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Madeleine McCann Missing from the Algarve region of Portugal since May 3, 2007. Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, have said that they left the children unsupervised in a ground floor bedroom while they ate at a restaurant about 120 metres (130 yards) away.


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  #1  
Old 09-24-2007, 12:38 PM
hcc2007 hcc2007 is offline
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Why do the McCanns care about us?

Here's something I don't quite get, and it's been puzzling me a lot.

Why, oh why, do the McCann's care so much what the public and all the small web-bloggers like us think?

I'd especially like to hear from the pro-McCann folks on this web forum. I have heard it said that it's because the McCann's are "narcissistic". OK, but that's just a label and I'd like to hear the positive side of it.

I believe that if MY child were missing, I'd be out looking for my child and hiring investigators and scouring every piece of information I could get my hands on. And aside from asking the public to help, I wouldn't give a fig about what scandal rags or internet bloggers & sleuths had to say.

They had four months to ask the public to help, and I should think the public did all it could during that time. There were numerous "sightings".

Do they think we'd all be looking for Madeleine now if we didn't spend so much time blogging? Heck, most of us would much rather be looking for Maddy, if we thought there was a ghost of a chance. I'm sure they could line up 1,000s of volunteers at the "Fund's" expense, to fly anywhere to look for her (Portugal, Spain, outer Mongolia) ... as one BRILLIANT poster recently suggested.

Or ... do they think the PJ are getting ideas from us? I'd be surprised if so, as the information flow seems to be in the other direction.

It was predictable that attention would turn to them eventually if Maddy were not found. And it's also predictable that the public will scrutinize and criticize everything you do, once you put your mug on their TV screens. If you feel sorry for the McCann's, just look at various entertainment and sports figures. They're carved, sliced, diced and served up daily by the media for public consumption. And they're not suspects in a crime.

Why would the McCanns have expected any different? And why do they care so much? I should think that, like the entertainment and sports figures, they just wouldn't read this stuff.

Caring so much about what is thought of them tends to reflect somewhat badly on them. As though "they doth protest too much."

Thanks for any thoughts. This case is really bugging me. :P
  #2  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:08 PM
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I'm not sure the McCanns do care what an American crime forum thinks of them. I guess that they care what the British public think because it would be so very helpful to have lots of public backing if they get into any more serious legal troubles and to be able to live comfortably among their neighbors. Also, in general, I think they (at least Gerry) like to get attention and admiration. There could also be a money angle.

Are there any pro-McCann posters on here? I mean people who think the McCanns are good parents or think they couldn't possibly be guilty of hurting Madeleine or who enjoy reading Gerry's blog? I've missed those posts.

There are posters, myself included, who haven't made up their minds about whether the McCann's are guilty. Not the same as being pro-McCann.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:57 PM
Dr. Creepin Dr. Creepin is offline
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Hmmm... Maybe that's why the FIRST person Gerry called, allegedly, after a molester took his daughter, was Alistair Clarke, a specialist in media crisis management.

http://www.alistairclarke.co.uk/
  #4  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:01 PM
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We are the test jury. The defense has to put up "trial balloons", like DNA sweat from sandals, twins peeing in the boot, McC's hauling ther own garbage around town, to see how they go over. We are prototypical jury members...the ordinary folks who read about the case and analyze it.

It also helps in jury selection.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by STEADFAST View Post
I'm not sure the McCanns do care what an American crime forum thinks of them. I guess that they care what the British public think because it would be so very helpful to have lots of public backing if they get into any more serious legal troubles and to be able to live comfortably among their neighbors. Also, in general, I think they (at least Gerry) like to get attention and admiration. There could also be a money angle.

Are there any pro-McCann posters on here? I mean people who think the McCanns are good parents or think they couldn't possibly be guilty of hurting Madeleine or who enjoy reading Gerry's blog? I've missed those posts.

There are posters, myself included, who haven't made up their minds about whether the McCann's are guilty. Not the same as being pro-McCann.
I am British and I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are involved. I know some, possible many Brits do - I just haven't encountered any.

I have believed from the outset that she was abducted from her bed and I have not wavered from that opinion. None of the tabloid reported "evidence" made any sense and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be false.

