Scientists Warn of Melting Ice in Arctic

[FACE-IT]

Scientists Warn of Melting Ice in Arctic

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Scientists on Monday painted a gloomy picture of the effects of global warming on the Arctic, warning of melting ocean ice, rising oceans, thawed permafrost and forests susceptible to bugs and fire. "A lot of the stories you read make it sound like there's uncertainty," said Jonathan Overpeck, a professor of geosciences at the University of Arizona. "There's not uncertainty."

The questions scientists continue to address, he said after his presentation at the Alaska Forum on the Environment, are how much of the warming is caused by humans and how drastic long-term effects will be. Deborah Williams, a conference organizer and former director of the Alaska Conservation Foundation, said Alaska is Ground Zero for observing the effects of global warming because so many natural phenomena are tied to ice and the repercussions of it melting.

http://tinyurl.com/djzlw

[michelle]

This kind of stuff scares me. All i need to do now is watch "The day after tomorrow" and i will really be scared....

[calus_3]

This is all geo-scientific poppycock!

The environment in this world is extraordinarily dynamic...it cleans itself. Yes, in areas of high concentration we can create smog, etc. and make the air unhealthy. Those things should be managed and fixed.

However, we are in a period of increased heat being thrown out by the SUN. The sun is hotter, we are hotter. It is a long term trend that will probably reverse itself in a few years and then the global warming freaks will say that we had so much warming that now it is causing global cooling. Am I to believe that we humans (okay, let's be specific AMERICANS....not one of these damned scientists seem to care about CHINA the most polluting nation in the history of the globe) caused so much global warming that we are causing the sun to be hotter? Not that more heat is being kept by the Earth's atmosphere by particulates, etc. but that we actually altered the SUN. A star so hot that nothing we could possibly ever create could remotely come close to approaching its viscinity without being burnt up? NOPE. Find a global warming nut and ask them...."what then, say you, about the fact that in recent years the Sun has become HOTTER?". Their blank stare and blabbering will tell you volumes about them and their "THEORIES". Gee, the sun is spitting out a lot more heat and the Earth gets warmer.....damn it must be those damned Americans again. Holy cow, they are altering the course of the Earth and man while feeding the entire planet and taking care of the globe.

If the Sun's solar radiation emitted was stable or declining (aka the heat from the sun) and the Earth's temperature was still going up...I might buy into this global warming garbage. But folks, it is a FRAUD. It doesn't exist.

If you drill 200 feet into the polar caps, you will see layers of ice much like tree rings that go back for eons. There are thick layers indicating that some years were hotter than others and some thick indicating colder years.

The truth about global warming is that it is a FAKE scientific theory meant solely and completely to weaken America through restrictive environmental restrictions and excessive costs. There are those who want a world tax on America to pay for global warming reparations. Again, not once do you hear about CHINA when muttering Global warming. It's those damned Americans I tell you. I wonder how many people have gone to their graves with their last world being "those damned Americans".....well, lately a lot of Al qaeda terrorists!

Cal

[JBean]

Originally Posted by calus_3

This is all geo-scientific poppycock!

The environment in this world is extraordinarily dynamic...it cleans itself. Yes, in areas of high concentration we can create smog, etc. and make the air unhealthy. Those things should be managed and fixed.

However, we are in a period of increased heat being thrown out by the SUN. The sun is hotter, we are hotter. It is a long term trend that will probably reverse itself in a few years and then the global warming freaks will say that we had so much warming that now it is causing global cooling. Am I to believe that we humans (okay, let's be specific AMERICANS....not one of these damned scientists seem to care about CHINA the most polluting nation in the history of the globe) caused so much global warming that we are causing the sun to be hotter? Not that more heat is being kept by the Earth's atmosphere by particulates, etc. but that we actually altered the SUN. A star so hot that nothing we could possibly ever create could remotely come close to approaching its viscinity without being burnt up? NOPE. Find a global warming nut and ask them...."what then, say you, about the fact that in recent years the Sun has become HOTTER?". Their blank stare and blabbering will tell you volumes about them and their "THEORIES". Gee, the sun is spitting out a lot more heat and the Earth gets warmer.....damn it must be those damned Americans again. Holy cow, they are altering the course of the Earth and man while feeding the entire planet and taking care of the globe.

If the Sun's solar radiation emitted was stable or declining (aka the heat from the sun) and the Earth's temperature was still going up...I might buy into this global warming garbage. But folks, it is a FRAUD. It doesn't exist.

