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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #1  
Old 07-08-2005, 04:02 PM
Keona Keona is offline
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Reasons why I believe a Ramsey killed Jonbenet

The note said:

"Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter."

But Patsy IMMEDIATELY dials 911...

"Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies."

They are warned over and over but end up doing EXACTLY the opposite of everything the note stated they MUST do. They obviously wanted her dead? Besides, can you name an real abduction where the ransom AND the ransom note were left behind? I guess the intruder kidnapped her but forgot to take her with them? Or did they rape and kill her in the house with the entire family home and nobody heard anything?

Do you really think they're innocent? I hate them both, they deserve to go to jail and die! I would flip the execution switch for them! I saw some pics of her dead and she suffered badly..You can see the pics at www.crimeshots.com/CrimeScene1.html

The Reasons I Believe A Ramsey Murdered JonBenét:

1. The Ransom Note

2. Practice Note on Patsy's legal pad

3. Their sudden decision to leave JonBenet's body in Colorado and immediately fly to Atlanta twenty minutes after her body was discovered.

4. Hired attorneys immediately, for EVERY member of the Ramsey family, including his ex-wife in Atlanta. WHY?!?!?!?

5. John goes missing for approximately 45 minutes around 11 AM and when he returns to join the others he begins drinking one drink after another.

6. John and Patsy received little, if any communication or comfort from the other, before JonBenet's body had even been "found." Why were they so angry with each other??? It seems to me like I would be hugging my husband if our child were to vanish.

7. Why did Patsy still have on the same clothing from the night before, when witnesses say Patsy NEVER wore the same thing two days in a row.

8. This is important - JonBenet's autopsy report stated there were chronic injuries to her vagina which Dr. Wecht stated that they appeared to have been inflicted about 72 hours earlier. Who ever did that is very likely the one who murdered her. An intruder theory would not fit with this likelihood existing, unless he broke in 3 days earlier, also.

9. Refused to be interviewed by Boulder police, unless it could be under their own terms.

10. Would not discuss events concerning the 24 hours before and the 24 hours after her murder.

11. Jonbenet was found in their home. That's really stupid, they could have at-least dropped her body else-where!!

12. Patsy said she "think" 2 people did it. How could she say that if she wasn't there and didn't hear/see anything?

13. She was found in the basement and only a person who is really familiar with the home would be able to find the basement. A maid who used to clean their house said she didn't even know about the basement.

14. John "checked" the basement while the police were there. I guess he didn't think to look there while they were "searching" for her before.

15. John looks like a sexual freak who would do something like that.

You have to agree!! If you still think they're innocent you're just an ignorant, baby killer and child molester yourself!!
  #2  
Old 07-08-2005, 04:05 PM
jaybird jaybird is offline
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You have to agree!! If you still think they're innocent you're just an ignorant, baby killer and child molester yourself!!


Well, I'd say that's a little extreme....
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2005, 04:24 PM
Toltec Toltec is offline
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That was quite a post...

It's true minorities get little or no air time when they are missing, kidnapped, and murdered...especially African-Americans.

Rich, white, pretty girls get national attention. Think JonBenet, Polly Klaas, Danielle Van Damm, and Elizabeth Smart.

I do believe that Patsy Ramsey accidently killed JonBenet. The reason she covered it up is age-old....self preservation.

My belief is that she watched part of the O.J. Simpson trial and used that to stage the kidnap. She knew that throwing her body on JonBenet would contaminate the crime scene. She threw everything into this kidnapping scenario...

One can only imagine what she had to do before 5:30am to stage this "crime".

Only Patsy knows and hopefully one day she would confess.

This is my opinion
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2005, 05:28 PM
tipper tipper is offline
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[…]

The Reasons I Believe A Ramsey Murdered JonBenét:

1. The Ransom Note
What about the ransom note? Patsy is on the low end of the scale of likely writers

2. Practice Note on Patsy's legal pad
"Patsy’s legal pad" was simply one of several pads out and around for list making etc.

