Separating FACT from fiction - Page 4

SuperDave · #76 02-13-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by It's Not the Nanny

I'm so completely and utterly new to this forum.....found my way here via Caylee Anthony.....and remember years ago being intrigued by the death of JBR.

In recent months, it was celebrated all over the news that the new DNA testing proved the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.

Can someone catch me up on why that isn't true (obviously, or you wouldn't all be still discussing this).

Sure can, but this thread may not be the best place for it.

Quote:

I completely believed the media reports and finally cleared the R's in my head once that report had come out.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what some of us were afraid would happen: that people not familiar with the case would believe this stuff.

Quote:

I've closely been following the Caylee case and found a link here and was in awe that so many STILL don't believe the parents of JBR had nothing to do with this ... why??

How much time have you got?

Quote:

What in the new DNA testing and the Boulder police clearing of them isn't putting you all at ease?

Well, for one thing, it wasn't the Boulder Police who cleared them. It was the former DA who I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw an aircraft carrier.

It's Not the Nanny · #77 02-14-2009, 09:33 AM

Thanks, guys! I will definitely get the book/DVD and try to catch up.

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

SuperDave · #78 02-14-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by It's Not the Nanny

Thanks, guys! I will definitely get the book/DVD and try to catch up.

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

You have no idea.

calicocat · #79 02-15-2009, 08:09 PM

When John's golf bag was removed from the house, where was it taken? Did the police ever confiscate it? Supposing (my theory) the murder weapon was hidden inside the golf bag until it could be disposed of, wouldn't traces of JonBenet's DNA be found inside it?

And, what about the walk-in freezer? Was that ever inspected?

DeeDee249 · #80 02-15-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calicocat

When John's golf bag was removed from the house, where was it taken? Did the police ever confiscate it? Supposing (my theory) the murder weapon was hidden inside the golf bag until it could be disposed of, wouldn't traces of JonBenet's DNA be found inside it?

And, what about the walk-in freezer? Was that ever inspected?

John's golf bag was taken by Patsy's sister Pam to him at the Stine's, per his specific request. No one investigating the crime has ever searched the golf bag. When Aunt P. entered the R home, she was not even accompanied by police, who remained outside. She was allowed to impersonate a police officer by being given a police jacket to wear that identified her as an officer (so as not to attract attention, it was said). None of the Rs were searched before they left the home (wearing large winter coats, PR carrying a handbag- and lets not forget they went to stay elsewhere- they were carrying at least minimal luggage). This is why it is so ridiculous when we are asked why the rest of the cord, tape, panties, etc. were never found. The possibility that these things were taken from the home by a family member is very real, and actually very likely.

There was no walk-in freezer. There WAS a walk-in refrigerator in the kitchen. There was freezer in the basement, but it was a basic type and not a walk-in. While I would hope LE LOOKED in the freezer and the walk-in fridge, I doubt it was inspected from a forensics aspect. (JBR's hair, body fluids, fibers from what she was wearing when found,etc. would all indicate that she had been in there that night. JR was very quick to point out to police that HE had looked in the walk-in fridge, maybe as a way to explain his fingerprints, but to me this is as suspicious as the wiped-down batteries in the wiped-down flashlight. This was the family fridge. Why WOULDN'T his prints be on it? The same for the flashlight/batteries. This belonged to the home, though they tried to deny it at first, later admitting it was theirs only after being shown a photo of an open drawer which they said was where they kept the flashlight. They drawer did not have a flashlight in it. Then they admitted that this was probably their flashlight. I have never been able to think of a legitimate reason why the parent of a kidnapped (not just MISSING) child would look in a refrigerator for their child. Yes, kids can HIDE in a fridge. BUT if you HAD the note, and knew she was kidnapped, why would kidnappers put her in a fridge? They wouldn't. They wouldn't "hide" her anywhere in the house. They'd take her out. Even if they killed her or she died, they'd never leave the body in the house. They'd dump it somewhere else, because at that point, with no ransom possible, she'd be useless to kidnappers and simply be discarded.