If you drill 200 feet into the polar caps, you will see layers of ice much like tree rings that go back for eons. There are thick layers indicating that some years were hotter than others and some thick indicating colder years.

The truth about global warming is that it is a FAKE scientific theory meant solely and completely to weaken America through restrictive environmental restrictions and excessive costs. There are those who want a world tax on America to pay for global warming reparations. Again, not once do you hear about CHINA when muttering Global warming. It's those damned Americans I tell you. I wonder how many people have gone to their graves with their last world being "those damned Americans".....well, lately a lot of Al qaeda terrorists!

Cal

Hi Cal and great post.

[calus_3]

I said I was going to stop this week and actually work....but everytime I try to stop, they DRAG me back in.

Cal

[close_enough]

Would that the rise and fall of George C. Deutsch, 24, a NASA political appointee, could become a metaphor - one taken all the way to its logical conclusion - for the Bush administration's policies on global warming. Deutsch has for months embodied the White House's earth-is-flat take on why the earth is warming, with consequences from melting glaciers to freak weather.

Working in NASA's public relations, he tried to muzzle a renowned climate scientist who - like serious scientists the world over - warns that global warming is a threat requiring government intervention to curb emissions from cars, factories and more.

...good read, imo....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200...A2BHNlYwM3NDI-

[calus_3]

Originally Posted by close_enough

Would that the rise and fall of George C. Deutsch, 24, a NASA political appointee, could become a metaphor - one taken all the way to its logical conclusion - for the Bush administration's policies on global warming. Deutsch has for months embodied the White House's earth-is-flat take on why the earth is warming, with consequences from melting glaciers to freak weather.

Working in NASA's public relations, he tried to muzzle a renowned climate scientist who - like serious scientists the world over - warns that global warming is a threat requiring government intervention to curb emissions from cars, factories and more.

...good read, imo....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200...A2BHNlYwM3NDI-

Close,

Unlike many spouting off about this topic, I have read many articles on the topic. I don't deny the fact of global warming and that the Earth is experiencing warmer seasons over the past few years.

What I am arguing is the cause.

We get 100% of our Earth's heat from the SUN, Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Tea Leoni and Gwen Stefani. Now these young ladies' careers have been continuously and predictably increases such that their influence can be backed out of the equation. That leaves the SUN. The SUN has been throwing out significantly more heat over the past few years. When the sun throws out more heat, the Earth is warmer.

Until someone can take a 200 foot ice core sample from the poles and explain to me why there are layers of ice representing different years and those are generally thicker for a few years and then thinner for a few years, I am not buying this global warming nonsense.

We live in a cyclical world.....how else could you explain bell bottoms TWICE? There are ups and downs in tides, there are seasons, there are periods of increased and decreased storm activities. There are periods of relative warming and cooling as well.

Cal

[close_enough]

it's hard for me to understand how you can dismiss global warming/it's causes as "nonsense/poppycock", but i'm not all that surprised anymore, actually....

[calus_3]

Ouch, that hurts.....

I don't see how you can fail to find your butt with both hands! Explain to me how you expect the Earth to remain a constant temperature or decrease temperature when our sole source of heat and warmth has been experiencing intensified heat.

You guys are right on about the warming, but a stone wrong about the cause.

Cal

[close_enough]

Originally Posted by calus_3

Ouch, that hurts.....

I don't see how you can fail to find your butt with both hands! Explain to me how you expect the Earth to remain a constant temperature or decrease temperature when our sole source of heat and warmth has been experiencing intensified heat.

You guys are right on about the warming, but a stone wrong about the cause.

Cal

look, i'm no scientist, but IMO many, if not all, scientists have clearly determined the cause....you're so funny

[FACE-IT]

60 minutes had a great segment on "Global Warming" this evening.

Stranger than fiction, did anyone know that the Bush administration funds a very high priced on-going study on global warming, and yet the adminisitration irefuses to do anything about global warming, which they know is a reality.

The main speaker was Dr. Bob Curell (sp?), who headed a team of 300 scientists, from 80 different countries, on a five year study. They have indisputable evidence that we are creating the global warming. They took ice cores all over the Arctic, and they said the cores went back 500,000 years, and they could tell the C02 levels,temperatures, and everything about the climate, and they said the Arctic hasn't seen temperatures like this for many 1,000's of years. Greenland, which has the largest ice sheet in the world, has shrunk by about 25% in the last 26 years. They said the Arctic ice pack will be gone within this century, and the polar bear population is already nose-diving because the bears need ice to hunt on They said the size of the females have dropped 55 lbs. in the last 15 years, while the population dropped 17%.