3. Their sudden decision to leave JonBenet's body in Colorado and immediately fly to Atlanta twenty minutes after her body was discovered.
A curiosity which even John can’t answer. Perhaps he was flashing back to when Beth died. Perhaps he just wanted to get his family home to Atlanta and the idea of murder hadn’t yet sunk in. It sometimes takes people a while at actually believe they’ve been a victim of violent crime. If they were guilty it certainly wouldn't get him off the hook. Not even Kane was convinced John was guilty.

4. Hired attorneys immediately, for EVERY member of the Ramsey family, including his ex-wife in Atlanta. WHY?!?!?!?
Actually it was Bynum who suggested they needed legal counsel after he saw the way things were going at BPD. John told him to do what was needed

5. John goes missing for approximately 45 minutes around 11 AM and when he returns to join the others he begins drinking one drink after another.
I’ve never heard this before. Do you have a source?

6. John and Patsy received little, if any communication or comfort from the other, before JonBenet's body had even been "found." Why were they so angry with each other??? It seems to me like I would be hugging my husband if our child were to vanish.
Not true, The 2 GALs (Jedamus and Morlock) told BPD the Ramseys did spend time comforting and holding each other. Check Schiller

7. Why did Patsy still have on the same clothing from the night before, when witnesses say Patsy NEVER wore the same thing two days in a row.
I’ve never heard she never wore things two days in a row before. I've heard she sometimes dressed like a slob when she thought no one would see her. Can't remember what transcript I read that on. Do you have a source? The outfit was comfortable, had only been worn a few hours why not wear it and not have to bother with coming up with a new outfit. Several of us here have said we do the same thing on occasion.


8. This is important - JonBenet's autopsy report stated there were chronic injuries to her vagina which Dr. Wecht stated that they appeared to have been inflicted about 72 hours earlier. Who ever did that is very likely the one who murdered her. An intruder theory would not fit with this likelihood existing, unless he broke in 3 days earlier, also.
Not all experts agree with this.

9. Refused to be interviewed by Boulder police, unless it could be under their own terms.
Not unusual to negotiate terms in an adversarial situation. Patsy was very sick and among other things they were trying to do what her doctor was advising. The FBI says BPD was also responsible for the delay

10. Would not discuss events concerning the 24 hours before and the 24 hours after her murder.
I’ve never heard this before. Do you have a source?

11. Jonbenet was found in their home. That's really stupid, they could have at-least dropped her body else-where!!
Exactly! They could have driven out, disposed of the body, come home, and claimed they were driving around looking for her..

12. Patsy said she "think" 2 people did it. How could she say that if she wasn't there and didn't hear/see anything?
Probably because the note mentions more than one person.

13. She was found in the basement and only a person who is really familiar with the home would be able to find the basement. A maid who used to clean their house said she didn't even know about the basement.
That maid, her husband, daughter, and son-in-law were in that room the previous month getting out Christmas trees. Fleet White was in that room during a recent Christmas party, and painters used that room to store paint in. It wasn’t exactly a secret location.

14. John "checked" the basement while the police were there. I guess he didn't think to look there while they were "searching" for her before.
You will have to read the discussions here about John checking the basement.

15. John looks like a sexual freak who would do something like that.
A good reason to execute someone...

[…]
  #5  
Old 07-08-2005, 06:23 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
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Keona, I read your post and started to fall back into that rut (well it's obvious isn't it?). But then I read Tipper's saner statements. I guess that's why we have courts. I am not settled on RDI or intruder for various reasons. Oxam's razor tells me that unfortunately it might have been an accident, but I still find it difficult to believe that a parent could write such a note after such a horrific event.

I leave my mind open to an intruder and also a hybrid theory of BlueCrab's.

The insistent flat out RDI and they should pay with no legal protection is certainly consistent with your baby killer comment. Pure Borg.
  #6  
Old 07-08-2005, 06:50 PM
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Camper Camper is offline
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Wellllllll

Black children can be most beautiful. I would suggest if you are familiar with a case that involves a black child that you ask the moderator to start a forum for you.

I have followed this case closely since it happened close to where I live. I was married nearly 50 years ago at the Catholic Church down the alley from the Ramsey home. I love all children, winsome ones particularly, which does not necessarily mean they are beautiful in looks, but in spirit.

All children should be totally loved by their parents, some are some are not.

