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  #1  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:37 AM
AfterMidnight AfterMidnight is offline
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Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being

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A medical examiner found Delafield died from hypertensive heart disease and cited the Taser gun shock as a contributing factor, the report said. On her death certificate, the medical examiner ruled Delafield's death a homicide.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

Old women, pregnant women, and now a woman in a wheel-chair. I believe the mind set of policemen has changed over the years. When I was young, they did seem to be our friends and protectors. Now I wonder who's going to protect us from them.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:48 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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this is a local story for me. http://www.news4jax.com/news/14144292/detail.html
Officers said they arrived to find Delafield in a wheelchair, armed with two knives and a hammer. Police said the woman was swinging the weapons at family members and police.

Within an hour of her call to 911, Delafield, a wheelchair-bound woman documented to have mental illness, was dead.

Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.

According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.

A medical examiner found Delafield died from hypertensive heart disease and cited the Taser gun shock as a contributing factor. On her death certificate, the medical examiner ruled Delafield's death a homicide.

Last edited by Jeana (DP); 09-21-2007 at 10:29 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:50 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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GREEN COVE SPRINGS, FL -- Officers involved in tasing a 56-year-old wheelchair-bound woman have been cleared in the case, but the family of Emily Delafield says it is not done with its investigation.

Delafield died about 90 minutes after being tased by Green Cove Springs Police Department officers in April 2006.

Audio recordings of that fateful night have just been released.

Delafield called police asking for help because she said her sister was trying to harm her.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/n...?storyid=91565

Last edited by Jeana (DP); 09-21-2007 at 10:30 AM.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:51 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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JACKSONVILLE, FL -- Emily Delafield’s brother told investigators that his sister "finally had to be Tased to secure her well being..."

According to a report by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Delafield died just 90 minutes after she was Tased 10 times by two officers for more than two minutes.

"Is this a normal thing for police officers in the City of Green Cove Springs to Tase obese women in wheelchairs?” asked nephew Ryan Delafield who has hired an attorney and plans to sue the department.

Officers with Green Cove Springs Police told FDLE that they were forced to use their Tasers.

According to the report, Officers arrived at Delafield’s, 56, home in April 2006 after she called police. When they arrived Delafield was threatening herself and her family with a knife and a hammer.


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...?storyid=79047

Last edited by Jeana (DP); 09-21-2007 at 10:29 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2007, 02:01 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterMidnight View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

Old women, pregnant women, and now a woman in a wheel-chair. I believe the mind set of policemen has changed over the years. When I was young, they did seem to be our friends and protectors. Now I wonder who's going to protect us from them.
the first story left out important details. maybe the reporter felt they are not important, maybe they wanted to slant the story, or maybe they are just incompetent.

the woman suffered from several medical problem. she was schizophrenic and armed with knives and a hammer. she had not taken her medication and was threatening to kill herself. the family and police talked about the best way to disarm her. police feared if the tried to take the knife from her by force she would follow through with her threat to stab herself. if the police used pepper spay they feared it's affect on her due to her repertory problems. maybe they could have taken the knives before she killed herself and maybe the pepper spray would not have killed her but they had no way of knowing that and had to act in hopes of stopping her from killing herself. i do not always agree when police use a tazer but in this case they had to act quickly before the woman acted. a wheel chair would not have stopped her from stabbing herself. the officers tried to save her not kill her.
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2007, 02:07 AM
montana_16 montana_16 is offline
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This is utterly disgusting. Period.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:07 AM
montana_16 montana_16 is offline
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This is utterly disgusting. Period.
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2007, 03:13 AM
eleven eleven is offline
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Originally Posted by sherri79 View Post
the first story left out important details. maybe the reporter felt they are not important, maybe they wanted to slant the story, or maybe they are just incompetent.