And---they also said that the hurricanes, in the Atlantic, and the Pacidic, will continue to get worse.

And within this century the oceans will be 3 feet deeper.

[Becba]

Apparently Michael Chriton doea not agree with global warming. He has put in his last book that we are going thru another climate fluctuation like the ice age.

No matter who you beleive the weather is getting dangerous and we should look at preparing for ourselves and neighbors.
Whether it is a natural occurance or due to pollution everyone agrees it is coming.
With all the terrorist threats and this I think we should all stock up on supplies and consider what we might need for fluctuating temperatures.
I live in FL. I have to prepair for winds...which is different for prepairing for sea surge. I have to prepare for a flood, from the sea as I live so close to it.
New Orleans taught me to put supplies in my attic and put a darn ax there to get out with.

[FACE-IT]

Originally Posted by Becba

Apparently Michael Chriton doea not agree with global warming. He has put in his last book that we are going thru another climate fluctuation like the ice age.

No matter who you beleive the weather is getting dangerous and we should look at preparing for ourselves and neighbors.
Whether it is a natural occurance or due to pollution everyone agrees it is coming.
With all the terrorist threats and this I think we should all stock up on supplies and consider what we might need for fluctuating temperatures.
I live in FL. I have to prepair for winds...which is different for prepairing for sea surge. I have to prepare for a flood, from the sea as I live so close to it.
New Orleans taught me to put supplies in my attic and put a darn ax there to get out with.

I would put a large crowbar in the atic; it would be a good tool for getting through a roof.

I think they see the Artic rapidly increasing in temperature, twice as fast as our temperature increase. CO2 levels are the highest they have ever been seen, and that is from an ice core that goes back 500,000 years.

[calus_3]

Originally Posted by Becba

New Orleans taught me to put supplies in my attic and put a darn ax there to get out with.

Well, that's certainly ONE possibility. However, after New Orleans, there was a new approach tried by many--get out of the house before the water reaches the eaves!

Cal

[Maybe So]

Originally Posted by calus_3

This is all geo-scientific poppycock!

The environment in this world is extraordinarily dynamic...it cleans itself. Yes, in areas of high concentration we can create smog, etc. and make the air unhealthy. Those things should be managed and fixed.

However, we are in a period of increased heat being thrown out by the SUN. The sun is hotter, we are hotter. It is a long term trend that will probably reverse itself in a few years and then the global warming freaks will say that we had so much warming that now it is causing global cooling. Am I to believe that we humans (okay, let's be specific AMERICANS....not one of these damned scientists seem to care about CHINA the most polluting nation in the history of the globe) caused so much global warming that we are causing the sun to be hotter? Not that more heat is being kept by the Earth's atmosphere by particulates, etc. but that we actually altered the SUN. A star so hot that nothing we could possibly ever create could remotely come close to approaching its viscinity without being burnt up? NOPE. Find a global warming nut and ask them...."what then, say you, about the fact that in recent years the Sun has become HOTTER?". Their blank stare and blabbering will tell you volumes about them and their "THEORIES". Gee, the sun is spitting out a lot more heat and the Earth gets warmer.....damn it must be those damned Americans again. Holy cow, they are altering the course of the Earth and man while feeding the entire planet and taking care of the globe.

If the Sun's solar radiation emitted was stable or declining (aka the heat from the sun) and the Earth's temperature was still going up...I might buy into this global warming garbage. But folks, it is a FRAUD. It doesn't exist.

If you drill 200 feet into the polar caps, you will see layers of ice much like tree rings that go back for eons. There are thick layers indicating that some years were hotter than others and some thick indicating colder years.

The truth about global warming is that it is a FAKE scientific theory meant solely and completely to weaken America through restrictive environmental restrictions and excessive costs. There are those who want a world tax on America to pay for global warming reparations. Again, not once do you hear about CHINA when muttering Global warming. It's those damned Americans I tell you. I wonder how many people have gone to their graves with their last world being "those damned Americans".....well, lately a lot of Al qaeda terrorists!

Cal

I agree with you.

At one time glaciers covered large areas of the world and then all that ice melted and the glaciers receded. Did the cave men cause this with their cooking fires? Too much gas emmissions from the Mastadon population?

The world has been warming (and cooling again) ever since the ice age.....it's the natural cycle of the planet.

In fact there have been times when the planet was warmer than it is now...before cars and sources of major pollution even existed...why?

