Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > JonBenet Ramsey

Notices

JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2006, 01:16 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
RN Keywords

Forgive me for the long post. I'm drawing a conclusion from what I have learned over several years.

To me there seems to be only six alternatives about who wrote the Ransom Note: an insider to cover-up, an outsider that wanted to make a political statement, an outsider with a personal vendetta against John Ramsay, a wacko pervert outsider who just wants to kill JonBenet, an outsider close to the family that needed to shut-up JonBenet, or a hired gun that took out John Ramsay‘s ability to further his career and buy out the company. I pulled out the essential signal keywords in the RN (might have missed one or two) and am trying to see how they fit together in the various themes. Maybe you have other possible themes? Compare them with the RN Keywords and see how consistent they are.

I kind of think it was an RDI cover up or personal business vendetta against John. However, if it was a vendetta against John, then how could the perp know and be able to imitate Patsy’s handwriting? Sadly, because I don’t believe anyone would have the brains to imitate Patsy’s handwriting, I once again slide to the RDI side if the fence. I wish I could come up with any ideas that would explain the questions I have raised in the IDI themes below.

1. RDI cover-up
2. IDI Foreign Faction Statement
3. IDI Personal Vendetta on John Ramsay
4. IDI wacko
5. IDI shut-up JonBenet
6. IDI take-out John Ramsay

1. Theme: RDI cover-up
Group of individuals; foreign faction - ruse
$118,000.00 - ruse, deflect and infer suspicion on employee envy about bonus
Attache - ruse
Well rested - ? feminine
Early, early, early - urgency
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - infer envy on John as fat cat
Victory - saved by the cross
S.B.T.C - saved by the cross

Seems consistent with limited movie knowledge of kidnapping, deflection, and inside knowledge.

2. Theme: IDI Foreign Faction Statement
Group of individuals; foreign faction - political statement
$118,000.00 - ?; 1900 bills?, why the mystery of $118k?
Attache - political statement
Well rested - ?
Early, early, early - urgency or reference to Norm Early head of Security for Lockheed?
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - fat cats control power and politics
Victory - this is a win for the Foreign Faction
S.B.T.C - Stop Bombing Thirdworld Countries

Okay, poltical activist fits with younger person who watches kidnap crime movies. But how would the perp know that this would become a public attention getter? How would the perp get inside knowledge? Why the need to express kidnap crime movie references? This is supposed to be a political action; not pulp fiction. Doesn’t work for me.

3. Theme: IDI Personal Vendetta on John Ramsay
Group of individuals; foreign faction - ruse
$118,000.00 - envy about $118k bonus; insider knowledge
Attache - ruse
Well rested - ?, feminine?
Early, early, early - urgency
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency, delivery business?
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - envy John as a fat cat
Victory - this is a vendetta
S.B.T.C - ?, Small Business Technical Coalition?

This could be a vengeful person with inside knowledge of $118k bonus, who is young enough to be obsessed with kidnap crime movies and is related to John by business. Could be female. Has some consistency.

4. IDI wacko
Group of individuals; foreign faction - ruse
$118,000.00 - why mention this?, inside knowledge?
Attache - ruse
Well rested - ?, perverse
Early, early, early - urgency
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency, delivery business?
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - envy fat cat
Victory - why a victory?
S.B.T.C - ?

Although consistent with obsession and perversion with kidnap crime movies, why the wacko's $118k insider knowledge and why a victory? This doesn’t work for me.

5. IDI shut up JonBenet
Group of individuals; foreign faction - ruse
$118,000.00 - why mention it and draw attention to Insider knowledge
Attache - ruse
Well rested - feminine
Early, early, early - urgency
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - why envy fat cat
Victory - why a vendetta
S.B.T.C - ?

Why would the perp want to draw attention to someone close to the R’s when they are trying to sut-up JonBenet? Doesn’t work for me.

6. IDI take-out John Ramsay
Group of individuals; foreign faction - ruse
$118,000.00 - why mention it and draw attention to insider knowledge?
Attache - ruse
Well rested - ?
Early, early, early - urgency
Delivery, delivery, delivery, pick-up - urgency
Two gentlemen - feminine; 2 = ruse
Stray dog pissing against a lamp post - movie
She dies , she dies, she dies - movie Ruthless threat
Scanned, monitor - computer savy
Grow a brain - movie Speed
Fat cat - envy fat cat
Victory - why a victory
S.B.T.C - ?