OTOH, opinions vary about them leaving the children. Like many other Brits, my husband and I have used a baby listening service on holiday. If you Google "baby listening", you'll get literally thousands of hits on European hotels. It's a fairly standard service.

I hope with all my heart that she is found alive.
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
I am British and I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are involved. I know some, possible many Brits do - I just haven't encountered any.

I have believed from the outset that she was abducted from her bed and I have not wavered from that opinion. None of the tabloid reported "evidence" made any sense and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be false.

OTOH, opinions vary about them leaving the children. Like many other Brits, my husband and I have used a baby listening service on holiday. If you Google "baby listening", you'll get literally thousands of hits on European hotels. It's a fairly standard service.

I hope with all my heart that she is found alive.
I hope so, too. Here in the U.S., nobody would know what you were referring to if you offered a "baby listening service." And if I went to my neighbors and said, "I'm going across the street for dinner and drinks, but I'm leaving the toddler home asleep. Could you listen at the door every once in a while?" they'd call the police.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by STEADFAST View Post
I hope so, too. Here in the U.S., nobody would know what you were referring to if you offered a "baby listening service." And if I went to my neighbors and said, "I'm going across the street for dinner and drinks, but I'm leaving the toddler home asleep. Could you listen at the door every once in a while?" they'd call the police.
Yes we are all paranoid and jumpy here in the states.
The Brits take a much more practical approach than a lot of us yanks.
All this finger pointing and trying to find "an angle" is, IMHO, a sad statement on our mind set.
  #8  
Old 09-24-2007, 05:19 PM
Rino Rino is offline
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Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
I have believed from the outset that she was abducted from her bed and I have not wavered from that opinion. None of the tabloid reported "evidence" made any sense and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be false.
.
But it is not tabloid traash that Gerry last week claimed he beleived they were being watched during their stay. But in the first televised interview, when asked just that, flatly denied any such "feelings".

It is not tabloid trash that they are now the only suspects in the case.

I agree completely with Pinkhammer, we are a test audiance and a sympathy ploy.
  #9  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:00 PM
narlacat narlacat is offline
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Originally Posted by hcc2007 View Post
Here's something I don't quite get, and it's been puzzling me a lot.

Why, oh why, do the McCann's care so much what the public and all the small web-bloggers like us think?

I'd especially like to hear from the pro-McCann folks on this web forum. I have heard it said that it's because the McCann's are "narcissistic". OK, but that's just a label and I'd like to hear the positive side of it.

I believe that if MY child were missing, I'd be out looking for my child and hiring investigators and scouring every piece of information I could get my hands on. And aside from asking the public to help, I wouldn't give a fig about what scandal rags or internet bloggers & sleuths had to say.

They had four months to ask the public to help, and I should think the public did all it could during that time. There were numerous "sightings".

Do they think we'd all be looking for Madeleine now if we didn't spend so much time blogging? Heck, most of us would much rather be looking for Maddy, if we thought there was a ghost of a chance. I'm sure they could line up 1,000s of volunteers at the "Fund's" expense, to fly anywhere to look for her (Portugal, Spain, outer Mongolia) ... as one BRILLIANT poster recently suggested.

Or ... do they think the PJ are getting ideas from us? I'd be surprised if so, as the information flow seems to be in the other direction.

It was predictable that attention would turn to them eventually if Maddy were not found. And it's also predictable that the public will scrutinize and criticize everything you do, once you put your mug on their TV screens. If you feel sorry for the McCann's, just look at various entertainment and sports figures. They're carved, sliced, diced and served up daily by the media for public consumption. And they're not suspects in a crime.

Why would the McCanns have expected any different? And why do they care so much? I should think that, like the entertainment and sports figures, they just wouldn't read this stuff.

Caring so much about what is thought of them tends to reflect somewhat badly on them. As though "they doth protest too much."

Thanks for any thoughts. This case is really bugging me. :P
They care how they come across in the media- and why wouldn't they in this day and age- they are enduring a witch hunt, very much like what Lindy Chamberlain endured- trial by media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkhammer View Post
We are the test jury. The defense has to put up "trial balloons", like DNA sweat from sandals, twins peeing in the boot, McC's hauling ther own garbage around town, to see how they go over. We are prototypical jury members...the ordinary folks who read about the case and analyze it.

