8-Year-Old Arrested After Alleged Tantrum

tamid · #1 03-04-2005, 02:05 PM

Police arrested an 8-year-old boy who allegedly had a violent outburst in school, head-butting his teacher and kicking an assistant principal, when he was told he couldn't go outside to play with other students.

The 4-foot pupil was led away from Rawls Byrd Elementary School in handcuffs Tuesday and charged with disorderly conduct and assault and battery.

"It's not something that happens every day," Maj. Stan Stout said of what could be the department's youngest arrest ever.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...school_tantrum

golfmom · #2 03-04-2005, 02:07 PM

R-E-S-P-E-C-T find out what it means to me ....

Jeana (DP) · #3 03-04-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmom

R-E-S-P-E-C-T find out what it means to me ....

Absolutely!!!!

Opie · #4 03-04-2005, 03:41 PM

As the relative of a child who has been diagnosed with possible bipolar disorder, possible Asperger's syndrome (high-functioning autism), and ADHD, I see this child in serious need of help. I hope the parents get it for him, if they are not already doing so. The child I mentioned here is now in a charter schoo for children with such problems (they run it a bit like Marine boot camp, which seems to be what such kids need) and absolutely thriving. That is not to say he does not still have outbursts, good days and bad days, but the main theme of the school is that everyone has choices, and responsibilities that accompany those choices. There may be a lot more to this 8 y.o. story than appears on the surface.

mysteriew · #5 03-05-2005, 05:03 AM

But wait, whatever happened to the school disciplining students? Come on this is elementary school.

golfmom · #6 03-05-2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysteriew

But wait, whatever happened to the school disciplining students? Come on this is elementary school.

"Stout said the chair-tossing, desk-turning outburst occurred after a teacher, and later the assistant principal, attempted to stop the boy from joining his classmates. "

This looks like it had become way too dangerous of a situation. My aunt was a teacher and was permanently disabled by an elementary student.

Have any of you caught episodes of Nanny 911? Too frequently children are being raised as if they are full adults with all the privileges of making decisions to their detriment. Respect, guidelines, discipline, boundaries are necessary to raising children ... and it's not the schools place to instill basic values and behaviors.

Opie · #7 03-05-2005, 11:07 PM

Not to be redundant here, but I have seen such behavior, and it has nothing to do with the child being a brat, needing discipline, etc. Children, especially very young ones, with a real disorder DO act out like that, in spite of heavy-duty medications, etc. Perhaps this is not the case with the 8 y.o. in the article, but it does happen, unfortunately. And, no, teachers in a regular school (nor the other pupils) should be subjected to such behaviors. Children with severe probems such as these really should not be mainstreamed. We feel fortunate, blessed, however one wishes to state it, that we have a few schools specifically for these children, with teachers highly trained to deal with them. As you can tell, I feel very strongly on this subject. My own son (now an adult) was "hyperactive," as it was called back then. That was sufficiently difficult to manage, particularly since much less was known in those days. Families of children with severe disorders have a difficult, stressful situation.

golfmom · #8 03-06-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opie

Not to be redundant here, but I have seen such behavior, and it has nothing to do with the child being a brat, needing discipline, etc. Children, especially very young ones, with a real disorder DO act out like that, in spite of heavy-duty medications, etc. Perhaps this is not the case with the 8 y.o. in the article, but it does happen, unfortunately. And, no, teachers in a regular school (nor the other pupils) should be subjected to such behaviors. Children with severe probems such as these really should not be mainstreamed. We feel fortunate, blessed, however one wishes to state it, that we have a few schools specifically for these children, with teachers highly trained to deal with them. As you can tell, I feel very strongly on this subject. My own son (now an adult) was "hyperactive," as it was called back then. That was sufficiently difficult to manage, particularly since much less was known in those days. Families of children with severe disorders have a difficult, stressful situation.

