Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Missing!! > Missing but not forgotten Discussion > Rose Cole

Notices

Rose Cole Missing from Synanon Facility, Oakland, CA 1972. Rose is listed as a runaway - but would she still be in hiding after all these years?


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #276  
Old 04-06-2006, 06:58 PM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
You might try contacting Mrs. Dederich but from what I've read in the past few weeks on the internet, she is still very steeped in their beliefs and would probably be very guarded (so unlike all of the othe Synanites!) about anything smacking of a missing person.
  #277  
Old 04-06-2006, 06:59 PM
Shadow205 Shadow205 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WV
Posts: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by PonderingThings
Shadow205 I would normally agree with you about the eye color BUT in this case the detective specifically mentioned the deep violet color of her eyes in an article I read... don't think its a typo
It does say on the doenetwork that the Jane Doe has "deep blue eyes".

Everythingelse looked good enough to check further though.
__________________
Retired 08/03/03
  #278  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:09 PM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
DOA Cop just signed on... maybe he can help us re the "deep blue eyes". And also give us his impression of the Florida Jane Doe in general.
  #279  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:35 PM
rainbow rainbow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 128
Reply from classmates

From: C H
To:
Sent:
April 06, 2006 04:21:44 PM Subject:
RE: Synanon runaway


Kelley: I would gladly help you, if I could; however, I honestly don't remember Rose. In 1972-73 Synanon was very large and I had been there for 4 or 5 years at that point, so might not have had anything to do with her. Sorry. Good luck in your search.
Chris



I edited his name because I wasn't sure if I could post it or not.
  #280  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:58 PM
d.o.a. cop d.o.a. cop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7
All in the eyes?

Jane Doe (CA 1979) had blue eyes (no doubting that). This was documented by two different parties, the scene investigator and again by the pathologist who conducted the examination. Her right eye was burned, but the left was completely intact

I communicated the folllowing with Mrs. Cole as well, and I think it's a good nugget to keep in your memory banks.

The smallest things that are typically overlooked can be the biggest things in an investigation like this. Something as small as an ear lobe (lobule) can just about rule in or out a potential match.

How?

Well, is it pierced, is the lobule fused or detatched - which is a known herditary trait - do the brothers, sisters or parents have the same characteristi? - There's a guy in Canada (Don't quote me on location) that has been conducting a study for decades on human "ear-prints." His conclusion was that ear-print is just as much a one-of-kind as a fingerprint. He's even introduced these findings in court for ear-prints left behind by burgalars who placed their ear / face up to glass to peer into their mark.

So that said, if jane or john doe has an obvious fused or free lobule and your missing person is the opposite - it's a pretty fair rule out.

Eye color is difficult - as there are factors that can effect what you see at a post-mortem examination; decomposition, excessive heat, fire, dependant lividity can really make it difficult as well because the eye becomes so conjested and tardeau spots start to appear.

Jane Doe (CA 1979) was known to be alive the night before - can't reveal why - but I can say that the side of her face that was intact was preserved enough that a false eye-color was not an issue.

Another thing I've noted over the years while dealing with Cold Case Files (I've solved four and during my tour have had only one active Doe case go unidentified - Jane Doe / Castro Valley, CA) is that much older cases seem to have a lot of "Approximation" in the height and weight department. I don't believe that the facility where Jane Doe (CA 1979) had her autopsy in 1979 had a scale big enough to measure a human on a gurney. That said - don't let height and weight send you off a trail too soon. Forensic Science is amazing, but science & the theories behind it are only as good as the humans who derived and dreamed them up - and we, humans, are all capable of being wrong. Case in point: Hawkins & his Black Hole theory were written in stone for the longest time - but now it's pretty much been debunked.

This all food for thought. I could babble for days and shut this site down with the boring factor - but I'll save you the pain.

You are all very dedicated volunteers - bravo to all of you!
The Following User Says Thank You to d.o.a. cop For This Useful Post:
  #281  
Old 04-06-2006, 08:03 PM
IsabelaPR IsabelaPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 76
Roes's Eyes ~ Close up

her eyes are green. . .maybe a little light blue.