A hired take-out would not write all this stuff. Doesn’t work for me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2006, 10:35 AM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,837
Very Impressionable Perp

Whether the perp turns out to be male or female or other, at least we know the perp is extremely IMPRESSIONABLE, right?

If they could remember so much about movies, and knew the Ramseys well enough, received Christmas letters, maybe, isn't it maybe possible the perp could imitate Patsy's style, something like comedian impersonators sounding just like some famous character, so we'd all recognize without being told, who the impersonator is imitating?

I'd have to read through your post again to go any farther. This is just elementary, it seems to me, that the RN could be a form of IMPERSONATING.

Some people simply have an uncanny talent for it.

So far, we don't know if any of the Rs' friends or acquaintances had this ability. They'd have recognized such a person, immediately, from the note. (Remember I'm neutral, haven't chosen sides. Interested in all points of view, not defending or accusing anyone.)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2006, 07:33 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Whether the perp turns out to be male or female or other, at least we know the perp is extremely IMPRESSIONABLE, right?

If they could remember so much about movies, and knew the Ramseys well enough, received Christmas letters, maybe, isn't it maybe possible the perp could imitate Patsy's style, something like comedian impersonators sounding just like some famous character, so we'd all recognize without being told, who the impersonator is imitating?

I'd have to read through your post again to go any farther. This is just elementary, it seems to me, that the RN could be a form of IMPERSONATING.

Some people simply have an uncanny talent for it.

So far, we don't know if any of the Rs' friends or acquaintances had this ability. They'd have recognized such a person, immediately, from the note. (Remember I'm neutral, haven't chosen sides. Interested in all points of view, not defending or accusing anyone.)
Well, if it was an intruder, then maybe we should look for someone who could impersonate Patsy's writing. That sounds like stretching it, but it does make some sense if you're searching for an intruder. SH went to prison for forging and John did not want to pay her and her husband the $36k. Split two ways that's $18k as someone suggested. I can't imagine anyone cunning enough to do that, unless of course they wanted to take away his daughter and then make him suspicious of his wife to boot. Another employee SS might have gotten more letters from Patsy.

I think it's stretching it. Either Patsy wrote the RN or someone concidently had writing like hers.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:11 AM
narlacat narlacat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 9,284
<<Either Patsy wrote the RN or someone concidently had writing like hers>>

If you come to the conclusion that PR wrote the note-why?
To cover her butt, or someone elses?

I can't quite come at PR writing that note by herself ...the way it prattles on is PR all over though...the use of the word attache, would she be so stupid?
That gets me that word.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-29-2006, 11:11 AM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,837
Comedian Impersonaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert
Well, if it was an intruder, then maybe we should look for someone who could impersonate Patsy's writing. That sounds like stretching it, but it does make some sense if you're searching for an intruder. SH went to prison for forging and John did not want to pay her and her husband the $36k. Split two ways that's $18k as someone suggested. I can't imagine anyone cunning enough to do that, unless of course they wanted to take away his daughter and then make him suspicious of his wife to boot. Another employee SS might have gotten more letters from Patsy.

I think it's stretching it. Either Patsy wrote the RN or someone concidently had writing like hers.
All of us have seen comedians impersonate famous people, we recognized from the voice and characteristic mannerisms. (Hope my spelling is close enough that you get my drift.) Hollywood stars are usually the ones imitated, like Bette Davis, James Stewart, James Cagny, etc.

Could it happen that someone is cunning enough to impersonate someone's handwriting and habitual manner of writing, as well as the other usual things that have to be viewed? Why not? It'd be a useful tool in crimes,going to be pinned on someone else, would it not?

Thank you for being unbiased so we can consider both sides of the question. I'm thinking the note writer is just as much a show-off as Patsy, or even more so, being male, and goes farther, even to killing.

