news on JBR's coroner

[ellen13]

Thought this was interesting:



http://www.comcast.net/news/national...20/308194.html

[Seeker]

Even though he offered his "expert" opinion over and over on the case, Dr Wecht wasn't actually JBR's coroner...John Meyer was.

[tipper]

http://www.mankatofreepress.com/feed...es_apstoryview
Celebrity Coroner Indicted on Fraud, Theft

By JOE MANDAK
The Associated Press

PITTSBURGH —

Dr. Cyril Wecht, a high-profile coroner who has consulted on deaths from Elvis Presley to JonBenet Ramsey, was indicted on federal charges of using government resources to further his private practice.

The 84-count indictment includes mail fraud, wire fraud, theft of honest services and theft from the Allegheny County coroner's office, which Wecht heads.

FBI agents searched his office, seizing computers and his private files last spring, and three of his employees resigned as the federal investigation proceeded.
[...]

[scandi]

OMG Thanks Tipper for posting this. We all know him so well from his commentary on the Scott Peterson case! I never knew he had such skeletons in his closet. He must be doing again what he did back in the early 80's that is considered against the law.

Can anyone tell a layman like me what he is doing that is exactly wrong? Thanks.


Scandi

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by scandi

OMG Thanks Tipper for posting this. We all know him so well from his commentary on the Scott Peterson case! I never knew he had such skeletons in his closet. He must be doing again what he did back in the early 80's that is considered against the law.

Can anyone tell a layman like me what he is doing that is exactly wrong? Thanks.


Scandi

It's a conflict of interest to earn money for your private business at the same time you are being paid by your government employer for starters.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_415595.html

Allegheny County Medical Examiner Dr. Cyril H. Wecht traded corpses of people whose next of kin could not be found to a local college in exchange for laboratory space for his private business, federal prosecutors said today. Several bodies a month -- for at least a year -- were given to the unnamed college, U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan said this morning after a federal grand indicted Wecht on 84 counts, including mail and wire fraud, theft of honest services and theft from an organization receiving federal funds.
"Probably the most significant aspect of this fraud is that Cyril Wecht used employees paid for by the county for his personal benefit," Buchanan said.

Wecht, 74, overbilled clients, including Westmoreland, Fayette and Greene counties, for which he performed pathology services, according to the indictment. For example, Wecht billed those counties for travel expenses that had already been paid for by Allegheny County taxpayers, the indictment states.

[scandi]

Looks like he is in deep doo-doo!

How could such an intelligent man like this do something so blatently against the law? Amazing! Trading bodies for a service.
We do have someone here at WS who either is a coroner or works for a mortuary - she worked in the place where Elvis' body was readied for buriel I think. It would be interesting to hear from this poster. I'm wondering if this is normal practice for coroners - does this practice go on regularly in that business? How do medical schools get their bodies? I know already they must pay for them. LOL


Scandi

[tipper]

Originally Posted by Seeker

It's a conflict of interest to earn money for your private business at the same time you are being paid by your government employer for starters.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_415595.html

And earn a LOT of money too, it seems.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_415595.html
[…]
From 1997 to 2004, while Wecht was serving his second stint as an elected coroner, his private business, Cyril H. Wecht and Pathology Associates, generated more than $8.75 million in revenue, and from that Wecht was paid more than $4.65 million, according to the indictment.
[…]

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by scandi

Looks like he is in deep doo-doo!

How could such an intelligent man like this do something so blatently against the law? Amazing! Trading bodies for a service.
We do have someone here at WS who either is a coroner or works for a mortuary - she worked in the place where Elvis' body was readied for buriel I think. It would be interesting to hear from this poster. I'm wondering if this is normal practice for coroners - does this practice go on regularly in that business? How do medical schools get their bodies? I know already they must pay for them. LOL


Scandi

Not necessarily. People can will their body to science and designate a particular school, or research facility to be the recipient of their remains.

[Nehemiah]

Originally Posted by scandi

How do medical schools get their bodies? I know already they must pay for them. Scandi

The school my son attends uses a lot of homeless peoples' bodies.

Wecht sure was energetic.

[tipper]

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

The school my son attends uses a lot of homeless peoples' bodies.

Either way, why would Wecht think they were his bodies to trade to benefit his private company?

Added:
He's been trying to settle.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182343,00.html
His defense attorneys, including former U.S. Attorney General Dick Thornburgh, have said they met with federal prosecutors in recent weeks to try to negotiate a settlement. His defense attorneys, including former U.S. Attorney General Dick Thornburgh, have said they met with federal prosecutors in recent weeks to try to negotiate a settlement.

[ellen13]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Even though he offered his "expert" opinion over and over on the case, Dr Wecht wasn't actually JBR's coroner...John Meyer was.

