The Package and the Defense Motion

[JBean]

Please discuss here.

[rollinginit]

"Sources say the letter was from a pent-up Holmes to one of his professors," the news organization reported. "In it, he talked about shooting people and even included crude drawings of a gunman and his victims."
School officials said in a statement that a package discovered at the Facilities Services building on Monday had been delivered to the campus by the U.S. Postal Service that same day and was turned over to authorities within hours of delivery.
"This package prompted the building's evacuation at 12:26 p.m. and employees were allowed to return by 3:06 p.m.," the statement said.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...50/detail.html

[Liz]

Fox News is still standing firmly by their story that JH mailed a notebook to a psychiatrist, chock full of details about how he was going to kill people. (A little earlier on Fox First I heard a report that they believe it arrived to UC on July 12th.)

Jana Winter, the reporter who broke the article, was just on Fox and Friends and said, "What we don't know is how specific it was to what actually happened, but there were definitely gun-holding stick figures shooting at other stick figures.".

Link to Jana Winter's report:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...est=latestnews

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Liz

Fox News is still standing firmly by their story that JH mailed a notebook to a psychiatrist, chock full of details about how he was going to kill people. (A little earlier on Fox First I heard a report that they believe it arrived to UC on July 12th.)

Jana Winter, the reporter who broke the article, was just on Fox and Friends and said, "What we don't know is how specific it was to what actually happened, but there were definitely gun-holding stick figures shooting at other stick figures.".

Link to Jana Winter's report:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...est=latestnews

I think everybody agrees JH send a package. University denies it arrived before the shooting.

[Liz]

Sorry to quote my own post but I wanted to bring it over before the other thread gets closed later.

Originally Posted by February

That link says a letter was mailed to a psychologist at the university... the Notebook says it was sent to a University of Colorado psychiatrist

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...#ixzz21gZnDGu4


so my question is - is the letter and the notebook a separate mail or package to different people?

Originally Posted by jjenny

Well, there is foxnews for you.

Originally Posted by Liz

jjenny - Can you possibly clear this up, please? I have no way of knowing which news media outlet is providing the correct & factual information. And I like to try keep the facts straight.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Liz

Sorry to quote my own post but I wanted to bring it over before the other thread gets closed later.

I have no way of knowing which news network is providing accurate information. My guess is none, especially since because of gag order all of them are using anonymous sources. But looking at fox news story today, they already appear to be backtracking. Now their source says that maybe the package was postmarked on July 12, rather than arriving to University on July 12. University denies they got it before the shooting and claims it arrived on Monday.

"When told of the university's statement, a source said the package may have been postmarked on July 12, but arrived before the massacre."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...#ixzz21jQXNyQx

[Liz]

Originally Posted by jjenny

I have no way of knowing which news network is providing accurate information. My guess is none, especially since because of gag order all of them are using anonymous sources. But looking at fox news story today, they already appear to be backtracking. Now their source says that maybe the package was postmarked on July 12, rather than arriving to University on July 12. University denies they got it before the shooting and claims it arrived on Monday.

"When told of the university's statement, a source said the package may have been postmarked on July 12, but arrived before the massacre."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...#ixzz21jQXNyQx

Thanks, jjenny. It doesn't appear to be 'backtracking' by FOX to me. It appears that once FOX presented one of their two 'sources' for the article with what the UC officials said, the article was updated to state the "source said the package may have been postmarked on July 12, but arrived before the massacre".

Even IF the package was postdated the 12th (and I'm not stating it was, as I do not know), there is no reason why UC wouldn't have had it on the 13th. But by Monday, the 16th, at the very latest.

I didn't see any backtracking; just updating, in my opinion. The news outlets can only go by what their confidential sources provide them. Of course, those sources are really not supposed to be revealing any information regarding the case after Judge Sylvester imposed the gag order on Monday.

I guess I'd rather have a little information and have to try to sift through it, than to get no information at all.

But really, what would most of us expect UC to say about the alleged packages arrival? Would we really expect them to admit to it IF the package had arrived on the 13th, thus making them somewhat negligent; due to not opening their mail and possibly preventing that horrific tragedy?