But if all the friends belonged to some satanic cult as well as to some church, the Ramseys certainly could have been involved, may have considered it just good business, and rationalized that JB was always sedated and wouldn't be permanently emotionally harmed. Did Bette Davis have a unique writing style? Doesn't everyone?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-29-2006, 02:56 PM
rashomon rashomon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
[Rupert]Well, if it was an intruder, then maybe we should look for someone who could impersonate Patsy's writing. That sounds like stretching it, but it does make some sense if you're searching for an intruder.
But why should an intruder take the trouble to learn about Patsy's handwriting in order to imitate it in a ransom note, only to ask for a measly sum of $118,000 from this multimillionaire family?
Occcam's razor applied: Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The similarities between her handwriting and the note are striking:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-29-2006, 05:20 PM
Solace Solace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by rashomon
But why should an intruder take the trouble to learn about Patsy's handwriting in order to imitate it in a ransom note, only to ask for a measly sum of $118,000 from this multimillionaire family?
Occcam's razor applied: Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The similarities between her handwriting and the note are striking:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf
There is no intruder. It was Patsy.

IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:17 AM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,837
Maybe I Can Answer That

Quote:
Originally Posted by rashomon
But why should an intruder take the trouble to learn about Patsy's handwriting in order to imitate it in a ransom note, only to ask for a measly sum of $118,000 from this multimillionaire family?
Occcam's razor applied: Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The similarities between her handwriting and the note are striking:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf

Mindset of the "Intruder" friend or whatever, showing off his POWER to (1) "monitor" them, (2) impersonate them almost perfectly, (3) kill their child with impunity, (4) ) have them hounded about it the rest of their lives.never being able to do anything about it even if they know or suspect who did it or caused it to be done,(5) Amount was also sarcasm, and to show that he knew how much the bonus was, didn't really need money, etc. Whole thing a showing-off, that he had immunity and power over these people. He was also showing off that he did not need ransom money. Cruel as the devil himself. He'd probably flattered the R's in some way to get close to them. Awfully prideful himself, he probably figured the R's were prideful and needed his "humbling", which would stay with them the rest of their lives.

" If" Patsy wrote the note, so what, she had no choice but to try to cover up what may have really been going on with "the friends". "If" she wrote the note it still doesn't prove she killed JonBenet, and the thrush (mouth?) infection may indicate oral sex by a male was being forced on the probably-sedated child. Nobody's proved that anybody did it, so far. Appearances can be deceiving. So deceiving.

Remember the Valerie Plame or Plume thing, which just may have all been staged to remind Americans that we can't expose a secret agent?

I'm thinking it's "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold", meant to google that and see what it's about, just borrowing the title.

According to some crime shows on MSNBC Sunday night, serial killers get high on killing just like on heroin, are motivated by POWER, and have to soon have another.

But we haven't heard of this exact m.o. in any other case unless Danielle Van Dam, if that guy who's in prison for it was just a fall guy. I forget his name. Westerfield? They were showing that Rampage killers are motivated differently from serial ones, typically have moved far from home for a job, leaving their support system behind, and it all falls through, so they may decide to kill a thousand people, usually are stopped before 25, kill themselves. There should maybe be a profile for this type of killer, like Adam Walsh's killer, but not enough is known about them yet, must be few and far between. They met him in Houston? Just a tentative theory that would explain some things, correctly or not.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-30-2006, 12:02 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
According to some crime shows on MSNBC Sunday night, serial killers get high on killing just like on heroin, are motivated by POWER, and have to soon have another.

But we haven't heard of this exact m.o. in any other case
Correct on both counts.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-09-2006, 05:50 AM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,837
He's Simply a Show-Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by rashomon
But why should an intruder take the trouble to learn about Patsy's handwriting in order to imitate it in a ransom note, only to ask for a measly sum of $118,000 from this multimillionaire family?
Occcam's razor applied: Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The similarities between her handwriting and the note are striking:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf
Why would he take the trouble to learn Patsy's style? Because he could, and enjoyed fooling people.

I think he's the same one who kept phoning PR according to The Patricia Letters, evidently trying to get more attention than JonBenet, jealous of her, and the same one who slept in JonBenet's bed at Charlevoix. The length of the RN also is because of his wanting attention w/out revealing who he is or taking responsibility for anything. Psych question would be, was he deprived in childhood of a normal amount of parental attention, something like Karr, or was he a spoiled brat, malicious because why? Some people seem to have a genius for evil. Why? Not that there's any excuse.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-10-2006, 04:01 AM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Why would he take the trouble to learn Patsy's style? Because he could, and enjoyed fooling people.

