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Darlie Routier Darlie Routier is on death row, convicted of murdering her two sons. Darlie claims that an intruder attacked her and the boys and is responsible. Many feel Darlie deserves a new trial. Discuss it here.


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  #51  
Old 04-03-2006, 02:30 AM
Goody Goody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.I.RattlesnakeJane
Also, was there ever a question to her or an explanation from her as to why she had to wet the towels - I have read all the clean up evidence so please dont do all that again! I just want to know if there has been comment as to why she felt the need to wet them - dry towel on wound = stem blood flow, water not needed (obviously in this case, even this wouldnt have saved the boys).
If you have a sucking chest wound you need to seal it off to get any air to stay in the lungs. Since there were too many of them (wounds) the lungs collasped and only surgery right there would have been even a 10% better chance.[/quote]
Yes, but, Jane, everybody knows you apply pressure to bleeding wounds, not saturate them with wet towels. And even if Darlie didn't, Darin with all his first aid training surely did, yet we hear him not even once telling her to get dry towel or not to wet them, and we never hear him telling her to apply pressure to Damon's wounds.
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  #52  
Old 04-03-2006, 04:39 AM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Goody
I saw an English series a few years ago about a doctor at the turn of the century I believe...early 1900s I think, and he was into horse racing. He killed people for their insurance money. Don't remember if some were patients or not, but I do recall that he killed off family members, even one of his children. It was very well done and held my attention week after week. It came on Sunday mornings and I couldnt wait for the next installment of the good Doctor's life.
That would be Dr William Palmer, known as the Rugeley Poisoner. He was only tried for one murder but assumed responsible for other mysterious deaths consistent with strychnine poisoning. http://www.staffspasttrack.org.uk/ex...er/default.htm He's not as well known here as Dr Crippen, heard of him? He poisoned his wife to be with his mistress. He was an American but he'll be forever associated with London.

Harold Shipman eclipses all our serial killers though, he probably rubbed out more people than all the others put together
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  #53  
Old 04-03-2006, 04:44 AM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Goody
If you have a sucking chest wound you need to seal it off to get any air to stay in the lungs. Since there were too many of them (wounds) the lungs collasped and only surgery right there would have been even a 10% better chance.
Yes, but, Jane, everybody knows you apply pressure to bleeding wounds, not saturate them with wet towels. And even if Darlie didn't, Darin with all his first aid training surely did, yet we hear him not even once telling her to get dry towel or not to wet them, and we never hear him telling her to apply pressure to Damon's wounds. [/quote]When I've done 1st aid training no one ever told me to mess about wetting towels with an open chest wound just pad + pressure. Even if this is right, would Darlie have known this? If she did know this, she would have done more than just 'lay them on his back' - one of her quotes, wouldnt she?

Last edited by Britlaw; 04-03-2006 at 09:33 AM.
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  #54  
Old 04-03-2006, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Goody
How could that be? Didn't he get any blood on him before he went back upstaris,and if he did, why is no trace of it found anywhere on the stairs, upstairs hall, or master bedroom? Not even a tiny transfer or smear?
I don't know. How did he get blood on his underwear? Who said there was no blood anywhere upstairs? Can you point me to the testimony please?
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  #55  
Old 04-03-2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Britlaw
I did edit my last post to qualify it re Sion Jenkins, so you dont think I am suggesting that Jenkins = Darlie but it was an interesting case. This sums up the blood bit http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...es/4661302.stm note the input from a Canadian Mountie! There are some similarities to Darlie though, a seemingly impossible timeline, an alleged intruder, a parent allegedly killing a child brutally (abeit not biological she had lived with the family for like 5 yrs and they were planning to adopt her), uncaring appearance - when he 'discovered' body he was with 2 other daughters, he called 911 and left them in house crying whilst he went and sat in his car and put the roof up on it because rain was iminent. He also cheated on job application forms faking qualifications (he was a head teacher) and this was al used to create a cold calculating character. The case cost the taxpayer millions and a killer still walks free - whoever he/she is.

I also added to my post that I am not a defence lawyer, a commercial one!