the woman suffered from several medical problem. she was schizophrenic and armed with knives and a hammer. she had not taken her medication and was threatening to kill herself. the family and police talked about the best way to disarm her. police feared if the tried to take the knife from her by force she would follow through with her threat to stab herself. if the police used pepper spay they feared it's affect on her due to her repertory problems. maybe they could have taken the knives before she killed herself and maybe the pepper spray would not have killed her but they had no way of knowing that and had to act in hopes of stopping her from killing herself. i do not always agree when police use a tazer but in this case they had to act quickly before the woman acted. a wheel chair would not have stopped her from stabbing herself. the officers tried to save her not kill her.
I think it's crystal clear who the incompetent parties are in this story...the ones wearing the badges!
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2007, 07:35 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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Originally Posted by eleven View Post
I think it's crystal clear who the incompetent parties are in this story...the ones wearing the badges!
you have a advantage. you have medical reports. place yourself in the position the police faced that night. a schizophrenic woman is off her medication and her voices tell her to kill herself. you have minutes to act as she threatens herself and anyone who tries to get closer. what do you do?
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2007, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sherri79 View Post
the first story left out important details. maybe the reporter felt they are not important, maybe they wanted to slant the story, or maybe they are just incompetent.

the woman suffered from several medical problem. she was schizophrenic and armed with knives and a hammer. she had not taken her medication and was threatening to kill herself. the family and police talked about the best way to disarm her. police feared if the tried to take the knife from her by force she would follow through with her threat to stab herself. if the police used pepper spay they feared it's affect on her due to her repertory problems. maybe they could have taken the knives before she killed herself and maybe the pepper spray would not have killed her but they had no way of knowing that and had to act in hopes of stopping her from killing herself. i do not always agree when police use a tazer but in this case they had to act quickly before the woman acted. a wheel chair would not have stopped her from stabbing herself. the officers tried to save her not kill her.
It seems to me that if police can be trained to negotiate with hostage takers, perhaps they can be trained to use their mouths to calm down situations like this. Tasers are beginning to be the crutch every officer falls back on, instead of his wits, regardless of how appropriate or inappropriate it is.

The bottom line here is that the woman was mentally ill. If the officers at the scene were too stupid to defuse the situation verbally, could they maybe have called her doctor? Called a hostage negotiator? Tased her once instead of ten times? Maybe tased her for a period of time shorter than TWO MINUTES AND FORTY-FIVE SECONDS?

My personal opinion is that the officer who used her taser nine times, inflicting shock upon this mentally ill woman for two minutes and forty seconds should be brought up on charges. She should at least lose her job, because she shows very, very poor judgement. I'd hate to have to count on her to help me, wouldn't you?
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2007, 08:18 AM
gman20001969 gman20001969 is offline
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I started to by on the side of the law on this one. I mean, someone coming after you with a weapon? Normally they draw guns. But since this person was in a wheelchair, it's good that they were able to use tazers to immobilize her.

BUT! Tazing her 10 times??? Why didn't they just use a defribulator at that point??? This case should be used that tazers are not always the best deterrent to immobilize someone nor a proper alternative.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2007, 08:39 AM
AfterMidnight AfterMidnight is offline
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Quote:
I started to by on the side of the law on this one. I mean, someone coming after you with a weapon? Normally they draw guns. But since this person was in a wheelchair, it's good that they were able to use tazers to immobilize her.
You meant to kill her, didn't you? My God, what is our society coming to when people believe it's OK, good even, to taser a woman in a wheel chair?
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2007, 04:12 AM
Bobbisangel Bobbisangel is offline
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Originally Posted by AfterMidnight View Post
You meant to kill her, didn't you? My God, what is our society coming to when people believe it's OK, good even, to taser a woman in a wheel chair?

If this woman had been off her meds for days then I doubt that anyone could have talked her down. Remember that her mind isn't working right. She is hearing other people talking to her...voices coming from inside her head and outside her head. She doesn't know that the voices in her head aren't real. It doesn't sound like anyone could get near her without her swinging a knife and a hammer. I would imagine that she thought that everyone there was trying to kill her. From what I understood it took 10 taser times before she stopped swinging. Sounds like she was a pretty strong lady. Even a relative..her brother (?) said that the police did what they had to do to get her to stop. It is the nephew or cousin that is raising heck and saying that the police are at fault. I personally don't think that he will win a civil suit when the other relative was there too and says the taser was needed.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2007, 10:15 AM
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MagicRose99 MagicRose99 is offline
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Originally Posted by sherri79 View Post
you have a advantage. you have medical reports. place yourself in the position the police faced that night. a schizophrenic woman is off her medication and her voices tell her to kill herself. you have minutes to act as she threatens herself and anyone who tries to get closer. what do you do?
You and Bobbisangel are right. She was a danger to herself and others and the police did what they had to do. Expecting the officers to "verbally" diffuse the situation isn't feasible. The woman was not on meds, hearing voices and expects everyone around her of trying to harm/kill her... verbally just wouldn't cut it.I'm sorry for the woman and her family, but I cannot fault the police for trying to protect her, her family and themselves.
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2007, 10:22 AM
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kgeaux kgeaux is offline
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You and Bobbisangel are right. She was a danger to herself and others and the police did what they had to do. Expecting the officers to "verbally" diffuse the situation isn't feasible. The woman was not on meds, hearing voices and expects everyone around her of trying to harm/kill her... verbally just wouldn't cut it.I'm sorry for the woman and her family, but I cannot fault the police for trying to protect her, her family and themselves.