I think he's the same one who kept phoning PR according to The Patricia Letters, evidently trying to get more attention than JonBenet, jealous of her, and the same one who slept in JonBenet's bed at Charlevoix. The length of the RN also is because of his wanting attention w/out revealing who he is or taking responsibility for anything. Psych question would be, was he deprived in childhood of a normal amount of parental attention, something like Karr, or was he a spoiled brat, malicious because why? Some people seem to have a genius for evil. Why? Not that there's any excuse.
The note was addressed to John. No mention of Patsy, yet she was the mother. The practice note was addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. I", the "I" could have been the downstroke of an "R". Regardless, why would the author not include the mother?

Well, if it was an intruder, then it seems at first hand to have been a personal vengeance towards John. But to include the impersonation of Patsy's writing, then the perp would have to have planned it.

The timing does fit with a possible motive of jealous vengeance towards John: the $1 billion sales, $118k bonus, "Esprit" business award (remember the heartdrawn magazine). Perhaps the perp was comparing himself to John. But why the girl? Perhaps he was a pedophile too and needed to shut her up. So maybe that's why he planned it.

I wonder why Foster went from being first convinced that PR did not write it to being so convinced she did. I also wonder if Foster ever considered a forgerer, someone imitating PR. I gathered from Foster's final statements that there are many things (more than just the basics) that led him to believe Patsy wrote the note. Perhaps in his mind Foster ruled out any forgery as well.

So where are we? Either an RDI coverup or an IDI with peculiar ability to imitate Patsy's writing.

On one hand, you could ask why would Patsy write such a long incriminating note? Well, perhaps to make it look like a kidnapping, but that is so overboard. Well, perhaps she was overboard with some obvious vengeance towards John. Or perhaps they wrote it together and just threw in everything they could think of to make it look like it was a personal vengeance with multiple suspects.

On the other hand, perhaps it was an intruder jealous of John and a pedophile to boot. He wrote a long note to express his anger and frame the Ramsays. Perhaps he imitated Patsy's writing to disguise his own and planned that ahead.

It just seems like a tall order for an intruder to plan ahead and imitate Patsy's writing.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-10-2006, 10:52 AM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by rashomon
But why should an intruder take the trouble to learn about Patsy's handwriting in order to imitate it in a ransom note, only to ask for a measly sum of $118,000 from this multimillionaire family?
Occcam's razor applied: Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The similarities between her handwriting and the note are striking:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf
IA,it has her earmarks all over it.
I don't think the whole note is hard to figure out,as far as the remarks made and things referred to.$118,000=amt of JR's bonus;R's trying to frame LHP using the note=knowing she could have likely seen something in the house ref. to his bonus and assumed he would have that amt available as petty cash.$118,000 isn't a lot of money,but for someone needing and asking to borrow $2500,it IS a lot,and the R's knew that.
"Good southern common sense"..inside family joke,knowing LHP could have overheard that(again, R's trying to frame her).
I could go on but I think the point is made.As far as movie quotes,those were pretty common lines we've all heard in action films;PR being the overdoer that she was,like ST said,it was a 'HollyWood-ized ransom note'.Same with the 911 call...kidnapping, ransom note...the drama's pretty far out there for real life.I think she realized that for a moment when she made the call...she started to say,'we have a ran....' and stopped...then said 'there's a note left and our daughter is gone'.But I caught that first, and then only later in the call did PR say it was a ransom note. I think for a moment there,she knew it wouldn't sound beleiveable.
She obviously started to say,'we have a ransom note'.
Listen to the 911 call again if you didn't catch that.
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57

Last edited by JMO8778; 11-10-2006 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-10-2006, 07:46 PM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert

It just seems like a tall order for an intruder to plan ahead and imitate Patsy's writing.
I agree;I think that's overthinking it.I think an intruder would have brought the note with him,already written so he could simply leave it out to be found.
And how would he know if he would even have time to write one?
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-11-2006, 09:40 AM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,837
True. But a Lot to Carry

Evidently whoever did it, IDI or RDI, he KNEW rope would be available in the house, right? And a yellow legal pad, and whatever else. Why carry anything with him that might fall out of his pocket or duffle bag or backpack on the way, or that might be discovered if he were stopped for any traffic violation, tail light not working or something like that? People have been caught that way.

