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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #1  
Old 05-31-2007, 09:13 PM
Tober Tober is offline
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Ramsey Protection

I would like to hear theories on the following: Why was a "plan of protection" initiated, established, and enforced on the Ramsey's behalf? Why does this plan of protection remain in place to this day? Just what is it that would have been exposed if the evidence were followed to whom it leads and the case prosecuted?
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:12 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "plan of protection", but if the evidence led to the involvement of their 9-year old son BR, Colorado law forbids a child under 10 from being charged with any crime, and they are also prevented from charging anyone else in that crime if it would mean releasing the identity of that child. (at least that's how I understand it).
Is this what you mean? That the R's are being protected from prosecution by LE not being allowed to follow where the evidence leads?
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
Is this what you mean? That the R's are being protected from prosecution by LE not being allowed to follow where the evidence leads?
Yes. A number of individuals in positions of authority (as that authority relates to this case) have risked their careers and previously good reputations by their decisions to "protect" the Ramseys in spite of the evidence pointing to the Ramsey's involvement in the crime. Just how powerful was John Ramsey? What in the world would have been revealed had this crime been prosecuted? I would assume much more than the killer's identity.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:38 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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Very powerful. Or rather- his LAWYERS were very powerful. They were a very big part of the Colorado (and Washington, DC) Democratic political scene. Those same lawyers were also involved in business, personal and social relationships (like Country Club memberships, etc) with the District Attorney's office. Hunter should have recused himself at ONCE from that case and appointed a special prosecutor.
The R lawyers leaned heavily on the DA's office in this case.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
Very powerful. Or rather- his LAWYERS were very powerful. They were a very big part of the Colorado (and Washington, DC) Democratic political scene. Those same lawyers were also involved in business, personal and social relationships (like Country Club memberships, etc) with the District Attorney's office. Hunter should have recused himself at ONCE from that case and appointed a special prosecutor.
The R lawyers leaned heavily on the DA's office in this case.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:08 AM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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So to answer the original question- THIS is why the case went nowhere. It was stonewalled from day 1.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:50 AM
coloradokares coloradokares is offline
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So to answer the original question- THIS is why the case went nowhere. It was stonewalled from day 1.
The Mideyttes are just now being finally held to account and not for murder but abuse. Aslo another powerful family. That baby was horrendously abused countless broken bones I am so embarased over the latest sex education scandal Boulder is like no other place on earth. We are not like these examples But a few select powerful few are.. to our shame
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
So to answer the original question- THIS is why the case went nowhere. It was stonewalled from day 1.
I agree with ya DeeDee. If there was any evidence Burke was involved, the case was closed cause of the Colorado law regarding charging children under 10.
But, I still wonder if that's the case, why would Boulder LE continue to investigate the case? That takes money and manpower.
Yes, the case was stonewalled and IMO bungled by an inexperienced police force from the 911 call on.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tober View Post
I would like to hear theories on the following: Why was a "plan of protection" initiated, established, and enforced on the Ramsey's behalf? Why does this plan of protection remain in place to this day? Just what is it that would have been exposed if the evidence were followed to whom it leads and the case prosecuted?
Tober,

Their lawyers and their money.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2007, 09:10 AM
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It's not fair to blame the entire police force. It was John Eller that told responding officers to treat the Rs as victims and not as suspects. I guarantee you had one like Steve Thomas been on the scene that day instead of Linda Arndt (who had been trained on handling victims), things would have gone down differently. Imo, Arndt was intentionally left there alone for as long as she was, and it should be no surprise to anyone that she later became the scapegoat.

Yes, the police bungling the case form the 911 call on was a travesty, but just as bad were the Ramseys lawyering up and hiding behind their attorneys, refusing to interview with police while details were still fresh in their minds. The Rs displayed a SHOCKING lack of interest in cooperating with police to solve this case, more so than any other parents of a murdered child I have ever seen, and I believe some of the burden of this case still being unsolved should fall directly on the shoulders of the Ramseys, who had every obligation to JonBenet to see her murder solved, killer apprehended, and justice served.

Then they went and hired investigators not to search for the killer - but to keep them out of jail. Hello? Who's the most important here? JonBenet? Oh, hell, no - it's John and Patsy Ramsey. Even that book they wrote is nothing but self-serving crap, designed to pimp their image of wholesome goodness and abject innocence.