Well, how do they do it in hospitals? In residential treatment centers for the mentally ill? Believe me, every emergency room in the nation has had a schizophrenic or two off their meds come through, some even swinging a weapon or two. But I don't recall hearing of the patient being attacked and killed by the hospital staff, do you?

They "verbally" defuse the situation. Then they get the patient into a straightjacket. How, you may ask, are they able to do this? They are forced to use their brains, because they do not have a taser strapped to their thighs. They act in the best interest of the patient, letting time play out if necessary. They see the patient as a SICK PERSON NEEDING HELP not as a criminal who needs to be punished.

I would imagine that even the designer of the taser would say that two minutes and forty-five seconds of continual shock to the "criminal" is excessive and should be understood to cause death.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:23 AM
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I don't know what to think about this. I really think I would have thrown a blanket over her face so she couldn't see what was going and then disarmed her.
IMO Tasers aren't always the best tool to use.
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2007, 10:26 AM
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I don't know what to think about this. I really think I would have thrown a blanket over her face so she couldn't see what was going and then disarmed her.
IMO Tasers aren't always the best tool to use.

See there, Beyond, you've come to a reasonable and safe way to defuse the situation.

Cops use those damn tasers too much because the taser is right there, and it is faster to react physically than to mentally think things through.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:28 AM
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A taser is still better than a gun. I like Beyond's solution though. It sounds like some LE need a little class on what to do in situation like that.
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  #19  
Old 09-22-2007, 11:10 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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they did not shock her non stop for over 2 minutes. 1 pulse for 5 seconds and 9 for short burst lasting different amounts of time.
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A lab found one taser struck for 16 seconds, then 25 seconds, then 13 seconds. Those are just a few of the hits.
they did not sit there with their finger on the trigger to fry this lady. they asked the family about her medical conditions and the best way to disarm her before she sliced herself open. the family agreed to the use of the taser at the time but may not have known the risk the taser posed. they knew the risk the knife posed.

as for hospitals, i only know 1 schizophrenic and he has never walked into a ER while off his meds in a violent episode. by the time he gets to the ER police have already restrained him.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:12 AM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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Originally Posted by Beyond Belief View Post
I don't know what to think about this. I really think I would have thrown a blanket over her face so she couldn't see what was going and then disarmed her.
IMO Tasers aren't always the best tool to use.
that would have worked if they wanted to stop her from cutting others because she could not see her target. her target was herself. i dont think a blanket would have stopped her from stabbing herself.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:20 AM
AfterMidnight AfterMidnight is offline
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Well, they kept her from harming herself all right - they did it for her. WAY TO GO!!!
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sherri79 View Post
they did not shock her non stop for over 2 minutes. 1 pulse for 5 seconds and 9 for short burst lasting different amounts of time. they did not sit there with their finger on the trigger to fry this lady. they asked the family about her medical conditions and the best way to disarm her before she sliced herself open. the family agreed to the use of the taser at the time but may not have known the risk the taser posed. they knew the risk the knife posed.

as for hospitals, i only know 1 schizophrenic and he has never walked into a ER while off his meds in a violent episode. by the time he gets to the ER police have already restrained him.
Not to mention that hospitals are trained to deal with people like this on a continuous basis... while police officers are not medical personnel. The officers did the best they could in a difficult situation while trying to protect themselves and those around them.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:28 AM
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that would have worked if they wanted to stop her from cutting others because she could not see her target. her target was herself. i dont think a blanket would have stopped her from stabbing herself.
Sherri, it seems to me that if a blanket were thrown over my head and quickly drawn close, no way would I be able to stab myself, not to any significant degree, anyway........there are MANY ways this situation could have been handled, short of shocking her repeatedly, for two minutes and forty-five seconds.