Sure, his having the uncanny ability to imitate PR so well is pretty far-out, but he's a unique kind of perp, or he'd have been caught. PR having the uncanny ability to think of such a note just because she was desperate is just as iffy, it seems to me.

I always enjoy Rupert's posts, the consideration of both sides. And the replies after.

I'm still fishing for a reaction about a perp wanting to "be" JonBenet, or PR, as I guess all actors in theater have to be while onstage. His sleeping in JonBenet's bed and trying to replace JBR in Patsy's affections during the Grand Jury which was evidently making him nervous really brings home to me that's what he was doing, trying to get attention that rightfully belonged to someone else, without revealing his actual ID. Picture it; certainly could and evidently did happen. Many say they haven't read the Patricia Letters, probably available at ACandyRose.

FWIW, I just "may" personally know someone like I'm describing, so please consider it. During the many re-airings of assassinations documentaries, they've said all kinds of nuts infiltrate gov't agencies. I think that makes sense. "Hence" his bragging about being able to monitor and study this family, especially Patsy. Maybe wanted to be a woman??? And/Or a little girl star like JonBenet? Was he obsessed with what might have been if he'd really been born female? And even the omission of the wife/mother in the RN is very familiar to me, a fairly recent phenomenon in some church bulletin mailings. He flatters men, especially leaders, but may behind their backs accuse and get them assassinated, I gather from Holy Writ predictions about the abuse of technology, he's obviously so proud of.

This Nov. 22nd will be another anniversary of the JFK assassination, when we sometimes get something new in the documentaries.

One thing I've never heard emphasized, all the assassination victims were accused posthumously of sexual affairs. JFK had such a bad back, he couldn't duck down in that parade car because of his back brace, and the recordings of Dr. King, "monitoring" him, could have been made in his own home with his own wife but we're supposed to believe it was adultery. Same m.o.'s and number of distractions as in the JonBenet case?

Some of the books said there were 2 to 4 Oswalds. We have at least that many potential suspects about the Ramsey case. Just one of my rambling open-minded opinions. I'll bet you there's some connection.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-11-2006, 03:13 PM
cynpat2000 cynpat2000 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: north carolina
Posts: 1,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace
There is no intruder. It was Patsy.

IMO.
This deserves to be repeated because no trueer words have been spoken.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-11-2006, 04:00 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO8778
IA,it has her earmarks all over it.
I don't think the whole note is hard to figure out,as far as the remarks made and things referred to.$118,000=amt of JR's bonus;R's trying to frame LHP using the note=knowing she could have likely seen something in the house ref. to his bonus and assumed he would have that amt available as petty cash.$118,000 isn't a lot of money,but for someone needing and asking to borrow $2500,it IS a lot,and the R's knew that.
"Good southern common sense"..inside family joke,knowing LHP could have overheard that(again, R's trying to frame her).
I could go on but I think the point is made.As far as movie quotes,those were pretty common lines we've all heard in action films;PR being the overdoer that she was,like ST said,it was a 'HollyWood-ized ransom note'.Same with the 911 call...kidnapping, ransom note...the drama's pretty far out there for real life.I think she realized that for a moment when she made the call...she started to say,'we have a ran....' and stopped...then said 'there's a note left and our daughter is gone'.But I caught that first, and then only later in the call did PR say it was a ransom note. I think for a moment there,she knew it wouldn't sound beleiveable.
She obviously started to say,'we have a ransom note'.
Listen to the 911 call again if you didn't catch that.
Yes, I listened to it again and detected vaguely "We have a ra.." If you are right, boy could she think fast on her feet.

The one thing on the tape that caught my eye when I first heard it was "We have a kidnapping." said matter of factly. The fast breathing seems to exhibit sudden anxiety like they had just found the note and discovered that their daughter was kidnapped. But the way she said "kidnapping" sounded like it an announcement she needed to get over with. I also wondered why she hung up. I think I would have kept the emergency line on to keep communications and take any further advice. "Hurry, hurry, hurry".... click seems to make it appear that she wanted to get off the line (maybe get over the 911 call).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-11-2006, 05:14 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Evidently whoever did it, IDI or RDI, he KNEW rope would be available in the house, right? And a yellow legal pad, and whatever else. Why carry anything with him that might fall out of his pocket or duffle bag or backpack on the way, or that might be discovered if he were stopped for any traffic violation, tail light not working or something like that? People have been caught that way.

