Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#4

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Harmony 2

Harmony 2

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  • #1
  • #2
otto said:
I just put together another floor plan with just the room names. It's a little cleaner than the other plans I've posted. I've also overlaid the plan on the google map so we can see that the kitchen window (access from the deck) is not at all visible from the road, but Filomina's window is easily visible.



Click to expand...

....and this video adds another perspective to your excellent floor plan and map

[video=youtube;qe9y4a1u2jk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe9y4a1u2jk[/video]

Note: Brought this over from the previous thread.
 
  • #3
aa9511 said:
Her words are essentially reduced to meaningless drivel by one of the following arguments:

a) she was under extreme pressure during interrogation and said things which were not true.
b) she didn't have a translator or apparently the translator was useless and lousy at her job, because Amanda didn't understand what they were asking her.
c) she's just nutty and gives weird answers.
d) she routinely says odd things, it's just her personality.
e) we are not understanding the words coming out of her mouth because we are not her and we are not in her world of "normalcy."
f) (goes along with e) we have not had her exact life experiences, so how can we understand how she interprets questions, or for that matter, words? You see, "blood" means one thing to her and a different thing to us.
g) Since her words do not have the same meaning as what the literal definition of the words are, we cannot take the literal meaning of her words. We have to read "behind the words"....haha where have we heard that before? (Juan Martinez)


Donchaknow?
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Nice Summary of How to Wiggle Out of a Criminal Conviction ~ A Knox
 
  • #4
So here's the question:

If this professional climber can say that the average tall, athletic, youthful male can climb to Filomina's window without using the newly installed bars, why does he, an average, youth with an athletic build who is a professional climber, need to use the newly installed bars to get to the window?

 
  • #5
dog.gone.cute said:
Exactly ! Good points !

Now this is JMO, but I think that Knox tried to pass herself off as someone she was not ... know what I mean ?

IMO -- she probably tried to impress these girls, and when they realized she was not cracked up to be what she said she was, things went downhill from there ...

JMO and
Click to expand...

In Perugia, Knox moved in with two professionals (legal) and an Erasmus student from England. She had just blown off a job in Berlin and toked/slept her way from Germany to Italy. Knox was a language student at the foreigners university. Knox started her class well after Meredith. Everyone at the cottage had goals and dreams that they were living. I doubt any of them expected that Knox would hang her vibrator in the bathroom, fail to flush, repeatedly sing one bar on the guitar, irregularly burst into song in a restaurant, bring strange men home, get stoned as often as she ate pasta, bond with strangers through a mutual vice of getting stoned, and generally disrupt that calm environment that Laura, Filomina and Meredith had before Knox arrived.

Knox did not fit with Meredith and her friends (all attending the University with Meredith). She did not fit with the law professional's social life of Laura and Filomina. She did not have anything more than a hook-up with the four men living on the main floor of the cottage. Meredith had been dating one of the four. Knox did not fit with La Chic. Knox's job had been given to Meredith, although Meredith had not accepted the offer. On Halloween, Knox contacted Meredith several times. It appears that Knox was hoping to be included, but she was not. The murder occurred the following day.

That morning, November 1, Knox woke up early and went to the cottage. Sollecito joined her later, around 12:30 (he made pasta). Had Meredith woken up before Sollecito arrived?
 
  • #6
aa9511 (sorry, can't quote from previous thread):

"Oh verryyy interestng. So perhaps this is when some kind of initial confrontation took place? She says they "talked for a while" in the kitchen.

"Nothing out of the ordinary." Wow, that is so interesting. Trying to digest it now. If the murder was a random event/burglary, which obviously would not have been the fault of anyone except the burglar/murderer...then what would their kitchen conversation have to do with the murder? In other words, why did she have to say it was "nothing out of the ordinary?" Her whole e-mail was regarding Meredith's murder...by saying "nothing out of the ordinary," she is saying that nothing in their conversation foretold or gave her any sense of the awful events that would unfold that night. But of course, why would it, if it was some random event? Because even Meredith would have obviously not known anything about that. So why would there conversation have foretold anything....if neither of them had any idea of what was going to happen to her that night.

