Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Current Events > Crimes in the News

Notices

Crimes in the News Read and comment about current crimes committed. Remember the copyright laws when posting news stories!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:26 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Not defending the sentence or the kid, but I think the distinction would be someone who intentionally sets out to harm someone (even if the consequence is greater or different then intended) and one who doesn't.

jmo
Intention here is drinking and then getting into the truck and driving.
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #152  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:35 PM
Karmady Karmady is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
Intention here is drinking and then getting into the truck and driving.
Right. But the law (in some states anyway-haven't researched it lately) does not link the intent to get drunk, or even the driving, with the intent to kill people. Different, for example than forming the intent to kill a specific person in premeditated way or a heat of the moment intent to kill a specific person under various circumstances. It's even different, legally, than intending deliberately to injure someone (like the knockout death case).
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:58 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Right. But the law (in some states anyway-haven't researched it lately) does not link the intent to get drunk, or even the driving, with the intent to kill people. Different, for example than forming the intent to kill a specific person in premeditated way or a heat of the moment intent to kill a specific person under various circumstances. It's even different, legally, than intending deliberately to injure someone (like the knockout death case).
Drunk driving has serious penalties. There is a case posted on this thread, about a 15 year old driving drunk in TX. He killed a woman.
Tried as an adult and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Of course he isn't a victim of "affluenza" so it's all good.
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #154  
Old 12-14-2013, 12:02 AM
Karmady Karmady is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
Drunk driving has serious penalties. There is a case posted on this thread, about a 15 year old driving drunk in TX. He killed a woman.
Tried as an adult and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Of course he isn't a victim of "affluenza" so it's all good.
I'm talking about the legal intent that could justify disparate sentences in a intentional assault case turned deadly (knock out game) v. dui. That's all.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Karmady For This Useful Post:
  #155  
Old 12-14-2013, 01:03 AM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
I'm talking about the legal intent that could justify disparate sentences in a intentional assault case turned deadly (knock out game) v. dui. That's all.
So what justifies disparate sentences for a 15 year old drunk driver who killed one person and got 20 years in adult prison, and victim off affluenza here who got probation for killing four?
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #156  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:09 AM
InALandFarFarAway's Avatar
InALandFarFarAway InALandFarFarAway is offline
Lah di freakin' dah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Right. But the law (in some states anyway-haven't researched it lately) does not link the intent to get drunk, or even the driving, with the intent to kill people. Different, for example than forming the intent to kill a specific person in premeditated way or a heat of the moment intent to kill a specific person under various circumstances. It's even different, legally, than intending deliberately to injure someone (like the knockout death case).
Criminal intent is not an element. So let's say "John" wouldn't need to intend to drive while drunk for a DA to prove a DWI/DUI case against him. Courts have consistently held that those offenses contain no element of a guilty mind so the DA isn't required to establish wrongful intent by John. All that the DA needs to prove is that the person intended to drink alcohol and then later operated a vehicle.

John being aware that he's impaired is NOT required to be proven by the prosecution.
__________________
Hey Jodi, get down from the cross. We need the wood.

Happiness is around every corner. Turn often.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to InALandFarFarAway For This Useful Post:
  #157  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:17 AM
ATasteOfHoney's Avatar
ATasteOfHoney ATasteOfHoney is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: where the big sharks come to play
Posts: 2,069
"Affluenza" <------ so cute that it almost sounds like a real affliction.


__________________
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Look, if any of us wanted to mind our own business, we wouldn't be here" (carbuff 8/11/13)

This post reflects my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy it anywhere else outside of the WebSleuth forum
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ATasteOfHoney For This Useful Post:
  #158  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:30 AM
LambChop's Avatar
LambChop LambChop is online now
WS Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT/NC
Posts: 17,519
Wouldn't drinking at the age of 16 be a crime for which the 16 year old was quite aware he was committing? So wouldn't getting into a car and hitting a group of people unintentionally still be a significant crime? Whether he intended to hit them or not he was under the influence and under age but chose to drive with reckless disregard for the safety of others.

Ten years is a long time to be on probation. He slips up, and he could, if he feels he was let off lightly, end up in jail. Let's hope he doesn't kill someone else. There are certain "young" starlets who have gotten off easy and still just are not getting it. They somehow manage to continue to make bad choices and remain free to get in trouble, yet again. jmo
__________________
A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LambChop For This Useful Post:
  #159  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:59 AM
Karmady Karmady is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
So what justifies disparate sentences for a 15 year old drunk driver who killed one person and got 20 years in adult prison, and victim off affluenza here who got probation for killing four?
I understand that the knock out game case was this same judge, but I haven't seen this dui case you're referring to. Is that also the same judge. If so, I have no idea. If not, it could be just the judge. They have tons of discretion in juvenile settings. jmo
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:01 AM
Karmady Karmady is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by InALandFarFarAway View Post
Criminal intent is not an element. So let's say "John" wouldn't need to intend to drive while drunk for a DA to prove a DWI/DUI case against him. Courts have consistently held that those offenses contain no element of a guilty mind so the DA isn't required to establish wrongful intent by John. All that the DA needs to prove is that the person intended to drink alcohol and then later operated a vehicle.