Sure, his having the uncanny ability to imitate PR so well is pretty far-out, but he's a unique kind of perp, or he'd have been caught. PR having the uncanny ability to think of such a note just because she was desperate is just as iffy, it seems to me.

I always enjoy Rupert's posts, the consideration of both sides. And the replies after.

I'm still fishing for a reaction about a perp wanting to "be" JonBenet, or PR, as I guess all actors in theater have to be while onstage. His sleeping in JonBenet's bed and trying to replace JBR in Patsy's affections during the Grand Jury which was evidently making him nervous really brings home to me that's what he was doing, trying to get attention that rightfully belonged to someone else, without revealing his actual ID. Picture it; certainly could and evidently did happen. Many say they haven't read the Patricia Letters, probably available at ACandyRose.

FWIW, I just "may" personally know someone like I'm describing, so please consider it. During the many re-airings of assassinations documentaries, they've said all kinds of nuts infiltrate gov't agencies. I think that makes sense. "Hence" his bragging about being able to monitor and study this family, especially Patsy. Maybe wanted to be a woman??? And/Or a little girl star like JonBenet? Was he obsessed with what might have been if he'd really been born female? And even the omission of the wife/mother in the RN is very familiar to me, a fairly recent phenomenon in some church bulletin mailings. He flatters men, especially leaders, but may behind their backs accuse and get them assassinated, I gather from Holy Writ predictions about the abuse of technology, he's obviously so proud of.

This Nov. 22nd will be another anniversary of the JFK assassination, when we sometimes get something new in the documentaries.

One thing I've never heard emphasized, all the assassination victims were accused posthumously of sexual affairs. JFK had such a bad back, he couldn't duck down in that parade car because of his back brace, and the recordings of Dr. King, "monitoring" him, could have been made in his own home with his own wife but we're supposed to believe it was adultery. Same m.o.'s and number of distractions as in the JonBenet case?

Some of the books said there were 2 to 4 Oswalds. We have at least that many potential suspects about the Ramsey case. Just one of my rambling open-minded opinions. I'll bet you there's some connection.
Cool call on that "uncanny ability". You can take Oxzam's Razor further too. I agree there doesn't seem to be any intruder evidence, so Oxzam's razor says it must have been one of the Ramsays. However, very little blood in the head wound and petechnia along the cord marks suggests to me that JonBenet was viciously garroted first and then head bashed when she was dead. Done carefully without breaking the scalp. A little residual blood pressure allowed about half a teaspoonful of blood to gather in the wound. Yes, there is a slim chance that that the bash came first, Oxzam's Razor says no.

Well, if IDI, it was pure vengeance towards John, but good God, why murder a poor innocent little girl? What is the chance of having a serious case of anger towards John and need to kill the girl at the same time. "We do respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves." At first glance, the author is claiming that he is doing this because he doesn't like the U.S. Yet, he later gets caustic and personal with John. So maybe "bussiness" was spelled wrong to underhandedly mean something else. There was no respect here. One thing about JonBenet, was that she was being groomed to become Miss America. So, maybe the vengeance towards John also included his jeolousy towards JonBenet who was going to represent "the country". Maybe the $1 billion mark and Esprit award made by a self made business man plus the victory of his daughter's pageantry was just all too much for him.

If IDI, then the perp must know alot about leaving absolutely no evidence. Knew how to keep to the sidewalk, let himself in with a key, used whatever material he could find in the house. Knew how to imitate Patsy's writing and thus wrote a long note, knew how to wipe down the batteries. Kind of all fits with the knowledge of kidnap crime movies exhibited in the note.

Even the tape was theatrical. So how did he keep JonBenet quiet? Lou Smit said "stun gun". Could an experienced homicide cop like that be so wrong?

Ah, maybe it was all just due to Patsy's rage and the staging, the talk shows, the unquestionable family support are all just great acting and incredible conspiracy. Apparently, John's going to be on Barbara Walters this December. More of the same or maybe he found a confession only to be read after death? Well, I think they produce those interviews ahead of time, so they will have to keep it mum.

