Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Crimes and Trials > Trials

Notices

Trials Current Trials In the news


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:42 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Shawn Hornbeck/Ben Ownby General Case Discusssion

Jeana was right, the last thread became too long. Sometimes we need a thread to post to that doesn't fit the subject of other threads on the Board.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2007, 03:45 PM
Leila's Avatar
Leila Leila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,447
Thanks Tom'sGirl for starting this thread!

I have a question and don't want to mess up the Legal Proceedings thread with a question that might lead to speculation and opinion.

Am I correct that although Devlin's plea is "not guilty" in the kidnapping of Ben and of Shawn in both Franklin and Washington counties, he did initially admit to kidnapping Ben? And, when the St. Louis County prosecutor filed the 71 charges on Monday, one of the articles stated that Devlin admitted to those charges.

My question........is it a matter legally that Devlin is guilty, but will use those "not guilty" pleas in an attempt to mitigate his sentence to the lesser of two evils, state prison versus mental hospital?

I'm reminded of John Hinckley, the man who attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. His defense argued for Hinckley to be placed in a mental hospital. Hinckley has been institutionalized in a mental hospital ever since, but in recent years has been given lengthy passes out of the hospital to visit with his parents and relatives. At some point, he may be allowed to remain out of the hospital. I'd hate to think of Devlin ever getting the opportunity to be released from a mental hospital

The prosecutors in the case don't have to agree to any plea bargaining, but if they don't, doesn't that mean that there has to be a trial?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-2007, 03:49 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leila
Thanks Tom'sGirl for starting this thread!

I have a question and don't want to mess up the Legal Proceedings thread with a question that might lead to speculation and opinion.

Am I correct that although Devlin's plea is "not guilty" in the kidnapping of Ben and of Shawn in both Franklin and Washington counties, he did initially admit to kidnapping Ben? And, when the St. Louis County prosecutor filed the 71 charges on Monday, one of the articles stated that Devlin admitted to those charges.

My question........is it a matter legally that Devlin is guilty, but will use those "not guilty" pleas in an attempt to mitigate his sentence to the lesser of two evils, state prison versus mental hospital?

I'm reminded of John Hinckley, the man who attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. His defense argued for Hinckley to be placed in a mental hospital. Hinckley has been institutionalized in a mental hospital ever since, but in recent years has been given lengthy passes out of the hospital to visit with his parents and relatives. At some point, he may be allowed to remain out of the hospital. I'd hate to think of Devlin ever getting the opportunity to be released from a mental hospital

The prosecutors in the case don't have to agree to any plea bargaining, but if they don't, doesn't that mean that there has to be a trial?
There are many here who are well versed in the law (I'm not one of them) that could answer that question..............anyone???


ETA: I dug this up from an old article:

UNION, Missouri (CNN) -- Pizza manager Michael J. Devlin admitted to police that he snatched a 13-year-old Missouri boy, a prosecutor said Thursday.

"When Mr. Devlin was taken into custody, he did confess that he had kidnapped Ben Ownby from Franklin County," prosecutor Robert Parks said.

Devlin, 41, pleaded not guilty to kidnapping a child under age 14 at a hearing Thursday. The boy was referred to in court by his initials, "W.O.

"I'm not guilty," Devlin said during a brief appearance via video link from the county jail. The charge carries a maximum penalty of 30 years to life in prison.

Security concerns kept Devlin from appearing in person before Judge David Tobin at the Franklin County Courthouse. He is being held in isolation on $1 million bail.

Devlin's attorneys said the not guilty plea was a procedural matter. They would not comment on the alleged confession, which was revealed after the hearing.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/01/18/devlin.hearing/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-07-2007, 05:29 PM
WhiteWolf WhiteWolf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,308
A question: Does anyone know how far MD's apartment is from his parent's house?

The reason I'm asking is because I've wondered if there was any way MD could have taken Shawn by his parents' house (right before his surgery) so Shawn could sneak over there during the night to hide in Devlin's room. Devlin's parents are elderly, and depending on how MD's bedroom was set up compared to the rest of the house, maybe it's a possibility?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-07-2007, 07:50 PM
smalltowngal smalltowngal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 126
Mental Insitution

Am I thinking right on this? It was said by someone on Nancy Grace. Some lady nancy was interviewing. That she would like to see Delvin go to a mental instioution. Well don't you have to be proven mentally incomp. to use in insanity defense? Well when Delvin stated he didn't know what he was going to tell his parents. By him saying that shows that he knows he did wrong. So he knew the difference between right and wrong. To use the insanity defense you can't distinguish between right and wrong. Isn't this right? TY
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:37 PM
Gina_M's Avatar
Gina_M Gina_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenixville, PA
Posts: 1,606
Pleading "Not Guilty"