Sandreala · #81 03-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

I will check AMES, but as I recall it and this is important, Fleet said he went into the room slightly but could not find a light switch and the room was so dark, he did not see anything. But why would he lock the door again. I think the lightswitch was to the side of the entrance. I have to check. John did not know that Fleet was down there before him.

Forgive me if this has been brought up - there are so many posts and I've been trying to go through them all. If it is fact that Fleet opened the door and couldn't find the light switch, so he closed the door and left - wouldn't that make it a fact that whoever carried JBR down to the basement had to have known where the lightswitch was, otherwise they wouldn't be able to see. So, would it then be fact that the person who carried JBR downstairs was someone familiar with the house?

I am sure there is an explanation, as I'm not as well versed on this case, but I'd love to know more facts on the above.

Sara

SuperDave · #82 03-13-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandreala

Forgive me if this has been brought up - there are so many posts and I've been trying to go through them all. If it is fact that Fleet opened the door and couldn't find the light switch, so he closed the door and left - wouldn't that make it a fact that whoever carried JBR down to the basement had to have known where the lightswitch was, otherwise they wouldn't be able to see. So, would it then be fact that the person who carried JBR downstairs was someone familiar with the house?

I am sure there is an explanation, as I'm not as well versed on this case, but I'd love to know more facts on the above.

Sara

Sandreala, you don't know the half of it! White said that JR looked into that same room, screamed, THEN turned on the light!

Sandreala · #83 03-13-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

Sandreala, you don't know the half of it! White said that JR looked into that same room, screamed, THEN turned on the light!

Oh jeez!

I definitely need to get caught back up in this. I've been spending so much time following the Casey Anthony case, but this case seems like there's a whole new wave of things to look into and discuss!!

Thanks, Super Dave

Sara

DeeDee249 · #84 03-13-2009, 08:46 PM

It was LE who told JR during a depo that FW told them he was in the basement early that morning (hours before he and JR "found" the body around 1 pm). JR then said he was unaware of FW's previous visit to the basement. FW told LE that he looked into the wineceller and didn't see JBR wrapped in the white blanket. He said he couldn't find the light switch. That was so surprise- it was in an odd place- not only was it outside the room, it was also in an unusual place on the wall- down about knee-level. (where no intruder would find it either) He was stunned that was where she was eventually found. He had said that there was no way he felt he could have missed seeing her, even without a light on in the room.
Tests were conducted by LE in the basement to see whether there was enough light coming in from the hall outside the wineceller to see in the room, and it was determined that there should have been enough light even if the wineceller was dark. After all, FW didn't walk around the basement in the dark- they ALL put lights on as they searched the house. It was dark at that hour of the morning, but the wineceller was dark all the time anyway because it had no windows.
I don't recall if tests were done with the white blanket (or at least any white blanket) still in the room. If it were me, I'd have tested the light in the room that way.

anne11 · #85 06-16-2009, 06:28 AM

Were any traces of the clean-up found, in the hand-basin or garbage?

DeeDee249 · #86 06-16-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne11

Were any traces of the clean-up found, in the hand-basin or garbage?

Not as far as we know. There was an odor of peroxide/bleach in JB's bathroom. Possibly to clean up blood?
The flashlight was wiped down, including the batteries. Other than that, LE did take apart the bathroom fixtures to check to see if anything incriminating had been flushed down the toilet. They also checked the garbage, including the bathrooms.

anne11 · #87 10-02-2009, 07:48 AM

Was JB's own DNA present in the nail scrapings, and also does anyone know why there were contusions on the temporal lobes (coup-contre coup?)
Thanks in advance

SuperDave · #88 10-02-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne11

Was JB's own DNA present in the nail scrapings,

Yep.

Quote:

and also does anyone know why there were contusions on the temporal lobes (coup-contre coup?)
Thanks in advance

I don't KNOW, but one possibility: the brain ricocheting due to the impact.