I've got to read the Patricia Letters. I don't know about SBTC = Single Bullet Theory. If the perp had time to read Linburg, Leopold and Loeb, etc., then I guess he might well have delved into the Kennedy Assassination. I learned from some websites that Cyril Wecht doesn't believe Kennedy was killed by the single bullet that went through Connelly. In contrast he thinks JonBenet was RDI.

Ah, maybe it was just a sloppy coverup that just got lucky with the headwound, petechnia, acting, .....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-11-2006, 05:17 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
I wonder why Foster went from being first convinced that PR did not write it to being so convinced she did.
Simple: he hadn't seen any real evidence when he made the first decision.

Quote:
I also wonder if Foster ever considered a forgerer, someone imitating PR. I gathered from Foster's final statements that there are many things (more than just the basics) that led him to believe Patsy wrote the note. Perhaps in his mind Foster ruled out any forgery as well.
Well, the way what he does is set up, no one could forge it, because writing patterns are like fingerprints: no two are exactly alike.

Quote:
Well, perhaps she was overboard with some obvious vengeance towards John. Or perhaps they wrote it together and just threw in everything they could think of to make it look like it was a personal vengeance with multiple suspects.
I think you nailed it on that second one.

Quote:
And how would he know if he would even have time to write one?
That would be the big question.

Quote:
Even the tape was theatrical. So how did he keep JonBenet quiet? Lou Smit said "stun gun". Could an experienced homicide cop like that be so wrong?
Sure looks that way, doesn't it?

Quote:
Yes, there is a slim chance that that the bash came first
Not according to Werner Spitz, among others, who put the head bash at least 20 minutes before the strangling.

Quote:
Ah, maybe it was just a sloppy coverup that just got lucky with the headwound, petechnia, acting,
Better to be lucky than good (with good lawyers).
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-11-2006, 06:25 PM
Show Me Show Me is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 3,837
Don't call the police or we will behead your daughter....behead is a key word and I wonder why the Ramseys ignored the monitoring kidnappers threat and called over a bunch of friends, the pastor etc.


I don't know why a kidnapper, who is also a pedofile felt so comfortable to spend hours killing, abusing and staging JonBenet's body bothered with a ransom note in the first place since the killer didn't take the body out of the house. Funny the killer, if they wanted to shock the Ramseys didn't leave the body on the stairs or livingroom under the tree........no this kidnapper hid the body in a little known room after successfully killing his victim. Didn't take the body away so the killer could collect the money...after all if the Ramseys searched the house from top to bottom, JonBenet was sure to be discovered.

And if the kidnapper didn't want to bring his own 'killing tools' why did he choose PATSY'S sharpe, PATSY'S notepad, PATSY'S paintbrush, etc.

Why not use Burke's John's or JonBenet's or Melissa's or Andrew's or the general house stuff.....why only Patsy's stuff?
__________________
-
My opinion and nothing but my opinion.

Tor:Con Index link below. Will show you the probability of a tornado happening in your area.
http://www.weather.com/news/tornado-torcon-index

FEMA's link for Emergency Supplies list below or what you need to survive for three days in case help is not immediately available to you.
http://www.ready.gov/document/family-supply-list

You can also purchase a weather radio which will inform you of severe weather even if your electricity goes out. Runs on batteries of course.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-11-2006, 06:51 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me
Don't call the police or we will behead your daughter....behead is a key word and I wonder why the Ramseys ignored the monitoring kidnappers threat and called over a bunch of friends, the pastor etc.
Indeed. This one pushes me towards the RDI. Why the pastor indeed? Why not just the Whites? But hey, they were scared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me
Funny the killer, if they wanted to shock the Ramseys didn't leave the body on the stairs or livingroom under the tree........no this kidnapper hid the body in a little known room after successfully killing his victim.
JonBenet was hidden right under their noses. Kind of like the movie "Rope" which is based on the Leopold and Loeb murder, which can be related to in the RN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me
And if the kidnapper didn't want to bring his own 'killing tools' why did he choose PATSY'S sharpe, PATSY'S notepad, PATSY'S paintbrush, etc.
I think the pen and pad were common and in a central place. Paintbrush was down in basement where an intruder could go about his business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me
Why not use Burke's John's or JonBenet's or Melissa's or Andrew's or the general house stuff.....why only Patsy's stuff?
Wasn't Burke's jack knife found down in the cellar?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-11-2006, 11:23 PM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert
Indeed. This one pushes me towards the RDI. Why the pastor indeed? Why not just the Whites? But hey, they were scared.
That reminds me,does anyone think it's odd they didn't call the Stine's and ask them to come over that morning?
It seems the R's did a lot of things to others that they didn't do to/with them.Like they're one of the few they didn't throw under the bus.Also,SS answered police thru an intercom about the 911 call on the 23rd,without letting them in.ODD,IMO....esp. given the fact they moved to Atlanta later on.
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-11-2006, 11:27 PM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert
Yes, I listened to it again and detected vaguely "We have a ra.." If you are right, boy could she think fast on her feet.

