhood or mental illness as an excuse. No one is helping the situation by making excuses and coddling these psychos.

I don't care how old or young the murderer is. If they take another life, they need to pay with their own.
I agree with you totally, Cracka*Jaxx.

A murderer is a murderer, IMO. I am not a bleeding heart for excuses. It is what it is - murder of a two year old in the worst way - beaten to death. I wonder how long it took? Coddle him now and I suspect he will either do the same or worse in the future. Not me, coach. He could have stopped, but didn't.

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Old 07-08-2012, 12:40 AM
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I agree with you totally, Cracka*Jaxx.

A murderer is a murderer, IMO. I am not a bleeding heart for excuses. It is what it is - murder of a two year old in the worst way - beaten to death. I wonder how long it took? Coddle him now and I suspect he will either do the same or worse in the future. Not me, coach. He could have stopped, but didn't.

MOO
I don't see anyone here suggesting he be coddled. I too would like to know the answers to n~t's questions. I don't see how anyone will ever be able to prevent this type of crime unless these questions are asked. These kids need to get help before it gets to this point. These questions need to be asked, every time.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:04 PM
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I agree with you totally, Cracka*Jaxx.

A murderer is a murderer, IMO. I am not a bleeding heart for excuses. It is what it is - murder of a two year old in the worst way - beaten to death. I wonder how long it took? Coddle him now and I suspect he will either do the same or worse in the future. Not me, coach. He could have stopped, but didn't.

MOO
And I agree with you both.

I have followed young juvenile murderers for years now and their acts of homicide are extremely heinous and cruel. Most of them consist of premeditation and they try to cover up their crimes.

I dont know what the answer is when the very young murder but imo it certainly is not the juvenile justice system that lets them out by the time they are either 18 or no later than 21.

Imo, as far as the excuses there are none that will rationalize such a horrific act away. It matters not to me IF he was a troubled kid or even IF he suffered some type of abuse or IF his life wasnt ideal. Abuse doesnt turn someone into being a murder ...killing someone makes them a murderer. If abuse really was a contributing factor then the millions who are abused yearly would turn around and abuse or become a murderer. These young killers are in a league of their own, imo, and extremely dangerous.

Remember the 8 year old AZ boy that laid in wait and murdered two men in cold blood? He too got such sympathy just because of his age. He got more sympathy than the ones he murdered and not one shred of abuse was ever uncovered.

Well this is what is happening with that kid now who is in a mental health treatment facility. It is obvious that the treatment isnt working but I have read that treating a fledgling psychopath with precription medication who has a conduct disorder can make them even worse and IMO, CR cant be fixed.

A probation officer has moved to revoke the probation of a 12-year-old St. Johns, Ariz., boy who killed his father four years ago, alleging that the child repeatedly threatened staffers and damaged property at a treatment center in Phoenix.

A petition filed last week by Apache County juvenile probation officer Michael O'Brien says the boy engaged in a series of violent and threatening incidents over the past three months. While simulating a handgun, Christian allegedly talked of shooting his therapist at the Youth Development Institute, a private, not-for-profit facility in central Phoenix. He also is accused of shoving the therapist against a wall, threatening to kill a roommate, destroying property and running away. Christian Romero has no defense attorney, and his guardian ad litem could not be reached for comment.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ion/53808790/1

Let this kid out and he will be moving to a town near one of us and our children or grandchildren.

We have got to find a responsible way of dealing with young killers and the juvie system isnt the answer. And dont think these young kids dont know they are treated much differently than if they were an adult. They know. They could kill 40 people and still be out in a few short years. Does this really make any sense and how is it justice for the victims who have been murdered.

I imagine this kid in this case lost his temper when the 2 year old toddler maybe got into something that belonged to him or maybe the 2 year old wanted his attention and he went ballistic because the toddler was 'bugging' him.

Very few of the cases I have read in recent years really had nothing to do with abuse but was more about self centeredness and the kids flew into a rage because they were either being 'bugged' by the victim or didnt get their way about something or had one of their material possessions taken away.

IMO
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:37 AM
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I'm sorry, but age 12 is the age of accountability and this boy was old enough to know what he was doing. The truth is, he obviously didn't care. He needs to be punished and that little 2 year old deserves justice. For those who feel sorry for him, he will be out at age 21, if not before. At least he can go out and live life at that time. The 2 year old is gone forever.

I may sound hard, but that is how I feel.

MOO
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Originally Posted by PeteyGirl View Post
For me, the bottom line is that this 12 year old boy beat a 2 year old to death. This takes some effort and intention . To persist in the assault until the 2 year old was near death or dead is "enough" for me to conclude this is a deeply disturbed young man. "Narcissistic" or antisocial or psychopathic or whatever . . . any person who commits to beating a 2 year old for the length of time it takes them to become mortally injured makes the neighbor's kind words irrelevant. Seriously, his verbalizations about "success" and how impressed his neighbor for whatever reason FADE into the background because he beat a 2 year old to death with his own hands.

Whatever this 12 year old child is, he is murderous, and does not possess the empathy or foresight to curb his impulses.

I've been following the other 12 (now 13) year old Cristian Fernandez's story, and disagree he should be tried as an adult, very much. I hope the 12 year old in this incident remains free of this issue. At the same time, the seriousness of their crime must not be dumbed down due to their age, just dealt with appropriately, perhaps creatively (not exactly a strong suit in the criminal justice realm, but I still wish).

Whatever he is, he murdered a helpless toddler at an age where MOST human beings have firmly established empathy for babies. I don't care if he told the neighbor he wanted to start a non-profit for kids with cancer . . . he killed a baby with his own hands. He is dangerous, unpredictable, impulsive, and deadly . The fact of what he did describes him, not the neighbor's brief interactions with him, no matter how positive.
Please do not misunderstand. I am not saying I feel sorry for the 12 year old or that I think he should not face whatever consequences the law has in store for him.

I was simply expressing my frustration with cases such as this where victim and perpetrator are both children. It just strikes me as doubly tragic. For the family, two lives, all that unknown potential, poof - gone.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:17 PM
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LaLaw2000 LaLaw2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
Please do not misunderstand. I am not saying I feel sorry for the 12 year old or that I think he should not face whatever consequences the law has in store for him.

I was simply expressing my frustration with cases such as this where victim and perpetrator are both children. It just strikes me as doubly tragic. For the family, two lives, all that unknown potential, poof - gone.
It is tragic for all involved here. I totally get what you are saying, tlcox.

This boy did not get to age 12 without knowing there are consequesces to ones own actions, IMO, and he needs to pay for ending the life of a two year old baby.

I am just always on the side of the victim, and I know you always are also from having read your posts for so long. I think we are all extremely frustrated.

MOO
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