It also helps in jury selection.
If the defense are using us as a test jury, it must be in response to the PJ trying the same thing with 'leaks'. More often than not, the defense 'answers' to what the prosecution lays out.

I thought the 'boot' response was that there were soiled diapers in there, not that the twins peed in there.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by STEADFAST View Post
I hope so, too. Here in the U.S., nobody would know what you were referring to if you offered a "baby listening service." And if I went to my neighbors and said, "I'm going across the street for dinner and drinks, but I'm leaving the toddler home asleep. Could you listen at the door every once in a while?" they'd call the police.

LOL - so true! I'm still not willing to make the leap from poor parenting decision to child murderer....there's just no real evidence now that I've sorted through all the bunk. I think she was abducted.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:16 PM
philamena philamena is offline
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Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
I am British and I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are involved. I know some, possible many Brits do - I just haven't encountered any.

I have believed from the outset that she was abducted from her bed and I have not wavered from that opinion. None of the tabloid reported "evidence" made any sense and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be false.

OTOH, opinions vary about them leaving the children. Like many other Brits, my husband and I have used a baby listening service on holiday. If you Google "baby listening", you'll get literally thousands of hits on European hotels. It's a fairly standard service.

I hope with all my heart that she is found alive.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:23 PM
philamena philamena is offline
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Originally Posted by narlacat View Post
They care how they come across in the media- and why wouldn't they in this day and age- they are enduring a witch hunt, very much like what Lindy Chamberlain endured- trial by media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain
Good point naralcat. Excellent comparison. I believe AfterMidnight made the same comparison earlier today on another thread. Thanks so much for the link.
  #14  
Old 09-24-2007, 08:38 PM
colomom colomom is offline
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Originally Posted by STEADFAST View Post
I hope so, too. Here in the U.S., nobody would know what you were referring to if you offered a "baby listening service." And if I went to my neighbors and said, "I'm going across the street for dinner and drinks, but I'm leaving the toddler home asleep. Could you listen at the door every once in a while?" they'd call the police.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
I am British and I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are involved. I know some, possible many Brits do - I just haven't encountered any.

I have believed from the outset that she was abducted from her bed and I have not wavered from that opinion. None of the tabloid reported "evidence" made any sense and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be false.

OTOH, opinions vary about them leaving the children. Like many other Brits, my husband and I have used a baby listening service on holiday. If you Google "baby listening", you'll get literally thousands of hits on European hotels. It's a fairly standard service.

I hope with all my heart that she is found alive.
I think this just might be one of the 'cultural differences' that has been discussed so much. Thanks for the input Jayelles, I had a feeling this was more popular than folks let on.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:22 PM
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I would dearly love to see Kate McCann advocating that this practice be stopped. If Maddie was abducted, then every other child left alone this way is at risk as well. How can we assume that it was just an isolated case for the McCanns? That seems irresponsible.

Even if this was common practice before, Kate should be saying that now it needs to stop.

On the Dr. Phil show today, a terribly distraught and grieving mother was telling about the accident that befell her son. She had heard noises in the middle of the night, her husband was not at home. She got their handgun out of its secure location and put it under her pillow. The next morning, her son found it and in front of her, shot himself accidentally. It was truly heartbreaking to watch her talk. Dr. Phil asked her what she would say to other parents, and she said immediately without hesitating, "Find another alternative besides having a handgun in the home to keep your family safe. I don't want one other family going through what we have gone through."

That is the thing I find odd, if we accept that the McCanns thought this was safe, (and as doctors, I think they would have understood it was not) then why aren't they campaigning to stop this practice now?
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Texana View Post
I would dearly love to see Kate McCann advocating that this practice be stopped. If Maddie was abducted, then every other child left alone this way is at risk as well. How can we assume that it was just an isolated case for the McCanns? That seems irresponsible.

Even if this was common practice before, Kate should be saying that now it needs to stop.