The one thing on the tape that caught my eye when I first heard it was "We have a kidnapping." said matter of factly. The fast breathing seems to exhibit sudden anxiety like they had just found the note and discovered that their daughter was kidnapped. But the way she said "kidnapping" sounded like it an announcement she needed to get over with. I also wondered why she hung up. I think I would have kept the emergency line on to keep communications and take any further advice. "Hurry, hurry, hurry".... click seems to make it appear that she wanted to get off the line (maybe get over the 911 call).
Yes,it did all sound theatrical and a bit too planned,IMO.I didn't think too much of the fast breathing,as anyone can hyperventilate.As well as she would obv. have been nervous,guilty or not.But I think the biggest clue is at the end when she says, "Help me, Jesus" 4x.And I think that's why the lawyer's denied she said anything after that..it sounds pretty incriminating,IMO.
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-11-2006, 11:34 PM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert

Even the tape was theatrical. So how did he keep JonBenet quiet? Lou Smit said "stun gun". Could an experienced homicide cop like that be so wrong?
I honestly think Smit was hired(due to his finding an intruder on a previous case) to FIND an intuder on this case,no matter what the evidence showed.So that being what he was hired for,that's what he found...even if it meant he had to twist or ignore some evidence to make that theory work.He was 'doing his job' so to speak.
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-12-2006, 12:56 AM
Rupert Rupert is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO8778
Yes,it did all sound theatrical and a bit too planned,IMO.I didn't think too much of the fast breathing,as anyone can hyperventilate.As well as she would obv. have been nervous,guilty or not.But I think the biggest clue is at the end when she says, "Help me, Jesus" 4x.And I think that's why the lawyer's denied she said anything after that..it sounds pretty incriminating,IMO.
JMO8778,
I don't think Patsy ever said "Help me Jesus" 4 times. That was on the so called "enhanced tape". I have never heard it, have you? I believe it was a feeble attempt by the BPD to get the Ramsay's to confess. The Ramsays never changed their story to say that Burke was at the phone. They said they found out later that he was awake in his bed. I am amazed that people actually believe the enhanced tape is real. No one has ever heard it.

That kind of thing just gets me back on the other side of the fence and makes me want to really find out who did this, because if the Ramsays were set up by one of their friends and then the cops, that is a double whammy. No wonder they were advised to "lawyer up".
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-12-2006, 02:02 AM
JMO8778's Avatar
JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
..at the beach!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert
JMO8778,
I don't think Patsy ever said "Help me Jesus" 4 times. That was on the so called "enhanced tape". I have never heard it, have you? I believe it was a feeble attempt by the BPD to get the Ramsay's to confess. The Ramsays never changed their story to say that Burke was at the phone. They said they found out later that he was awake in his bed. I am amazed that people actually believe the enhanced tape is real. No one has ever heard it.

That kind of thing just gets me back on the other side of the fence and makes me want to really find out who did this, because if the Ramsays were set up by one of their friends and then the cops, that is a double whammy. No wonder they were advised to "lawyer up".
Yes,you can hear her at the end on the unenhanced tape.I don't think any of it was a ploy.See my sig...Aerospace says they stand behind their work on it.
The R's did change their story after the enhancement came out...they admitted BR was awake.IMO they got caught and had to.
They said he was crying and upset.They didn't say he*got up,but,I don't think he would have laid there and cried without trying to find out what was going on.I think it was a lawyer tactic..admit he was awake, but don't say he got up.(trying to walk a line bet. the real story and the lie).
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 AM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!