Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

[Soulmagent]

Originally Posted by Mjskit

I thought the trunk reeked because Kaylee actually decomposed in the trunk for days not was killed then removed quickly. I also thought only dogs could smell decomp that happens within minutes of death because of their keen sense of smell.

It thought it was at least 2 or 3 hours before a dog could smell the chemical breakdown that they are trained to smell. But I have been really off lately so dont quote me.

I went shopping for RV's on craigslist in Evansdale. Then I checked out the personals..Wow. I feel all sleezy now.

[princesspjs]

Originally Posted by huckleberryhound

So, now there is reportedly video survelliance tapes of the girls near Elizabeth's house at 12:15 and 12 minutes later at 12:27 , a biker says their bikes are abandoned on the trail, all the way across town on the lake trail. That is such a short time frame , no matter what happened!

Originally Posted by nmr

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=l...&z=15&lci=bike

According to Google Maps, it is 1.6 miles - or about eight minutes - to bike from Lederman's Big and Tall Store to where the girls' bikes were found. That's a very tight time frame for something to happen where their bikes were found, though. To me, that would indicate that they may have set their bikes on the path themselves and then run into trouble shortly afterward.

Oh my goodness! Actually, the bikes were found at 12:20. The 12:27 time comes from the time the biker either made or received a phone call which is how he narrowed down what time he saw the bikes on the path.

Something is NOT right here! How did they go missing and their bikes be discovered within 5 MINUTES???

As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often.

“I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/re...a4bcf887a.html

[liltexans]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Maybe they are looking for keys. Or part of a cell phone case, or something really random and unimportant most people think nothing of or doesnt notice when pieces fall of whatever object ?

Like a torn up headliner in a car drops certain fillers. Or a beaded key ring looses beads. Or a certain kind of park tree leaf or nut on a floorboard or a certain pets hair on a car seat? Did the girls have pets?

Elizabeth has a cat. An article I posted a few days ago mentioned that her cat has been waiting on her bed since she disappeared. Her mom said the cat sleeps with Elizabeth every night.

I don't know of any other pets.

[nikb]

Originally Posted by ela_ss teacher

I've looked & looked but i can't seem to find it. How do we know the girls were seen on video??

It was in today's press conf. I haven't seen a transcript yet though.

[sweetpea33]

Originally Posted by ela_ss teacher

I've looked & looked but i can't seem to find it. How do we know the girls were seen on video??

LE said in the presser today they had them on video at about 12:15, the same time Grandma last saw them. I believe he said it was B&W video and was from the back as they were going away from the camera so they had no clothing description

[tiredblondy]

I've been here too long at WS. I'm suspicious of any witness, parent,stranger, etc. I sure do understand where LE's coming from. I think they know so much more than we will be able to accept at first when it all comes out! Sadly

[tiredblondy]

Originally Posted by princesspjs

Oh my goodness! Actually, the bikes were found at 12:20. The 12:27 time comes from the time the biker either made or received a phone call which is how he narrowed down what time he saw the bikes on the path.

Something is NOT right here! How did they go missing and their bikes be discovered within 5 MINUTES???



http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/re...a4bcf887a.html

Maybe someone in a vehicle moved the bikes?

[Confusion]

Originally Posted by tiredblondy

I've been here too long at WS. I'm suspicious of any witness, parent,stranger, etc. I sure do understand where LE's coming from. I think they know so much more than we will be able to accept at first when it all comes out! Sadly

That's why I posted my possible explanation for the early sighting of the bikes. It just seemed too convenient, and the timing was too tight. Rather than assume that the witness was lying and/or guilty of something, I decided to try to find a way to make it make sense.

ETA: The one thing that confused me with the dogs was that they went from the bikes (which were leaning against the fence) directly to the water/wooded area, whichever was the correct version. If the bikes had been laying in the path and moved by someone else later, the girls' trail wouldn't have started at the bikes, it would have started on the path.