Her mom had blue eyes like Jesse, her dad's eyes were brown. . .

Here I am looking to the family picture, and everyone in the living room ears. They are looking at me like I am crazy

Rose's pictures have ears covered but based on Jesse, Little Jess and her parents hears I think she had the non-attached earlobe

I could be very wrong about this, will look at some more pictures of her relatives. . .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rose eyes.jpg (12.5 KB, 134 views)
  #282  
Old 04-06-2006, 08:15 PM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
This all food for thought. I could babble for days and shut this site down with the boring factor - but I'll save you the pain.
Actually, I find it pretty fascinating... but only from far away. I couldn't do the work that you do where you see the bodies in various stages of decomp.

I do understand what you mean about ear marks, etc. Our family has that... a single bump on one ear, and always just one ear, not both. It's probably been running through our family for generations.

Darrell, if you have a moment, could you take a look at the Jane Doe listed below. She was found in Florida in 1973 and is said to have "deep blue eyes". Rose's SIL says "her eyes are green... maybe a little light blue". Other than the eye color, there are many very good similiarities. Will you give us your thoughts on the discrepancy in eye color and also your thoughts on the possibility of a match with Rose? Thanks.

http://doenetwork.us/cases/381uffl.html
  #283  
Old 04-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Goody Goody is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofTexas
Actually, I find it pretty fascinating... but only from far away. I couldn't do the work that you do where you see the bodies in various stages of decomp.

I do understand what you mean about ear marks, etc. Our family has that... a single bump on one ear, and always just one ear, not both. It's probably been running through our family for generations.

Darrell, if you have a moment, could you take a look at the Jane Doe listed below. She was found in Florida in 1973 and is said to have "deep blue eyes". Rose's SIL says "her eyes are green... maybe a little light blue". Other than the eye color, there are many very good similiarities. Will you give us your thoughts on the discrepancy in eye color and also your thoughts on the possibility of a match with Rose? Thanks.

http://doenetwork.us/cases/381uffl.html
Is it possible she had hazel eyes? They change colors, from brown to blue to green to gray even,depending on the person and very often what they are wearing. My ex had hazel eyes until the day he died in his 60s.
__________________

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
__________________
This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.
  #284  
Old 04-06-2006, 11:03 PM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
Goody, yes, actually, Rose's SIL said she had green/hazel eyes. I've always heard hazel eyes could change colors but am not sure how many colors they can change into.
  #285  
Old 04-06-2006, 11:34 PM
Goody Goody is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofTexas
Goody, yes, actually, Rose's SIL said she had green/hazel eyes. I've always heard hazel eyes could change colors but am not sure how many colors they can change into.
My son's change from light brown to grey to light blue or green. My ex's were either blue or brown most of the time, but my son says he saw them like a violet even sometimes. So it depends on the person, probably the family genes.
__________________

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
__________________
This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.
  #286  
Old 04-07-2006, 02:55 AM
IsabelaPR IsabelaPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 76
Overlay of Jane Doe (CA)

I need a quick tutorial on how to add a picture to a post.
I was trying to add a close up of the eyes in my previous e-mail. . .didn't work out.
I posted the pictures in the blog.
Also, Darrel send me an overlay of Jane Doe & Rose.

Copy & Paste url in address bar

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannet...6NLrEBbcEGxACI
Attached Images
File Type: jpg overlay_of_Rose_3.jpg (145.6 KB, 130 views)
  #287  
Old 04-07-2006, 08:25 AM
Shadow205 Shadow205 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WV
Posts: 3,651
Isabela, You can find directions for posting pictures here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53
__________________
Retired 08/03/03
  #288  
Old 04-07-2006, 08:27 AM
christine2448's Avatar
christine2448 christine2448 is offline
Retired WS Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsabelaPR
I need a quick tutorial on how to add a picture to a post.
I was trying to add a close up of the eyes in my previous e-mail. . .didn't work out.
I posted the pictures in the blog.
Also, Darrel send me an overlay of Jane Doe & Rose.

Copy & Paste url in address bar

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannet...6NLrEBbcEGxACI
Has someone explained how to do pics to you yet?

