British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects - Page 27

gitana1 · #**651** 12-05-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigi103

I realize we only saw a tiny portion of AK's statement before the jury went to deliberate, but I found the piece we did see incredibly odd. The whole bit about "people wonder how I cope," and her concern about being forced to wear the mask of a murderer. I understand that's she's fighting for her life so her thoughts are on her own survival, but... The intense "me" focus was really off-putting in that context.

I can't understand why she hasn't been advised better. The way she dressed throughout the trial, the constant smiling for the cameras... This stuff doesn't make her guilty, but I think it really hurt her. It is reminiscent of Casey Anthony in that I watch her behavior and think, how can you ACT better? Sarah Johnson (I may have the name wrong) who killed her parents in Idaho a couple years back is another example. The funeral plans were cramping her style, etc. It's striking how different the behavior of these women is from, say, Susan Smith who didn't give an Oscar caliber performance but at least went through the motions of emulating appropriate behavior.

I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.

songline · #**652** 12-05-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iluvmua

so does Amanda only get to stay in jail for 2 years? or am I missing something?

They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
she has already been there, 2 years.

nursebeeme · #**653** 12-05-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitana1

I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.

amen! too bad you couldn't have coached her (if that was remotely possible given her personality).

She was one hot mess during the entire trial in my honest opinon. (and I sooo felt this way that I typed it out long hand instead of IMHO. She was a hot mess the entire way thru.. and I bet her personality issues have the MOST to do with it. A lawyer cannot control facial expressions to date. The clothing and hair.. also pure Amanda Knox.)

panthera · #**654** 12-05-2009, 08:28 PM

Just one question if anyone knows, or can point me in the right direction ~ how long will she be in prison? The full 26 years or do they have parole like here in the US?

Isabella · #**655** 12-05-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by songline

Originally Posted by Isabella
I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.

IMHO you are both correct because all types of people exist and their views will differ, Yes many will say the black guy, and other will say the evidence is not there....but knowing the code of law in that region is key. I do not know it but, seems that accessory to murder is punishable same as murder in the first degree. So they all got a very similar verdict.

I have not followed the case throughout the 2 years, but only in the very beginning and end. so I am not knowing how they came about a verdict. but it seems to me that many feel it was not a well done job and as a result justice was not served.
But if all 3 were participating on some level regardless as to who did the deed? they are all punished. I am just saying, and I am sure many are outraged especially her family.

RIP Meridith

In all honesty having followed the case closely ive no doubt the correct verdict was reached. I dont know why her family would be outraged. I mean who raised her to be a liar and not to face up to her own actions? Who shouts the mouth off at the Italians? Yes her family and they are getting sued also apparently.

Yes if all three are involved..they would get the same punishment probably and lets not forget...the theory is that Amanda let them in the house so without her help it could not have happened. Its also believed she helped to clean up and her prints were found on a weapon.

Personally the only people i think have the right to be enraged are the Kerchers and Patrick Lumbaba.

Isabella · #**656** 12-05-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by songline

They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
she has already been there, 2 years.

There saying here the appeal will probably be the end of next year.

Isabella · #**657** 12-05-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthera

Just one question if anyone knows, or can point me in the right direction ~ how long will she be in prison? The full 26 years or do they have parole like here in the US?

Not sure but for such a brutal crime...i would be surprised if she served less than 20 years ( depending on appeals of course).

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412696_knox30.html

Woe.be.gone · #**658** 12-05-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella

Its also been reported that she threatened a guy with a knife in Italy.

I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.

bbm
Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
not the color of his skin.

If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.

Isabella · #**659** 12-05-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone

bbm
Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
not the color of his skin.

If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.

You are talking about the correct guy yes. And i have no doubt he was there although he claims she consented to have sex. The point i was trying to make is...that some seem all to eager to solely blame Guede for doing this and not to accept that AK and WS was involved even though a neigbour said he heard several feet running away from the apartment. What no one could ever explain to me was tho that if Guede did the crime solo...who did the other feet belong to that was heard running away?

Woe.be.gone · #**660** 12-05-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella

The Italians expect justice to served. I thought living in America you would expect the same.

And no it was Meredith who was screwed for having the misfortune to share a home with her

One thing I don't understand is why some Americans think AK was falsely convicted when the court also convicted the Italian boyfriend - correct?

The conclusion was that they both were involved and both were convicted. Would the Italians put one of their own away in order to falsely punish a young American? That doesn't make sense to me. Now if they had put her away but not him, that would be more cause for alarm, no?

songline · #**661** 12-05-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella

You are talking about the correct guy yes. And i have no doubt he was there although he claims she consented to have sex. The point i was trying to make is...that some seem all to eager to solely blame Guede for doing this and not to accept that AK and WS was involved even though a neigbour said he heard several feet running away from the apartment. What no one could ever explain to me was tho that if Guede did the crime solo...who did the other feet belong to that was heard running away?

