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  #1  
Old 02-08-2005, 01:25 PM
Timex Timex is offline
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NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #1

hydemi
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to megan & grassyknoll

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear folks,

I had posted two replies concerning the coincidence of the Petrit Vasi hit and run story with the events of Maura Murray's leaving UMass one year ago on Monday Feb 9th.

Megan had first posted a link to the Daily Collegian story dated 2/9/04 which described Vasi as having been found unconscious at 12.20am the morning of 2/6/04, that is shortly after midnight Thursday Feb 5th.

It turns out there are two more DC stories on Vasi in their archive, both saying the hit and run was unsolved, and the second one in October saying he is ok and recovering from his head injuries but cannot remember what happened after he had been out for the evening drinking with friends.

The coincidence is timing.

The posts on mm.com by Faith on 12/10/04 and on 1/12/05 say that Maura had talked to her sister that evening after 10pm presumably while she was at her campus security job--whether by cellphone or otherwise is unclear.

The newspapers had said that Maura was upset by a phone call that evening and had to be escorted home from her job around 1am by her supervisor.

According to Faith's posts the family & friends of Maura have been unable to verify this and unable to speak to the supervisor.

I merely asked whether it is known if Maura had used her car that evening, around midnight, and whether she used her car to get back and forth to her campus security job.

Obviously if she was on foot or being escorted at home at the same time as Vasi was being struck by a car, she could not have been involved.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2005, 02:14 PM
Peabody Peabody is offline
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Lightbulb Reply to Timex

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Originally Posted by Timex
hydemi
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to megan & grassyknoll

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Dear folks,

I merely asked whether it is known if Maura had used her car that evening, around midnight, and whether she used her car to get back and forth to her campus security job.

Obviously if she was on foot or being escorted at home at the same time as Vasi was being struck by a car, she could not have been involved.
It is my opinion that anything is possible.

HOWEVER, I know that the Murray family are especially pleased with the effort of the UMass Police regarding their investigation of Maura's missing. THEREFORE, I am assuming that they did a thorough investigation to determine if there was a connection between Maura and Vasi with the outcome being THERE WAS NOT a connection or it would have been announced.

What is known, but adds to the mystery of Maura being in her car in NH is that the Saturn was having serious mechanical problems.

She had been sharing rides with a fellow nursing student to clinicals. Both of her jobs were with in walking distance from her dorm. Another close UMass friend has stated that she was shocked that Maura was so far from campus in her car because she would not even drive it to the grocery for fear of becoming stranded - which is what happened only a short time before the semester began.....at that time, she had called AAA and per her Dad's suggestion had AAA car tow the car to UMass to remain until they could trade it in.

Last year during that time, there was a great deal of snow, ice and cold temperatures.....It would only be reasonable that she would not want to be stranded. What is not clear is what motivated her to get in a car she feared to drive locally and drive a distance taking 3 + hours ??
  #3  
Old 02-08-2005, 03:54 PM
CyberLaw CyberLaw is offline
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It had been reported by her campus friends that she had not driven or started her car in three weeks.

She received the call at her campus security desk, not on a cell or otherwise.

The campus is a "pedestiran" oriented campus. There has been several "people hit with cars" and the school installed safety "bumps" to reduce these numbers.

She was driving her Father's car on the night of the "suspected drinking and driving "accident"" at 3:30 a.m. on Sunday February 8, 2004.

She was at a party in another dorm room, and did not have to "drive" home or "drive at all to return home from the party."

Drinking and driving is a danger not only to the driver but to every other person driving or walking.

Very, irresponsible, poor judgement and very dangerous. Lots of innocent people die that way........

She went to a party and was drinking, left around 2:30 -3:00 a.m. She "suddenly decided to go wake up "Dad" in the middle of the night.

Again people who have been drinking have poor judgement.

Her friends told her just to go back to her room. One friend was passed out.

She got behind the wheel of her Father's new car, crashed into a "road post, guardrail(at the side of the road, not much if any traffic at this time)and caused 10K in damage.

Her Dad found out about this that morning. Was she "honest about the circumstances" about this accident.?

I guess Dad would wonder why she was travelling to see him at 3:30 a.m. after a party if she had been honest.

Or even if she did not tell him about the party, why she would not just call him at 3:30 a.m. and decide to drive over and see him.

Why would she feel that she needed to go to his hotel room and wake him up.

Now do you think that her Dad was still willing to "help" her buy a new car after that and do you really think that she wanted to report the "accident" and fill out the insurance forms considering the circumstances of the accident.

Guess what......if it was my child, the answer to a)would be, I am not even going to consider buying you a new car after you decided to drink and drive and caused, 10K in damage. Your driving priviledges are suspended and you are darn lucky that a)you are not dead and b)someone else is not dead.

If you got arrested, while at least you are still alive.

I am extremely disappointed and thank god that you are still alive. I though I raised you in a better manner then to decide to break the law.

I hope that the Insurance company "may" honor the claim. If there is evidence(by interviewing other students)that alcohol was a factor in the accident, the claim will be denied and Fred Murray is out 10K for his own car and the money he "may" have spent on Maura's new car, had he bought her one.

The insurance company would have investigated as soon as she filed the insurance form.

The insurance company will see glaring "RED FLAGS" in regards to the first accident. Especially considering her age.

Then the day after this accident on the evening of February 9, 2004, she has another accident in her own car where "alcohol" was a factor and "crashed".

She was drinking while she was driving, picked up booze "along" the way, with no food, and 4 bottles of booze.

She took her knapsack and the booze and took off for place(s) "unknown".

Am I the only person who a)has a problem with people who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking and b)people who drink "while" they drive.

This is not the behaviour of a responsible person, nor someone who is showing good judgement considering all of her past "achievements".

Then low and behold she further exhibits "irresponsible behaviour" by taking off.

BTW if she is not in the New England Area or watching particular TV shows, she might not be even aware of the "search" for her.

Also there is a six prong test at the Federal Supreme Court Level which supports the New Hampshire denial of Fred Murray's request for the release of info under the FOIA.