Open an account at a place like www.photobucket.com it's free...upload your pictures there.....under the picture, once you upload it there are 3 options..copy and paste the 3rd (IMG) one into your post here at WS then hit preview and you should see the picture in your post.

__________________

  #289  
Old 04-07-2006, 08:34 AM
christine2448's Avatar
christine2448 christine2448 is offline
Retired WS Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,537
Isabela, great work on those pics, did you do those overlays. What a comparison.
__________________

  #290  
Old 04-07-2006, 10:22 AM
Shadow205 Shadow205 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WV
Posts: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by christine2448
Isabela, great work on those pics, did you do those overlays. What a comparison.
d.o.a. cop did the photo's. So what is everyones opinion on them?
__________________
Retired 08/03/03
  #291  
Old 04-07-2006, 10:26 AM
Hollow Hollow is offline
Former member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,357
I think it looks like the same excact person. Did anyone contact LE yet ???
  #292  
Old 04-07-2006, 10:37 AM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
d.o.a. cop did the photo's. So what is everyones opinion on them?
I think there is a striking similarity. Some important features that DOA mentioned, like differences in ears, are hidden by hair, but the things we can see look very similar. Most of all, I'm impressed with the expertise and technology that allowed the overlays to be done. Hats off to DOA!
  #293  
Old 04-07-2006, 10:48 AM
Shadow205 Shadow205 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WV
Posts: 3,651
Well thanks to d.o.a.cop, Claire has been located. He sent info to Isabela last night that proved to be her. Brenda(Stepsister to Rose) spoke with Ann(Claires sister) this morning. She gave her Claires phone number. Unfortunately she was not home when Brenda called her so she left a message. Hopefully she will talk to her today.
__________________
Retired 08/03/03
The Following User Says Thank You to Shadow205 For This Useful Post:
  #294  
Old 04-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Shadow205 Shadow205 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WV
Posts: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofTexas
I think there is a striking similarity. Some important features that DOA mentioned, like differences in ears, are hidden by hair, but the things we can see look very similar. Most of all, I'm impressed with the expertise and technology that allowed the overlays to be done. Hats off to DOA!
Those are the DOA's that were located in CA & FL right?
__________________
Retired 08/03/03
  #295  
Old 04-07-2006, 11:27 AM
itsreenw itsreenw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollow
I think it looks like the same excact person. Did anyone contact LE yet ???
My heart sank when I saw those pics just now. I think that's our Rose.
  #296  
Old 04-07-2006, 11:31 AM
itsreenw itsreenw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow205
Well thanks to d.o.a.cop, Claire has been located. He sent info to Isabela last night that proved to be her. Brenda(Stepsister to Rose) spoke with Ann(Claires sister) this morning. She gave her Claires phone number. Unfortunately she was not home when Brenda called her so she left a message. Hopefully she will talk to her today.
Way to go DOA, I was beginning to think Claire didn't exist-I couldn't find her anywhere.

I think Jane Doe is Rose, but if it isn't, I just received a reply from a reporter at the San Francisco Chronicle who is going to look into the case when he returns from his assignment in Iraq. He didn't say when he'd be returning
  #297  
Old 04-07-2006, 11:37 AM
itsreenw itsreenw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollow
I think it looks like the same excact person. Did anyone contact LE yet ???
Just repeating Hollow's question-I thiink Isabela should call since she is related to Rose. I am sooo hoping this is a lookalike. I would hate for Rose to have died feeling so alone and unloved.
  #298  
Old 04-07-2006, 11:41 AM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
Wow, I was only gone an hour and so many new developments!

I literally almost cried when I read that DOA found Claire, and that efforts have been made to contact her. That is a huge breakthrough on behalf of Rose, and I thank you so much, DOA, for utilizing whatever databases you have to locate her. Obviously, after so many years, Claire may not be able to remember anything significant, but she is our only hope at present for a living person who was in contact with Rose during 72-73. Again, DOA, thank you.

Itsreenw, that is so wonderful that the reporter will contact you upon his return from Iraq. It just floors me that technology is so advanced these days that we can communicate almost instantly with someone in Iraq.