John being aware that he's impaired is NOT required to be proven by the prosecution.
I know that. That was my point. Intent crimes generally get harsher punishments than non-intent crimes like vehicular manslaughter. jmo
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:33 AM
Ladylub's Avatar
Ladylub Ladylub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: TX
Posts: 878
I do not see how giving him probation and forced to live in a spa like setting is going to get him fixed. They claim he suffers from affluenza yet they just gave him what he wanted..... freedom after killing 4. So not only can he blame his parents next time he does something wrong but he can also blame his lawyer and this judge.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Ladylub For This Useful Post:
  #162  
Old 12-14-2013, 12:06 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
Emutionally Disturbed
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 26,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by InALandFarFarAway View Post
He can't say it now without causing more problems. Besides, the truck is registered to the corporation and at least initially, the fleet manager handled the matter before sending the claim over to whatever company handles the insurance.

A written statement was probably taken by the insurance company given the gravity those statements are signed (each page) and become part of the claim file.

If he attempts to change his story now, he will jeopardize the coverage because it's clear he lied (either earlier or when he tried to change his version) and that will prompt a Reservation of Rights letter which gets issued before a full Declination of Coverage.

That is the kind of complication he does not need at the moment. lol

When your vehicle is in an accident and you weren't the driver, your claim rep will (or SHOULD) always, always, always ask you if the person driving had your permission to use it. And if they did have your permission to use it, were they using it to do something for you or were they using it for their own purposes. (state specific but the claim rep is looking to see if bailment appies)

There was a case here years ago in which a car was taken by the son of the owner and involved in an accident. The injuries were serious but not life threatening.

The issue was the father said there was no permissive use given. The argument was made that since the son lived in the house and had used the car in the past (not regularly; occasionally) and the father hung the keys on a hook by the door in plain sight, permissive use was implied.
Since he might have a license now he may be listed as a driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
The judge had an opportunity to do what this kid's parents never did. She had the opportunity to show him that indeed, in life there are consequences for one's actions. Her failure to send him this message means when he gets out of his swank, spa-like "rehab" in California, where he is being sent, he will have learned nothing and will emerge more empowered and dangerous than ever. This kid will remain a lost soul and a huge danger to society. Thanks, judge.

Totally agree.



Why was the judge trying to help this kid and not the other 16 year old she sentenced to 10 years, for killing someone with a single punch to the face?

I work in the business. Anyone who thinks money doesn't affect who is prosecuted and how much time they will get, (if any) has no understanding of justice in America.



You better believe that.

I would think that's obvious to everyone except those who deify the rich and think they've earned it.



Nonsense. he could have been sentenced to 20 and then been given years of probation. Now this kid will be out with a sense of empowerment so great he will become and even greater danger to society. This judge not only failed to defuse a ticking time bomb, she lit the wick.

Good analogy!



This kid will continue to break the law and get away with it repeatedly. I've seen it before. Money busy anything. he reminds me of the rich brats out here who gang raped a drugged teen girl, while videotaping it. Their creepy parents ran around putting up nasty fliers seeking dirt on the girl. She was so re-victimized in court and called a whore, repeatedly. It was awful. The main creep kept re-offending while on bail, but it wasn;t until he violated the terms about a dozen times and due to extreme public outcry, that he was finally arrested. http://articles.dailypilot.com/2004-...ner-greg-haidl

Wow! Just wow! Well that one will be hard to explain at the pearly gates.

(Here's various other articles on the monster and his buddies: http://www.ocweekly.com/related/to/Greg+Haidl/).



Hell, I guess in Texas, driving drunk and killing four people isn't a crime either.



And yoga. Don't forget yoga. Oh, and I heard his defesne attorney saying he IS facing consequences: "He's being taken from his family [to go to a swank spa in California]. And he won;t get to use his truck. Or play his x-box anymore."

I'm as a serious as a heart attack. He actually said that.

I saw that too and my jaw literally dropped.



Well, it's the money, of course.
My responses in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATasteOfHoney View Post
"Affluenza" <------ so cute that it almost sounds like a real affliction.