JMO

[jjenny]

It arrived on July 12 vs it was postmarked July 12 are not one and the same. And yes, of course, these news organizations can hide behind "our sources told us." But they are using anonymous sources, and there have been a lot of contradicting information published already by the msm. I don't know what someone else would expect University to say about package arriving, but I expect them to tell the truth.

[21merc7]

Tweet from News 9 in Aurora (bbm):

FULL TEXT OF NEWS RELEASE #TheaterShooting
Update on suspicious packages discovered at
University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus

AURORA, CO (July 25, 2012) – Officials at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus can confirm that the suspicious package discovered at the Facilities Services building on Monday, July 23, 2012, was delivered to the campus by the United States Postal Service that same day, immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours of delivery. This package prompted the building’s evacuation at 12:26 p.m. and employees were allowed to return by 3:06 p.m.

The anonymous Fox News source that the package was received on July 12 and sat on a loading dock is inaccurate.

We remain unable to discuss anything further on this package in accordance with the order of Judge Sylvester on July 23, 2012.

http://www.***************/show/ihd32j

ETA: Add link to News 9 news story containing same:

http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...response-times

[21merc7]

Originally Posted by jjenny

It arrived on July 12 vs it was postmarked July 12 are not one and the same. And yes, of course, these news organizations can hide behind "our sources told us." But they are using anonymous sources, and there have been a lot of contradicting information published already by the msm. I don't know what someone else would expect University to say about package arriving, but I expect them to tell the truth.

You are correct, the University would tell the truth. In a situation like this, they would have no choice.

[songline]

Originally Posted by Liz

Fox News is still standing firmly by their story that JH mailed a notebook to a psychiatrist, chock full of details about how he was going to kill people. (A little earlier on Fox First I heard a report that they believe it arrived to UC on July 12th.)

Jana Winter, the reporter who broke the article, was just on Fox and Friends and said, "What we don't know is how specific it was to what actually happened, but there were definitely gun-holding stick figures shooting at other stick figures.".

Link to Jana Winter's report:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25...est=latestnews

I think there was a correction about that date later on. I don't have a link but
I seem to recall July 23...

OK here is something. it is at the end of the article.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...l-after-attack

[JBean]

Just a reminder to use MSM links to substantiate fact.
No they don't always get it right but that's what we are sticking with here.
Gracias.

[Liz]

Quotes pulled from a msm story posted 20 hours ago:

Police found the package as Holmes described it, including his name in the return address, and it's now being analyzed, the source said.

It was unclear how long the package had been in the mail room before its discovery.

In response to reporters' queries about the package, the Anschutz Medical Campus issued a statement saying it could not comment on anything regarding the ongoing criminal investigation into the theater shooting, under order of Arapahoe County District Judge William Sylvester.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...o-package?lite

Prior to this story, IMO, UC was already trying to avoid & limit information provided to the media but now they are jumping on the the judge's gag order, which I'm almost certain doesn't even apply to them.

[MayraMM]

I wonder why he's being so cooperative. Usually shooters like this kill themselves or commit suicide by cop, yet this guy told about the bombs in the apartment and the package sent to the university. Could it be remorse or a moment of lucidity? Or perhaps it didn't go down as planned. Maybe he expected to commit the shooting and have the building go up at the same time, then walk outside into a barrage of bullets. When it didn't happen that way, it ruined his party. He may have been hoping for a higher body count. Of course, this is all speculation, but I really hope we hear from him at some point what he was thinking.

[Liz]

Jul 26, 2012 - Experts react to accused gunman's notebook mailed to psychiatrist before movie massacre

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1755292713001/

[Liz]

Jul 26, 2012 - Legal panel weighs in on case (with Jenna Lee)

Unable to get video link to work, so .....

Try pasting this in your browser: video.foxnews.com/v/1756080141001/importance-of-notebook-sent-to-psychiatrist-in-co-massacre/?playlist_id=87485

If that doesn't work, go to video.foxnews.com and look for Importance of notebook sent to psychiatrist in CO massacre.