Hmmmmmm. Again I say, interestingggggggg. Or it could have been that they actually were having some argument in the kitchen, Meredith left and left Amanda seething over what she said. Anger which carried over into the night."
 
  • #7
Knox and Sollecito talked in the kitchen at the cottage shortly after noon on November 1, when Meredith still had remnants of Halloween costume makeup and Sollecito thought she looked cute in her former boyfriend's jeans. She was doing laundry, according to Knox, and left to have dinner with friends without providing any information to Knox.

Nothing out of the ordinary happened. Knox and Sollecito actually disagreed about how they got back to his apartment and what they did between 6pm and 8:30pm. Then we have the Amalie story, cell phone story (8:30pm to 6 am or 10:30am), fish story that is debunked by Sollecito's father, who points out that they'd already had the water leak by 8:30 and they were supposed to be in Gubbio for the day. Then comes the story about the mop and Meredith having supper at Sollecito's apartment.

Meredith left at 4pm on November 1, 2007. Knox/Sollecito discuss the time from 6-8:30pm. What did they do from 4pm until 6pm? Get stoned and have sex? Were they still stoned when they decided to turn off their cell phones, pack a knife (Knox perhaps being ridiculous again with a big knife), go on a mad drug search? When they met Guede, did they head to the cottage? Did they have a pre-arranged meeting with Guede at the basketball court to buy better drugs ...and they needed Meredith's €300? Did they come across Kokomani (cocaine) along the way, or in the alley? What did the tow truck and stalled car owner say that they saw on the road that night?
 
  • #8
otto said:
So here's the question:

If this professional climber can say that the average tall, athletic, youthful male can climb to Filomina's window without using the newly installed bars, why does he, an average, youth with an athletic build who is a professional climber, need to use the newly installed bars to get to the window?

Click to expand...



http://youtu.be/UsQLKWDskhA?t=6m14s


Exactly, and if you notice the camera goes further back at both these crucial points to take away from the fact that he has to use the bars to hoist himself up onto the ledge. Once in your still and again in 7:20 to 7:40 on the video where he appears to be having some difficulty. Here the camera suddenly moves position to focus on the commentators at the point where he obviously needs to support his body weight with the bars to pull himself up, then back to the climber and there he is sitting on the ledge, job done. IMO the whole demonstration is an absolute joke an obvious ruse to try destroy the faked break- in evidence LOL.
 
  • #9
otto said:
In Perugia, Knox moved in with two professionals (legal) and an Erasmus student from England. She had just blown off a job in Berlin and toked/slept her way from Germany to Italy. Knox was a language student at the foreigners university. Knox started her class well after Meredith. Everyone at the cottage had goals and dreams that they were living. I doubt any of them expected that Knox would hang her vibrator in the bathroom, fail to flush, repeatedly sing one bar on the guitar, irregularly burst into song in a restaurant, bring strange men home, get stoned as often as she ate pasta, bond with strangers through a mutual vice of getting stoned, and generally disrupt that calm environment that Laura, Filomina and Meredith had before Knox arrived.

Knox did not fit with Meredith and her friends (all attending the University with Meredith). She did not fit with the law professional's social life of Laura and Filomina. She did not have anything more than a hook-up with the four men living on the main floor of the cottage. Meredith had been dating one of the four. Knox did not fit with La Chic. Knox's job had been given to Meredith, although Meredith had not accepted the offer. On Halloween, Knox contacted Meredith several times. It appears that Knox was hoping to be included, but she was not. The murder occurred the following day.

That morning, November 1, Knox woke up early and went to the cottage. Sollecito joined her later, around 12:30 (he made pasta). Had Meredith woken up before Sollecito arrived?
Click to expand...


:seeya: . . . :goodpost: . . . And I totally agree !
 
  • #10
@Harmony I was unable to add the link you requested as thread #3 was closed, so I have brought my post forward, and included the link at the end:

@aa9511: Have included your original response to the post at the bottom, as I thought it was very interesting (otto kindly brought forward from thread #3):

SMK said:
I've always tried to be fair and if she is innocent, then I would want her vindicated.

But the email was very worrisome to me from the beginning. It struck me as odd, and more than odd.