Seeker,
Thanks for the clarification. What are your thoughts on Wecht? Was he in agreement with Meyer?

[capps]

Let's not kid ourselves .... I'm not saying all doctors are corrupt,but things like this happen all the time. The only difference is,Dr.Wecht,unfortunately for him ... got caught.

[Jayelles]

I don't know Wecht apart from his book on the ramsey case which I bought. I appreciated his ability to explain the autopsy in lay terms - only a real expert can do that.

If he fiddled his books, he deserves to be punished. However, it doesn't mean that he doesn't know his stuff. There are a lot of brilliant but unscrupulous people in the world.

Not sure about the bodies thing. There are two distinct arguments here. On one hand, there is a human rights issue - who give anyone the right to trade in cadavers? On the other hand, it seems that a lot of good may have come out of the dirty deeds in terms of medical advancement. I don't know what the laws are about this. In the UK, Burke and Hare were the notorious "bodysnatcher" who obtained fresh corpses which they sold to medical schools for research. Awful for the families but how many of us benefited from the medical research?

There have been lots of high-publicity cases of hospitals removing body parts for experimentation and research without the families' consent. Years later, the body parts turn up in some cupboard and the families thought they buried the entire corpse.

Personally, I don't have an issue with this. We're a family of organ donors, blood donors and and bone-marrow donors. I am also considering leaving my body to medical research at the moment. The only thing which is holding me back is the thought that I'd be used for a student prank!

[tipper]

Originally Posted by Jayelles

[...]

Not sure about the bodies thing. There are two distinct arguments here. On one hand, there is a human rights issue - who give anyone the right to trade in cadavers? On the other hand, it seems that a lot of good may have come out of the dirty deeds in terms of medical advancement. I don't know what the laws are about this. In the UK, Burke and Hare were the notorious "bodysnatcher" who obtained fresh corpses which they sold to medical schools for research. Awful for the families but how many of us benefited from the medical research?

[...]

I don't think the problem is in the use of cadavers per se. If the charges are true he converted an asset he gained access to as a state employee to benefit his private company. We'll have to wait and see what the evidence is.



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06021/641975.stm

[...]

U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan outlined the indictment at a news conference yesterday, including a charge that Dr. Wecht provided bodies that went unclaimed at the coroner's office for use as cadavers in the forensic sciences program at Carlow University. The government said the bodies were provided at no cost in exchange for lab space for his private practice.

A cadaver typically costs between $1,800 and $4,000.

Ms. Buchanan would not say how many bodies were involved but that there were several each month. The indictment said the practice went on from June 2003 to December 2005.

"Cyril Wecht allowed the bodies to be used by the school for practice," Ms. Buchanan said.

Carlow University officials in a statement yesterday denied there was any kind of trade agreement with Dr. Wecht for use of its labs.

"Carlow provided facilities to Dr. Wecht for the purpose of teaching autopsy procedure as part of the course of instruction in the university's forensic sciences program," the statement read. "At no time, did Carlow trade laboratory space for cadavers."

The college said it believed Dr. Wecht was acting lawfully and that the autopsies were performed as part of his private practice and had no relation to his duties as the county coroner.

Ms. Buchanan said that a body in Pennsylvania should not be autopsied unless the cause of death is unclear. In these instances with the unclaimed bodies, there was no need for an autopsy, she said.

[...]

[Jayelles]

So he "stole" from his employer? I suppose this is a bit like one of use using our employer's photocopier for personal use ... except on a much grander scale? Is he guilty of medical malpractice? Or of cooking his books?

[BlueCrab]

The whole Wecht inictment issue reeks of jealousy and politics at its worse. Dr. Wecht doesn't appear to have violated the law at all. Even the college denies it traded anything for the cadavers -- a direct rebuttal of what the DA considers his main charge against Wecht. The goal of the indictment is an attempt to politically smear someone who holds an elected office as coroner and also has a perfectly legal private practice in the same field.

BlueCrab

[Tricia]

Originally Posted by BlueCrab

The whole Wecht inictment issue reeks of jealousy and politics at its worse. Dr. Wecht doesn't appear to have violated the law at all. Even the college denies it traded anything for the cadavers -- a direct rebuttal of what the DA considers his main charge against Wecht. The goal of the indictment is an attempt to politically smear someone who holds an elected office as coroner and also has a perfectly legal private practice in the same field.

BlueCrab

Have I told you that I love you BlueCrab

This is exactly what I think is going on.

[ellen13]

Tricia,

One day you're going to love me too, you just don't know it yet LOL!
I'm too new to be trusted and my theories and knowledge of this case
are so minimal, but I think highly of you for starting this board. I think time
will reveal that I'm a good egg-LOL!!
I feel like I have a life again here on the JBR board-LOL!