Unfortunately, he can send 1 million letters to the Governor, but he still won't get what he wants.

Federal Precedent especially by the Supreme Court will prevail. The Supreme Court is the top court of the USA.

The two main points that at least I can see "any information gathered of an investigative nature by Law Enforcment Agency." Also, the right to privacy.

Therefore two out of the six prong(tier) test will not make the threshold.

That is the basis for denial. Unfortunately, which I am sure is very frustrating for Fred Murray, he won't get this information.

The FBI has "investigated" the circumstances of Maura leaving school.

If there is no "factual and direct" evidence of foul play, they have already done their "investigation" and closed the case as no foul play was evident. She left voluntarly.

The New Hampshire Police have concluded same and their role has now ended. She had left voluntarly.

BTW the owners of the Condo said that the Condo would be fully booked months in advance for the ski season.

So why is there such a fuss that the police, (if they had legal access, a search warrant and probable cause) to obtain her last phone call, would even follow up on this.

She made a call subsequent to this anyways to a Vermont Tourist Line.

The Condo call would have no probative value.

Also she took out most of her money in her bank account. If I wanted to 'runaway" I would clean out my bank account and take out most of the money too.

If she had pawned her Jewellry, every pawn shop is required by law to obtain I.D. and report the list of items along with names and I.D. to the Police within 24 hours. Maura could have been traced this way.......and the "family" would be only 24 hours behind her.

Has her SSN been flagged and a letter sent to the SSN
Department, to determine if there has been any activity on the card.????.

Probably not, because Fred Murray is convinced that she is dead. If it is proven that there is activity on the SSN card, then there would be proof that she is alive and well and working. That is not the scene Fred Murray is putting forth.

Can she use another person's card, or are there pictures on the SSN cards.

The Patriot Act has to do with terrorist activity, or suspected activity so it is of no relevance.


The police had to determine that she made the call after an investigation.

Then the sister fessed up that the call was about a fight with her BF. Oh, why did she not volunteer this info in the first place.

The Police subsequently said that her supervisor noticed how upset she was and "offered" to let her off for the night. Maura did not ask.

After all there first impression when she went missing is that she was suicidal - you just don't assume when someone goes missing that they are suicidal unless you have "reasonable" thought for doing so.

Only if a person has exhibited through action or words "suicidal" thought or action would you come to this conclusion.

Oh yes and then the family denies this and calls the police a liar.

Also according to BF Mom, he did not enter her room to see if it was packed up till February 13, which is the Friday after Maura went missing. He said that he found no note. The Police said that they did.

So we are lead to believe that Maura's room was not searched for the 10, 11, 12, and then finally on the 13th.


Dan O'Brian - The Daily Collegian - January 26, 2005

Her son arrived at Maura's dorm room with police just two days after she went missing. He said there was no recent letters to him from Maura that were found.

In another statement he said that he was there with campus police, but not the police department and then it was February 13, 2004, not the 11th.

You see the Police have never, to my knowledge contradicted themselves.

The family has several times, so it makes one wonder.........

Last edited by CW; 07-05-2005 at 03:57 PM.
  #4  
Old 02-09-2005, 12:06 AM
Peabody Peabody is offline
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Exclamation NH State Police Contradict Themselves

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberLaw

You see the Police have never, to my knowledge contradicted themselves.

The family has several times, so it makes one wonder.........
Much gets misquoted and contradicted by the media.........I doubt that the media do it intentionally.

Maura's case is complicated and unless one follows it closely it can be confusing.

However, I do not find substantial contradictions by the Murray family.

I have found some discrepancies in news articles. There have been some statements that conflict about the number of days *after* Maura went missing that a certain happening occured.....but the family had been days without sleep, and were certainly under physical, mental and emotion stress. There are NO conflicts of any importance. Certainly, nothing that changes back and forth: also remember the media do all they can to sensationalize the news.

As to the Police never contradicting themselves, Lt. John Scarinza stated three times on The Chronicle, a television show out of Boston that Maura had left a letter to her boyfriend and implied it was a sucide note. His statement was printed in the Sept 9, 2004 issue of The Daily Collegian. This was a statement that Lt. Scarinza made repeatedly, yet the boyfriend and Fred Murray deny the existance of any such letter:

From The Daily Collegian http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/...0?in_archive=1
' Scarinza told WCVB-TV, "[She] left a personal note to her boyfriend on top of the boxes." '




Lt. John Scarinza authored a press release on June 8th, 2004. The entire press release is online at a Vermont State Police website regarding Brianna Maitland. Please note not only his contradiction, but also the difference in the actions of the Vermont State Police in Brianna's case and the actions of the New Hampshire State in Maura's case.

From The June 8th Scarinza Press Release
http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/pres...4_maitland.htm

"putting everything neatly in boxes and putting all the boxes on her bed along with a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend."


A note *to* her boyfriend and a note *from* her boyfriend are certainly two different things. At this same press conference, 4 months after Maura went missing, Lt. Scarinza said for the FIRST time:

"Investigators are also aware of some additional stresses that were occurring in Maura’s life at the time of these events to include a difficult long distance relationship with her boyfriend in Oklahoma."


"a difficult" relationship between Maura and the boyfriend then became the new spin for Lt. Scarinza. This particular issue combined with the constant remarks about notes and implied suicide led Sharon Rausch to call the NH SP "liars" ......see the Caledonian archives in July.

I remain always an Advocate for Maura Murray.

Last edited by Peabody; 02-09-2005 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Spelling and Correction of website
  #5  
Old 02-09-2005, 02:24 PM
galfriday galfriday is offline
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"The following is from a post by Faith on MauraMurray.com: "However, it has been confirmed that the time the police reported that Maura had an upsetting phone call - around 1 am that they reported as "Thursday night", which would have actually been Friday morning - was not the time that Maura spoke to her sister: Maura's phone records show that she spoke to her sister from about 10 PM to 10:20 Thursday night......there is no record of a 1 AM call on Maura's cell phone."

So, Maura spoke with her sister on her cell phone from 10-10:20pm; she most definately could have been at her job when she took that call and still been there at 1am when she was said to have been escorted back to her dorm after an upsetting phone call.