Hell, letting the woman stab herself would have been better for her health than shocking her....can you imagine how a schizophrenic is going to react to an attack like that? I've got personal experience in this area, and I can tell you that an attack like that is going to INCREASE the person's aggitation, because they are paranoid to begin with and the attack just proves to them that they are RIGHT to perceive the attacker as an enemy. Two minutes and forty-five seconds! That is a LONG time to hurt, Sherri. If someone was repeatedly hurting you, and you are in no mental condition to properly assess the situation, don't you think you'd percieve the cops to be your enemy?

I get from your posts that you truly do not believe the force used was excessive. That just amazes me! You truly believe the police woman who discharged her taser for two minutes and forty seconds was using good and proper judgement? Her partner felt the need to deploy his taser once for five seconds, and she deploys hers NINE times, virtually back-to-back shocks? Lasting up to half a minute long? In my opinion, not only was excessive force used, (the family okaying it doesn't make it right in my eyes) but the judgement shown by the female police officer is dangerously short of what is needed in a police officer.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MagicRose99 View Post
Not to mention that hospitals are trained to deal with people like this on a continuous basis... while police officers are not medical personnel. The officers did the best they could in a difficult situation while trying to protect themselves and those around them.
Exactly. So are emt's.

I guess the tasers were closer than their cell phones, since they didn't even attempt to get trained personell on the scene.
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  #25  
Old 09-23-2007, 01:28 PM
sherri79 sherri79 is offline
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Originally Posted by kgeaux View Post
Sherri, it seems to me that if a blanket were thrown over my head and quickly drawn close, no way would I be able to stab myself, not to any significant degree, anyway........there are MANY ways this situation could have been handled, short of shocking her repeatedly, for two minutes and forty-five seconds.

Hell, letting the woman stab herself would have been better for her health than shocking her....can you imagine how a schizophrenic is going to react to an attack like that? I've got personal experience in this area, and I can tell you that an attack like that is going to INCREASE the person's aggitation, because they are paranoid to begin with and the attack just proves to them that they are RIGHT to perceive the attacker as an enemy. Two minutes and forty-five seconds! That is a LONG time to hurt, Sherri. If someone was repeatedly hurting you, and you are in no mental condition to properly assess the situation, don't you think you'd percieve the cops to be your enemy?

I get from your posts that you truly do not believe the force used was excessive. That just amazes me! You truly believe the police woman who discharged her taser for two minutes and forty seconds was using good and proper judgement? Her partner felt the need to deploy his taser once for five seconds, and she deploys hers NINE times, virtually back-to-back shocks? Lasting up to half a minute long? In my opinion, not only was excessive force used, (the family okaying it doesn't make it right in my eyes) but the judgement shown by the female police officer is dangerously short of what is needed in a police officer.
there are a hundred things they could have tried. we have no idea how they would have turned out. call for a medical team and she kills herself while you wait. run up to throw a blanket over her and she stabs her self when you approach or stabs a officer through the blanket in the struggle to disarm her. pepper spay her and she has respiratory failure. attack her physically and she stabs her self or a officer.

how exactly are the police to know that the taser was going to kill her? these officers showed by their actions that they wanted to disarm the woman but not harm her. they could see she was not in the best health but they are not doctors. they did not rush in and attack. they talked to the family and asked about her health. if they wanted the woman dead they could have shot her. she had a knife and said she would kill people and refused to drop it.

i do not think excessive force was used. the officers used what they hoped was non lethal force on someone with a deadly weapon. the female officer used her taser repeatedly because it did not affect the woman enough to get her to drop the knife. the officers are not God. they could not use any special powers to see in side the woman's body to know how it was reacting to the shocks. they could only judge by the affect they saw on her actions. it was 1 and a half hours later that the lady died. the tasers are a factor in her death but her health was as well. people seem to think the male officer is not wrong but the female officer was. he only used his taser for 5 seconds but he used his taser last.
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