Too defensive. And as if a story were being committed to record and to memory.
A little too much said, and an alarm goes off in the basement of the brain...

ETA:

I don't take statement analysis for gospel, but way back in the beginning of this case, when I leaned heavily toward innocence,
this part of the email bothered me, and I intuitively sensed what the analyst concludes here:
Click to expand...

<modsnip>
http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.blogspot.com/2012/11/amanda-knox-email-analyzed.html

aa9511 said:
:

"Oh verryyy interestng. So perhaps this is when some kind of initial confrontation took place? She says they "talked for a while" in the kitchen.

"Nothing out of the ordinary." Wow, that is so interesting. Trying to digest it now. If the murder was a random event/burglary, which obviously would not have been the fault of anyone except the burglar/murderer...then what would their kitchen conversation have to do with the murder? In other words, why did she have to say it was "nothing out of the ordinary?" Her whole e-mail was regarding Meredith's murder...by saying "nothing out of the ordinary," she is saying that nothing in their conversation foretold or gave her any sense of the awful events that would unfold that night. But of course, why would it, if it was some random event? Because even Meredith would have obviously not known anything about that. So why would there conversation have foretold anything....if neither of them had any idea of what was going to happen to her that night.

Hmmmmmm. Again I say, interestingggggggg. Or it could have been that they actually were having some argument in the kitchen, Meredith left and left Amanda seething over what she said. Anger which carried over into the night."
Click to expand...
 
  • #11
I don't see the benefit to the defense (or anyone really) in showing a professional climber getting up to the window in broad daylight.

Nobody doubts that is possible.

The problems for such a video:

It is daytime, not night like when the murder happened.

It shows the climber using the bars (put in after the murder) to reach the window. This HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE... the lawyer guy made it just the same.

- The climber did not go thru the window as the intruder would have.

- There was NO glass on the ground under the window.

- There was glass lined on the windowsill... like where the shutters would be.

- There was glass on top of the items on the floor.

- There were no pieces of grass/mud/sticks/etc on the floor of the room.

- There were no scuff marks on the wall as nobody climbed/struggle up it.

- Nothing was taken.

- The unlikely use of that window as the entry point in the first place.

- The positions of the shutters the next morning were not as Filomena left them.

So really IMO, one thousand videos of someone climbing UP to the window is basically useless for purposes of the case.

:jail:
 
  • #12
dgfred said:
I don't see the benefit to the defense (or anyone really) in showing a professional climber getting up to the window in broad daylight.

Nobody doubts that is possible.

The problems for such a video:

It is daytime, not night like when the murder happened.

It shows the climber using the bars (put in after the murder) to reach the window. This HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE... the lawyer guy made it just the same.

- The climber did not go thru the window as the intruder would have.

- There was NO glass on the ground under the window.

- There was glass lined on the windowsill... like where the shutters would be.

- There was glass on top of the items on the floor.

- There were no pieces of grass/mud/sticks/etc on the floor of the room.

- There were no scuff marks on the wall as nobody climbed/struggle up it.

- Nothing was taken.

- The unlikely use of that window as the entry point in the first place.

- The positions of the shutters the next morning were not as Filomena left them.

So really IMO, one thousand videos of someone climbing UP to the window is basically useless for purposes of the case.

:jail:
Click to expand...


BBM: BINGO ! Great points about the evidence found -- and NOT found !

:seeya:
 
  • #13
I ditto the above poster. Good post, dgfred!
 
  • #14
dgfred said:
- There was glass on top of the items on the floor.

- There were no pieces of grass/mud/sticks/etc on the floor of the room.

- There were no scuff marks on the wall as nobody climbed/struggle up it.

- Nothing was taken.
Click to expand...

I don't have time to go through this list in detail today, but I can give you a few quick thoughts: Filomena disturbed the glass when she picked up her computer. There was a piece of glass in Meredith's room (Hellmann mentions this and a photo is available). There were "crumbs" (for lack of a better word) on some cloth in Filomena' room, as someone pointed out here recently. There are also some footprints (not in blood) that are in Rinaldi's report, although he was not able to match them. IIRC the photos of the wall were not taken until much later, and this is not the only time that the police failed to document a scene as fully as they might have done. Nothing was taken from Filomena's room, but Rudy was probably after money, needing to pay his rent. He had not had much luck fencing stolen goods after all.