I agree with you re Darin/Darlie, they both have a motive for their stance.
What's the impossible timeline in the Routier case? Damon was stabbed at two different times and in two different areas of the room. He lived apprx. nine minutes after being stabbed. Nine minutes from the second set of stab wounds. Darlie had plenty of time to stage the CS.

My opinion only.
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  #56  
Old 04-03-2006, 11:30 AM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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[quote=cami]What's the impossible timeline in the Routier case? Damon was stabbed at two different times and in two different areas of the room. He lived apprx. nine minutes after being stabbed. Nine minutes from the second set of stab wounds. Darlie had plenty of time to stage the CS.

I did qualify this in a later post - it was the prosecution in Jenkins, as in Darlie, who asserted a very difficult timeline/sequence and in both cases the defence argued them as impossible. The state proposed the timeline and, although not impossible, I am sure they would have prefered to be able to assert that she had a bit more time to stage the scene.

I like you would like to know more about the blood on the stairs and upstairs or its absence. Darin's own statement made it clear he would have had blood all over him (blood arcing out of the holes in Devons chest and he said he even blew in the holes themselves) yet later he went upstairs to get Drake and brought him downstairs and out the house. One of the officers gave testimony that the baby was indeed upstairs but if Darin collected him how the heck he did that without a speck if what Goody says is correct.

I also need to go read all the 911 threads. I just played it on slow play and I swear at 1:12:21 Darin shouts "oh my god Drake get in here!" rather than whats on the transcript. I just played it back a few times and it certainly sounds like it to me. He was only a baby so obviously not meant literally. However, what if he had come down the stairs and was truly shocked by what he saw? He is trying to save one child but his wife is moving about the house doing god knows what perhaps wielding a knife and he faces the dilemna of leaving one to die whilst he goes and tris to rescue another thinking she might go and do Drake over and finish them all off. He could have said "oh my god Drake get in here!" more like a prayer, wishing he was in the room so he would know he was safe. If he'd rushed down the stairs in a panic and in the dark, how would he know whether Drake was stabbed in his crib? Were the tapes transcribed by a sound/voice specialist?

I find the theory that Darin was no part of it but he covers up for her difficult to understand but I find believing that 2 people could conspire to murder their own children an almost impossible coincidence - what are the chances of them both being that type of personality? Covering up for a spouse/loved one is fairly common. Heck, Primrose Shipman denied her husband killed all those people and wrote to him in Gaol telling him to hang in there and how much she loved him. He killed himself after conviction but she was working on his appeal!

This is the summary from a professional analysis of Primrose Shipmans handwriting on her likely characteristics (this was the only way of finding out as she wouldnt talk to anyone):
"It is not possible to extrapolate with proof, but it would seem likely that she would admire someone who was clever and could handle life in a way she couldn't. She would be extremely flattered that someone clever would want her* and, with puppy like trust, put herself in his hands without question, defending him against all persuasion. She is absolutely single-minded about believing in those who provide her security and does this instinctively, to stop her world collapsing".

* I dont like to say this about another woman but she is ugly and not very bright.

The evidence of the Routiers lives prior to the events points to Darin appearing to be very insecure and quite in awe of the fact that he had such a pretty wife, probably spending all their money in an attempt to keep her. He clearly made the most of her as 'arm candy' and felt other men were jealous, which made him feel better. Conversely, she is clearly attention seeking and gregarious. If you substitute the 'clever' for beautiful in the above, the partner scenario could be similar, just different sexes. He knew about her suicide thoughts and maybe she threw him doing little about that or something into the argument that night to add guilt to his insecurity.

Sorry, rambling now.....just the tape got me thinking what if........?

Last edited by Britlaw; 04-03-2006 at 01:09 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-03-2006, 01:37 PM
Desilu Desilu is offline
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The two things that always strike me when listening to that tape are her admonishment of "somebody who did it intentionally walked in here and did it Darin" and her hissing "Damon, Damon" Those phrases utterly sound like someone in control and not in hysterics.