Since there was no call on the cell phone, I wonder if there was a phone at her job where she could have received an incoming call from someone she knew or even a stranger. Was someone on campus giving her a hard time or even stalking her? You have to wonder because what could scare a girl who refused to drive her car locally enough to embark on a 3 hour trip? Any thoughts?
  #6  
Old 02-09-2005, 07:54 PM
CyberLaw CyberLaw is offline
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When Fred Murray says one thing to one paper and then another thing to another paper that is completly different, that is not misquoting, that is misinformation.

It is also just his side of the story, not Maura's or how she felt about the BF and family.

Remember there are always two sides to every story. If you listen to only one side, you are only getting half the story as that person sees it.

Especially if the person telling the story is leaving out information for their own reasons. The other person cannot refute this information because they are "missing".

You see the "story" the family has put forward and the actions that Maura did, tends to lead one to believe that the relationship they felt they had with her is not quite the truth, in reality. Maybe the way they see it. Not the actual way that Maura did.

From the beginning with the inital "distressing phone" call and the sister not volunteering this info. The sister's account of the call and the fact that Maura was distraught and the sister with held this phone call from investigators was "disconcerning".

Was it more than a "nothing" call that reduce Maura to the point of "having to helped back to her dorm room".? Again the story as told by the sister does not jive with the facts.

From this point, I had my doubt about the family spin on things and what information they were witholding from the Police.

Also the family has heavily played on the "story" that she had a "great relationship" with BF. I find that odd. Very odd. That was from the start.

That she was close to her BF, but when she talked to him she indicated nothing was wrong. This was while she was planning on leaving and packing, that does not indicate a good relationship to someone who stated in the press "Maura and I were engaged to be engaged".

But she feels she can't tell BF that she has packed up her room, e-mailed her professors and is leaving school and is unhappy and "stressed".

Actions do speak louder than words. When the actions do not follow the words, that is contradictory.

There is nothing complicated or confusing about this case what you see is what you get.

Voluntarly missing adult person, who with premedition and forethought left school for places unknown. I don't find that complicated or confusing. Not at all.

Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

The theory of this Press Release is that:

Investigators believe that Maura was headed for an unknown destination and may have accepted a ride in order to continue to that location.

Therefore in this synopsis, the suicide theory was not put forth. That certainly does not mean there was no letter found by the Police, just that the letter does not fit this particilar "press release" synopsis.

Notice that the Press Release did not mention booze, that she stopped to buy 4 bottles, that both accidents involve drinking and one involved drinking and driving, that someone saw her sometime after the accident, the distressing phone call. Being reduced to tears by a "nothing call from her sister", sister with holding information regarding the origin of this "original" mysterious phone call that investigators had to determine came from her. That Maura kept secrets, was not really close to anyone in school. Those points are not relevant to the synopsis.

.Investigators are also aware of some additional stresses that were occurring in Maura’s life at the time of these events to include a difficult long distance relationship with her boyfriend in Oklahoma.

That would support the synopsis of "additional stresses", along with the car accidents, which one is mentioned causing 10K in damage to a new car. The point being made is that she had two accidents in three days. Wow that is stressful.......along with the long distance relationship.

So the "main points" of this argument was a): Sunday she had the first accident causing 10K in damage to a new car. b) Monday she packed "neatly" her personal things along with a "note "recently received from BF. Then she looked up "overnight " accomodations in the locations of New Hampshire and Vermont. Then she took out most of her money and e-mailed her professors that she would be absent from work and school due to a "death in the family" which is pointed out in the Press Release as a lie.

If the synopsis, main point was suicide they would include info with those point made. Obviously LE did not put forth that argument.

You can only make one point in a synopsis, not several.

So it is the format of a press release, synopsis, not all of the information, just the information that supports the main point of a theory. So it is not a contradiction.

IF you can't see the difference in the circumstances between Brianna and Maura and the release of info and the "synopsis" of each in the Press Release, I strongly suggest you get out a piece of paper and start with the following: The point of the press release is to point out the difference and also that they are not related and that no serial killer is on the loose.

Incident/Violation: Brianna Maitland
Missing Person Investigation
CASE #: 04A201455

You see Brianna did not plan on leaving voluntarly, and the people she associated with are involved with illegal activity, drugs and guns.

You wonder why the two cases are handled differently with different resources used. One is that probable cause is needed for a search warrant and the Police have that plus other court orders in the Brianna Maitland case and the other one is a missing adult who planned on leaving and made arrangements to do so.

I do hope the glaring difference is very evident to anyone who read the Press Release, to me it jumps out.

You see Maura is smart and self reliant so that is another reason why I feel she has the smarts to stay missing by choice if she wants to.

Another point in releasing this press release is to inform the public of the work done on both cases and dispel the "myth" that they are related in any way, shape or form .

I remember Fred Murray "hysteria" that the two girls were victims of the same killer. No wonder they had to release this information, he successful panicked the public with no basis in fact for doing so except that he wanted "more resources" available to look for a voluntarly missing person equal to the resources made available in the Brianna case.

Foul play is strongly suspected in the case of Brianna and not Maura. Facts support the case of foul play in the Brianna case, but not Maura. Except in the mind of Fred Murray.

Fred Murray should take a cue from the mother of Erika Baker. Even though Erika was a young child, disappeared suddenly, she never gave up hope against all odds that her daughter would walk in the door.

She has only recently started to mourn the loss of her daughter and accepted that she is not going to ever come home.



  #7  
Old 02-09-2005, 09:47 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galfriday
"The following is from a post by Faith on MauraMurray.com: "However, it has been confirmed that the time the police reported that Maura had an upsetting phone call - around 1 am that they reported as "Thursday night", which would have actually been Friday morning - was not the time that Maura spoke to her sister: Maura's phone records show that she spoke to her sister from about 10 PM to 10:20 Thursday night......there is no record of a 1 AM call on Maura's cell phone."

So, Maura spoke with her sister on her cell phone from 10-10:20pm; she most definately could have been at her job when she took that call and still been there at 1am when she was said to have been escorted back to her dorm after an upsetting phone call.