Franklin County Prosecuting Attorney Robert Parks said Devlin confessed to kidnapping Ownby when he was arrested. But Devlinís attorneys, Ethan Corlija and Michael Kielty, said a guilty plea is not an option. Devlin appeared before Judge David Tobin. Corlija said Tobin has no authority as an associate circuit judge under Missouri law to accept a guilty plea.

http://www.courthousenews.com/Jump.Jan.18.htm

I think it's just a technicality at this point...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:40 PM
Gina_M's Avatar
Gina_M Gina_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenixville, PA
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalltowngal
Am I thinking right on this? It was said by someone on Nancy Grace. Some lady nancy was interviewing. That she would like to see Delvin go to a mental instioution. Well don't you have to be proven mentally incomp. to use in insanity defense? Well when Delvin stated he didn't know what he was going to tell his parents. By him saying that shows that he knows he did wrong. So he knew the difference between right and wrong. To use the insanity defense you can't distinguish between right and wrong. Isn't this right? TY
From what I know about the insanity defense, you're right, it's an issue of knowing right from wrong. I don't think Devlin is legally insane...just sick and perverted.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:44 PM
Gina_M's Avatar
Gina_M Gina_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenixville, PA
Posts: 1,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWolf
A question: Does anyone know how far MD's apartment is from his parent's house?

The reason I'm asking is because I've wondered if there was any way MD could have taken Shawn by his parents' house (right before his surgery) so Shawn could sneak over there during the night to hide in Devlin's room. Devlin's parents are elderly, and depending on how MD's bedroom was set up compared to the rest of the house, maybe it's a possibility?
I don't have the parents' address, but from what I remember, they live in Webster Groves. According to Yahoo Driving Directions , Webster Groves is about 3 miles away from Kirkwood.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:45 PM
shergal shergal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,053
Just saw this on CNN..hope this is the right place to post it

They've just discovered a huge pornography ring online:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

This could help in this case and many others discussed on here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:56 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by shergal
They've just discovered a huge pornography ring online:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

This could help in this case and many others discussed on here.
I got that alert this morning also shergal. To think how many are out there that they haven't discovered is really mind bending isn't it? The thought that maybe someone could be a neighbor on a computer doing this is also scary!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-07-2007, 09:34 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gina_M
I don't have the parents' address, but from what I remember, they live in Webster Groves. According to Yahoo Driving Directions , Webster Groves is about 3 miles away from Kirkwood.
Both Rose Hill and Florence Avenue are listed for the senior Devilins, Joyce & James. You can't really go by addresses listed, as they group all possible family members at each address.

However the Rose Hill zip code is for Kirkwood, and the one for the Florence address is the zip code for Webster Groves, which is 4 miles from MD's apartment.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-08-2007, 11:03 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 27,155
I see a lot of media links on this thread. Just want to remind everyone that there is a sticky above that is limited to ONLY media links should anyone want to add their's on it instead of taking the risk that an important one might be lost in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
As we wait for more information to come forward, or be released to answer our questions I hope the following will be answered.
  • How/why did Michael Devlin choose Shawn to abduct, was it random or had he been watching him?
Am I the only one who has wondered this???
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:14 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Just got this online

Bill O'Reilly Removed from NCMEC Speaker Gig
By Steve Huff(Steve Huff)
Bill O'Reilly's execrable statements made shortly after the recovery of Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby have come back to haunt him again. After O'Reilly's statements, Keith Olbermann pointed out the fact that O'Reilly was scheduled to be ...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:51 PM
Leila's Avatar
Leila Leila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom'sGirl
As we wait for more information to come forward, or be released to answer our questions I hope the following will be answered.

  • How/why did Michael Devlin choose Shawn to abduct, was it random or had he been watching him?
Am I the only one who has wondered this???
Good point! I've wondered if Devlin watched Shawn for a period of time, trying to determine his approximate age, if he regularly rode his bike alone, if he took the same route when he rode his bike.

Shaw was in little league. Did Devlin attend a local little league game and observe the boys playing and picked Shawn out?

Also.......with Ben........did Devlin watch the school bus for a few days and see who got off the bus and if they walked alone? Also trying to make a visual sizing up - did Ben fit his preferred age?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-09-2007, 08:25 PM
Liz's Avatar
Liz Liz is offline
I am not a chemist and this is not my 1st rodeo
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northwest
Posts: 25,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom'sGirl
Bill O'Reilly Removed from NCMEC Speaker Gig
By Steve Huff(Steve Huff)
Bill O'Reilly's execrable statements made shortly after the recovery of Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby have come back to haunt him again. After O'Reilly's statements, Keith Olbermann pointed out the fact that O'Reilly was scheduled to be ...