I agree, the separateness of PR and John when John came trudging up the stairs with their baby, she did not rise from her chair with wonderment, or run to her baby. Is that odd, I personally think so, which does not make it so, but to me it was odd.

Patsy said on CNN about the two party deal, that the killer must have, or words to that effect told someone else about the murder. Confided (confided was the word she used on CNN) if you will in another person, not a part of the killing itself.

Those of us who have been here working on this case for 8.6 years, have covered the items in your post til our fingers are sore.

Nothing much new, except that WE/I would like to know IF IF anyone saw PR out during the day, shopping or doing last minute errands without her two children, and while John was at the airport checking their personal plane. IF IF ANYONE saw Patsy out and about ON Christmas Day, during the time frame when John was also gone from the home. Then the children most likely were left with a babysitter, who just might be the most acceptable suspect this case has ever seen.

Add to that that Mr. B saw a youthful male approach the home on Christmas. IF Mr. B had been nosy he might have hung about until he saw 'the unknown person' go into the home, and also know WHO opened the door for him. Hmmm.




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  #7  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:07 PM
narlacat narlacat is offline
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I find it suspect that two of the Ramsey's neighbours changed their stories about what they saw and heard that night.
  #8  
Old 07-08-2005, 08:27 PM
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The case of the disappearing post that I am responding to, huh, er?

Below is a part of the gone gone post, left the part that seemed ok to me.

Quote:
With that said ... I still wonder who Barnhill saw walkng towards the
Ramsey house?I don't believe for a second his story about having been
mistaken ... he saw someone who looked like JAR.I think Barnhill did not
want to get involved in this horrible thing and feigned "old age
confusion".


----->>>Barnhill was not old age confused, he was suffering from
intimidation from the Ramsey attorneys, who advised that JAR was NOT in
Boulder on THAT day. YET the Ramseys through their attorneys never gave
a news story or wonderment about WHO THE WHO WAS that approached their home the day their baby was killed. I find that ODD, betcha Barnhill
thought that was ODD too.

P.S. I do take umbrage to remarks about old age. I have been young and now am old, which gives me an advantage to discuss old age with knowledge and experience of being old.



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  #9  
Old 07-09-2005, 12:11 AM
Shanny Shanny is offline
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13. She was found in the basement and only a person who is really familiar with the home would be able to find the basement. A maid who used to clean their house said she didn't even know about the basement.


That is one thing that confuses me about the case, the back basement room.
If the Ramseys killed JonBenet on accident why didn't they just leave her in her bed and say she died in her sleep or she fell off her bed and cracked her head ? Why did they have to strangle her with a garrote, sexually assault her with a paint brush, tie her hands up, tape her mouth and then drag her to a far back room in the basement ?
They needed to do all of that just to prove that an intruder came in and killed their daughter ?
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2005, 02:55 AM
narlacat narlacat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny
13. She was found in the basement and only a person who is really familiar with the home would be able to find the basement. A maid who used to clean their house said she didn't even know about the basement.


That is one thing that confuses me about the case, the back basement room.
If the Ramseys killed JonBenet on accident why didn't they just leave her in her bed and say she died in her sleep or she fell off her bed and cracked her head ? Why did they have to strangle her with a garrote, sexually assault her with a paint brush, tie her hands up, tape her mouth and then drag her to a far back room in the basement ?
They needed to do all of that just to prove that an intruder came in and killed their daughter ?
Seems a tad extreme I know Shanny.
I dont think it was as easy as saying she died in her sleep, why on earth would she die in her sleep, she was 6 years old, unless a child can die from SIDS at 6...
If the Ramsey's said she fell out of bed, I'm sure it wouldnt have taken long for the experts to work out you dont get a crack in your skull like that from merely falling out of bed.
I think you will find the general consensus is the head blow happened after the strangulation, but I could be wrong and I remain undecided as to what happened first.
  #11  
Old 07-09-2005, 05:57 AM
GuruJosh GuruJosh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper

3. Their sudden decision to leave JonBenet's body in Colorado and immediately fly to Atlanta twenty minutes after her body was discovered.
A curiosity which even John can’t answer. Perhaps he was flashing back to when Beth died. Perhaps he just wanted to get his family home to Atlanta and the idea of murder hadn’t yet sunk in. It sometimes takes people a while at actually believe they’ve been a victim of violent crime. If they were guilty it certainly wouldn't get him off the hook. Not even Kane was convinced John was guilty.
John said that he needed to take the family to Atlanta because he had "something really important to attend to."