Since there was no call on the cell phone, I wonder if there was a phone at her job where she could have received an incoming call from someone she knew or even a stranger. Was someone on campus giving her a hard time or even stalking her? You have to wonder because what could scare a girl who refused to drive her car locally enough to embark on a 3 hour trip? Any thoughts?
I've wondered that myself for a long time...even before I read that there was at least 2 1/2 hours between the recorded phone call and the reported time Maura was crying. I wonder how long her security shift was that night? It would appear that something upset her, but a phone call over 2 1/2 hours earlier...no way. I can't imagine that there would not have been a security phone, and hope that the police checked those phone records. I don't know exactly what her function was in that position, but campus security is often involved in breaking up parties and fights. Often the reports that security make can make a difference in whether and how a student is disciplined.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2005, 11:13 PM
hydemi hydemi is offline
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more on the Thursday night phone call puzzle

Dear Grassy et al,

The drivability of Maura's car, the 96 black Saturn running on three cylinders or whatever, seems to me very much an issue both going into this weekend a year ago and what happened on 2/9/04.

Taking it backwards in the chronology--

1) she drove this supposedly undrivable car for over three hours and approx 150 miles up Rte 91 to exit 17 (presumably) near Wells River and over to 112 headed toward N. Woodstock and the White Mtns.

2) Sunday night when she was Mapquesting on her computer to Burlington Vt and Bartlett NH, she had to have known that the car was drivable--else how did she plan to travel the three to four hours to those locations?

3) Evidently she was drinking and driving not only in the car on Monday 2/9 but even more so on the Saturday night of 2/7/04 when she ran off the road going from her friend's dorm around 3am to visit her Dad at his hotel, crashing her Dad's new 2004 Toyota and incurring 10K est. damage.

She and her Dad had looked for a new car for her that Sat. afternoon, and whether they checked out the black Saturn for drivability is unknown.

Why would she engage in such heavy duty drinking and driving (of her Dad's new car) that Saturday night, knowing that her Dad was ready to help her replace the old car?

It is hard to imagine that her Dad was thrilled on learning of the crackup of his car the next morning. Was he still as willing to replace the old car?

4) on the night of 2/5/04 Maura knew going into the weekend that her Dad was coming to help her look for a new car. According to posts above her 96 Saturn had been towed by AAA back to the UMass lot more than two weeks earlier, and she had not even been willing to drive it to the local stores.

She was taking rides to clinicals (to the hospital, I guess) and able to walk to her two jobs from her dorm.

But it is likely that she might have gone at some point to check out the old car before her Dad's visit that weekend.

5) The rest is speculaton with only a few facts. Her phone records of 2/5/04 show she talked to her sister after 10pm, on her cellphone. From the accounts this was probably not the source of her being so upset later on that evening. It is reported in the news stories after her disappearance that she had an upsetting phone call as late as 1am-- according to co workers and perhaps the supervisor who is supposed to have walked her back to her dorm.

But one story only says that the supervisor urged her to take the night off, because she was so visibly upset, and offered to escort her to her dorm.

Escorting students late at night especially young women is common practice on college campuses for campus security, but we do not know (see the posts by Faith on mm.com of 12/9/04 and 1/12/05) whether this occurred.

Petrit Vasi was found unconscious at 12.20 am on Friday morning now 2/6/04, at the corner of Triangle and Mattoon streets (proximity?) by Amherst police. The story of his critical head injuries appeared in the student newspaper on 2/9/04, the day Maura left.

6) I cannot speculate whether Maura drove her car that night and was involved in the Vasi accident. But the timing is very coincidental. As stated above this has undoubtedly been considered and investigated by campus police & Amherst police.

But how could they investigate Maura (she was gone) and examine her car (wrecked in New Hampshire)?

At most they might have asked some questions of co-workers et al.

If she drove her car that night around midnight to check it out before her Father's upcoming visit, depending on the time of her shift at campus security, and if she somehow learned around 1am of the hit and run victim being ambulanced away to a hospital with serious injuries, it has to be considered that this was the upsetting event & phone call.

I truly hope that it was not the case, and that she was not drinking/driving as she was over the next few days.

But somehow her old car was drivable on Monday 2/9/04 and she knew as she planned her leaving from UMass that it was drivable. She had to have driven it and checked it out between the time AAA towed it and Monday 2/9.

Could that Thursday night of 2/5/04 have been the night she did so, the same
night that Vasi was struck, which is possible given the specific times above from midnight (Vasi struck) to 12.20am (Vasi found) to 1am (Maura upset)?
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:07 PM
galfriday galfriday is offline
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Hydemi,

You have worked hard to construct a good timeline on this hit and run in relation to Maura's case. I agree that, due to the 10PM to 1AM time lapse, it doesn't seem that the sister's call was the reason for Maura being upset.

It is very coincidental that the hit and run was on the same night Maura left work upset, however, the timeline seems pretty tight for her to have been involved. I guess the key to that answer would be her work schedule - what time she arrived at work. Does anyone know that answer? I can't seem to locate any information that indicates her actual time in-time out of work that evening.

Maura's car was not totally destroyed, so, if they felt it necessary, the Amherst Police would have been able to view Maura's car as part of their investigation either by going to NH or having NH investigate the car on Amherst's behalf.

One thing I just don't think we can speculate on is the fact that she was drinking on 2/9/04. Purchasing alcohol and driving with it in the car just isn't evidence of consumption.
  #10  
Old 02-10-2005, 12:52 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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Feb. 5 Thursday

10:00 PM phone call to sister
10:20 PM phone call to sister ends
(this is reportedly the last call on Maura's cell that night)
Feb 7 Friday
12:20 AM student hit or thrown out of a car - still undetermined
1:00 AM Maura Murray crying and walked back to dorm

The suggestion above is that prior to 12:20 AM, Friday, Feb.6th Maura left her security job walked to wherever her car was on camus (which could have been quite a distance depending on where she was working) hit somebody off campus (although the streets above are not the ones mentioned in other articles...I believe one was Maple, they are off campus), returned to campus, parked her car and started crying........all within approximately 40 minutes.