On the Dr. Phil show today, a terribly distraught and grieving mother was telling about the accident that befell her son. She had heard noises in the middle of the night, her husband was not at home. She got their handgun out of its secure location and put it under her pillow. The next morning, her son found it and in front of her, shot himself accidentally. It was truly heartbreaking to watch her talk. Dr. Phil asked her what she would say to other parents, and she said immediately without hesitating, "Find another alternative besides having a handgun in the home to keep your family safe. I don't want one other family going through what we have gone through."

That is the thing I find odd, if we accept that the McCanns thought this was safe, (and as doctors, I think they would have understood it was not) then why aren't they campaigning to stop this practice now?
Hello Texana,

It seems to me though that no matter what the McCann's say they get jumped on. If they hire PI's to search it's a publicity stunt, if they don't hire PI's they're not doing enough. I think the McCann's would be in the same quandary if they spoke out about the perceived rights & wrongs of the baby listening service.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texana View Post
I would dearly love to see Kate McCann advocating that this practice be stopped. If Maddie was abducted, then every other child left alone this way is at risk as well. How can we assume that it was just an isolated case for the McCanns? That seems irresponsible.

Even if this was common practice before, Kate should be saying that now it needs to stop.

On the Dr. Phil show today, a terribly distraught and grieving mother was telling about the accident that befell her son. She had heard noises in the middle of the night, her husband was not at home. She got their handgun out of its secure location and put it under her pillow. The next morning, her son found it and in front of her, shot himself accidentally. It was truly heartbreaking to watch her talk. Dr. Phil asked her what she would say to other parents, and she said immediately without hesitating, "Find another alternative besides having a handgun in the home to keep your family safe. I don't want one other family going through what we have gone through."

That is the thing I find odd, if we accept that the McCanns thought this was safe, (and as doctors, I think they would have understood it was not) then why aren't they campaigning to stop this practice now?


Salem
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:27 PM
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Hello Texana,

It seems to me though that no matter what the McCann's say they get jumped on. If they hire PI's to search it's a publicity stunt, if they don't hire PI's they're not doing enough. I think the McCann's would be in the same quandary if they spoke out about the perceived rights & wrongs of the baby listening service.
No, I don't agree with you that no matter what they say they get jumped on. That seems to be just a response to any thing that the McCanns do that is regarded negatively or critically, "Damned if they do! Damned if they don't! Poor McCanns!"

They received massive outpourings of sympathy and donations from thousands of people. That's certainly not a "no matter what they do" response, that's a positive response no matter what they do.

I've certainly never commented on whether or not their hiring a PI is a publicity stunt. Frankly, if it were my child that truly was missing, I'd hire someone no matter what the country laws said. I can only hope that I'm as lucky as the McCanns in hiring a top firm as well.

So I'm not giving a pass to Kate on this one. Instead of responding as she did, that she feels supported that "hundreds" of mothers have written to tell her that they've done "exactly the same thing" she did, she needs to respond back, "And we all need to stop doing that. I didn't know better, but now I do. And we all need to stop this practice before another child is taken in the night."

To not say so seems to assume that somehow Madeleine's abductor is some kind of a one-in-billion bad luck scenario, that simply can't happen to another child ever.

Why not?

Why would anyone want to risk thinking that?

If Kate really wants to make a difference for all the other missing children--as she said more than once in her interviews--then she should at least say something about the baby listening idea as no longer being dafe.

She's the one who brings up "all the other children." If she is ready to talk about keeping them safe, then she needs to start talking about how the idea of just listening at intervals is not good enough.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:56 PM
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No, I don't agree with you that no matter what they say they get jumped on. That seems to be just a response to any thing that the McCanns do that is regarded negatively or critically, "Damned if they do! Damned if they don't! Poor McCanns!"

They received massive outpourings of sympathy and donations from thousands of people. That's certainly not a "no matter what they do" response, that's a positive response no matter what they do.

I've certainly never commented on whether or not their hiring a PI is a publicity stunt. Frankly, if it were my child that truly was missing, I'd hire someone no matter what the country laws said. I can only hope that I'm as lucky as the McCanns in hiring a top firm as well.