They should have been thinking of their baby lying in her GRAVE instead of their next appearance on The 700 Club, or wallpapering their new kitchen with PINEAPPLE wallpaper.
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tober View Post
Yes. A number of individuals in positions of authority (as that authority relates to this case) have risked their careers and previously good reputations by their decisions to "protect" the Ramseys in spite of the evidence pointing to the Ramsey's involvement in the crime. Just how powerful was John Ramsey? What in the world would have been revealed had this crime been prosecuted? I would assume much more than the killer's identity.
Even someone like Dr. Beuf suddenly became unprofessional and/or corrupt. Why would that happen in a case like this. That is a great question, what is going on here?

My guess is there was nothing sinister about it, they just wanted to protect the killer's identity. I think the Colorado legal community knew the reputation of the Boulder DA and they knew Chief Koby could be found out talking to dandelions. They sensed a weakness and they flexed their muscle.

I wonder if at times John Ramsey didn't enjoy it. Sort of the equivalent of walking into a room and unplugging a vacuum cleaner being used by someone obviously far beneath him.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2007, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
It's not fair to blame the entire police force. It was John Eller that told responding officers to treat the Rs as victims and not as suspects. I guarantee you had one like Steve Thomas been on the scene that day instead of Linda Arndt (who had been trained on handling victims), things would have gone down differently. Imo, Arndt was intentionally left there alone for as long as she was, and it should be no surprise to anyone that she later became the scapegoat.

Yes, the police bungling the case form the 911 call on was a travesty, but just as bad were the Ramseys lawyering up and hiding behind their attorneys, refusing to interview with police while details were still fresh in their minds. The Rs displayed a SHOCKING lack of interest in cooperating with police to solve this case, more so than any other parents of a murdered child I have ever seen, and I believe some of the burden of this case still being unsolved should fall directly on the shoulders of the Ramseys, who had every obligation to JonBenet to see her murder solved, killer apprehended, and justice served.

Then they went and hired investigators not to search for the killer - but to keep them out of jail. Hello? Who's the most important here? JonBenet? Oh, hell, no - it's John and Patsy Ramsey. Even that book they wrote is nothing but self-serving crap, designed to pimp their image of wholesome goodness and abject innocence.

They should have been thinking of their baby lying in her GRAVE instead of their next appearance on The 700 Club, or wallpapering their new kitchen with PINEAPPLE wallpaper.
It is interesting that you speak of who is important here. I was reading DOI last night and John speaks exactly to that as JonBenet being the victim and that she is the one everyone should be thinking about. They do say the right thing. These two have no honor at all. None.

He also says in the first few pages that the police were not discreet when they arrived. I also notice they do not address any of the fiber evidence. I am not finished and was wondering, does anyone know if he or she addresses the fiber evidence? Thanks
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert18
I wonder if at times John Ramsey didn't enjoy it. Sort of the equivalent of walking into a room and unplugging a vacuum cleaner being used by someone obviously far beneath him.
And who does crap like that? How much of a jerk do you have to be to just walk up the outlet and yank out the cord of the vacuum, without saying anything at all, while the woman YOU hired to clean up YOUR freaking mess is trying to do her job?

The polite thing to do would have been get her attention and kindly ask her to wait to vacuum until a time when it isn't going to affect you so much.

I think JR probably didn't enjoy it at first, but grew to - once he was more and more certain that they were getting away with murder. When I saw him on LKL in December, he was positively smug.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2007, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
And who does crap like that? How much of a jerk do you have to be to just walk up the outlet and yank out the cord of the vacuum, without saying anything at all, while the woman YOU hired to clean up YOUR freaking mess is trying to do her job?

The polite thing to do would have been get her attention and kindly ask her to wait to vacuum until a time when it isn't going to affect you so much.

I think JR probably didn't enjoy it at first, but grew to - once he was more and more certain that they were getting away with murder. When I saw him on LKL in December, he was positively smug.
It is an interesting way of dealing with it. It is in my way, get rid of it now.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2007, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is interesting that you speak of who is important here. I was reading DOI last night and John speaks exactly to that as JonBenet being the victim and that she is the one everyone should be thinking about. They do say the right thing. These two have no honor at all. None.

He also says in the first few pages that the police were not discreet when they arrived. I also notice they do not address any of the fiber evidence. I am not finished and was wondering, does anyone know if he or she addresses the fiber evidence? Thanks
UGH! They just said that in DOI because they knew that's what their audience expected them to say. Their actions tell a different story. JB's so important to them that they can't be bothered to sit down with LE and answer questions only they can provide details for.