When and how was the window broken?
 
  • #15
Not to mention there was a mixed DNA sample of Meredith and amanda in Filomenas room. The excuse they lived together can't be used for this one. Considering there was no sample of either other roommate mixed with Meredith. Not even Filomenas own room.

How did that mixed sample revealed with luminal get there?
 
  • #16
Good point above, Amber. The more I am learning about this case, the more I see that there is actually a lot of evidence, and probably more evidence than there is in a lot of cases.
 
  • #17
:scared:

Filomena testified to the glass being on top of different items of clothes and equipment before she picked up her computer. I will take her word for it.

Glass in Meredith's room is irrelevant if someone is staging the broken window and then is moving about the cottage staging other areas.

IMO ILE documented and investigated in good order. Plenty good for most every other murder case.

Also IMO, she would be under the jail by now... if this happened in the US.

:jail:
 
  • #18
Love your Arias line at the bottom of your post aa.

Like she just figured it out. Haha. Nice.
 
  • #19
aa9511 said:
Good point above, Amber. The more I am learning about this case, the more I see that there is actually a lot of evidence, and probably more evidence than there is in a lot of cases.
Click to expand...

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/49768727

Such as in the case of Sheila Davalloo, although she had murdered Anna Lisa Raymundo by bludgeoning and stabbing her nine times in the victims own home there were no fingerprints, no DNA , nothing of the killer found at the bloodied crime scene, except for a tiny drop of her blood mixed with the victim's on a sink handle in Anna Lisa's bathroom.
 
  • #20
My responses are in red to dgfred's post.



- The climber did not go thru the window as the intruder would have.

If the bars had not been there IMO he would still have been able to hoist himself through if he had utilized the top bar on the lower window to climb up as the lawyer did. IMO the newly added burglar bars acted as a barrier and blocked the momentum to hoist himself up there.

wall8.jpg
link

Rudy was a former semi pro basketball player. He was athletic, lanky, agile, and thin. IMO The climb would not have been difficult for someone of Rudy's athleticism and body frame. Moreover, there was a similar MO in that he had gained access into a law office building by using a rock to break a window and he had brandished a knife at another robbery weeks prior. Not to mention a huge kitchen knife being found in his backpack when in the process of a robbery at a nursery school.

http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/rudy-hermann-guede/

- There was NO glass on the ground under the window.

Did the police use screens to filter and capture small shards of glass that may have been kicked under leaves or not visible due to the transparency of the glass pieces?

- There was glass lined on the windowsill... like where the shutters would be.

- There was glass on top of the items on the floor.

If his foot caught on the television cable under the window and jostled the clothes cabinet forward then backward depositing clothes on the floor, then glass would have fallen on top of the items as the intruder climbed through the window.

- There were no pieces of grass/mud/sticks/etc on the floor of the room.
dirt on clothes

I see dirt/mud and pieces of white rock on the clothes.

rh88.JPG
link


- There were no scuff marks on the wall as nobody climbed/struggle up it.

There were scuff marks on the cottage wall and the top edge of the sill, coincidentally exactly where the rock climber guy stood. However, there is no way to date those marks.

scuff marks on cottage wall

thum_497155178c4bde5a7e.jpg
link

scuff on window sill top edge

link

rh80.jpg
link

- Nothing was taken.
Chris answered this one&#8230;

- The unlikely use of that window as the entry point in the first place.

I am not sure why it would be unlikely on a dark night if the intruder wore dark clothes and blended into the dark shadows...A driver on that side of the road would have to turn back to look in that direction as they drove... There is a white metal fence obscuring view. Is it a two way road?
Photo of house and street

Rock12.jpg
link

amphitheatrewatchesbowl.jpg
link

streetlights on other side

[video=youtube;Vsbq7T8Tn4M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsbq7T8Tn4M[/video]


- The positions of the shutters the next morning were not as Filomena left them.
Because the killer moved them?
 
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