What?
  #12  
Old 07-09-2005, 09:57 AM
Zman Zman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny
13. She was found in the basement and only a person who is really familiar with the home would be able to find the basement. A maid who used to clean their house said she didn't even know about the basement.


That is one thing that confuses me about the case, the back basement room.
If the Ramseys killed JonBenet on accident why didn't they just leave her in her bed and say she died in her sleep or she fell off her bed and cracked her head ? Why did they have to strangle her with a garrote, sexually assault her with a paint brush, tie her hands up, tape her mouth and then drag her to a far back room in the basement ?
They needed to do all of that just to prove that an intruder came in and killed their daughter ?
No they did not.
But for some people if you eliminate the R's from suspicion then there is nothing to post about.
  #13  
Old 07-09-2005, 10:30 AM
simplesimon simplesimon is offline
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another reason

I am not sure who really killed little JonBenet, but I am leaning towards BC's theory.
One of the things that really makes the Ramsey's suspect is the fact that a HiTech boot print was found next to her body. They denied that anyone owned them.However I believe at the Grand Jury FW and BR stated that BR had a pair.
Now these boots seem pretty unique and not easy to forget about. Why lie? BR lived in the house and a simple explanation could be he was in the basement on other occasions,no one knew when the print was left. So why the lie?(shades of OJ and his Bruno Magli's)
  #14  
Old 07-09-2005, 12:06 PM
tipper tipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplesimon
I am not sure who really killed little JonBenet, but I am leaning towards BC's theory.
One of the things that really makes the Ramsey's suspect is the fact that a HiTech boot print was found next to her body. They denied that anyone owned them.However I believe at the Grand Jury FW and BR stated that BR had a pair.
Now these boots seem pretty unique and not easy to forget about. Why lie? BR lived in the house and a simple explanation could be he was in the basement on other occasions,no one knew when the print was left. So why the lie?(shades of OJ and his Bruno Magli's)
Oh I don't know. What brand of shoes was your kid wearing 3 years ago? I can't remember what brand mine are wearing today and I have no idea what they wore before, even the ones with the little lights in the sole. It may be that Burke owned Hi-tecs and they are the source of the print. But I wonder, wouldn't the logo be smaller in a child's shoe? I'm not sure how unique they were. They apparently were just a standard Hi-Tec with a compass tied to the laces.
  #15  
Old 07-09-2005, 12:34 PM
sissi sissi is offline
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Why did the BPD claim Helgoth's were not the Hi-tecs they were looking for, was it the size? Could they determine the size by the print? It was said by Ramsey investigators that Helgoth's ,not only ,were the size but ,better, had microscopic bits of matching mold. The BPD, is again playing with the public to allow misinformation, the suggestion, that this was a child's shoe.

48 hours quote..
San Augustin showed 48 Hours the underside of Helgoth's boot. "On the left is the high tech impression that was made in the area where JonBenet's body was found," says San Augustin. "There's no reason for Helgoth's boot to be in the Ramsey home where JonBenet's body was found."

The investigators turned the boots over to the Boulder police, who now claim their investigation showed they were the wrong size for a match. But they have yet to be turned over to the district attorney for further analysis.

The private detectives in their investigation also uncovered a number of Helgoth's personal video tapes that they say the sheriff's office ignored. San Augustin says they found one piece of video that included coverage of an unsolved murder in Colorado
  #16  
Old 07-09-2005, 02:06 PM
Keona Keona is offline
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Feel free to agree or disagree with me. I'll stand by my words. I do and always will believe the Ramsey's did it. No one can change that.
  #17  
Old 07-09-2005, 02:09 PM
Keona Keona is offline
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That was quite a post...

It's true minorities get little or no air time when they are missing, kidnapped, and murdered...especially African-Americans.

Hi! Thanks for your comments. For the record, 'black' is the appropriate word. Not "African American".

Rich, white, pretty girls get national attention. Think JonBenet, Polly Klaas, Danielle Van Damm, and Elizabeth Smart.