01:44:28 Darlie Routier......my babies are dead
01:46.20 Radio
01:47:10 Darlie Routier....(unintelligible)....Damon, Damon, Damon

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  #58  
Old 04-03-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
Has anyone got a pic of her nightshirt showing the back? The blood running straight down the front looks a bit too perfect. I know she changed her mind as to her position when her throat was cut...what is the staining on the back and round the neck? (apart from the drops from the knife).
Britlaw
I believe there are some pictures of the nightshirt at both sites justicefordarlie and fordarlieroutier. The media at justicefordarlie has some better ones, just take some time.

The left shoulder on the nightshirt is soaked front and back, kinda in a collar shape (peter-pan collar?), and then has some saturated blood that has dripped down from that collar shaped stain, both front and back.

From this it looks like she was lying down at some point and stood up.
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  #59  
Old 04-03-2006, 08:03 PM
Mary456 Mary456 is offline
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
So if the dog was in the room and Darlie/Darin did do it I would expect it to be barking or at least making a noise.
The dog, Domain (don't ya love it, lol!), was upstairs in the master bedroom with Darin. She didn't bark until the police/paramedics arrived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
Mary, Sion is the Welsh equivalent of John. Its pronounced Shon but with a welsh accent its more like Shawn.
Thanks, Brit! I went through Sion (long i), Seon (long e) and even Shin. Shawn sounds much better...not innocent, but much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
I think the whole doubt with the blood in Jenkins is that it was argued that impact spatter would have much more randon patterns and there would be a variety in the sizes of the blood droplets as opposed to merely the microscopic ones he had on him.
There's something fishy about that, Brit. Supporters contend that all the drops were microscopic, but the website you supplied (the one showing his clothes) refers to 48 "tiny" spots on the jacket, 21 "tiny" spots on the sleeve, and 70 microscopic spots on the pant leg. Tiny isn't the same as microscopic, which makes me wonder who's telling the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
He would have had to stand within arms reach to restrain and stab her with the spike and bits of her brains (sorry) were found at the scene, so its hard to see why he hasnt got more than microscopic stuff on him.
But it all depends on where he was standing (behind, in front of her?), how hard the first blow was (did it stun and knock her down immediately, with little or no struggle?) There's so many variables that could have influenced blood spatter. What's much more difficult for me to believe is that he cradled her, etc., and had no sizeable blood splotches on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
The other interesting angle is that she had a paintbrush with white paint on it in her hand and there are marks at the scene that indicate she put up a fight whilst it remained in her hand. He didnt have paint on him.
According to the Justice for Sion Jenkins website, he did have a white paint stain on the cuff of his jacket.

Now, aren't you sorry you ever mentioned this case? You've created a monster (me)
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  #60  
Old 04-03-2006, 08:14 PM
Mary456 Mary456 is offline
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Originally Posted by cami
Who said there was no blood anywhere upstairs? Can you point me to the testimony please?
Cami, it's true. There wasn't any blood on the stairs, the railing, or anywhere on the second floor. Personally, I don't believe Darin ever went upstairs after coming down the first time. He and Darlie concocted that story because people questioned why Darlie wasn't concerned about Drake.

I mean, in a similar situation, wouldn't you be screaming, "Someone check the baby, someone check the baby!!"? She didn't do that, because she knew Drake was just fine.
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  #61  
Old 04-03-2006, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
Yes, but, Jane, everybody knows you apply pressure to bleeding wounds, not saturate them with wet towels. And even if Darlie didn't, Darin with all his first aid training surely did, yet we hear him not even once telling her to get dry towel or not to wet them, and we never hear him telling her to apply pressure to Damon's wounds.
When I've done 1st aid training no one ever told me to mess about wetting towels with an open chest wound just pad + pressure. Even if this is right, would Darlie have known this? If she did know this, she would have done more than just 'lay them on his back' - one of her quotes, wouldnt she?[/quote]
Exactly. Darin claimed that he had 7 years of training in first aid. Yet he never instructed Darlie on what to do....if you believe their testimony. However, her throwing him a whole stack of dry towels does make sense. He could easily use them to "pad and pressure." Plus once she used one wet towel, she would known instantly that wet was not a good mix with blood and would have stopped wetting them. The whole wet towel thing makes no sense at all on either of their parts and makes me squint when I look at him.
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  #62  
Old 04-03-2006, 11:59 PM
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Wet towels