First, according to reports in the Daily Collegian in October, it has never been proven that this student was even hit by a car. Initial reports indicated that the police thought he was hit by a car or beaten. Eight months later the police had yet to determine whether he had been hit or pushed out of a car. I can't remember ever reading another article where police say someone may have been pushed from a moving vehicle. Since this appears to have taken place off campus, it would seem that both the Amherst PD and Campus Police would have been involved in the investigation, and it would seem plausible that the Campus police would have made a tour of the campus looking for damage to vehicles consistant with a hit and run. Given the circumstances, if members of this community have all these suspicions, wouldn't the Amherst PD have come to the same conclusion within a year and requested that Maura's car be examined????????? Even a second accident would probably not have eliminated all evidence of a hit and run. People here have implied that the accident in NH was staged to 'cover up' the alleged hit and run. I don't know about you, but I surely would have chosen a less remote area to total my car if I were trying to cover something up.

Second, wouldn't Maura's absence for a lengthy period of time from the security job been noticed and reported to someone by now. The way I read the post above the family had not been able to verify the story about Maura crying and being escorted back to her dorm. It does not say that it didn't happen.

The student who was injured states that he was drinking on Thursday night. He reports that his wallet was empty when he was found. It isn't clear whether he means it was empty of money or money and identification. His statement that he never carried much money anyway would seem to imply that he thought he had some and it was gone. He states that he believes his injuries were consistant with being hit, and yet the police do not appear to have come to any conclusion about that. I can't help but think that since this student was very seriously injured that a thorough investigation wasn't done. If there were any way Maura might have been implicated it would have supported NH LE's contention that she ran away or committed suicide...I'm sure they looked at this incident closely, and remember Amherst is the one place where the FBI was involved in looking at Maura's case.

It seems a real stretch to try to implicate Maura Murray in this incident, and I never understood why someone who claims to have known the family would repeatedly bring it up on Websleuths. It just doesn't seem possible that with Campus police, Amherst Police, Haverhill Police, New Hampshire State Police and the FBI (they only talked to people in MA) all talking to people on campus that one of these agencies wouldn't have looked at this.
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2005, 05:00 PM
CyberLaw CyberLaw is offline
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I was under the impression that she called not from her cell, but from the campus security phone and was "extremely distraught" right after the conclusion of the 1:00 a.m. phone call.

Where could Maura be?
By Brian McGrory, Globe Columnist,
3/2/2004

Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual
telephone call that Murray received a few nights before
she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The
conversation upset her so much that she had to be
escorted from her job to her dorm room

The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert
Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But
Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of
what was so upsetting.


Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

UMASS Police determined the call was from/to sister.

Remember the Police had no legal access to Maura's cell phone records to determine this.

BF Mom's would not have the record or bill yet, they are at least a month behind and the Police could not obtain cell phone records from the company as it would need a search warrant and a Judges Order which both require probable cause.

Probable cause as to a crime committed.

I do recall that UMASS was tracing the origins of the call.

The Sister did not indicate in the early days, that this call was/to from her and then low and behold when faced with this evidence it then became a "nothing call" that was of no consequence.

She did not volunteer this information, or even indicate to the Police in the early days, that she had even talked to Maura on 2/5.

You would think that she would have said: I spoke to her around 10:00, she was calling from her cell and she seemed fine. Nothing. Nada. Kept quiet.

The UMASS Police could determine the origins of any call that night through their own UMASS records.

The only way UMASS police can obtain information as to when this call happened is if it went through/from the phone at the security desk.

The "nothing" phone converation at 1:00 a.m. is the phone call that brought her to tears and left her " distraught."

The Daily Colllegian - September 9, 2004

It was just a regular phone call. It made no difference to me. It was just Maura calling me, that was that. I told her about my day and quarreling with my fianc饬" Murray said. "I don't know what I could have done to upset her...
Seriously, I think she just wanted to get out of work."
New Hampshire State Police Lt. John Scarinza is one of the lead investigators on the Murray case. He disputes Kathleen Murray's statement about her sister trying to leave work early.

"It wasn't a case where she called the supervisor and said, 'Listen, I've had a bad phone call...' The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off? I'll walk you to your dorm.' So clearly she was upset," Scarinza told WCVB-TV.

http://www.housing.umass.edu/living/safe_build.html

That link will give you all of the information. I don't know if Maura was part of the Residence Security or answering the phone number for security for non-emergencies. All instances of anything would be recorded in log books.

But I can tell you this, students are not expected to act as "bouncers" or "break up parties or fights".

Especially a female student. The University Police would do that, so it was strictly a non-emergency role or student residence role.

Maura was in the Southwest(North) Residence Hall - Kennedy Hall.

Last edited by CyberLaw; 02-10-2005 at 08:37 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-10-2005, 07:30 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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But I can tell you this, students are not expected to act as "bouncers" or "break up parties or fights".

Especially a female student. The University Police would do that, so it was strictly a non-emergency role or student residence role.

I beg to differ, I personally know of one young woman who was hit attempting to get a student who had gotten drunk and rowdy to go back to his room. She was an RA in the building. I stated that I didn't know what Maura's function was, but any of the security employees of the University would be in a position where they might have to deal with students who were not abiding by the rules.

It doesn't matter whether the Haverhill Police had legal access to Maura's cell phone records, they received a copy of it as soon as Bill Rausch received it.

As to the security phone or Maura's room phone...there has been nothing published which would indicate whether or not they were checked by the police. And, I believe it was the state police who discussed the phone call...not the campus police.


We must be reading very different articles or you have sources of information that I don't. I've read articles from the obvious media to the obscure media, including a weekly called the North Country News and do not recall reading anything that stated that anybody checked anything having to do with a security phone. To repeat...the call to her sister was on her cell phone it lasted from 10:00 to 10:20...there were no other calls on her cell phone that night. And your question: Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m. ...echos my question.

Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

We agree on one thing anyway..........

Just went to the site you recommended at UMASS...

