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Princess Blue Unidentified Female found Sept. 10, 1990 in Brazoria County, Texas


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  #276  
Old 10-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Earthbound Misfit I's Avatar
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Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?
 
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Lion,

Right now we are twiddling our thumbs waiting for comparison DNA results on Kimberly Cheatham and Princess Blue. Hopefully they have actually begun this process. I have still been doing some mailing out of letters to 1975 REL Class Alumni and also been trying to find any other possibles for Princess Blue in case she turns out not to be Kim we will have another direction to go. Do you have any ideas of what we should be trying to accomplish while we are waiting??

Also, we are trying to see if we might be allowed to find a resting place (we are trying to figure out what would be a good place for this would be) for Princess Blue and will probably be setting up a Paypal site for donations to pay for plot and headstone, etc.
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*******************************************
Princess Blue
Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
Princess Blue Forum to find out.

***************************************
Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

******************************************
  #277  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:52 PM
Jaded Jaded is offline
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I received an email from the University, and am waiting to hear from them if we would be allowed to lay Princess Blue to rest somewhere. I'll let you all know when and if we find out anything about that.

We are planning on also setting up a reward fund for information on Kimberly. As RK said, we're kind of hanging in limbo right now waiting for DNA results. I have emailed the detective a few times, and guess I'll bug him again to ask at what stage this process is.
  #278  
Old 10-22-2007, 10:33 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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I think your plan is spot on, RKnowley and Jaded. Sometimes DNA results can take many months to materialize, so I will try to think of anything else we can work on in the meantime.

Jaded, hopefully you will hear some positive info back from Sergeant Coffman.

Boy, is it good to be back!

Lion
  #279  
Old 10-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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I have never posted in this thread but have been keeping a close eye on developments. I know that in the previous thread some of you expressed an interest in learning more about DNA and matters such as this. I would love to help anyone who is still interested. I was thinking of drawing up a "lecture" about basic DNA and then maybe some more advanced topics. Let me know if anyone is interested in this.
  #280  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:13 PM
Earthbound Misfit I's Avatar
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Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?
 
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I am recapping here for my own sanity, lol

A Mystery Begins
Princess Blue’s skeletal remains were found at a known dumpsite off a county road (located near the juncture of County Road 101 and 288) in Manvel, Texas, on September 10, 1990. Manvel, Texas is located just south of Houston in Brazoria County. Her precise date of death is unknown. While it may have been as long ago as the 1970s, it was more likely in the late 1980s to early 1990. At the time of her death, she would have been 16 to 22 years old.

An Important Clue
One item found at the scene was a 1975 class ring from Robert E. Lee High School in Houston, Texas. It is a classic style silver or white gold banded ladies ring with one blue (sapphire colored) cabochon (completely smooth/ovaled) stone in the center. The stone is most likely a synthetic sapphire, with an "L" inlaid into it. The ring is a size 9½ and has been resized twice. We do not know if it was up-sized or down-sized.

The ring may have belonged to her, or to a family member such as her mother or older sister, or to a friend.


Vital Statistics
  • Race: Caucasian, with possible mixed ethnic heritage (it is likely one parent or one grandparent was African-American)
  • Estimated age: 16 to 22 years old
  • Approximate Height and Weight: 4'10" to 5'3" with a slight to medium build
  • Hair color: Unknown
  • Eye color: Unknown
  • Distinguishing Characteristics: The victim possibly had a tumor on her knee. We are currently trying to find out which knee, and if it is possible that the anomaly could have resulted from an injury, disease, or previous surgery. We found out recently there may not have been a pre-mortem anomaly to her knee.
  • Dentals: Dental information available
  • DNA: In CODIS
  • Jewelry:
    1 ring (gold band) with 6 clear stones
    2 thin silver band rings
    1 silver ring band with a scroll design
    1 Robert E. Lee High School ring (1975) with a blue stone and inlaid L under the stone
    1 silver ring with a turquoise unicorn
    1 pearl-beaded bracelet
Date of Death: Unknown. It is possible that her body was at the Brazoria County location since the 1970s, but was more likely placed there in the late 1980s to early 1990.
__________________
*******************************************
Princess Blue
Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
Princess Blue Forum to find out.