...You're so afraid to catch a dose of affluenza. You live your life like a canary in a coal mine, you get so dizzy even walking in a straight line....

Apologies to Sting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Wouldn't drinking at the age of 16 be a crime for which the 16 year old was quite aware he was committing? So wouldn't getting into a car and hitting a group of people unintentionally still be a significant crime? Whether he intended to hit them or not he was under the influence and under age but chose to drive with reckless disregard for the safety of others.

Ten years is a long time to be on probation. He slips up, and he could, if he feels he was let off lightly, end up in jail. Let's hope he doesn't kill someone else. There are certain "young" starlets who have gotten off easy and still just are not getting it. They somehow manage to continue to make bad choices and remain free to get in trouble, yet again. jmo
The Fiat commercial with Charlie Sheen saying that "House Arrest" isn't that bad is in very poor taste. I don't see it anymore and it may have been pulled.
__________________
Buttons Updated 04-02-2014



Thanks Steadfast for the spinning Buffalo Bills Emu

Made by HD ----->

Warning: Some buttons may be offensive!
BAD WORDS AND OFFENSIVE MATERIAL
AND STUFF LIKE THAT THERE!!


Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Steely Dan For This Useful Post:
  #163  
Old 12-14-2013, 12:25 PM
LambChop's Avatar
LambChop LambChop is online now
WS Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT/NC
Posts: 17,519
LOL. Steely, I was thinking of a well-known actress but Charlie also came to mind. I don't think he will ever grow up, and frankly he just doesn't care if he ever does.
__________________
A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LambChop For This Useful Post:
  #164  
Old 12-14-2013, 12:31 PM
Ladylub's Avatar
Ladylub Ladylub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: TX
Posts: 878
Looks like this judge did try to push rehab for the other boy as well just no one wanted to take him. Though I do bet money played a part in finding a "rehab" facility that would take the drunk driving teen.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Decis...235688241.html

Quote:
"She wanted to send him to one of these special places in Arizona, but no one would take him," Lauterbach said. "We were horrified. We just couldn't believe it. The district attorney and I were just sitting on pins and needles. But, when nobody would take him, [it was] a sigh of relief."
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Ladylub For This Useful Post:
  #165  
Old 12-14-2013, 01:25 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladylub View Post
Looks like this judge did try to push rehab for the other boy as well just no one wanted to take him. Though I do bet money played a part in finding a "rehab" facility that would take the drunk driving teen.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Decis...235688241.html
Of course it comes down to money. "Victim of affluenza's" father is willing to pay nearly half a million for the treatment per year. Vast majority of people could never afford anything like that.
So the poor ones would be shipped of to jail, while rich ones will be shipped off to a spa-like facility.
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #166  
Old 12-14-2013, 01:45 PM
LambChop's Avatar
LambChop LambChop is online now
WS Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT/NC
Posts: 17,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATasteOfHoney View Post
"Affluenza" <------ so cute that it almost sounds like a real affliction.


I think I'm catching it. Does it start with a dry, itchy throat????
__________________
A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LambChop For This Useful Post:
  #167  
Old 12-14-2013, 02:39 PM
Blondie in Spokane Blondie in Spokane is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,358
'If he were poor like us, he would've gotten 10 years, I bet': Parents of teenage soccer star paralyzed by drunk who avoided jail 'because he was rich' hit out at judge"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nager-20m.html
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Blondie in Spokane For This Useful Post:
  #168  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:20 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
"My request to the judge and Ethan is 'You be treated like any other 16 year old,'" Boyles said. "That the 'affluenza' and…power and influence not come into play here in this verdict and unfortunately it did."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/affluenza-d...ry?id=21220171
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #169  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:29 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,290
"Essentially what he has done is slapped this child on the wrist for what is obviously a very serious offense which he would be responsible for in any other situation," Buffone said. "The defense is laughable, the disposition is horrifying ... not only haven't the parents set any consequences, but it's being reinforced by the judge's actions."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/affluenz...tal-dwi-wreck/
__________________
Just my opinion
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:
  #170  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:40 PM
gitana1's Avatar
gitana1 gitana1 is offline
Verified Attorney
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 9,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Not defending the sentence or the kid, but I think the distinction would be someone who intentionally sets out to harm someone (even if the consequence is greater or different then intended) and one who doesn't.

jmo
Intent is not the only issue when it comes to the sentences judge's decide. Past history as well as actual harm caused is also a consideration. In the knock out case, yes, the kid intended to cause harm, but nothing close to the harm that resulted from his action. In this case, the kid didn't intend to cause harm but was so grossly reckless in his conduct that he showed he didn't care if actual harm occurred, nor to what degree. His past history of criminal activity shows that as well. Finally, 4 people died and one is permanently disabled.