DeeDee249 · #89 10-02-2009, 11:01 PM

SD is correct. With an impact like that, forceful enough to crack open her skull, the brain does ricochet back and forth, slamming into the inside of her skull the same as it would in a car accident.

anne11 · #90 10-06-2009, 09:32 AM

I've been looking at the autopsy photos again

and you are right DeeDee there are no scratches near the ligature, but do you think that the garrotte applied twice as there seems to be 2 seperate marks, and the mark i thought was made by a thumb seems too angular, any ideas on that mark?

DeeDee249 · #91 10-06-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne11

I've been looking at the autopsy photos again

and you are right DeeDee there are no scratches near the ligature, but do you think that the garrotte applied twice as there seems to be 2 seperate marks, and the mark i thought was made by a thumb seems too angular, any ideas on that mark?

To me, it looks just like a single ligature furrow. The triangular shaped red abrasion seen under the ligature furrow is common in strangulation victims and is the result of blood pooling under the pressure point. This could be the spot where the strongest pressure was applied as the ligature was twisted. There are photos on http://www.crimeshots.com that show similar marks on the throat of a victim who was strangled with a scarf. Some here believe that JB was strangled with something else first, possibly even from someone twisting her red turtleneck. However, I do not believe this. I think if that had happened, the coroner would have known. If that had happened, the first strangulation would have left its own mark.

anne11 · #92 10-07-2009, 01:15 PM

Thanks again DeeDee

, i always had in my mind that the murderer held the ligature behind her, i think i was wrong.

DeeDee249 · #93 10-07-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne11

Thanks again DeeDee

, i always had in my mind that the murderer held the ligature behind her, i think i was wrong.

You weren't necessarily wrong. The knot was found tied in the back at the nape of her neck. Her hair and gold chain necklace were caught up in the ligature as it was twisted. The triangle red mark still could have been caused by the pressure from the strangulation. The ligature could have started out with the knot twisted in front. The red mark happens while the victim is still alive, so possibly the twisting started out in the front. Either way, that red mark is common in strangulation victims.

anne11 · #94 02-01-2010, 09:20 AM

Does anyone know when JAR moved out of the R's house and why.
Thanks in advance

anne11 · #95 06-21-2010, 08:14 AM

I've been revisiting ACR and just wondered if anyone has more information on the R's gardener.

MurriFlower · #96 06-21-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne11

I've been looking at the autopsy photos again

and you are right DeeDee there are no scratches near the ligature, but do you think that the garrotte applied twice as there seems to be 2 seperate marks, and the mark i thought was made by a thumb seems too angular, any ideas on that mark?

Yep, looks like the outline of the muzzle of a hand gun. Check out the picture I 'enhanced' in my album.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/pic...628839&thumb=1

WHITEFANG · #97 06-30-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

In recent months, it was celebrated all over the news that the new DNA testing proved the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.

Can someone catch me up on why that isn't true (obviously, or you wouldn't all be still discussing this).

Quote:

SuperDave You have no idea.

Talk about cream puff.
Better find some better questions to ask yourself.

WHITEFANG · #98 06-30-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

It was LE who told JR during a depo that FW told them he was in the basement early that morning (hours before he and JR "found" the body around 1 pm). JR then said he was unaware of FW's previous visit to the basement. FW told LE that he looked into the wineceller and didn't see JBR wrapped in the white blanket. He said he couldn't find the light switch. That was so surprise- it was in an odd place- not only was it outside the room, it was also in an unusual place on the wall- down about knee-level. (where no intruder would find it either) He was stunned that was where she was eventually found. He had said that there was no way he felt he could have missed seeing her, even without a light on in the room.
Tests were conducted by LE in the basement to see whether there was enough light coming in from the hall outside the wineceller to see in the room, and it was determined that there should have been enough light even if the wineceller was dark. After all, FW didn't walk around the basement in the dark- they ALL put lights on as they searched the house. It was dark at that hour of the morning, but the wineceller was dark all the time anyway because it had no windows.
I don't recall if tests were done with the white blanket (or at least any white blanket) still in the room. If it were me, I'd have tested the light in the room that way.

He may have used a flashlight.