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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #51  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:28 PM
Peter Hamilton Peter Hamilton is offline
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lilpony--what exactly are you saying? that you can't believe the R's killed their daughter? molested their daughter'? the garrote? the paintbrush? which part? or all parts?
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  #52  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:28 PM
lovebites lovebites is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narlacat
Well, let's see.
Maybe it has something to do with their lying and their refusal to co operate with LE.
Maybe it has something to do with PR not being able to be eliminated as the writer of the note.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact they were trying to get out of town within the hour of their daughters body being found.
Maybe it has something to do with fibre evidence.
You want more reasons, I got more
What exactly was their explanation for wanting to leave town immediately following the discovery of their daughter's body? I've never really heard what they gave as their rationale for such an odd reaction.
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  #53  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:30 PM
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lilpony lilpony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianne
LinasK....

I don't think lilpony was saying she couldn't believe molestation could not happen. We all know that happens, and I am sorry your Mother chose to not believe you. That is terrible, and I am sure has affected you for a long time.

As sick, twisted & perverted molestation/incest is...there is a HUGE difference between that and murder.
Julianne, thats correct. I was implying molestation couldn't happen, of course it can and does. I meant that I can't believe JBR parents could murder her in that way, and be able to cover it up, without breaking. Its just unbelieveable.
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  #54  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:30 PM
Peter Hamilton Peter Hamilton is offline
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lilpony,you don't think Susan Smith case was worse than this? I do
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  #55  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle
Like I said in my original post, its been awhile but I have read alot on this case. I just want to know what are the reasons people believe in their guilt, I am allowed to ask.
You have to look at it like a crime novel, or a made for TV movie. The reason you have to look at it that way is this - all we can do is speculate from the evidence available to the public. Sort of like figuring it out from clues in a novel or in a movie.

A crime novel where police are called in to investigate a rape/murder, and where on page 2, they find the father's semen in the girl's vagina and his fingerprints on the blody knife would be a very short book, and not much of a thriller.

We aren't going to get iron-clad evidence in this case. Not enough for a conviction anyway. Can fibers innocently get entwined in the garrotte? I don't know. We have to call in fiber experts. Since both sides will do this, there's no doubt the fiber experts will disagree.

If this is ever solved it will be like on TV. The suspect will break down and sob and admit guilt. IOW, this case will never be solved, and will never go to trial.

But we can look at the evidence and ask where it leads us. Many of us think the RDI makes the most sense. We'll never have the sort of proof that will hold up in court, but we're still convinced.

I'll give you a few reasons for a start, then let others continue.


A. The ransom note is staging, there was never an actual kidnapping planned, which later went bad. Why ?

1. Dead bodies left in the house with RNs donít often result in payment of ransom.

2. It was hand written. Most RN authors would like to avoid it being
traced to them. The R's if covering up, wouldn't have had a choice.

3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

4. Itís the longest, most rambling RN in history. It just doesnít seem
like a real RN.

5. Itís written on the Rís paper, with one of their sharpie markers. A real kidnapper would have come prepared with the RN already written.

If itís staging, who has more reason to write it, an intruder paedo with no intention of collecting ransom, or the Rís to coverup? I think the later.
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  #56  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:32 PM
Peter Hamilton Peter Hamilton is offline
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Dr Jeffrey McDonald stabbed his own little kids to death--So did Darlie Routier--what's worse than that?
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  #57  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljwf22
Isn't true that LE didn't obtain they clothes the Ramseys were wearing until almost a year after the crime? I heard a clip where Patsy stated 'They never asked (which I'm not sure I believe)', 'We couldn't even remember what we were wearing' and 'They had to show us pictures (of what they were wearing)'


Whaaaaat, your kidding me! Thats crazy! How come the case was fumbled so badly...weird!
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  #58  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:33 PM
Peter Hamilton Peter Hamilton is offline
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Chrishope--nice post
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  #59  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:35 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpony
Well, I am just not sure that they did this. I know parents everyday, murder their children and abuse them. But with this case, the way JBR was murdered. I just do not want to believe that they would do all this to their little girl. I just can't believe it, I just can't go there. It has to be proven to me that they did it. I just don't know how a parent could do this. I can't comprehend it or I just don't want too.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?
No. I don't really care who did it. I don't find the idea of he parents doing it any more disturbing than an intruder doing it. This stuff happens. Parents have done similar things. So have intruders.
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  #60  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hamilton
lilpony--what exactly are you saying? that you can't believe the R's killed their daughter? molested their daughter'? the garrote? the paintbrush? which part? or all parts?
Oh boy, I am under pressure, hehe!! I don't preform well under pressure! LOL

Ok, I DON"T want to believe they killed their daughter, its not proven to me yet. I can't believe they would use a garrote, on their little girl, how can they go that far. If they did this, they are twisted and sick!
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  #61  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:37 PM
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michelle michelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishope
You have to look at it like a crime novel, or a made for TV movie. The reason you have to look at it that way is this - all we can do is speculate from the evidence available to the public. Sort of like figuring it out from clues in a novel or in a movie.

A crime novel where police are called in to investigate a rape/murder, and where on page 2, they find the father's semen in the girl's vagina and his fingerprints on the blody knife would be a very short book, and not much of a thriller.

We aren't going to get iron-clad evidence in this case. Not enough for a conviction anyway. Can fibers innocently get entwined in the garrotte? I don't know. We have to call in fiber experts. Since both sides will do this, there's no doubt the fiber experts will disagree.

If this is ever solved it will be like on TV. The suspect will break down and sob and admit guilt. IOW, this case will never be solved, and will never go to trial.