Opie, two of my children have severe ADHD w/learning disabilities. My expectations of them are no different than any other child ... they still need to learn RESPECT and to not act out. A disability is not a free ticket to do whatever the heck you want to without consequences.

golfmom · #9 03-06-2005, 09:02 AM

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local...news-local-wbg

Update on this case ... mother speaks out

She said he was a newborn when she went to prison, and she only got custody of him again about two weeks ago. She is taking a parenting class now, he is on medication to help him control his impulses and they both get hours of counseling every week, along with his 11-year-old sister and the girl's father, who lives with the family. Both adults work at Colonial Williamsburg.

The boy became upset Tuesday after getting a spelling worksheet that was too hard for him, his mother said. He tore it up and then began turning over desks, she said. "He thinks he has to be perfect or he's going to be sent away, and we're not going to love him," she explained.

That's why he gets frustrated and angry so easily, she said. He feels like a failure, starts throwing things and breaking things and also attacks himself, raking his face with his nails, she said. She doesn't blame school officials or police for what happened or for anything they did.

"They all did exactly what they were supposed to do," she said. "The officer was very nice."
...........
He's been handcuffed at least a couple of times before, she said. She said it's better for police to restrain her son with handcuffs than physical force.

Jeana (DP) · #10 03-07-2005, 02:40 AM

I realize that my post is going to make everyone's Poster Beotch List, but I've been there before. I believe this child needs to be removed from the classroom he's currently in and moved into a classroom with a teacher train specially on how to deal with this type of disorder - and among other children who have the same or similar disorders. As a taxpayer, I realize that there are other children who will, from time-to-time, require my attention than my children. However, my children do NOT and should NOT be in an enviroment where they have to sit in the same classroom as potentially violent children with no control over themselves.

Okay - fire away.

txsvicki · #11 03-07-2005, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)

I realize that my post is going to make everyone's Poster Beotch List, but I've been there before. I believe this child needs to be removed from the classroom he's currently in and moved into a classroom with a teacher train specially on how to deal with this type of disorder - and among other children who have the same or similar disorders. As a taxpayer, I realize that there are other children who will, from time-to-time, require my attention than my children. However, my children do NOT and should NOT be in an enviroment where they have to sit in the same classroom as potentially violent children with no control over themselves.

Okay - fire away.

My 2 grandsons have ADD and one has a learning disorder in math and tested with a pretty low IQ. I am still, 3 school years later trying to figure out if they are getting all the help that is available. It's like some heavily guarded Texas treasure. I've had to request everything from testing to speech and occupational therapy. My grandson made all F's on the December report card and they were trying to take him out of special ed math. They have not been violent but have acted up and distracted the other students at times. The teachers didn't even give them a behaviour IP and I am going to have to ask for one of those I believe, and probably hire an advocate and get a MHMR case worker to give me some help. I don't even know what to ask for or about.

golfmom · #12 03-07-2005, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)

I realize that my post is going to make everyone's Poster Beotch List, but I've been there before. I believe this child needs to be removed from the classroom he's currently in and moved into a classroom with a teacher train specially on how to deal with this type of disorder - and among other children who have the same or similar disorders. As a taxpayer, I realize that there are other children who will, from time-to-time, require my attention than my children. However, my children do NOT and should NOT be in an enviroment where they have to sit in the same classroom as potentially violent children with no control over themselves.

Okay - fire away.

Jeana,
I mentioned before, but maybe it was missed, but my aunt was PERMANENTLY DISABLED by a middle school child while teaching.

Every child is different, but it doesn't appear based on the article that this young boy not only has a disorder, but a very disorderly life. My heart truly goes out to him, hopefully he'll get the help he so desperately needs.

golfmom · #13 03-07-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txsvicki

My 2 grandsons have ADD and one has a learning disorder in math and tested with a pretty low IQ. I am still, 3 school years later trying to figure out if they are getting all the help that is available. It's like some heavily guarded Texas treasure. I've had to request everything from testing to speech and occupational therapy. My grandson made all F's on the December report card and they were trying to take him out of special ed math. They have not been violent but have acted up and distracted the other students at times. The teachers didn't even give them a behaviour IP and I am going to have to ask for one of those I believe, and probably hire an advocate and get a MHMR case worker to give me some help. I don't even know what to ask for or about.