Residence and Assistant Residence Directors

Professional Residence Directors (RDs) and graduate student Assistant Residence Directors (ARDs) are responsible for the management, programming, and discipline of specific residence halls or small hall clusters and are available to help resolve academic or social concerns and provide referrals to other campus agencies as needed.

Area Directors

Area Directors (ADs) oversee RDs as well as the overall operation of an entire residential area, coordinating educational, social, and cultural programs, the judicial process, and collaborating with area student governments.


Alcoholic Beverages Regulations

The following regulations have been adopted by the Department of Housing Services. (See also the University Alcoholic Beverages Policy in the Undergraduate Rights & Responsibilities.)

Any member of the University of Massachusetts Amherst community may charge a student with alleged violation of this policy under the disciplinary provisions of the Code of Student Conduct.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2005, 11:53 PM
gatetrekker44 gatetrekker44 is offline
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Angry Speculation,speculation!!

CyberLaw seems to be an absolute whiz at it! This forum has gone from trying to come up with possible scenarios related to Maura's disappearance to insinuating that she may have been involved in a "hit and run" that has NEVER been proven to be a hit and run at all(been drinking, money gone from wallet, injuries consistent with a beating, HMMMM). Unless CyberLaw has firsthand knowledge that conclusively proves that this was a hit and run committed by Maura, can we PLEASE get back to trying to ascertain what happened the night of her disappearance since we know that LE is SSOOOO sure that she has "voluntarily" gone missing(was that their crystal ball reader or their tea leaves telling them that!) it seems that beside her family the majority of us posting here are the only ones who see a much darker scenario that unfolded on that road...
  #14  
Old 02-11-2005, 12:09 AM
CyberLaw CyberLaw is offline
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R

Grassyknoll:

You might have missed this, but the positions that you mention are all graduate student position with details as follows:

Please note:

Residence Director:

The Residence Director (RD) is a 43 week or 52 week live-in professional responsible for the overall administration of a cluster comprising one or more halls housing 275-675 students. The Residence Director supervises graduate and undergraduate students to create a safe, caring and inclusive community through strong supervision, student development, leadership development, administration and departmental responsibilities. These responsibilities are negotiated within the senior staff team comprising of the RD and the Assistant Residence Director (ARD). The Residence Director is supervised by an Area Director.
Qualifications

Master's degree in a related field such as Student Development, Higher Education or Counseling, plus one year post-baccalaureate experience required as a live-in staff member to include crisis intervention and work with diverse student populations (degree must be completed by date of hire); demonstrated experience and initiative with student and community development; supervision and staff training; advising student groups; creation and implementation of management systems.
Assistant Residence Director:
Assistant Residence Directors (ARDs) are live-in graduate student staff members working in the Department of Housing Services: Residence Life. The ARD serves as an active and visible residence hall staff member and participates in student development, community development, leadership development, activity development, administration, policy enforcement, crisis management, and staff development. All ARDs are expected to participate in comprehensive pre-service orientation programs, as well as in ongoing in-service training
Both these position report to the Area Director.
So the information that you listed in the above noted
positions is irrelevant as Maura was a Junior.
Please note the following:
Police officers from the Division of Public Safety patrol the campus 24 hours a day. Residence halls are locked at all times.
During the evening hours, security receptionists staff the main door of each residence hall to regulate access into the buildings, check the identification of residents and guests, and conduct guest registration. Other residence hall security staff patrol the residential areas looking for safety hazards such as doors propped open and lighting problems.
Maura was a full time Junior in the nursing program, and she had a part time job on Campus. A student who is not a graduate student, who is not employed full time by the University, does not directly deal with problem student.
That is left to full time qualified graduate staff with the correct qualification and experience.
You see students are equal and have no authority over one another when it comes to policy enforecement. They would need the guidence of paid graduate and staff members.
Please note:

To provide for the responsible use of alcoholic beverages by students, staff, and guests of the residence hall community, the Director of Housing Services or her/his designee is authorized to establish rules, regulations, and procedures governing residence halls alcohol use.

Informs all students and staff of appropriate alcohol-related rules and regulations

Provides for disciplinary procedures that ensure that policy violators are prosecuted.
Makes provisions for the responsible consumption of alcohol.
Also:
The adjudication of policy violations includes, but is not limited to, mediation, informal or formal hearing procedures, and initiation of civil and criminal proceedings.

These policy violations are ajudicated by a person in authority. Not students.

Please note also:

From the Boston Globe - 3/2/2004

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...ould_maura_be/

Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual telephone call that Murray received a few nights before she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The conversation upset her so much that she had to be escorted from her job to her dorm room.

The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of what was so upsetting.

The Boston Globe is a major newspaper not a country family owned newspaper .But the North Country News, is a very cute country newspaper that is published bi-weekly according to its website.

It is a cute country newspaper, really it is. It is a small town newspaper. The Boston Globe is published daily in Boston and is owned by the New York Times Company.







  #15  
Old 02-11-2005, 09:25 AM
pugsley pugsley is offline
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can someone clarify please?

Regarding the police finding the origin of the phone call, are they refering to the 10 pm or 1 am phone call. From reading above it sounds like they are speaking of the 10 pm call. The sister speaks as if the last time she talked to her was 10 pm.

Thanks
  #16  
Old 02-11-2005, 12:05 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsley
Regarding the police finding the origin of the phone call, are they refering to the 10 pm or 1 am phone call. From reading above it sounds like they are speaking of the 10 pm call. The sister speaks as if the last time she talked to her was 10 pm.

Thanks
From what I have seen in print, there was only one phone call mentioned. It was at 10:00 p.m. Thursday, and lasted until 10:20 p.m. It was on Maura's cell phone (unclear whether she made the call or received the call). At that time Maura spoke to her sister. Although she was crying at 1:00 a.m on Friday, I have not found any mention of a phone call at that time. A person who writes on Maura's site (who seems to be a friend of the family) has indicated that that is the only call the family knows about and that person also appears to question the time difference between the call and the crying.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2005, 02:47 PM
pugsley pugsley is offline
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Thanks Grassyknoll,

There seems to be more questions than answers. I'm starting to wonder if there was even an actual phone call. Perhaps someone found Maura upset and she stated she got an upsetting phone call. Could the 1am "phone call" have been to back up or pre- empt the claim of a relative passing away.