But we can look at the evidence and ask where it leads us. Many of us think the RDI makes the most sense. We'll never have the sort of proof that will hold up in court, but we're still convinced.

I'll give you a few reasons for a start, then let others continue.

My theory of the case. JRDI

A. The ransom note is staging, there was never an actual kidnapping planned, which later went bad. Why ?

1. Dead bodies left in the house with RNs donít often result in payment of ransom.

2. It was hand written. Most RN authors would like to avoid it being
traced to them. The R's if covering up, wouldn't have had a choice.

3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

4. Itís the longest, most rambling RN in history. It just doesnít seem
like a real RN.

5. Itís written on the Rís paper, with one of their sharpie markers. A real kidnapper would have come prepared with the RN already written.

If itís staging, who has more reason to write it, an intruder paedo with no intention of collecting ransom, or the Rís to coverup? I think the later.
The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?
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  #62  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:39 PM
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michelle michelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpony
Oh boy, I am under pressure, hehe!! I don't preform well under pressure! LOL

Ok, I DON"T want to believe they killed their daughter, its not proven to me yet. I can't believe they would use a garrote, on their little girl, how can they go that far. If they did this, they are twisted and sick!
I know exactly what you are getting at lilpony, its hard for us to comprehend that a parent can do this but they can, and they unfortunatly will continue too. I cant go there either because I am a parent too and it sickens me.
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  #63  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:41 PM
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LinasK LinasK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpony
LinasK. I am so sorry. If they did this, there should have been something that would have pointed directly to them. And if there was, why wasn't something done about it. I mean how could they cover for this horrible crime. Wouldn't you think they could break one of them? This is so frustrating isn't it? Confusing too!
Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
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  #64  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:41 PM
Peter Hamilton Peter Hamilton is offline
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michelle,then neighbors will tell the cops,hey the R's took the car out in the middle of the night--well,it worked for Wayne Williams for a while,he threwa lot of bodies in the river---still its quite risky
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  #65  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:41 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Another reason.

B. This was a sex crime.

1. Whoever killed JBR was a really pervy paedo. This is true whether it was JR or an intruder.

2. Whoever put the garrotte around her neck knew something of the kinky world of errotic asphyxiation, or wanted to explore it. This isnít something the parents would do, as staging, if they hadn't known anyting of these kinds of sexual practices.

3. At the same time, the garrotte wasnít very ďprofessionalĒ. If a ring of Paedos was involved, or even just one paedo who had some ďfriendsĒ someone would have helped him make a good one. This garrotte was someoneís first go at AE.

4. The garrotte was made at the scene. An intruder pervy paedo would have brought one ready made.

It's not really proveable either way, but to go with an IDI theory you have to believe in an inept intruder, who doesn't really know how to make a garrotte, and doesn't bother to bring one with him, prefering instead to hope that the home will contain the necessary materials. Since it was built on the body, you also have to believe he frittered away the several hours he spent in the house by working crossword puzzles instead of making the garrotte he planned to use later that night. It just makes more sense to me that an R did this.
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  #66  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:43 PM
close_enough close_enough is offline
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3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

the reason for the $118,000 was to throw suspicion toward JR's co-workers, imo...
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  #67  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:44 PM
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lilpony lilpony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hamilton
lilpony,you don't think Susan Smith case was worse than this? I do
Hmmmmm, that was pretty horrible as well.
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  #68  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishope
No. I don't really care who did it. I don't find the idea of he parents doing it any more disturbing than an intruder doing it. This stuff happens. Parents have done similar things. So have intruders.
Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?
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  #69  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:46 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle
The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?
Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.
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  #70  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:49 PM
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lilpony lilpony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinasK
Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
If JR strangled her, why would then have to do the head blow. She would have been already dead.
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  #71  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:49 PM
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michelle michelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishope
Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.
Oh I admit that 2 things stand out to me more then anything and that is the window, why not tell right away that is so important and 2 how was her body over looked the first time they went to search the house? I dont get that? I know that they thought they were dealing with a kidnapping but I would rip that house apart looking for my child. But those things can be explained as well.
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  #72  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:50 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpony
Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?
I think it's more likely JR was the sexual molester. It would be more common for a man to do this than a woman. I think Patsy knew what JR was doing to JBR. Why did she go along? Don't know. I only know that women have gone along with this sort of activity in other cases. It's not unusual for a woman to overlook this kind of thing rather than risk loosing a boyfriend. In this case, it's not some looser boyfriend, but a millionaire husband.

I think JR might have been expirementing with AE and it cause JBR to have heart failure. They had to hit her in the head to make it seem she was attacked by an intruder. I think Patsy went along with the coverup.

It's just a theory.

Another reason so many of us on the RDI side sometimes act is if we are certain is that the IDI theory has so many holes in it.
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  #73  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:53 PM
wenchie wenchie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpony
[/b]

Whaaaaat, your kidding me! Thats crazy! How come the case was fumbled so badly...weird!

Not only that, but LE let Patsy's sister into the house the next day to get "some clothing for them to wear to the funeral", and she took tons of stuff out of the house - including the black pants and black boots that Patsy had worn on Christmas day (and was still wearing the next day).
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  #74  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:53 PM
julianne julianne is offline
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Chrishope,

I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????
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  #75  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:59 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianne
Chrishope,

I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????
It's possible but not probable. The way that particular garrotte worked -or was suppossed to work, had it been made by someone knowing what they were doing, is that one pulls the handle to tighten the "noose" part. Twisting the handle would do nothing at all.

Pulling on it could catch some hairs, and pull them out, but probably wouldn't twist them.

It is possilbe that her hair got tangle in it somehow, even if it were already built prior to use. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation -imo.
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