[SmoothOperator]

Moo but the University has about zero choice of whether they want to be honest.. The fact is this is not a detail or details that they can lie about, twist the truth, or deceive and just sweep under the rug and keep out of the publics knowledge.. They do not have that choice wrt anything remotely related to this case.. Obviously that includes any/all details regarding the packages and notebook the shooter sent to the University..

Moo is its just another nail in the coffin of this shooter who is sorely mistaken if he's under the guise of somehow getting away with this(ie. his attempts at an insanity defense).. Because his little special delivery only further cements the amount of premeditation and planning that went into his murdering/injuring 70+ innocent human beings!!

Bye-bye Jimmy! And not bye-bye birdie to the loony bin!.. But much different bye-bye Jimmy to the Big House with the Big Boys that will eagerly be awaiting your p**** ass and welcome you with OPEN ARMS!!

[x_files]

Originally Posted by 21merc7

You are correct, the University would tell the truth. In a situation like this, they would have no choice.

Look at Penn State scandal. It's a business they may be in covering their ass mode. But, they should be honest and trustworthy source. I'd wait until trial and you see photos of the evidence. The post mark will tell the truth.

[rollinginit]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing........but I have several letters in my box at home that haven't been opened yet.

My hubby even has a huge box outside in the garage that was delivered from fed-ex about 3 weeks ago. It's un opened. We think/hope it's all the light bulbs we ordered.

Just saying....maybe there is no big rush on the teachers part to open mail, especially if it's unknown mail. Don't professors also receive a lot of junk stuff and other journals from other sources?

[February]

What about this one ? News are stating mail/package by the dock, by the mailroom and this one states under the door of a professor.


Officials say one package was slipped under the door of a professor, who didn't recognize the sender. The other was in the campus mail system.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ege&ir=College

Looks like there are multiple packages or letters out there and the one from July 12 package was found because FBI searched the mail room for more so they found out this package.

Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes' name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.

Read more: http://www.myfoxla.com/story/1911583...#ixzz21m7BOkg0

[February]

FYI :
U.S. Postal Service spokesman David Rupert said the agency's inspectors have no direct knowledge of the package reportedly containing the notebook. He said no one has contacted the Postal Service for assistance in the investigation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1705093.html

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by MayraMM

I wonder why he's being so cooperative. Usually shooters like this kill themselves or commit suicide by cop, yet this guy told about the bombs in the apartment and the package sent to the university. Could it be remorse or a moment of lucidity? Or perhaps it didn't go down as planned. Maybe he expected to commit the shooting and have the building go up at the same time, then walk outside into a barrage of bullets. When it didn't happen that way, it ruined his party. He may have been hoping for a higher body count. Of course, this is all speculation, but I really hope we hear from him at some point what he was thinking.

Many of mass shooters don't kill themselves or commit suicide by cop.
And it's rather obvious he didn't expect to be killed, considering all the protective gear.

[songline]

Originally Posted by MayraMM

I wonder why he's being so cooperative. Usually shooters like this kill themselves or commit suicide by cop, yet this guy told about the bombs in the apartment and the package sent to the university. Could it be remorse or a moment of lucidity? Or perhaps it didn't go down as planned. Maybe he expected to commit the shooting and have the building go up at the same time, then walk outside into a barrage of bullets. When it didn't happen that way, it ruined his party. He may have been hoping for a higher body count. Of course, this is all speculation, but I really hope we hear from him at some point what he was thinking.

He wants the lead part in the movie of this horror (just kidding)

[February]

if we are talking about the Universitie's honesty here - decide for yourself

About 11 hours after the attack, Barry Shur, dean of the graduate school at the university, sent an email to faculty, students and staff saying: "If anyone is contacted by the media, PLEASE refer them" to a school spokeswoman. Shur's email was released in response to an open records request from the AP.

Earlier this week, Shur denied trying to prohibit those who knew Holmes from talking.

"We told them they are fully free to interact with the media," he said at a press conference Monday.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...enrecords.html

[jjenny]

His teachers aren't supposed to talk about him because of FERPA.