Ellen13

[leann coburn]

I'm the ex-embalmer with years in every aspect of the funeral business, starting with removal and ending with working with families. I have commented on several threads before how prevalent abuse of the deceased is in our funeral homes in America. Parts are sold off by order. When you sign the paperwork to be embalmed, the paper says "some removal of tissue and/or fluid" is to be expected during the procedure. Duh. But this opens the door for them to take whatever they want from the corpse, as long as it isn't visible. If you are cremated, you can become a buffet. All inplants etc. must be removed before cremation. If they have an "order" they will take what they can from those to be cremated. I have seen most of the bones taken from corpses. If there is dental gold present, the chart will be marked w/ a giant AU for gold and the gold will be ripped out. Ever wonder why there are so many commercials to buy dental gold?

Remember around christmas when it was reported that Alistair Cooke's bones had been stolen and had exposed the top of the iceberg as to the parts-snatching going on in New York City? Someone there touched a lady's legs in her casket and found them to be pvc pipe. They use chicken wire to fill empty skulls. They wire then superglue your lips together. If decapitated, let's just say the procedure isn't complicated and only included a long dowel rod and some wire. Use your imagination. When the high class (and it is) funeral home I worked for last ran out of mouth formers (that keep the lips from sinking in) they used business cards from anywhere for a while, which is a shocking thing to see.

Most colleges and research institutes will pay around $5000 for a complete spinal column. I have delivered a box of spinal columns several times to a research facility in downtown Memphis and let me tell you it's disgusting.

Designate a "watcher" to observe the process your loved ones go through after death. That's your only protection. Or be honest and just go ahead and give your body to science. But be aware, if no local teaching facility is currently "openly" looking for a free body, they may not even come pick it up. It's funny how this works. Then you usually end up in the pauper's cemetery with everyone else and it never really mattered anyway.

Fact is, it's an industry formed from smoke and mirrors and false "memory pictures". If one chooses traditional services, then their wishes and rights as well as those of the family should be fiercely followed.

imo

[leann coburn]

And by the way, let's not even get started on the double and triple cremations and the slow response to cremation requests. I don't want to ever encounter another "ripe" person in the back hall of funeral home basement. Oops, just a little ripe. Try to get to it soon, the cooler is full of cases to be embalmed. To say that I hated my many years in this "business" is to put it lightly. Funeral directors and workers on the whole (w/a few exceptions) could make any crooked used car salesman feel good about himself. Selling funeral goods based on their inflated commissions, they are disgusting after sitting with a bereaved family and then handing the paperwork downstairs in the end. The only thing they want to know (and it's a competition) is how much their take will be. If you get them to buy the rose quartz vault and the presidential casket, you can get a total of around $15,000 or more. Then they celebrate and take off for lunch at the local hooter's (but worse) Vampires!!

Just an honest reality check. And if anyone is interested, I consistently worked for the two largest funeral corporations in the world. You can google that and yes, HOUSTON, we do have a problem.....

[narlacat]

leann coburn

Thank you for the shocking info. I had no idea that was going on in my world lol, wonder if it's the same here in Oz.

[ellen13]

Originally Posted by narlacat

leann coburn

Thank you for the shocking info. I had no idea that was going on in my world lol, wonder if it's the same here in Oz.

Leann,
I'm with Narla. I'm in shock!! Dear God, help us. You'd think they would
have some strict regulations on this. I'm thinking at this point that I don't want to go to a funeral home or be embalmed. I want to go straight from the morgue to the casket to the ground. End of story!! Can I have that done?
Ellen13

[tipper]

Originally Posted by ellen13

Leann,
I'm with Narla. I'm in shock!! Dear God, help us. You'd think they would
have some strict regulations on this. I'm thinking at this point that I don't want to go to a funeral home or be embalmed. I want to go straight from the morgue to the casket to the ground. End of story!! Can I have that done?
Ellen13

Each state has its own regulations. Your best bet would be to go in and set it up ahead of time.

[ellen13]

Originally Posted by tipper

Each state has its own regulations. Your best bet would be to go in and set it up ahead of time.

Thanks Tipper!! I will tell my hubbie what I want done!