I will probably get shredded for saying that, but that's my take on it.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2005, 03:44 PM
CyberLaw CyberLaw is offline
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For quite sometime she knew that UMASS and Police were attempting to discover the origins of the "distressing call."

She did not even offer this little tid bit of information when Maura went missing: Yes, I talked to Maura at 10:00 p.m. and she seemed fine to me, it was just a "nothing" converstion.

They had to "confront" her with the information that they had gathered.

She knew they were investigating a call that night which lead to Maura being extremely "distraught", but again she said nothing. Not even any mention of a call at all..

UMASS and Investigators had to find out it was her and then further investigate the details of the "conversation".

From the Patriot Ledger: 03/03/2004

Police investigating the disappearance of Hanson native Maura Murray have discovered that the disturbing phone conversation Murray had four days before leaving the University of Massachusetts at Amherst was with her sister.
According to her family, Murray called her sister, Kathleen Murray of Hanover, at about 10 p.m. Feb. 5, four days before she packed her belongings and headed north to New Hampshire.

But what was said should not have upset the 21-year-old, Kathleen Murray said.

‘‘We didn't really talk about much. I had been fighting with my fiancé, and we talked about that, but I don't know why she would be upset about that,'' Kathleen said.

Kathleen Murray said she talked to her sister regularly to chat. Like all of their phone conversations, the one on Feb. 5 was about ‘‘regular stuff, ‘just-trying-to-get-through-the-day' kinds of things,'' she said.

‘‘When I heard she was crying after that, I couldn't understand why, especially because it's not like her to cry,'' she said.

I don't know where Grassyknoll came up with the 1:00 a.m. situation.

From all reports it was the 10:00 p.m. call that Maura became distraught over.

She could have easily called Campus Police to "escort" Maura, but the Supervisor was concerned and "worried" for her "emotional well being."

Again, you don't get a phone call at 10:00 p.m. and then wait over three hours to become "extremely distraught." It happens at the time of the call, so I have to question the 1:00 a.m. timeline.

At this time, Maura made no mention of " a family members" death. She had not planned on leaving yet.

Only when she had to cover her absence/leaving from school did she come up with a "cover story".

I am sure that Kathleen does not want to feel that she had anything to do with Maura missing, therefore it was just a "nothing call" and it must be someone or something else that was to blame. But why did she initially with hold this information.

Only Kathleen knows the truth and she is sticking to her story. The only other person who knows the truth is Maura.

Maura went to a party Saturday night, it would be difficult to "explain" this behaviour if you had previously said a family member had died.

You would not wait three day to leave, especially over the weekend, and having dinner with your Dad.

So the phone call was not a "cover" story, I do feel the sister should "fess" up to what they really talked about and what she said to Maura that was the source of "distress".

Grassyknoll: Please reference your sources as to the information you post.

This newspaper article appeared on February 10, 2005.

http://ledger.southofboston.com/arti...ews/news02.txt

Last edited by CW; 07-05-2005 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Personal attack on a family member..
  #19  
Old 02-12-2005, 09:09 AM
Peabody Peabody is offline
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Arrow Mystery Phone Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsley
Thanks Grassyknoll,

There seems to be more questions than answers. I'm starting to wonder if there was even an actual phone call. Perhaps someone found Maura upset and she stated she got an upsetting phone call. Could the 1am "phone call" have been to back up or pre- empt the claim of a relative passing away.


I will probably get shredded for saying that, but that's my take on it.
I have stated before that I have a connection to the family.

The sister denied that there was any call at 1:00 AM - She still says there was never any such call. From the evidence that has been presented to me, I believe her.

she was extremely distraught over Maura's missing - she told the police over and over "I have never talked to Maura at 1:00 AM." She told the police that she and Maura talked often....just never at 1:00 AM. The police were not interested in any other conversation - The sister was distraught over her sister's missing.

How do you know that the sister did not say that she spoke with her sister on Thursday? I know that she told the police that she spoke to her sisiter regularly and that she had not talked to Maura when she was upset..........I also know that the police were only interested in a 1:00 AM call which to my knowledge has never been proven.

In fact, the cell phone bill confirms that there was no conversation at 1:00 AM on the cell phone.

As to a call on the security phone, Maura would have had to call someone and give them the number for them to call her.........she was prohibited from taking personal calls on the security phone, which puts us back to the mystery of why she was so emotional at 1:00 AM.....


It certainly seems plausible to me that the police ruled a 1:00 AM phone call between Maura and her sister based on some interview at UMass, but did not base the call on phone records, then once they could not confirm a 1:00 AM call they never reported to the public that there was never any such call. After all, they have never released information that the bus driver has been cleared of any suspicision, yet those in the family have been told by the police that he has been cleared..........

There has been much the public should know and it has been withheld and or had the Scarinza spin added to the point of outright deception.

In recent interviews of the one year mark of Maura's missing, the bus driver blames Fred Murray that there is a cloud of suspicion over his head -- his blame is misplaced - the police told the Murray family that they have cleared him - therefore the blame for suspicion lies at their door. Police could easily annouce "Butch Atwood has been cleared of any involvement in the missing of Maura Murray"....just like many other corrections they could have made to give the public a better understanding of the facts, they have not taken action.

Last edited by Peabody; 02-12-2005 at 09:20 AM. Reason: to correct spelling
  #20  
Old 02-12-2005, 10:42 AM
hydemi hydemi is offline
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1am phone call and timeline

Does anyone actually know when MM arrived at her campus security job the evening of Feb 5?

What were her regular hours? midnite to 4am? 10pm-2am?

As to her being upset around 1am while at her campus security job, it seems clear from the posts above that any call was most likely one that she had first initiated or given the security number to someone to call her.