You have watched the case

can you tell me how is it she was having sex with one guy and two others are also in the room OR did they have sex earlier in the day and and they were just hanging out when AK & WS came to visit

can you please help me out here , thanks.....

thesaint · #**662** 12-05-2009, 10:00 PM

Most likely after exhausting her appeals--there are 2 levels of appeals, provided a new trial isn't ordered, correct?

she'll be done with appeals in what, 4 years?

By then she'll have served 6 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution/court agree to reduce her sentence in exchange for a full mea culpa. That is, Foxy Knoxy fully and truthfully (ha, see if she can do that) confess and acknowledge her role in Meredith's murder and her sentence gets reduced. Of course, they'd likely consult Meredith's family on the matter first and provided they had no objections, they'd cut a deal with Amanda to spill all and then maybe cut her sentence in half and kick her free after a decade or so.

The other side of that is they'll likely work on the boyfriend with the same sort of deal--they might even make his sweeter and sooner, if he's willing to confess and explain what happened that night.

Which if the bf beats Amanda to the punch, she won't get any mercy at all. Although that would depend what story the bf told and how verifiable it was--maybe he has a smoking gun piece of physical evidence stashed away somewhere. Or maybe when he tells his story it rings so true and matches the known evidence and facts so well...who knows.

Isabella · #**663** 12-05-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone

One thing I don't understand is why some Americans think AK was falsely convicted when the court also convicted the Italian boyfriend - correct?

The conclusion was that they both were involved and both were convicted. Would the Italians put one of their own away in order to falsely punish a young American? That doesn't make sense to me. Now if they had put her away but not him, that would be more cause for alarm, no?

I totally agree with that and thats what makes me mad about the Senator saying she wants to talk to Hilary Clinton because she thinks the verdict was based on Anti Americans when in fact Amands co accused was a wealthy young Italian and one of there own. I mean the locals cheering the verdict outside the court were Italians and possibly knew the ex boyfriend so i just dont understand how anyone can logically think this verdict was just to get at the Americans

Blue_Dolphin308 · #**664** 12-05-2009, 10:03 PM

48 hours is covering this right now, as well as the verdict.

Isabella · #**665** 12-05-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by songline

You have watched the case

can you tell me how is it she was having sex with one guy and two others are also in the room OR did they have sex earlier in the day and and they were just hanging out when AK & WS came to visit

can you please help me out here , thanks.....

Well Guede claims that he had consensual sex with Meredith and then went to the bathroom..and whilst in there the other pair killed Meredith and that he was afraid to go and help her. (Yea i know lol) but the one thing i would say maybe..yes his sperm was inside her..but..that could have happened earlier in the day in theory and yet he never did deny he was in the apartment at the time of the murder. He asked for a fast track trial as he thought he was going to get framed by Amanda which after Lumbaba i can understand.

The prosecution claim that it was Amanda who let Guede in the apartment. She denies that she knew Guede before it happened but..the day before Meredith was killed a main claims that he was threatened with a knife by Amanda and that Guede and the bf were with her. He testified to that in court also.

Isabella · #**666** 12-05-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesaint

Most likely after exhausting her appeals--there are 2 levels of appeals, provided a new trial isn't ordered, correct?

she'll be done with appeals in what, 4 years?

By then she'll have served 6 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution/court agree to reduce her sentence in exchange for a full mea culpa. That is, Foxy Knoxy fully and truthfully (ha, see if she can do that) confess and acknowledge her role in Meredith's murder and her sentence gets reduced. Of course, they'd likely consult Meredith's family on the matter first and provided they had no objections, they'd cut a deal with Amanda to spill all and then maybe cut her sentence in half and kick her free after a decade or so.

The other side of that is they'll likely work on the boyfriend with the same sort of deal--they might even make his sweeter and sooner, if he's willing to confess and explain what happened that night.

Which if the bf beats Amanda to the punch, she won't get any mercy at all. Although that would depend what story the bf told and how verifiable it was--maybe he has a smoking gun piece of physical evidence stashed away somewhere. Or maybe when he tells his story it rings so true and matches the known evidence and facts so well...who knows.

The boyfriend didnt seem so nutty to me as she did tho ive seen photos of him before the murder with huge knives. In pictures of him immediately after being convicted..he didnt even seem bothered it was weird.

The other alternative maybe..is...if Guede loses his appeals which i think he will..maybe HE will try and strike a deal if he thinks the other pair will try and make him take all the blame for it.

IF Amanda does confess i THINK though not absolutely certain that she could probably serve her sentence in a American prison.

luckyducky · #**667** 12-05-2009, 10:49 PM

I really feel for Amanda's family and do believe that she was involved in the murder. I just finished watching the msn video of her dad and sister and can't believe that they think there was a travisty of justice. They are having a really hard time accepting that she did this and are blaming the judge and jury. The evidence is kind of overwhelming to me anyway, and was obviously enough for the jury. RIP Merideth

mysteriew · #**668** 12-05-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomofBoys

I see so much focus in the pro-Amanda articles about the DNA on the knife and how Meredith's DNA was destroyed as a result of the testing, but to me that's the least convincing part of the case.