***************************************
Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

******************************************
  #281  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:16 PM
Earthbound Misfit I's Avatar
Earthbound Misfit I Earthbound Misfit I is offline
Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?
 
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I would love to learn more about DNA. Thank you for asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
I have never posted in this thread but have been keeping a close eye on developments. I know that in the previous thread some of you expressed an interest in learning more about DNA and matters such as this. I would love to help anyone who is still interested. I was thinking of drawing up a "lecture" about basic DNA and then maybe some more advanced topics. Let me know if anyone is interested in this.
__________________
*******************************************
Princess Blue
Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
Princess Blue Forum to find out.

***************************************
Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

******************************************
  #282  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:20 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKnowley View Post
I would love to learn more about DNA. Thank you for asking.
Great! I will try to work on something tomorrow. If there are any other topics you would interested in just let me know. I was thinking of signing up for a free website account so that anyone who was interested could access it. I will have to get my hubby to help me with that as websites are not my forte. haha. Ill let you know when Im done.
  #283  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:22 PM
Earthbound Misfit I's Avatar
Earthbound Misfit I Earthbound Misfit I is offline
Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?
 
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Thank you! Sounds wonderful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
Great! I will try to work on something tomorrow. If there are any other topics you would interested in just let me know. I was thinking of signing up for a free website account so that anyone who was interested could access it. I will have to get my hubby to help me with that as websites are not my forte. haha. Ill let you know when Im done.
__________________
*******************************************
Princess Blue
Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
Princess Blue Forum to find out.

***************************************
Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

******************************************
  #284  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:40 PM
Spazkat9696 Spazkat9696 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodierenee View Post
Princess Blue's story is on the front page of the Houston Press.

I think this is GREAT because the Houston Press has a wide circulation here in Houston, especially among 20-30 year olds. Maybe someone will read it and it will jog their memory.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2007-09-13/news/cold-case/

EDIT: There's a mention in the article about one of the members of Websleuths!!!

Reading this really makes me wonder about the police chief, Tommie Tolson. It's almost like he is hiding the facts of the case. Make me wounder what he really knows about princess blue.
  #285  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:43 PM
Spazkat9696 Spazkat9696 is offline
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Where is the overlay? I can't find the post there are so many
  #286  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:47 PM
Earthbound Misfit I's Avatar
Earthbound Misfit I Earthbound Misfit I is offline
Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?
 
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Did you find the overlay over at someoneknowsme.com? If not, let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Where is the overlay? I can't find the post there are so many
__________________
*******************************************
Princess Blue
Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
Princess Blue Forum to find out.

***************************************
Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

******************************************
  #287  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:55 PM
Spazkat9696 Spazkat9696 is offline
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I found it it is striking but how does that work. Would it not match up as well if is was me she was being compared to. Just curious I don't know much about the technology behind it.
  #288  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:43 AM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
I have never posted in this thread but have been keeping a close eye on developments. I know that in the previous thread some of you expressed an interest in learning more about DNA and matters such as this. I would love to help anyone who is still interested. I was thinking of drawing up a "lecture" about basic DNA and then maybe some more advanced topics. Let me know if anyone is interested in this.
Welcome Chloekins. Yes, I for one would love to learn more about DNA and how it can help us understand this and other cases. Thank you very much for offering to give of your time and knowledge.

Lion
  #289  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:40 AM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
Welcome Chloekins. Yes, I for one would love to learn more about DNA and how it can help us understand this and other cases. Thank you very much for offering to give of your time and knowledge.

Lion
Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I have started to write up some notes concerning the following subjects: Basic DNA, DNA replication, Protein Coding, Toxicology Components and Testing Processes, DNA Extraction and Amplification and DNA Comparisons. I came up with this on just a simple brainstorming last night after RKnowley expressed an interest as well. If there is something else you think of that would help let me know. I figure this will take me about a week or so. My hubby has already started setting up a basic website for me to put all this on.
  #290  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:05 PM
sloane sloane is offline
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Hi all-
and a warm "welcome back" to LionRun! We sure missed you!
Welcome to Chloekins!! Count me in on wanting to know much more about DNA...THANK YOU for your time and attn. to this case and others.