[Soulmagent]

Originally Posted by ela_ss teacher

I've looked & looked but i can't seem to find it. How do we know the girls were seen on video??

Here is the link to where he says the girls are seen on video.

Also please listen at 3;26 and tell us what you hear. TIA!

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisappe...163234846.html

[paris_paris]

Originally Posted by princesspjs

Something is NOT right here! How did they go missing and their bikes be discovered within 5 MINUTES???

I think the bikes were found later... around 4:00. The guy that saw the bikes at 12:27 reported them later when he found out 2 girls on bikes were missing.

[sweetpea33]

Originally Posted by liltexans

Elizabeth has a cat. An article I posted a few days ago mentioned that her cat has been waiting on her bed since she disappeared. Her mom said the cat sleeps with Elizabeth every night.

I don't know of any other pets.

didn't tammy say in one of the interviews when asked if either of the girls had a dog, and if they let their dog see if the can find them?? i think it was JVM the first night of coverage. and tammy said Lyric has 4 dogs but none of them lived with her. this was before learning of Lyric living with relatives.

[ela_ss teacher]

Originally Posted by sweetpea33

LE said in the presser today they had them on video at about 12:15, the same time Grandma last saw them. I believe he said it was B&W video and was from the back as they were going away from the camera so they had no clothing description

Thank you!
So what do we take from this bit of info? G'ma was mistakenly off on her time? Fudged the time bc she wasn't sure?
That certainly complicates the bikes on the trail sighting info- or does it?
Does the video sighting coincide with the grass waterer's eye witness account?
Gosh, where in the world are they?

[Thinkzerz]

If they were picked up and the bikes dropped off at the trail, wouldn't a perp most likely drop the bikes off on a side road with less chances of being seen? And what about the person that said the girls were seen riding their bikes in that area that day?

[CuriousGuy]

For the life of me, I do not know why LE insisted the community was not in danger. Did they assume the girls were in the lake ? I'm sorry , but to insist that there is no reason for alarm when two girls have been abducted is just wrong.

[Plumeria5]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Maybe they are looking for keys. Or part of a cell phone case, or something really random and unimportant most people think nothing of or doesnt notice when pieces fall of whatever object ?

Like a torn up headliner in a car drops certain fillers. Or a beaded key ring looses beads. Or a certain kind of park tree leaf or nut on a floorboard or a certain pets hair on a car seat? Did the girls have pets?

During an interview, I believe Misty said Lyric did not have a dog but Elizabeth had a dog or dogs.

[GCP]

Originally Posted by paris_paris

I think the bikes were found later... around 4:00. The guy that saw the bikes at 12:27 reported them later when he found out 2 girls on bikes were missing.

This correct I'm pretty sure. IIrc he called his daughter when he stopped to get a drink or go to the restroom. He didn't call her to tell her he'd seen the bikes. He reported the bikes later after he heard the girls were missing. He used the call to his daughter as a reference to know what time he saw the bikes.

[JodiR]

Don't know if this has been posted but here is the video showing the girls on their bikes.

Actually, it is bad quality so I can't believe they can tell it is them.

http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/...id_12072.shtml

[blair_ne]

This is my first post, so please forgive me if I do something unorthodox.

I've read hundreds upon hundreds of posts here and read numerous MSM articles and only see a few glancing references to the river. Looking down on the site in Google Earth it appears that if someone were to go approximately a block or two east of where the bikes were found there's a trail leading under the highway (I-380) and the over to the river. I would think that if someone were going to dump either a body, evidence, or both, that's not too far to get to the river where it would be washed away. This is opposed to the lake where the evidence would just sink and eventually be found.

It just seems a little weird to me that there's not a team of boats going up and down the stretch of river south of Evansdale/Waterloo still looking for any evidence that may have washed ashore or possibly clothing caught in trees along the banks.