Gosh txsvicki I am so sorry that your having to work so hard for services for your grandsons. When my son was pre-school age, he was tested and qualified for pre-school educational services. However, they refused to actually pay for pre-school. Uh, big mistake ... I contacted the American's with Disabilities and they sent a representive to sit in on the IEP meeting.
They messed with the wrong mama!

Even if you need to hire someone to help you through the legal aspects, you are the BEST advocate for your grandsons ...

Timex · #14 03-07-2005, 09:46 AM

Many of us have children we have begged to have placed in a special school so they could receive the attention/care they so despartaely needed. Unfortunately, laws made by those with little ot no experience in disabled children have made this almost impossible. It isnt politically correct.

golfmom · #15 03-07-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timex

Many of us have children we have begged to have placed in a special school so they could receive the attention/care they so despartaely needed. Unfortunately, laws made by those with little ot no experience in disabled children have made this almost impossible. It isnt politically correct.

TIMEX!!!!! I'm so glad to see you here! Welcome Back!

mysteriew · #16 03-07-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txsvicki

My 2 grandsons have ADD and one has a learning disorder in math and tested with a pretty low IQ. I am still, 3 school years later trying to figure out if they are getting all the help that is available. It's like some heavily guarded Texas treasure. I've had to request everything from testing to speech and occupational therapy. My grandson made all F's on the December report card and they were trying to take him out of special ed math. They have not been violent but have acted up and distracted the other students at times. The teachers didn't even give them a behaviour IP and I am going to have to ask for one of those I believe, and probably hire an advocate and get a MHMR case worker to give me some help. I don't even know what to ask for or about.

Ohio is the same way Txsvicki. Unless you specifically ask for something they will not volunteer it. Reason: it costs them money. If you don't mind, I have a couple of suggestions. Contact the State Dept. of Education. Ask about any educational programs and/or materials for parents of kids on IEP's. Also ask about support groups or parents groups. Other parents are often your best resources. Find out what problems they have had, and how they are resolving them. Who they have worked with. Try to locate other parents of kids with disabilities and talk with them. Do the same with the Mental Health Dept. and the child's doctor. Contact the closest Children's Hosp. Social Service Dept. and ask them. Ask for advocates for your child from any association that covers your grandkids diagnoses. The help is there, but getting the help for your child is like pulling teeth (without pain meds)

Sudzi · #17 03-07-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)

I realize that my post is going to make everyone's Poster Beotch List, but I've been there before. I believe this child needs to be removed from the classroom he's currently in and moved into a classroom with a teacher train specially on how to deal with this type of disorder - and among other children who have the same or similar disorders. As a taxpayer, I realize that there are other children who will, from time-to-time, require my attention than my children. However, my children do NOT and should NOT be in an enviroment where they have to sit in the same classroom as potentially violent children with no control over themselves.

Okay - fire away.

No fire from me Jeana, I agree.
My daughters kindergarten teacher told me last year that she had never had a class so bad in all her 18 years at the school.
She said spending so much time on dicipline took away a lot of teaching time.
She went on to explain that the kids were not prepaired for school, and she didn't mean academically unprepaired, she was talking about the simple things they should learn before school.
To follow simple directions
To know the boundries of proper behaviour
And Respect.
I'm not saying children who act out occasionally or have learning disabilitys shouldn't be in the class, my own daughter has a learning disability. But, violent or constantly disruptive kids should be removed.
Now that I have that bullseye on my back, I'm going to hide behind Jeana.

Sudzi · #18 03-07-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmom

Gosh txsvicki I am so sorry that your having to work so hard for services for your grandsons. When my son was pre-school age, he was tested and qualified for pre-school educational services. However, they refused to actually pay for pre-school. Uh, big mistake ... I contacted the American's with Disabilities and they sent a representive to sit in on the IEP meeting.
They messed with the wrong mama!

Even if you need to hire someone to help you through the legal aspects, you are the BEST advocate for your grandsons ...