When all the various factors are combined, this kid should have been given at least a similar sentence to the poor one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Right. But the law (in some states anyway-haven't researched it lately) does not link the intent to get drunk, or even the driving, with the intent to kill people. Different, for example than forming the intent to kill a specific person in premeditated way or a heat of the moment intent to kill a specific person under various circumstances. It's even different, legally, than intending deliberately to injure someone (like the knockout death case).
So what? The decision to get in one's vehicle while wasted and recklessly and selfishly risk lives, carries the potential for heavy penalties for a reason. You do understand that this case has gone viral precisely because the decision of the judge here was so outlandish and so different from the norm in similar such cases?

He received special treatment. It's not about whether this should be treated like a first degree murder case. It's about why this wasn't treated like every other vehuclar manslaughter case.
__________________
For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to gitana1 For This Useful Post:
  #171  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:41 PM
Herat Herat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,435
I really want the family of each and every one of those injured or killed innocent people to sue the family for millions.

Drag this out in public in courts for months for everyone to hear about this kid and this family that is so disgusting.

And, of course, I want the injured and wronged to prevail
__________________
Things that make you go hmmmmmm
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Herat For This Useful Post:
  #172  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:42 PM
gitana1's Avatar
gitana1 gitana1 is offline
Verified Attorney
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 9,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
"Essentially what he has done is slapped this child on the wrist for what is obviously a very serious offense which he would be responsible for in any other situation," Buffone said. "The defense is laughable, the disposition is horrifying ... not only haven't the parents set any consequences, but it's being reinforced by the judge's actions."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/affluenz...tal-dwi-wreck/

It's horrific. This judge just basically sent the message that the lives this creep ruined were worthless and that his is so much more precious. I can't imagine how she sleeps at night. I feel so sickened and sad for the families.
__________________
For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to gitana1 For This Useful Post:
  #173  
Old 12-14-2013, 04:52 PM
nightwatch nightwatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: life elevated
Posts: 714
This was not his first offense for drinking. But he gets go on your way don't kill anyone else sentence. A clear divide between the have's and the have not's. When he's twenty one or finishes his probation can this be expunged from his record? Jmt

Ciao
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to nightwatch For This Useful Post:
  #174  
Old 12-14-2013, 04:58 PM
ScarlettScarpetta's Avatar
ScarlettScarpetta ScarlettScarpetta is offline
I stand behind SoSueMe &all the A.D.M.I.N. / Mods working for the good of WS.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwatch View Post
This was not his first offense for drinking. But he gets go on your way don't kill anyone else sentence. A clear divide between the have's and the have not's. When he's twenty one or finishes his probation can this be expunged from his record? Jmt

Ciao
His probation goes until he is 26.. 10 years.

And I don't think this is about the haves and have nots rather the judge who ruled ridiculously.
__________________
Just my very humble Opinion And it may change from time to time...
I am always looking for where the evidence leads..
I won't answer the ridiculous.. Don't ask....


LOOK FOR THE TRUTH IN THE EVIDENCE NOT PEOPLES OPINIONS OR RUMOR. FIND OUT THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELF.

Sometimes posting from Tapatalk
Auto Correct is not my friend...

All posts are only my opinion without a link. My posts are only for use on WS. Thanks!!

"When people make knee jerk reactions to wrongdoing, they do wrong also"- Me
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ScarlettScarpetta For This Useful Post:
  #175  
Old 12-14-2013, 05:05 PM
LambChop's Avatar
LambChop LambChop is online now
WS Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT/NC
Posts: 17,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
His probation goes until he is 26.. 10 years.

And I don't think this is about the haves and have nots rather the judge who ruled ridiculously.
Don't the judges usually give out lighter sentences to juveniles who did not intentionally kill someone? With 10 years probation if he doesn't learn his lesson he will reoffend and end up with 20 years for violating his probation and reoffending. jmo
__________________
A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LambChop For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driver 5X DUI legal limit noZme Crimes in the News 1 02-29-2012 04:27 PM
MN - "Weaving all over the ice": Zamboni driver's DUI arrest wfgodot Crimes in the News 1 02-01-2012 08:32 PM
Solved KY - Karen Cox, 16 - killed in DUI crash, 1995 PrayersForMaura Resolved Cold Cases 1 12-28-2005 09:49 AM
Ice Cream Truck Driver Charged With DUI ariel7 Bizarre and Off-Beat News 6 06-16-2005 04:41 PM
Teen driver killed on way to visit Teen driver's shrine Casshew Bizarre and Off-Beat News 0 09-17-2004 04:23 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!