Also, Omaha is my nearest city and I'm told that there's a bend in the river by Bellevue, just south of Omaha, where several bodies have been found over the years. (I have no documentation of this at the moment.) I was wondering if there is a similar bend in the river near this area.

This has just been stuck in the back of my mind> I still find it odd that not more of a focus was placed on the river since it is relatively close, has relatively easy access, and (to my amateur eyes) appears to be a better place to get rid of a body or other evidence than a small lake.

I hope I'm not thinking to cynically, but around here (since there's a major river nearby) when a missing person case happens people usually think "check the river"...

I have to add - Thank you to all of the helpful posters that have kept me and others abreast of the latest news in this case!

Update - I also have to add that I'm very pro-LE, so I'm not criticizing them, I just couldn't find any answers to this question of mine.

[ela_ss teacher]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Here is the link to where he says the girls are seen on video.

Also please listen at 3;26 and tell us what you hear. TIA!

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisappe...163234846.html

Okay, thanks for the link! So grandma time and video time are the same- check.


Now as for the question the reporter asks, I felt like she said, "can you tell us anything about Misty's cell phone and car being towed?" or something close to that.

[paris_paris]

Originally Posted by blair_ne

It just seems a little weird to me that there's not a team of boats going up and down the stretch of river south of Evansdale/Waterloo still looking for any evidence that may have washed ashore or possibly clothing caught in trees along the banks.

They've been all over the river in kayaks.

[GrainneDhu]

Originally Posted by huckleberryhound

So, now there is reportedly video survelliance tapes of the girls near Elizabeth's house at 12:15 and 12 minutes later at 12:27 , a biker says their bikes are abandoned on the trail, all the way across town on the lake trail. That is such a short time frame , no matter what happened!

It was do-able, though. Someone posted that according to Google Maps, the distance between was estimated at 7-8 minutes.

That would take us to 12:23 pm. That leaves about 3 minutes for a perp to pop out of ambush, grab one girl by the arm (probably Lyric), threaten to hurt her if Elizabeth didn't comply, make her throw her purse over the lakeside fence and then marching them both off into the woods.

I'd love to be able to ask the 12:27 witness if he happened to look into the woods when he saw the bikes on the path. I'm sure LE already has and I'm reasonably certain the answer was no. Otherwise, LE would have released whatever description the witness could give.

I'm not sure he would have looked into the woods, though. He was on a blind curve, he'd just about run into an obstacle and he still had to look sharp in case another bicyclist popped around the curve. Nothing like avoiding one hazard only to be hit head-on because it made you forget to watch out.

Force the girls into something like a van, put zip-ties or some other restraint device on them and the perpetrator could be gone before 12:30 pm.

If the 12:27 sighting is accurate, this really reminds me of GeorgeAnn Hawkins, who was one of Ted Bundy's victims. She was walking down an alley behind a row of fraternities and sororities on a night where they were all having parties to celebrate the beginning of the fall semester. There were roughly 1000 people attending parties at the fraternities and sororities. Many of them were walking down the alley in both directions.

The alley was well lit except for one 30 foot stretch where a storage shed blocked the light. The dark stretch no doubt seemed darker in contrast to the lights on either side (the human retina takes something like 6 minutes to fully adapt to low light situations).

She disappeared from that one dark stretch.

On the day before he was executed, Ted finally confessed to her abduction. He said that he had a fake cast on his arm (a ruse he'd used before) and asked her to help him with his briefcase. He'd parked his VW bug in that area earlier in the evening and had placed a tire iron underneath the car in preparation. She stepped over to the car to help with the briefcase, he reached down, grabbed the tire iron, knocked her unconscious with one blow and placed her in the area beside the driver's seat (he'd removed the passenger side seat, one reason he liked VW Bugs).

It only took him about three minutes from the time he approached Ms Hawkins until the time he drove off with her unconscious body.