As for Princess Blue being compared to Kimberly Cheatham, yes, it has been started, and no, it is not ready! Lol! So, in essence, no real changes. Thanks to everyone for their patience and for continuing to look for other potential matches...as RKnowley said, somewhere to go if this turns out NOT to be a match between KC and PB.

warmly,
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  #291  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:11 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I have started to write up some notes concerning the following subjects: Basic DNA, DNA replication, Protein Coding, Toxicology Components and Testing Processes, DNA Extraction and Amplification and DNA Comparisons. I came up with this on just a simple brainstorming last night after RKnowley expressed an interest as well. If there is something else you think of that would help let me know. I figure this will take me about a week or so. My hubby has already started setting up a basic website for me to put all this on.
Your plan sounds great, Chloekins! And, again thank you so much for this gift. For a long time I have been hoping that the, "Field of Dreams" thing might come to light. In other words, "If you build it they will come." If we do all we can to build interest in who Princess Blue was in life, maybe others would join our efforts. This has happened, and I am so grateful.

There is one thing that I would like to know more about, but it is more anthropology related. For how long(vague approximate if it is all we can discern), can bone marrow stay viable for DNA testing/drug testing on remains left out in the open in the warm(with relatively mild winters), humid climate in the Houston, Texas area?

Sloane did some good research on this, and several of us have researched this as well. Still we have no real answer. This may be because there is no body farm in such a climate to give us remotely reliable data. It might be helpful to hunt down similar cases and note the cases where there both was and was not viable DNA in bone marrow. Maybe related facts from similar cases can be used as a very general guideline as to when Princess Blue might have died.

Lion
  #292  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:22 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloane View Post
Hi all-
and a warm "welcome back" to LionRun! We sure missed you!
Welcome to Chloekins!! Count me in on wanting to know much more about DNA...THANK YOU for your time and attn. to this case and others.

As for Princess Blue being compared to Kimberly Cheatham, yes, it has been started, and no, it is not ready! Lol! So, in essence, no real changes. Thanks to everyone for their patience and for continuing to look for other potential matches...as RKnowley said, somewhere to go if this turns out NOT to be a match between KC and PB.

warmly,
Hello dear sloane. It is so good to be back, and it is so good to be back in contact with you. Thank you for the update on Kimberly's DNA work-up.

Lion
  #293  
Old 10-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionRun View Post

There is one thing that I would like to know more about, but it is more anthropology related. For how long(vague approximate if it is all we can discern), can bone marrow stay viable for DNA testing/drug testing on remains left out in the open in the warm(with relatively mild winters), humid climate in the Houston, Texas area?

Lion
I would say that it would still be viable years after death as long as the bones were not fractured in any way. Remember that bones are like encasements, while they have minute holes that allow for mineral/gas exchange they are for the most part sealed. I would expect there to be still viable bone marrow for many years following death. The amount that they need to do mtDNA is very little as it is amplified using certain techniques. Without going into too much detail sometimes there are "holes" in the sequence that are filled in with expected ratios therefore even partial samples can still be used.

As far as tox screens using bone there is still a lot of work needed to be done in this area. It has been demonstrated that it is possible to identify certain types of drugs in bone matter the specifics are still being researched. These specifics are things such as what is the duration of usage required to began deposition into the bone, what are the levels of reaction that are required to deem a positive result, how does environment and overall health effect measurements and these sorts of things.

You can get viable tox screens from bone marrow for years afterwards especially in the case of opiates. While the concentration lowers a great deal as time goes by trace elements would still be possible to detect. Since this was done on our Princess there must have been some evidence or suspicion that she was a habitual drug user.

I will add this particular aspect to my topics and go into greater detail since its hard to go into the level of detail that is required on a post
  #294  
Old 10-28-2007, 01:24 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
I would say that it would still be viable years after death as long as the bones were not fractured in any way. Remember that bones are like encasements, while they have minute holes that allow for mineral/gas exchange they are for the most part sealed. I would expect there to be still viable bone marrow for many years following death. The amount that they need to do mtDNA is very little as it is amplified using certain techniques. Without going into too much detail sometimes there are "holes" in the sequence that are filled in with expected ratios therefore even partial samples can still be used.

As far as tox screens using bone there is still a lot of work needed to be done in this area. It has been demonstrated that it is possible to identify certain types of drugs in bone matter the specifics are still being researched. These specifics are things such as what is the duration of usage required to began deposition into the bone, what are the levels of reaction that are required to deem a positive result, how does environment and overall health effect measurements and these sorts of things.