I don't believe we have as much effect on the climate as some would have us believe.

The world may be getting warmer yet they have had snowfall and cold weather in places this year that never get snow.

The world climate changes, it always has. Yes the changes are real and many of them harmful.... but I believe that they would happen and will happen regardless.

This is not to say that I don't think we need to stop emmissions and polutions of all kinds on land, water and the atmosphere.

I simply don't think that we are ultimately in control of the weather or have a tremendous effect on it.

A couple of articles of interest.

http://www.look-to-the-skies.com/new_page_3.htm

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...357366,00.html

http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

[FACE-IT]

CU study slakes thirst for Antarctic ice-melt data

The Antarctic ice sheet is losing 36 cubic miles of ice a year - equal to 264 billion gallons of water, enough to satisfy U.S. water consumption for three months, say two University of Colorado at Boulder researchers.

"For the first time, we can come up with a number and say the Antarctic ice sheet is losing significant mass and contributing to a rising sea level," said CU's Isabella Velicogna, principal author of the study, published Thursday in the online issue of Science Express.

Antarctica contains 70 percent of Earth's fresh-water resources. The study is the first to quantify the decline of the ice sheet - which is twice as large as Australia - due to global warming. In the past, scientists have only been able to estimate changes in parts of the ice sheet. The melting ice is equivalent to a four-tenths of a millimeter rise in global sea levels annually.

"I can't tell you New York City will be underwater in so many years, but you want to keep track of it," said John Wahr, a CU physics professor who was co-author of the study. "If glacial discharge into the ocean accelerates, sea level could rise faster."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_3564061?source=rss

[luckyevan93]

Good news and bad news....


Good news about the arctic floes melting; seal hunters will no longer be able to torture and kill baby seals.

Bad news; polar bears will have to buy a jon boat to go out hunting in since the floes they usually use will be history.

just my usual demented thinking and sense of (?) bizarro humor.

~Lucky~

[Cypros]

It is true that the earth's climate has fluctuated over its billions of years of existence. There is nothing that we as humans can do to control Mother Nature. However, it is very important to understand the relationship between the earth's climate and human existence. The last major worldwide change was the end of the Ice Ages, approximately 12,000 years ago. Up until that point ALL human populations across the globe were hunter-gatherers. What happened at the end of the Ice Ages? The glaciers melted, the seas rose, and all regions of the world experienced environmental changes -- warmer, drier or wetter (humid) -- which brought about new plant and animals species. The big game herds upon which most of the humans depended migrated far north. The humans HAD TO ADAPT to this changing environment! What did they do?? They learned to PRODUCE their own food. They grew crops and domesticated animals. This was a MAJOR lifestyle change which triggered the development of civilizations (over several thousand years). While there were many positives in this chain of events, there are also many negatives. Humans living in larger and larger populations, producing more and more food for themselves and for surplus to trade for materials of growing demand -- copper, tin, stone, wood, etc. Forests were deforested to clear land for farming, to construct more and more structures, to burn wood for fuel for smelting ores and for heat. The scale of human impact on the environment during the Neolithic period has increased exponentially over the last several thousand years. We have constructed massive concrete and steel metropolises, paved roads, highways and megamall parking lots. These asphalt surfaces absord the heat and represent millions of acres of lost trees. Then there are all of the chemicals we pump into the waters and the air. While the earth has experienced prior dramatic climate changes, HUMAN CIVILIZATION HAS NOT! Wherever you stand on the CAUSE, humans will HAVE TO ADAPT to the resulting changes. We cannot expect lifestyles to remain the same. There will be dramatic changes along the coastlines and riverways. Probably drought in some regions and increased rain in others. The VERY MINIMAL we should be doing as inhabitants of this earth is to acknowledge the impending changes and do anything possible to prepare. Limiting our contributions to the climate changes will not stop Mother Nature but would lessen the blow. We will have to adjust to a new lifestyle so we might as well begin now with research, education and conservation -- and ACTION!

P.S. Personally I believe that Global Warming is a natural phenomenon that is being exacerbated by humans living beyond the available natural resources and abusing the earth with excessive deforestation and all kinds of pollutants.

[Cypros]

This website has an interactive map that illustrates the local consequences of global warming as documented up until 1999. the "New Points" link provides a long list of documented evidence for Global Warming since 1999.

http://www.climatehotmap.org/index.html

[Becba]

Originally Posted by calus_3

Well, that's certainly ONE possibility. However, after New Orleans, there was a new approach tried by many--get out of the house before the water reaches the eaves!