Something to consider is that lacking a fear response means that psychopaths don't waste time with hesitation once they have decided to take an action. Saves time at times when seconds count.

[CoachSue]

Originally Posted by Pensfan

Why was that Facebook page recently made private? Does family operate it?
Anytime any interesting info was posted on it, the info was quickly deleted.

I actually think that is a different FB page (the one that is now private). I am pretty sure the original one was called "Bring Elizabeth and Lyric home" and the new one is something like "Help Bring them home" .. The original FB page seems to be gone

[Plumeria5]

Originally Posted by JodiR

Don't know if this has been posted but here is the video showing the girls on their bikes.

Actually, it is bad quality so I can't believe they can tell it is them.

http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/...id_12072.shtml

You know what struck me as soon as I saw the video...even though it is slowed down it appears that Elizabeth is first and she is quite a ways ahead of Lyric. Could be that someone drove up and grabbed one of them and then the other girl attempted to help and was taken too.

[nmr]

Originally Posted by GrainneDhu

It was do-able, though. Someone posted that according to Google Maps, the distance between was estimated at 7-8 minutes.

That would take us to 12:23 pm. That leaves about 3 minutes for a perp to pop out of ambush, grab one girl by the arm (probably Lyric), threaten to hurt her if Elizabeth didn't comply, make her throw her purse over the lakeside fence and then marching them both off into the woods.

I'd love to be able to ask the 12:27 witness if he happened to look into the woods when he saw the bikes on the path. I'm sure LE already has and I'm reasonably certain the answer was no. Otherwise, LE would have released whatever description the witness could give.

I'm not sure he would have looked into the woods, though. He was on a blind curve, he'd just about run into an obstacle and he still had to look sharp in case another bicyclist popped around the curve. Nothing like avoiding one hazard only to be hit head-on because it made you forget to watch out.

Force the girls into something like a van, put zip-ties or some other restraint device on them and the perpetrator could be gone before 12:30 pm.

If the 12:27 sighting is accurate, this really reminds me of GeorgeAnn Hawkins, who was one of Ted Bundy's victims. She was walking down an alley behind a row of fraternities and sororities on a night where they were all having parties to celebrate the beginning of the fall semester. There were roughly 1000 people attending parties at the fraternities and sororities. Many of them were walking down the alley in both directions.

The alley was well lit except for one 30 foot stretch where a storage shed blocked the light. The dark stretch no doubt seemed darker in contrast to the lights on either side (the human retina takes something like 6 minutes to fully adapt to low light situations).

She disappeared from that one dark stretch.

On the day before he was executed, Ted finally confessed to her abduction. He said that he had a fake cast on his arm (a ruse he'd used before) and asked her to help him with his briefcase. He'd parked his VW bug in that area earlier in the evening and had placed a tire iron underneath the car in preparation. She stepped over to the car to help with the briefcase, he reached down, grabbed the tire iron, knocked her unconscious with one blow and placed her in the area beside the driver's seat (he'd removed the passenger side seat, one reason he liked VW Bugs).

It only took him about three minutes from the time he approached Ms Hawkins until the time he drove off with her unconscious body.

Something to consider is that lacking a fear response means that psychopaths don't waste time with hesitation once they have decided to take an action. Saves time at times when seconds count.

Well, that just made the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up.

[Shelby2]

Originally Posted by Mdcastle

I question why they're still searching cars.

If the perp was going to move the girls or their remains, why do it now, as opposed to having done it immediately after the abduction or waiting until the heat dies down?

Draining the lake was grasping at straws but I could see the logic in absolutely ruling it out. This seems to be an even bigger waste of time.

Perhaps they got new info? During the search of the lake, that is not all LE was doing. They have been investigating all leads and tips, they have canvased neighborhoods, ruled our RSO's, and remember the girls were traced to the area-one of the mom's said their trail stopped at the lake-so there was good reason to search there. LE is not going to talk about everything they are investigating relating to this case.