I'm almost to death of reading about BOR as related to the SH/BO cases. Huff has repeatedly vowed not to bring up BOR again, but repeatedly continues to do so. It is getting SO old. Websites and shows seemingly feeding off of BOR's poor judgement. O'Reilly said practically the same things that many other media publications and people published and/or said (in fact, some said worse!), and yet nothing from anyone about any of them! Heh! So there!

Nothing personal against you or anyone else posting, TG! JUST voicing MY OPINION!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-09-2007, 09:13 PM
HeartofTexas HeartofTexas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,330
I'm thrilled BOR is still getting negative coverage for his remarks. I hope he ultimately loses his TV show. IMO, he is a bottom feeder of the worst kind and is one of the most hypocritical pieces of chit to come down the pike in years.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-09-2007, 09:15 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz
I'm almost to death of reading about BOR as related to the SH/BO cases. Huff has repeatedly vowed not to bring up BOR again, but repeatedly continues to do so. It is getting SO old. Websites and shows seemingly feeding off of BOR's poor judgement. O'Reilly said practically the same things that many other media publications and people published and/or said (in fact, some said worse!), and yet nothing from anyone about any of them! Heh! So there!

Nothing personal against you or anyone else posting, TG! JUST voicing MY OPINION!
I didn't take it personally Liz.

Steve Huff/misterallgood at this Board was only posting the latest as far as BOR being the NCMERC speaker.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-09-2007, 09:27 PM
Liz's Avatar
Liz Liz is offline
I am not a chemist and this is not my 1st rodeo
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northwest
Posts: 25,623
That's good, Tom'sGirl. I didn't think you would.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-09-2007, 10:39 PM
MerleGirlTX MerleGirlTX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom'sGirl
Bill O'Reilly Removed from NCMEC Speaker Gig
By Steve Huff(Steve Huff)
Bill O'Reilly's execrable statements made shortly after the recovery of Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby have come back to haunt him again. After O'Reilly's statements, Keith Olbermann pointed out the fact that O'Reilly was scheduled to be ...
FABULOUS!!!! Best news today! I was very surprised when I read they had not canned him yet and were considering keeping him on. John Walsh is a FANTASTIC choice!!!! WOOOHOOO! Thank you for the update Tom'sGirl!

As for the earlier post about if Shawn/Ben were random or had been stalked, I have been very interested in that question myself.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-09-2007, 11:21 PM
smalltowngal smalltowngal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 126
IMO I think the boy's were stalked. It's been said that MD picked out boy's that were very young looking, around the same age group, small built boy's. We may never know. I have been thinking well started thinking about it when I 1st heard about the sodomy charges. I was thinking that if this happened to one of my kids I wouldn't want it broad casted all over the world. These are young boy's with their whole life ahead of them. I know the charges are against MD. This is going to follow the boy's the rest of their lives. I don't know the law and I know their are alot of very smart people on here so my question is can they keep some of the things out of the news? Like I said, I know the charges were brought against MD. But it's going to effect the boy's also. Anyway, that's what I feel anyway. Thanx
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:11 PM
Tom'sGirl Tom'sGirl is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SO CALIFORNIA
Posts: 11,909
I posted a link today regarding the question of who took care of Shawn following Michael Devlin's toe/s surgery.

From everything I read MD was off for three months from work and supposedly was at his parents house according to his IMO boss.

In this video it says he was at his parents house for 10 days following the surgery. Am I the only one confused on this
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:29 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,726
Nope, Tom's Girls. I think it is odd how 10 days = 3 months also.


Lion
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:35 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerleGirlTX
FABULOUS!!!! Best news today! I was very surprised when I read they had not canned him yet and were considering keeping him on. John Walsh is a FANTASTIC choice!!!! WOOOHOOO! Thank you for the update Tom'sGirl!

As for the earlier post about if Shawn/Ben were random or had been stalked, I have been very interested in that question myself.
I feel as you do MerleGirlTX. I am glad that O'Reilly was booted; but, for it to be John Walsh instead is fantastic. I am still amazed at how he turned something so tragic into absolute justice and good deeds. He is tough as fiery nails on pedo perps and other criminals, yet he has true deep compassion and understanding for victims.

Lion
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-14-2007, 07:23 PM
WhiteWolf WhiteWolf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom'sGirl
I posted a link today regarding the question of who took care of Shawn following Michael Devlin's toe/s surgery.

From everything I read MD was off for three months from work and supposedly was at his parents house according to his IMO boss.

In this video it says he was at his parents house for 10 days following the surgery. Am I the only one confused on this

Thanks for the new info. It makes more sense that Devlin was only at his parent's house for 10 days. Shawn was probably already brainwashed and terrified that he could have conceiveably been trusted to stay at the apartment alone. TV dinners, soup, and junk food to survive on. I also suggested Devlin may have figured a way to have Shawn walk to Devlin's parent's house and sneak him into his room. His parents were in their 70's so it is possible Devlin's room was isolated enough from the rest of the house.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 AM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!