Maybe police weren't discreet upon arrival because Patsy completely FAILED to mention the very dire death threats made against her daughter when she called 911. That would have been the first thing out of my mouth - "They said they'll cut her head if I call you, so PLEASE don't let them know!!!" Why would you call 911 about a ransom note and not even tell them that your baby's life has been threatened if you tell anyone - and then call your friends over? Why would you want to jeopardize your friends' safety, etc, by insisting they come to a house that's been hit by a kidnapper who says he's still watching and will kill? I love how the Rs want to blame others for crap they did to themselves, like hiring the attorneys and refusing to talk to LE. God, they suck.
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2007, 10:51 AM
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UGH! They just said that in DOI because they knew that's what their audience expected them to say. Their actions tell a different story. JB's so important to them that they can't be bothered to sit down with LE and answer questions only they can provide details for.

Maybe police weren't discreet upon arrival because Patsy completely FAILED to mention the very dire death threats made against her daughter when she called 911. That would have been the first thing out of my mouth - "They said they'll cut her head if I call you, so PLEASE don't let them know!!!" Why would you call 911 about a ransom note and not even tell them that your baby's life has been threatened if you tell anyone - and then call your friends over? Why would you want to jeopardize your friends' safety, etc, by insisting they come to a house that's been hit by a kidnapper who says he's still watching and will kill? I love how the Rs want to blame others for crap they did to themselves, like hiring the attorneys and refusing to talk to LE. God, they suck.
What is incredible to me is that they have the audacity to write this book. To me, that is what makes this case so fascinating - they do not keep a low profile.
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:30 AM
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I know, Solace!!! It's unbelievable, the amount of nerve they have. Even more unbelievable is that people read that DOI claptrap and come away with a favorable impression of the Rs!

I've considered writing a book about the JBR case...not about the case itself, but about the baffling epidemic of loyalty in the IDI and need to see them as innocent, and outright refusal to accept evidence against them as fact (such as saying Levin was lying about the existence of fiber evidence to coerce them into confession, where there's nothing about the interview to indicate that would be the case.) Imo, there's no reason to believe Levin was making up the fiber evidence unless one realizes how damning it is (they do) and simply cannot accept that there's evidence tying the Rs directly to the crime scene and the body (they can't.)

I'd sure to include the Ramsey method of presenting an innocent image - say it often, say it loud, and people (who haven't studied the case in depth) will believe you.

It's an endlessly fascinating study of behavior.
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
It's not fair to blame the entire police force. It was John Eller that told responding officers to treat the Rs as victims and not as suspects. I guarantee you had one like Steve Thomas been on the scene that day instead of Linda Arndt (who had been trained on handling victims), things would have gone down differently. Imo, Arndt was intentionally left there alone for as long as she was, and it should be no surprise to anyone that she later became the scapegoat.

Yes, the police bungling the case form the 911 call on was a travesty, but just as bad were the Ramseys lawyering up and hiding behind their attorneys, refusing to interview with police while details were still fresh in their minds. The Rs displayed a SHOCKING lack of interest in cooperating with police to solve this case, more so than any other parents of a murdered child I have ever seen, and I believe some of the burden of this case still being unsolved should fall directly on the shoulders of the Ramseys, who had every obligation to JonBenet to see her murder solved, killer apprehended, and justice served.

Then they went and hired investigators not to search for the killer - but to keep them out of jail. Hello? Who's the most important here? JonBenet? Oh, hell, no - it's John and Patsy Ramsey. Even that book they wrote is nothing but self-serving crap, designed to pimp their image of wholesome goodness and abject innocence.

They should have been thinking of their baby lying in her GRAVE instead of their next appearance on The 700 Club, or wallpapering their new kitchen with PINEAPPLE wallpaper.


well-said

I have a hard time believing either of them are/were remorseful at all.And I think the ones who back them up yet secretly know,after looking at the evidence,that they're guilty(like Tracey,for one) are just as guilty as well.One day they'll be held accountable for that though..and no excuse is ever going to be good enough.......
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something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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Old 06-01-2007, 11:46 AM
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Thanks, JMO. I think Patsy was truly sorry that JonBenet was gone, but not for unselfish reasons.

I think she was sorry her days of pageantry and playing dress up with her live doll were done.

I think she honestly missed JonBenet, but more because she was lonely for JB to keep her company and give her validation than because it meant JB was missing out on living her life.

I definitely think she was sorry that it ruined the lives for herself and the rest of the Ramseys, dropping them into a world of suspicion and notoriety they still haven't come out of - but it couldn't have bothered her that much, because neither she nor John ever did all they could to end the suspicion and clear the Ramsey name.

I also believe that anyone who has helped the RST make a dead child secondary to what John and Patsy Ramsey wanted for their own selfish hides is as guilty as the person who killed that defenseless child.