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Originally Posted by Goody
The whole wet towel thing makes no sense at all on either of their parts and makes me squint when I look at him.
It makes perfect sense, Goody, if you accept the fact (yes, the fact) that Darlie never wet any towels. There would have been water on the floor, diluted blood on the carpet, on Damon's shirt, on Darlie's t-shirt, diluted blood on the towels. There wasn't blood diluted by water anywhere; if there had been, the forensic experts would have easily detected it & Mulder would have been grinning like a cheshire cat.

D & D never mentioned wetting towels in their statements to police. They didn't mention it until they discovered that LE had taken the kitchen sink out of the house. Darlie had to explain the washed-out blood in the sink, and Darin decided to support her story.
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  #63  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:48 AM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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Oh Mary, sorry, I can think of better men to have on your mind than Sion Jenkins! I am with you on this one, I was just trying to be objective/play devils advocate. I do think the jury would have had a hard time and can understand why they failed to reach a verdict but its the absence of transfered/smeared blood on him from tending to her as he said he did, and also his behavior at the scene that does it for me. His manner in his post acquittal interviews also troubles me but someone isnt necessarily guilty because they have piercing eyes and are a bit shifty and evasive.

Back to Darlie, can anyone point me to a copy of the official 911 transcript exhibit? All I can see are the supposed transcripts on Darlie sites and it appears that some text has been removed on them. I have read the appropriate volume but would like to see the exhibit - 18 D I recall.
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  #64  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txsvicki
I also noticed and posted lately about the way that Darlie said "someone came in here and intentionally did this Darin". Yes, the way she said "Darin" was really creepy. I think the jurors said that they weren't really swayed by the stilly string episode. I thought it was an odd thing to do by the entire family not just Darlie, but not showing guilt necessarily.
I do think they were swayed by the silly string tape. They asked for the tape numerous times. I didnt follow this case too much but, how do you account for the horrible bruising on Darli's arms?
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  #65  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary456
Cami, it's true. There wasn't any blood on the stairs, the railing, or anywhere on the second floor. Personally, I don't believe Darin ever went upstairs after coming down the first time. He and Darlie concocted that story because people questioned why Darlie wasn't concerned about Drake.

I mean, in a similar situation, wouldn't you be screaming, "Someone check the baby, someone check the baby!!"? She didn't do that, because she knew Drake was just fine.
Thanks Mary. I was trying to remember from our discussion about this at GAC, LOL. Guess I better find my notes and not rely on my poor memory.
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  #66  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank
I do think they were swayed by the silly string tape. They asked for the tape numerous times. I didnt follow this case too much but, how do you account for the horrible bruising on Darli's arms?
The jurors themselves have said it did not play a role.

As for the horrible bruising, I believe some of it is from needles and IVs and such and I think most of it occured after she was released from the hospital.
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  #67  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
That would be Dr William Palmer, known as the Rugeley Poisoner. He was only tried for one murder but assumed responsible for other mysterious deaths consistent with strychnine poisoning. http://www.staffspasttrack.org.uk/ex...er/default.htm He's not as well known here as Dr Crippen, heard of him? He poisoned his wife to be with his mistress. He was an American but he'll be forever associated with London.

Harold Shipman eclipses all our serial killers though, he probably rubbed out more people than all the others put together
I have heard of him, Shipman that is. Crippen also sounds familiar, but I have heard so many cases in the last few years that just about any name sounds familiar now. My head is like a true crime kalaedescope sometimes. LOL!
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  #68  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mary456
It makes perfect sense, Goody, if you accept the fact (yes, the fact) that Darlie never wet any towels. There would have been water on the floor, diluted blood on the carpet, on Damon's shirt, on Darlie's t-shirt, diluted blood on the towels. There wasn't blood diluted by water anywhere; if there had been, the forensic experts would have easily detected it & Mulder would have been grinning like a cheshire cat.