Yep, the gorgeous white girls. They don't cover ugly white girls, just the drop dead beautiful ones like the ones you named and Samantha Runnion.

I do believe that Patsy Ramsey accidently killed JonBenet. The reason she covered it up is age-old....self preservation.

I agree!! Glad to see I have somebody else who understands.

My belief is that she watched part of the O.J. Simpson trial and used that to stage the kidnap. She knew that throwing her body on JonBenet would contaminate the crime scene. She threw everything into this kidnapping scenario...

And left all the clues there huh? LOL!

One can only imagine what she had to do before 5:30am to stage this "crime".

Only Patsy knows and hopefully one day she would confess.

This is my opinion

It's my opinion as well!
  #18  
Old 07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
capps capps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narlacat
I find it suspect that two of the Ramsey's neighbours changed their stories about what they saw and heard that night.
Narlacat,

That does sound suspicious.
Which brings me to the question ... who can we believe?

We shouldn't believe the neighbors.
We shouldn't believe the Ramseys.
We should believe ST.
We shouldn't believe Lynn Wood.
We shouldn't believe the police.
We shouldn't believe Schiller.
We shouldn't believe the media.
We shouldn't believe the DA.

All of the above are either lying,exaggerating,covering up,etc.

This is not a question to be argumentive ... I really would like to know ... who has the real facts,and who should we believe?

How can this case ever be solved ... when every one is watching their backs?
  #19  
Old 07-09-2005, 10:41 PM
Raina Raina is offline
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[quote=capps]Narlacat,

That does sound suspicious.
Which brings me to the question ... who can we believe?

We shouldn't believe the neighbors.
We shouldn't believe the Ramseys.
We should believe ST.
We shouldn't believe Lynn Wood.
We shouldn't believe the police.
We shouldn't believe Schiller.
We shouldn't believe the media.
We shouldn't believe the DA.

All of the above are either lying,exaggerating,covering up,etc.

This is not a question to be argumentive ... I really would like to know ... who has the real facts,and who should we believe?

How can this case ever be solved ... when every one is watching their backs?
Well for starters..........you can count ST as a liar. He wrote a book that was full of lies and he begged and begged for money to defend it saying he he would love to nothing more than to take Ramseys to court. What did ST do? Ponder that!
  #20  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
BlueCrab BlueCrab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sissi
Why did the BPD claim Helgoth's were not the Hi-tecs they were looking for, was it the size? Could they determine the size by the print?

sissi,

They eliminated Helgoth because his DNA did not match. They conveniently forgot to mention that in the Ramsey infomercial.
  #21  
Old 07-10-2005, 12:02 AM
capps capps is offline
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[quote=Raina]
Quote:
Originally Posted by capps
Narlacat,

That does sound suspicious.
Which brings me to the question ... who can we believe?

We shouldn't believe the neighbors.
We shouldn't believe the Ramseys.
We should believe ST.
We shouldn't believe Lynn Wood.
We shouldn't believe the police.
We shouldn't believe Schiller.
We shouldn't believe the media.
We shouldn't believe the DA.

All of the above are either lying,exaggerating,covering up,etc.

This is not a question to be argumentive ... I really would like to know ... who has the real facts,and who should we believe?

How can this case ever be solved ... when every one is watching their backs?
Well for starters..........you can count ST as a liar. He wrote a book that was full of lies and he begged and begged for money to defend it saying he he would love to nothing more than to take Ramseys to court. What did ST do? Ponder that!
Wasn't it reported some where that FW said almost the same thing: The next time I would want to see John is in court. Or something to that effect?
  #22  
Old 07-10-2005, 12:48 AM
sissi sissi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrab
sissi,

They eliminated Helgoth because his DNA did not match. They conveniently forgot to mention that in the Ramsey infomercial.
Very well BC, "but" did they eliminate the shoes because of the size? The BPD knows what size man's shoe they are looking for. There was more than ONE print, we are focusing on the print that left the "perfect" logo impression, it is not the only one.
Many do believe Helgoth was a two man team , and unfortunately for him, the other half felt he was too much of a loose cannon to trust with this "secret".
Are you certain your suspect wasn't cleared on dna, as well?
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