This is what I always say about Steve Thomas - he can look at himself in the mirror and go to sleep at night with a clear conscience - because he did everything in his power to serve JonBenet the justice she deserves, right down to exposing the corruption in the DA's office with his book. He crusaded for her harder than her own parents did. Even the Rs had to admit he was truly dedicated to her and did all he could for her. Too bad that can't be said for everyone else on the case, including John and Patsy Ramsey.
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Old 06-01-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is interesting that you speak of who is important here. I was reading DOI last night and John speaks exactly to that as JonBenet being the victim and that she is the one everyone should be thinking about. They do say the right thing. These two have no honor at all. None.

He also says in the first few pages that the police were not discreet when they arrived. I also notice they do not address any of the fiber evidence. I am not finished and was wondering, does anyone know if he or she addresses the fiber evidence? Thanks
no,not at all.
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something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
What is incredible to me is that they have the audacity to write this book. To me, that is what makes this case so fascinating - they do not keep a low profile.
yes,shows how desperate they are to appear innocent.
I can only imagine some close to the case or to the R's(like Stuart Long) just shaking their head when they read that book.
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something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2007, 12:02 PM
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JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
Thanks, JMO. I think Patsy was truly sorry that JonBenet was gone, but not for unselfish reasons.

I think she was sorry her days of pageantry and playing dress up with her live doll were done.

I think she honestly missed JonBenet, but more because she was lonely for JB to keep her company and give her validation than because it meant JB was missing out on living her life.

I definitely think she was sorry that it ruined the lives for herself and the rest of the Ramseys, dropping them into a world of suspicion and notoriety they still haven't come out of - but it couldn't have bothered her that much, because neither she nor John ever did all they could to end the suspicion and clear the Ramsey name.

I also believe that anyone who has helped the RST make a dead child secondary to what John and Patsy Ramsey wanted for their own selfish hides is as guilty as the person who killed that defenseless child.

This is what I always say about Steve Thomas - he can look at himself in the mirror and go to sleep at night with a clear conscience - because he did everything in his power to serve JonBenet the justice she deserves, right down to exposing the corruption in the DA's office with his book. He crusaded for her harder than her own parents did. Even the Rs had to admit he was truly dedicated to her and did all he could for her. Too bad that can't be said for everyone else on the case, including John and Patsy Ramsey.
Amen,all of it,couldn't have said it better.
I don't know how some of these ppl sleep at night,I really don't.
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something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2007, 12:06 PM
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JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
I know, Solace!!! It's unbelievable, the amount of nerve they have. Even more unbelievable is that people read that DOI claptrap and come away with a favorable impression of the Rs!

I've considered writing a book about the JBR case...not about the case itself, but about the baffling epidemic of loyalty in the IDI and need to see them as innocent, and outright refusal to accept evidence against them as fact (such as saying Levin was lying about the existence of fiber evidence to coerce them into confession, where there's nothing about the interview to indicate that would be the case.) Imo, there's no reason to believe Levin was making up the fiber evidence unless one realizes how damning it is (they do) and simply cannot accept that there's evidence tying the Rs directly to the crime scene and the body (they can't.)

I'd sure to include the Ramsey method of presenting an innocent image - say it often, say it loud, and people (who haven't studied the case in depth) will believe you.

It's an endlessly fascinating study of behavior.
It is,and that would be great,I hope you do write a book,and I also hope someone writes one on the Karr fiasco,maybe Thomas would be a good one for that?
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something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57

Last edited by JMO8778; 06-01-2007 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2007, 12:10 PM
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JMO8778 JMO8778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
And who does crap like that? How much of a jerk do you have to be to just walk up the outlet and yank out the cord of the vacuum, without saying anything at all, while the woman YOU hired to clean up YOUR freaking mess is trying to do her job?

The polite thing to do would have been get her attention and kindly ask her to wait to vacuum until a time when it isn't going to affect you so much.

I think JR probably didn't enjoy it at first, but grew to - once he was more and more certain that they were getting away with murder. When I saw him on LKL in December, he was positively smug.
yes,it seems to have appealed to his ego..he seems to think he must be somebody really important to have gotten away with it.
I see him only as a lying,washed up ex-CEO.
__________________
something to ponder:

When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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  #25  
Old 06-01-2007, 04:06 PM
BOESP BOESP is offline
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Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter View Post
Even that book they wrote is nothing but self-serving crap, designed to pimp their image of wholesome goodness and abject innocence.
Is it just me or did the cover photo for DOI seem contrived and prissy? That cover turned me off before I even started reading the book. Grieving parents would have had a nice photograph of JonBenet on the cover. Why in the world didn't they use that shot of her that was on the back cover and confine their faces to a 1x1 shot on the inside back flap of the dust jacket like most authors do????
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