D & D never mentioned wetting towels in their statements to police. They didn't mention it until they discovered that LE had taken the kitchen sink out of the house. Darlie had to explain the washed-out blood in the sink, and Darin decided to support her story.
I think you misunderstood me. I meant that it makes no sense if these two were innocent. I agree totally with your take on it. Esp like the observation about Damon's shirt not having diluted blood on it from a wet towel laying on it.

I know you don't agree with me about Darin's participation, but I have a hard time accepting that he is innocent when these little things pop up.
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  #69  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:44 PM
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911 transcript

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Originally Posted by Britlaw
......

Back to Darlie, can anyone point me to a copy of the official 911 transcript exhibit? All I can see are the supposed transcripts on Darlie sites and it appears that some text has been removed on them. I have read the appropriate volume but would like to see the exhibit - 18 D I recall.
I don't think we have an actual copy of the 911 transcript exhibit. All we have is what the family has posted at the fordarlie site and what justicefordarlie.net has posted. Supposedly they are copies of the exhibit but I think we kind of have to take her word for it. There should be the court reporters inclusion somewhere in the trial transcripts. I don't know when they played it though for the jury to make it easy to find there. Hopefully someone else can remember and tell you exactly where it is in the trial transcripts.
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Old 04-05-2006, 11:51 PM
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Bruises

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Originally Posted by frank
I do think they were swayed by the silly string tape. They asked for the tape numerous times. I didnt follow this case too much but, how do you account for the horrible bruising on Darli's arms?
I don't think we have to. An intruder couldn't have done anything to her that Darin couldn't have and without any evidence that the intruder even existed, why would the jury question it?

And either way, neither Darin or an assailant would have hit her only in the upper arms. At the very least she should have been bruised on the forearms, from wrist to elbow, not from elbow to armpit. The bruises just don't ring true.

And bottomline, they don't change the blood and fiber evidence which pretty much nails her on the crime.
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  #71  
Old 04-06-2006, 03:04 AM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody
I don't think we have an actual copy of the 911 transcript exhibit. All we have is what the family has posted at the fordarlie site and what justicefordarlie.net has posted. Supposedly they are copies of the exhibit but I think we kind of have to take her word for it. There should be the court reporters inclusion somewhere in the trial transcripts. I don't know when they played it though for the jury to make it easy to find there. Hopefully someone else can remember and tell you exactly where it is in the trial transcripts.
I found it in the trial transcripts, cant recall the volume. The digitally enhanced tape was played and they were refering to the text transcript (exhibit 18D) but I would like to see a true copy, so I can see what they saw. The sound expert didnt sound very convincing on the 'moving from room to room' evidence - talked of damped and reflective ambience (carpet/no carpet) but could only establish the difference in a minute part of the tape - like 4-6 seconds. Technology has moved on, it would be good to get that tape analysed again now, she was certainly busy doing something!
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Old 04-06-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Britlaw
I found it in the trial transcripts, cant recall the volume. The digitally enhanced tape was played and they were refering to the text transcript (exhibit 18D) but I would like to see a true copy, so I can see what they saw. The sound expert didnt sound very convincing on the 'moving from room to room' evidence - talked of damped and reflective ambience (carpet/no carpet) but could only establish the difference in a minute part of the tape - like 4-6 seconds. Technology has moved on, it would be good to get that tape analysed again now, she was certainly busy doing something!
I agree. I would love to see that tape analyzed by the FBI labs or some equal in high tech sound lab. I think the guy they had was okay, but I don't really see her moving back and forth from room to room after she made the 911 call. Unless she went in to stab Damon again, but not to do the cleaning up they think she did. But then I think she had more time to do what she had to do than the state did. And I don't think she was hiding anything from Darin.

I didn't think the state's sound expert's theories matched the other evidence but I haven't read that part of the transcript in ages. I might view it entirely different now.

I agree that the 911 transcript in the trial transcripts is probably not as good as the official exhibit because the court reporter transcribed it from ear.