So I'm not giving a pass to Kate on this one. Instead of responding as she did, that she feels supported that "hundreds" of mothers have written to tell her that they've done "exactly the same thing" she did, she needs to respond back, "And we all need to stop doing that. I didn't know better, but now I do. And we all need to stop this practice before another child is taken in the night."

To not say so seems to assume that somehow Madeleine's abductor is some kind of a one-in-billion bad luck scenario, that simply can't happen to another child ever.

Why not?

Why would anyone want to risk thinking that?

If Kate really wants to make a difference for all the other missing children--as she said more than once in her interviews--then she should at least say something about the baby listening idea as no longer being dafe.

She's the one who brings up "all the other children." If she is ready to talk about keeping them safe, then she needs to start talking about how the idea of just listening at intervals is not good enough.
I understand your point Texana but to be honest I don't think the McCann's can or should be engaged in another campaign yet, that could involve them in more legal wrangling. Their focus should be on finding Madeleine.

By the way my comment about the PI's was not aimed at you or anybody else here either.
  #21  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:34 PM
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I understand your point Texana but to be honest I don't think the McCann's can or should be engaged in another campaign yet, that could involve them in more legal wrangling. Their focus should be on finding Madeleine.

By the way my comment about the PI's was not aimed at you or anybody else here either.
Blaize, I hear you. I don't think the McCanns should be taking on a global kind of campaign either, with Madeleine's fate still unknown. However, they did that themselves from the very beginning:

"Kate hints her future may lie in helping other families cope with abductions. "There are so many missing children out there, abducted children and sexually-exploited children," she said.

"Once you know all that you can't turn a blind eye to it. Madeleine is our priority but we have to help. We can't just ignore those other children.

"Whatever comes out of our experience, anything that can make the tiniest bit of difference to make the world safer place is going to be a good thing. I feel a moral obligation.

"Madeleine means so much to me, but you can't take it away from the bigger picture."

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?...&id=1223682007

If they are going to be talking about other children, then at the very least, they need to be saying that the whole "baby listening" idea is not safe. That would make the tiniest bit of difference, as Kate says, wouldn't it?

The whole "can't take it away from the bigger picture" emphasis is just so odd to me. I fully agree that everyone grieves uniquely. But to be talking so soon about "the bigger picture" is atypical in the extreme.

I have a good friend who lost a two year old suddenly to an undiagnosed medical condition twenty years ago. He was literally healthy one minute and then dropped into unconsciousness.

She spent four years in the Compassionate Friends support group (a national organization for parents who have lost their children) and only then did she spend another six years in the group helping others. (She says she felt she needed to help others as she was helped.)

The McCanns set themselves up early on as global activists for missing children, but they haven't really said the one thing that might stop other children from being abducted. Both things just don't make sense to me.
  #22  
Old 09-25-2007, 02:03 AM
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I'd think that if a couple had plenty of money and an abducted child, they would want to lay low and start hiring outside experts to infiltrate areas so that the girl could eventually be rescued or find someone who knows of the pedophile abduction rings. Getting a little girl back or finding her should be the one and only top priority or interest for a long time.
  #23  
Old 09-25-2007, 08:03 AM
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I did not know the Mc Canns care about us. I personally think they care about themselves (who wouldn't in a situation like that?) IF they are guilty, then they need to keep pretending and clear up their names somehow because these people have careers, etc. IF they are innocent, heck...it is not a nice position to be AT ALL.

So I think is a natural thing to want to defend yourself IF you feel you are being wrongly accused.

Having said that, some of their statements (in my view) are idiotic as to defend the fact they left their tots alone. After the amount of criticism they got from around the world, you would at least think they would accept it was stupid.

So I really do not think they care about us at all but themselves.
  #24  
Old 09-25-2007, 07:01 PM
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I would have said that they care what people think, but Sleuthmom, thinking over what you said, I'm not so sure I wouldn't change my mind to agree with you...
  #25  
Old 09-25-2007, 11:48 PM
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I'd think that if a couple had plenty of money and an abducted child, they would want to lay low and start hiring outside experts to infiltrate areas so that the girl could eventually be rescued or find someone who knows of the pedophile abduction rings. Getting a little girl back or finding her should be the one and only top priority or interest for a long time.
Agree 100%.
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