[leann coburn]

If interested, just tell the funeral home that you desire the same services normally reserved for devout jews. You will be washed off under a sheet in a dignified manner. You can be placed in any clothing of your choosing. You will not be placed in a grave liner or "vault". A special wooden casket will be used. It is built without metal or decoration of any kind. It is dovetailed and glued on the corners. When placed directly in the ground, the bottom neatly slides out and you are in contact with the ground. Dust to dust naturally. You do not have to be embalmed in any state in this country unless you plan to have a drawn-out service that includes a public viewing. Then they will use "health" concerns to push for embalming. There is NO law that requires embalming except for some cases of shipping or of crutzfeld-jacobs disease. Not even aids is an exception. The truth is that a fresh dead human body really poses no health crisis. The only reason for embalming is for display. It doesn't prevent decay or eventual decomposition and a sealed casket only ensures a messy situation when the gases build up and have no where to go. This causes the body to explode inside the casket, which is not what any of us want. So ask for the "kosher" treatment with next-day burial. And graveside services. As a funeral veteran, I considered all of the options for myself and my loved ones. This is my decision for me and my husband's decision for him.

A mausoleum would have been my other choice until I learned the disgusting secrets of this choice. You must be embalmed to be placed in a mausoleum crypt. After the family leaves, the casket is pulled back out later, usually that night. The casket is wrapped in what is called a "disaster pack" which consists of an absorbent bottom material and plastic wrap. There is also a slight downward trough in the back of each crypt that empties outside or into the ground. This is for the drainage of fluid. In short, after a short period of time, the gases in the casket once again have no where to go and the body will explode in the casket. We would go into the mausoleum early in the morning and check for fluid dripping down the front of the marble. We would always find some. That's what collects in the carpet in front of the crypts that attracts those little gnats (grave gnats) that will never go away. If embalming was really effective, then these bugs would die if they fed from the fluid. Yet they thrive. At night, bright bright lights are used to attract them into a box that is brought out. It looks like a giant bug zapper. The battle never ends. And large amounts of you just flow out the pipe in the back of the crypt until you finally become dried out. And that's the real truth. Never ever touch the carpet in a mausoleum or sit to pray on the floor. Every now and then, the morning would reveal a crypt cover blown completely off of a grave slot.

My aussie friend, your country is famous for the fact that almost all of the funeral workers there are women. It fascinates me. I'm hoping that this tradition shows more respect for the deceased. I have been told that this is the case there and that they are referred to as "the ladies in white" or something very much like that. America has the most bizarre and ridiculous customs of the civilized world. And it is an industry that uses pressure at a most vulnerable time to practically force people to conform. To dot every I and to cross every T. My advice is to buy your own wooden casket wholesale way ahead of time (assuming that you would know...lol) and find a cemetery that does not require a grave liner or vault. Most older cemeteries do not require one, but most new ones do because it makes it so much easier to mow and maintain because the graves never settle or have any natural differences occur over time. Most of America's beautiful old cemeteries are so beautiful because of the gently rolling natural areas that have occured with time because of this settling. But now the focus is on cost-cutting when it comes to maintanance, which also dictates that many cemeteries will only allow flat stones because they can mow around them. Let's face it, they are ugly and stark.

People with a heart usually have to leave this line of work. You begin to wonder if it is right to take people's money for things that don't exist. Don't get embalmed. It's plastic surgery for the dead. If you want it, do it now while you can enjoy it. Embalming does not improve the decomp situation. It only preserves the body for visitation, and many times doesn't even hold up well through this. Every day, we checked for ooze and numerous other offensive problems. With families spread out, this is becoming very common. We weren't even allowed (by LAW) to say that embalming preserved a human body. When asked, we were told to say "it will last just as long as you are here to think about it". That alone should get you shut down.

A friend will help you move, but a real friend will help you move the bodies. I know that some of this is disgusting, but people have a right to know that they are being swindled by major funeral homes that probably bought your local "hometown" funeral home too. They just don't advertise it and they kept the previous owner's well-known name on everything and no one knows the difference. But they treat a deceased person like a giant k-mart blue light special, taking from the bereaved and whatever they can from the departed. The next worse things besides body part stealing? Say an old couple has had a prepaid preplanned funeral written up for 20 years. Maybe they are childless or outlived everyone. Perfect. When the second one dies and no one is there to see, they put them in a pressed board box instead of the nice casket that was picked out. And the whole time, they have been getting rich off of the interest from these good peoples' money. Just the tip of the iceberg. Be very careful and don't be afraid to order the "kosher" way of no embalming and the wooden casket with sliding bottom. Then they know not to bother you because you've done your research and know the score. They're not going to lunch on me or my loved ones!

Sorry to offend but people need to know and many of us veterans are trying to spread the word. Maybe we feel guilty having knowledge that everyone has the right to have. I think that's it wrong to know something like this and not share it with all I can share it with. From the first day in mortuary school, you learn it's about the bottom line, not anything else. It helps if you are a sociopath who doesn't feel the pain of others.

Peace to you all and inform yourselves. Sorry for the length of this.

mho