As for the moving from carpet to vinyl, with the right equipment, actual sound waves can be measured. I am not sure this guy's equipment was that sophisticated though. I have never known just what to make of his testimony.
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  #73  
Old 04-18-2006, 10:41 AM
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I also need to go read all the 911 threads. I just played it on slow play and I swear at 1:12:21 Darin shouts "oh my god Drake get in here!" rather than whats on the transcript. I just played it back a few times and it certainly sounds like it to me. He was only a baby so obviously not meant literally. However, what if he had come down the stairs and was truly shocked by what he saw? He is trying to save one child but his wife is moving about the house doing god knows what perhaps wielding a knife and he faces the dilemna of leaving one to die whilst he goes and tris to rescue another thinking she might go and do Drake over and finish them all off. He could have said "oh my god Drake get in here!" more like a prayer, wishing he was in the room so he would know he was safe. If he'd rushed down the stairs in a panic and in the dark, how would he know whether Drake was stabbed in his crib? Were the tapes transcribed by a sound/voice specialist?
I make it as Darin saying "they or he can't make it if they don't get here." He tells Darlie a couple of times to "get somebody"

I distinctly hear the "can't" so I don't believe Darin says Drake or Blake at all.

I don't think we will ever get the full transcript of the 911 call. Some of us have heard a lot more than what the original transcript notes. There is software that can bring it up but it's terribly expensive.

Darlie's "someone just walked in her and intentionally did it Darin" is pretty audible. She goes from alleged hysteria to anger in nanoseconds. Listen to the anger in her voice, I can't shake it....those poor little kids. Her hissing to Darin, "damon, damon, damon" has always disturbed me right from the beginning. Then there's her fixation on her prints on the knife. What mother whose kids are dead and dying in front of cares less that she left her prints on the murder weapon...unless she's guilty of the crime.

I'll try to find what I transcribed from it but I think I got rid of those notes long ago.
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  #74  
Old 04-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Britlaw Britlaw is offline
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We all seem to hear things differently but the bit I mentioned before at 1:12:21 - I saved the MP3 file then snipped it at that point and enhanced it (with teenage sons software he does stuff with) and then slowed it down. I can definately hear "Oh my god drake get in here" with a tone of voice quite unlike Darlies.... like more convincing. When I speed it up it seems even more compelling. I'll ask him if he can make it better and save it and post it here for a consensus. I played it via the sound system with woofers and tweeters and all and I am fairly convinced. It's not like I am mistaking the accent either, as I have both friends and family who are Texans (if Darin were canadian or a Geordie it would be a different matter lol).
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  #75  
Old 04-19-2006, 12:38 PM
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cami cami is offline
Keep your fork......
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In the Atlantic
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britlaw
We all seem to hear things differently but the bit I mentioned before at 1:12:21 - I saved the MP3 file then snipped it at that point and enhanced it (with teenage sons software he does stuff with) and then slowed it down. I can definately hear "Oh my god drake get in here" with a tone of voice quite unlike Darlies.... like more convincing. When I speed it up it seems even more compelling. I'll ask him if he can make it better and save it and post it here for a consensus. I played it via the sound system with woofers and tweeters and all and I am fairly convinced. It's not like I am mistaking the accent either, as I have both friends and family who are Texans (if Darin were canadian or a Geordie it would be a different matter lol).

LOl, yeah Geordie might be easier aahahaha. My mother is Lancashire but she took elocution lessons so she could lose the accent...now she sounds more Canadian than English. It's the Scots I can't understand, LOL.

Sorry but I do have to disagree with you. Let's agree to disagree. Yes we all do hear different things. I am fairly certain he does not say Drake. Drake was an infant, eight months old. Why would Darin be calling him to "get in here"

I too have played mine on my mp3 player sound system. I have it burned to a cd. I have a producer friend who has run it through his sound system and we hear differently. He is the producer who told me about the vinyl software--it can bring a voice out of the mud--but it's very expensive so neither he nor I will be purchasing it any time soon, LOL.

Dani has it on a wavfile and emailed to me, I still have it, and I found that there is a tiny bit of voice distortion on the word "blake/drake/make because it is slowed down. It really does sound like Blake, but I definitely hear the word "can't" so I stick by my original.
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