Shadow, my comments re the Jane Doe were based on the Jane Doe in Florida. I think DOA pretty much ruled out Jane Doe California yesterday, so I'm now focusing exclusively on Jane Doe Florida.

All of you are such amazing posters and people. So many of you have invested so many hours and hours of your own time doing research and following up on leads and tracking down Jane Does. I hope one day our collective efforts will help find the answer to what happened to Rose. And a tiny part of me still hopes that maybe, just maybe, she is alive somewhere. That tiny light grows dimmer by the day, but I haven't given up on it yet.
  #299  
Old 04-07-2006, 12:29 PM
christine2448's Avatar
christine2448 christine2448 is offline
Retired WS Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow205
Well thanks to d.o.a.cop, Claire has been located. He sent info to Isabela last night that proved to be her. Brenda(Stepsister to Rose) spoke with Ann(Claires sister) this morning. She gave her Claires phone number. Unfortunately she was not home when Brenda called her so she left a message. Hopefully she will talk to her today.
__________________

  #300  
Old 04-07-2006, 12:38 PM
christine2448's Avatar
christine2448 christine2448 is offline
Retired WS Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.o.a. cop
Jane Doe (CA 1979) had blue eyes (no doubting that). This was documented by two different parties, the scene investigator and again by the pathologist who conducted the examination. Her right eye was burned, but the left was completely intact

I communicated the folllowing with Mrs. Cole as well, and I think it's a good nugget to keep in your memory banks.

The smallest things that are typically overlooked can be the biggest things in an investigation like this. Something as small as an ear lobe (lobule) can just about rule in or out a potential match.

How?

Well, is it pierced, is the lobule fused or detatched - which is a known herditary trait - do the brothers, sisters or parents have the same characteristi? - There's a guy in Canada (Don't quote me on location) that has been conducting a study for decades on human "ear-prints." His conclusion was that ear-print is just as much a one-of-kind as a fingerprint. He's even introduced these findings in court for ear-prints left behind by burgalars who placed their ear / face up to glass to peer into their mark.

So that said, if jane or john doe has an obvious fused or free lobule and your missing person is the opposite - it's a pretty fair rule out.

Eye color is difficult - as there are factors that can effect what you see at a post-mortem examination; decomposition, excessive heat, fire, dependant lividity can really make it difficult as well because the eye becomes so conjested and tardeau spots start to appear.

Jane Doe (CA 1979) was known to be alive the night before - can't reveal why - but I can say that the side of her face that was intact was preserved enough that a false eye-color was not an issue.

Another thing I've noted over the years while dealing with Cold Case Files (I've solved four and during my tour have had only one active Doe case go unidentified - Jane Doe / Castro Valley, CA) is that much older cases seem to have a lot of "Approximation" in the height and weight department. I don't believe that the facility where Jane Doe (CA 1979) had her autopsy in 1979 had a scale big enough to measure a human on a gurney. That said - don't let height and weight send you off a trail too soon. Forensic Science is amazing, but science & the theories behind it are only as good as the humans who derived and dreamed them up - and we, humans, are all capable of being wrong. Case in point: Hawkins & his Black Hole theory were written in stone for the longest time - but now it's pretty much been debunked.

This all food for thought. I could babble for days and shut this site down with the boring factor - but I'll save you the pain.

You are all very dedicated volunteers - bravo to all of you!
Boring????? Paaaaaaleeeeeeeze. I could read your postings for days....this is all so fasincating....you would be amazed to learn how many of us WSers here are interested in 'this side' of the stories...and many many on here are searching for missing and spending hours and hours staring at Jane Does. To read about what is going on in your world is extrememly interesting and educational. IMO

So, DOA, you have ruled out the Jane Doe we all thought could be her? Am I understand that right?

I hope it is NOT her, because of the way she died. This would hurt me deeply. I want to keep looking and am hoping this is not her, maybe she is alive.....like HOT said, sometimes it is hard to hope, but we must move on if this is not her, either she is alive somewhere or her remains are somewhere and we can maybe figure this out if we keep working on it.
__________________

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!