Cal

How cute. Guess you would be suprised that I believe the earth goes thru cycles of cold and heat as it has done forever. Global warming is a natural occurance. Just like the ice age set in after a tropical enviroment. We will see trends of what we feel is extreme variations but we aren't going to burn up or freeze to death. Just have to pay more for fuel costs.

[Marthatex]

I believe science. Especially scientists that are respected and that do good research. They spend many hours and years observing, making records and coming to conclusions. If alot of scientists concur, and they don't have some kind of personal agenda (like their report has to come out a certain way to please someone or their funders), then I tend to believe the research.

I think China and other industrial countries should have to join in with us on environmental initiatives or agreements - but since we lead the world and have more resources than many, we should be leading the world and setting down the plan to combat global warming and pollution.

[Cypros]

On a related note....

Death of the world's rivers
Disaster warning from UN as investigation reveals half of the planet's 500 biggest rivers are seriously depleted or polluted

The world's great rivers are drying up at an alarming rate, with devastating consequences for humanity, animals and the future of the planet.

The Independent on Sunday can today reveal that more than half the world's 500 mightiest rivers have been seriously depleted. Some have been reduced to a trickle in what the United Nations will this week warn is a "disaster in the making".

From the Nile to China's Yellow River, some of the world's great water systems are now under such pressure that they often fail to deposit their water in the ocean or are interrupted in the course to the sea, with grave consequences for the planet.

Adding to the disaster, all of the 20 longer rivers are being disrupted by big dams. One-fifth of all freshwater fish species either face extinction or are already extinct.

The Nile and Pakistan's Indus are greatly reduced by the time they reach the sea. Some, such as the Colorado and China's Yellow River, now rarely reach the ocean at all. Others, such as the Jordan and the Rio Grande on the US-Mexico border, are dry for much of their length.

Even in Britain, a quarter of the country's 160 chalk rivers and steams - such as the Kennet in Wiltshire, the Darent in Kent, and the Wylye in Wiltshire - are running out of water because too much is being abstracted for homes, industry and agriculture.

This week an influential UN report will officially warn the world's governments of an "alarming deterioration" in the planet's rivers, lakes and other freshwater systems. Klaus Toepfer, the executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme, told the IoS yesterday that the state of the world's rivers is "a disaster in the making".

The UN's triennial World Water Development Report, compiled for an international conference in Mexico City which opens on Thursday, warns that "we have hugely changed the natural order of rivers worldwide", mainly through giant dams and global warming. Some 45,000 big dams now block the world's rivers, trapping 15 per cent of all the water that used to flow from the land to the sea. Reservoirs now cover almost 1 per cent of land surface.

The UN report says that demand for them "will continue to increase", but recommends that they should be barred from the world's remaining, undammed "free-flowing" rivers.

The United States has dismantled 465 dams in recent years, mainly for environmental reasons. But last week, in an abrupt U-turn, it signalled that it was about to embark on its biggest dam-building campaign in decades, when the Washington State legislature passed a bill to allow the federal government to build a series of dams on the Columbia, the West's largest river.

Global warming is endangering even the rivers that have largely escaped damming.

The relatively untamed Amazon was hit by its most serious drought on record last autumn. And salmon are dying in Alaska's Yukon River - the world's longest undammed watercourse - because its waters are getting too hot.

http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...icle350785.ece

[Marthatex]

So are there some who will say the pollution of rivers is a natural occurence also?

"Earth in the Balance" - which way will we choose to go in the next decades? The earth, our children and grandchildrens' futures will be decided by our decisions and commitment to those decisions and sacrifices.

[Maybe So]

Originally Posted by Marthatex

I believe science. Especially scientists that are respected and that do good research. They spend many hours and years observing, making records and coming to conclusions. If alot of scientists concur, and they don't have some kind of personal agenda (like their report has to come out a certain way to please someone or their funders), then I tend to believe the research.

I think China and other industrial countries should have to join in with us on environmental initiatives or agreements - but since we lead the world and have more resources than many, we should be leading the world and setting down the plan to combat global warming and pollution.

http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/Medieval...le_Ice_age.htm

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=6


http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

[GonzoReiter]

...And some of them were fools

Who were making plans and thinking of the future
With the energy of the innocent
They were gathering the tools
They would need to make their journey back to nature

While the sand slipped through the opening
And their hands reached for the golden ring
With their hearts they turned to each other`s heart for refuge
In the troubled years that came before the deluge...

Jackson Browne