You can get viable tox screens from bone marrow for years afterwards especially in the case of opiates. While the concentration lowers a great deal as time goes by trace elements would still be possible to detect. Since this was done on our Princess there must have been some evidence or suspicion that she was a habitual drug user.

I will add this particular aspect to my topics and go into greater detail since its hard to go into the level of detail that is required on a post
Thank you Chloekins. As I recall it was stated in the tox results that she tested negative for opiates. That makes sense.

There may have been suspicion because of the sheer number of dead, known prostitutes found in the Houston area during that period. I don't know if there was any specific evidence indicating that she may have been a prostitute. But, of course that is possible. At this point we are open minded to whom she was and what her lifestyle was, because we don't have enough facts or evidence to indicate what her lifestyle may have been.

I understand about the integrity of the bones concerning the viability of testing. Thank you for clarifying further. I am looking forward to learning all I can, and again thank you very much.

Lion
  #295  
Old 10-28-2007, 02:28 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
Thank you Chloekins. As I recall it was stated in the tox results that she tested negative for opiates. That makes sense.

There may have been suspicion because of the sheer number of dead, known prostitutes found in the Houston area during that period. I don't know if there was any specific evidence indicating that she may have been a prostitute. But, of course that is possible. At this point we are open minded to whom she was and what her lifestyle was, because we don't have enough facts or evidence to indicate what her lifestyle may have been.

I understand about the integrity of the bones concerning the viability of testing. Thank you for clarifying further. I am looking forward to learning all I can, and again thank you very much.

Lion
Its my pleasure to answer any question you may have. I love it when people take an interest in science. I really enjoy sharing my knowledge with others as the more educated we become the more help we can give.
  #296  
Old 10-28-2007, 03:04 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
Its my pleasure to answer any question you may have. I love it when people take an interest in science. I really enjoy sharing my knowledge with others as the more educated we become the more help we can give.
I soooo understand, Chloekins. I was pre-vet and was accepted to vet school, but circumstances sparked me to turn in a different direction. But, I love all things medical science, and college genetics was fun to me(and many other courses!). I am so happy you are here to enlighten and educate us. I am such a learn monger .

Lion
  #297  
Old 10-28-2007, 03:55 PM
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teonspaleprincess teonspaleprincess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
Its my pleasure to answer any question you may have. I love it when people take an interest in science. I really enjoy sharing my knowledge with others as the more educated we become the more help we can give.
It is wonderful to have someone with so much knowledge about DNA here. I am sure that you will be a great asset here. Welcome again.
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  #298  
Old 10-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
I soooo understand, Chloekins. I was pre-vet and was accepted to vet school, but circumstances sparked me to turn in a different direction. But, I love all things medical science, and college genetics was fun to me(and many other courses!). I am so happy you are here to enlighten and educate us. I am such a learn monger .

Lion
Ohh thats lovely! I wanted to be a vet when I was a child but just couldnt bear the thought of hurt animals. I have always been interested in science even back in primary school. I got the histology bug whilst in college and then pathology just grabbed me by the backside during med school (haha!) and I am currently in my fellowship for cytopathology. The body, either in human or animal form is a mysterious and beautiful thing even when it isnt running properly.
  #299  
Old 10-28-2007, 04:33 PM
Chloekins Chloekins is offline
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Originally Posted by teonspaleprincess View Post
It is wonderful to have someone with so much knowledge about DNA here. I am sure that you will be a great asset here. Welcome again.
Thank you so much teonspalprincess. I can tell already Im with like minds
  #300  
Old 10-28-2007, 04:40 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Originally Posted by Chloekins View Post
Ohh thats lovely! I wanted to be a vet when I was a child but just couldnt bear the thought of hurt animals. I have always been interested in science even back in primary school. I got the histology bug whilst in college and then pathology just grabbed me by the backside during med school (haha!) and I am currently in my fellowship for cytopathology. The body, either in human or animal form is a mysterious and beautiful thing even when it isnt running properly.
Bravo, Chloekins! And, may you have the most rewarding of experiences during and after your fellowship. I share your interests, and I look forward to working with you in searching for Princess Blue's name in life.

Are you from England, Great Britain, or Australia? I see that you used the word, "whilst". Just curious .

Lion
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