She could have been anywhere during the cellphone call with her sister which it is clear occurred after 10pm. But the 1am call is the on-the-job call.
  #21  
Old 02-12-2005, 01:32 PM
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[quote=gatetrekker44]CyberLaw seems to be an absolute whiz at it! This forum has gone from trying to come up with possible scenarios related to Maura's disappearance to insinuating that she may have been involved in a "hit and run" that has NEVER been proven to be a hit and run at all(been drinking, money gone from wallet, injuries consistent with a beating, HMMMM).Unless CyberLaw has firsthand knowledge that conclusively proves that this was a hit and run committed.

Can you please point out from my posts below where I EVER stated or suggested any evidence supporting the "myth" that Maura was involved in the student hit and run. I see the posts from Timex, and Hydemi, but none from me, so please do share........and please Quote my post.

From the Previous thread I clearly dispelled that "myth" through fact and logic.

Thank you for the compliment, it is the first time someone has called me a "whiz" usually I get " smart", "intelligent" so I guess "whiz" is similar. My "typical" response is "really I am not that smart" it just seems that way.

Can anyone please provide anything that is in print that even mentions that Maura was crying at 1:00 a.m.

Or anything that even alludes to a 1:00 p.m. call or that Maura was upset at 1:00 a.m. I would like to verify this information.

I am not talking about someone, who knows the family writing about it, I am talking about a unbiased informative newspaper article or information published by "LE or Investigators."

For the last year, I have yet to read anything about a 1:00 a.m. call.

Could this person be posting this information to try and "mislead" people that is WAS NOT the 10:00 pm call got Maura upset, but some other mysterious call at 1:00 a.m.

The Daily Colllegian - September 9, 2004

It was just a regular phone call. It made no difference to me. It was just Maura calling me, that was that. I told her about my day and quarreling with my fiance Murray said. "I don't know what I could have done to upset her..".

"Seriously, I think she just wanted to get out of work"

New Hampshire State Police Lt. John Scarinza is one of the lead investigators on the Murray case. He disputes Kathleen Murray's statement about her sister trying to leave work early.

"It wasn't a case where she called the supervisor and said, 'Listen, I've had a bad phone call...' The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off? I'll walk you to your dorm.' So clearly she was upset" Scarinza told WCVB-TV.

From the Patriot Ledger: 03/03/2004

Police investigating the disappearance of Hanson native Maura Murray have discovered that the disturbing phone conversation Murray had four days before leaving the University of Massachusetts at Amherst was with her sister.

According to her family, Murray called her sister, Kathleen Murray of Hanover, at about 10 p.m. Feb. 5, four days before she packed her belongings and headed north to New Hampshire.

But what was said should not have upset the 21-year-old, Kathleen Murray said.

‘‘We didn't really talk about much. I had been fighting with my fiancé, and we talked about that, but I don't know why she would be upset about that,'' Kathleen said.

Kathleen Murray said she talked to her sister regularly to chat. Like all of their phone conversations, the one on Feb. 5 was about ‘‘regular stuff, ‘just-trying-to-get-through-the-day' kinds of things,'' she said.

‘‘When I heard she was crying after that, I couldn't understand why, especially because it's not like her to cry,'' she said.

Source: http://www.google.com/u/umassamherst...+Hall+Security

You see I went to the Web site of UMASS and it states:

Residence Hall Security personnel, staff the lobbies from 8:00 PM to 12:00 AM on weekdays and from 8:00 PM to 3:00 AM on weekends. ...

So can someone please tell me how Maura was at a Residence Hall (Reception) Security desk at 1:00 a.m. to receive this "mysterious phone call."

It would make sense that she started work at 8:00 p.m., called her sister at 10:00 p.m. was upset at 10:20, then The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off?.

So she did leave early at 10:20 taking the rest of the night off instead of completing her shift and leaving at 12:00.

The job pays 7.25 cents an hour.

The only student security positions are Residence Hall Security.

Last edited by CyberLaw; 02-12-2005 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Addition of Information
  #22  
Old 02-12-2005, 02:22 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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Cyberlaw 2/10 - You would think that she would have said: I spoke to her around 10:00, she was calling from her cell and she seemed fine. Nothing. Nada. Kept quiet.

Where you at the police station? Do you know that Kathleen did not tell them she spoke with Maura at 10:00? Without having been there or having first hand reports, this would seem to be an unsupportable speculation. From what I can determine the call was at 10:00 and Maura was upset at 1:00. It would seem to me that if I spoke with someone at 10:00 and police were asking me about a call at 1:00, I would be as confused as I have been with the posts here.



Cyberlaw 2/10 - The "nothing" phone converation at 1:00 a.m. is the phone call that brought her to tears and left her " distraught."

Cyberlaw 2/10 - Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

Cyberlaw 2/11 - I don't know where Grassyknoll came up with the 1:00 a.m. situation.

From all reports it was the 10:00 p.m. call that Maura became distraught over.

Cyberlaw 2/11 - Again, you don't get a phone call at 10:00 p.m. and then wait over three hours to become "extremely distraught." It happens at the time of the call, so I have to question the 1:00 a.m. timeline.

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  #23  
Old 02-12-2005, 02:41 PM
Grassyknoll2 Grassyknoll2 is offline
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Cyberlaw - 2/9 - Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

Please clarify is this Lt. Scarinza's synopsis or your synopsis?

If my memory serves me correctly (and I will look for some articles) Brianna Maitland's family was very upset because they were treating her case as a runaway, and yet if one reads the above-mentioned report on both Brianna and Maura, there is a stark difference in the level of investigation.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2005, 03:33 PM
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please clarify

Cyberlaw,

On your 2-8-2005 post you state:

She received the call at her campus security desk, not on a cell or otherwise.



On your 2-10-2005 post you state:

I was under the impression that she called not from her cell, but from the campus security phone and was "extremely distraught" right after the conclusion of the 1:00 a.m. phone call.

Which is it? On the 8th you state a fact yet on the 10th you are only under the impression. I am eager to find out how you know this information.
  #25  
Old 02-12-2005, 06:04 PM
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LillyRush LillyRush is offline
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Oh I see the debate is still going strong w/ our buddy cyberlaw.

Well, regardless, positive thoughts for Maura and her family during the recent 1 yr anniversary of her disappearance.
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