That's great Golfmom, here in Vermont they won't even do the testing until 1st. grade. I did have great teachers involved who got her as much help as they could, but nothing official until now, and 1st. grade is almost over!

golfmom · #19 03-07-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sudzi

That's great Golfmom, here in Vermont they won't even do the testing until 1st. grade. I did have great teachers involved who got her as much help as they could, but nothing official until now, and 1st. grade is almost over!

Oh that was a fun trick in itself ... we got through pre-school and presented my son for kindergarten. OK you ready for this one ... he's already been tested by another educational agency right???? so we get to pass *go* and jump right into services, right???? uh NO ... we had to start over and wait and see if the kindergarten teacher recommended he be tested and that won't happen until when?????? after kintergarten. Go to the back of the line.

Sudzi, I would bet money that Vermont does provide programs for pre-school children with disabilities ... they probably don't tell anyone. (shhhh it's a secret because someone might actually USE their DANG programs!!!!)

golfmom · #20 03-07-2005, 03:32 PM

VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
http://www.state.vt.us/educ/new/html/pgm_earlyed.html
Early Education Initiative (EEI)
Established by the Legislature in 1987, EEI prepares at-risk preschool children for success in kindergarten and beyond. EEI serves children who are ineligible or inadequately served by existing early childhood education programs. Coordinated with community programs to avoid duplication and to make the best possible use of resources, EEI services also fill gaps created by restrictive requirements or insufficient resources.

Sudzi · #21 03-07-2005, 03:40 PM

Thanks Golfmom, I now about the EEI now, but we didn't know there was a problem until she started school.

They have great head start programs, in the rural areas they come to your house and spend 2 hours a week with your child, they are looking for problem areas, but to the kids it's just like a play date.
My younger daughter was involved with that, for a month. Then it was determined that she was developed much further along than normal, well socialized etc... so they moved on to someone who needed the help.

golfmom · #22 03-07-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sudzi

Thanks Golfmom, I now about the EEI now, but we didn't know there was a problem until she started school.

They have great head start programs, in the rural areas they come to your house and spend 2 hours a week with your child, they are looking for problem areas, but to the kids it's just like a play date.
My younger daughter was involved with that, for a month. Then it was determined that she was developed much further along than normal, well socialized etc... so they moved on to someone who needed the help.

Yeah, I was kindof in the same boat with my middle child. I even had her tested for preschool services, but they said that she didn't qualify. Unfortunately, they hid a few facts from me and she didn't get the services she needed until much, much later. That's why I was armed for bears and was ready for a fight with my son. Older, wiser, and understanding their *system* I wasn't about to walk away without every single service I felt he needed.

Sudzi · #23 03-07-2005, 03:47 PM

It's a shame they make it so hard that we have to go in loaded for bear!
My littler one is going to be fine with the school stuff, but I'll be willing to bet she going to keep me running with her behavior.
She's to much like me!

golfmom · #24 03-07-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sudzi

It's a shame they make it so hard that we have to go in loaded for bear!
My littler one is going to be fine with the school stuff, but I'll be willing to bet she going to keep me running with her behavior.
She's to much like me!

LOL .. I hear that!

csds703 · #25 03-07-2005, 04:40 PM

For everyone here struggling to get proper placement for their kids, I would suggest contacting ACLD in your communities. They are a fantastic resource in helping parents get the right IEP in place. If behaviorial therapy (like this case) or physical therapy etc. is needed they can come to committee and act as the child's advocate. If your child is not getting the proper services in their district because the programs are not available you should insist that they get proper placement. I can go on and on but I won't.

Jeana

I disagree with your post because I realize that you probably know nothing about how inclusion works in a classroom. When it is done properly, all children in that class are hand picked. They make sure that the learning disabled are placed with very generous children. They explain to the kids in the class what the disabilities are when they are obvious and ask the class to act as role models. It turns out very well for both the disabled kids and the other kids because everybody wins. In those situations, there is usually less acting out because even with issues the kids feel accepted.When they feel like they belong, and they have a place to go for help, you will see less of the outbursts described by that mom.