Her confession and her lies and the blame-casting and her behavior after the fact just isn't consistent with an innocent person. And while most of that is completely circumstansial, I can't reconcile all of it with her innocence. It's like "Yes, this is weak and this is weak and that's not a smoking gun and this could have been coerced" but there's enough in concert to make brushing all of it away seem almost denial-esque.

It's certainly a tough one, but after reading other boards I come away thinking that so many of Amanda's biggest supporters are basing their support not in the fact that they don't believe unequivocally in her innocence, but because they can't trust in Italy's objectivity. Which is fair, I guess, but it's making it this 'us v. them' thing that has nothing to do with the crime. I think this crime, committed in America and tried in America, would be widely seen as less confounding. I have to admit that any language barrier I see is my own. It's harder to follow when the proceedings are in another language and you don't trust the press. The U.S. press is really giving her such a soft ride.

Thanks for saying this because it is how I feel, but you said it better.

I confess, I haven't followed this case online, and have only seen two shows on it. But I am getting a strong impression that though it was a weak case, she was probably guilty. It seems like it wasn't so much a single piece of evidence that proved guilt, as it was a multitude of evidence that pointed to it. Suspects have been convicted in the US in the same situations.

Isabella · #**669** 12-05-2009, 11:01 PM

An article in one of our Sunday papers which i think is quite good

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news...der-trial.html

Woe.be.gone · #**670** 12-05-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella

Well Guede claims that he had consensual sex with Meredith and then went to the bathroom..and whilst in there the other pair killed Meredith and that he was afraid to go and help her. (Yea i know lol) but the one thing i would say maybe..yes his sperm was inside her..but..that could have happened earlier in the day in theory and yet he never did deny he was in the apartment at the time of the murder. He asked for a fast track trial as he thought he was going to get framed by Amanda which after Lumbaba i can understand.

The prosecution claim that it was Amanda who let Guede in the apartment. She denies that she knew Guede before it happened but..the day before Meredith was killed a main claims that he was threatened with a knife by Amanda and that Guede and the bf were with her. He testified to that in court also.

I heard something new about Guede on the show (48 Hours) I just watched and that was that his DNA was found inside her body and "his fingerprints were found inside her purse". I didn't know about the fingerprints in the purse from reading today but may have missed that info.

Something that is bothering me is that Senator Maria Cantwell(sp) is shown saying that she is going to work on establishing that "any American when tried abroad has access to a fair trial by an impartial jury ...". Yes, I would like this for all people but was always taught that when you travel in another country, you are to famillarize yourself with their laws and customs and always be on your best behavior. This entails dressing in a way that is polite and does not draw attention to yourself as an ugly American (ie sloppy). I would never think to try to impose any superiority upon an authority in another country.

I don't think it's a good idea to let an underage person live in a foreign country unsupervised - too risky imo.

ajurk · #**671** 12-05-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitana1

I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.

you know, at first, i was wondering why she didn't dress nicer, but now i'm thinking that if she did, she would have been given hell for that too, for trying to be someone she isn't.
as someone who has been following this case from the beginning, i think that GIVEN THE EVIDENCE, she should have been found not guilty. there was not enough physical evidence against her. and after watching the sloppy evidence collecting, i'm surprised anything even got into court. they left a piece of her bra on the floor for six weeks and then passed it around!
and as far as the other stuff that doesn't make sense, there are so many reasons that the window was broken. maybe RG had tried to break into the house earlier that day. he could have been following her for days, no one knows. and as for AK's behavior, she is nutty. she is one of those un-unique unique people hwho feel the need to be different to get attention, and she got attention alright...

and did anyone see the show on ID about the judge and how corrupt he is? in fact he is under investigation for corruption...

mysteriew · #**672** 12-05-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone

I heard something new about Guede on the show (48 Hours) I just watched and that was that his DNA was found inside her body and "his fingerprints were found inside her purse". I didn't know about the fingerprints in the purse from reading today but may have missed that info.

Something that is bothering me is that Senator Maria Cantwell(sp) is shown saying that she is going to work on establishing that "any American when tried abroad has access to a fair trial by an impartial jury ...". Yes, I would like this for all people but was always taught that when you travel in another country, you are to famillarize yourself with their laws and customs and always be on your best behavior. This entails dressing in a way that is polite and does not draw attention to yourself as an ugly American (ie sloppy). I would never think to try to impose any superiority upon an authority in another country.

I don't think it's a good idea to let an underage person live in a foreign country unsupervised - too risky imo.

Anyone who visits our country is expected to abide by our laws. And it is up to them to find out what those laws are. If they do something illegal, they are subjected to our legal system.

Woe.be.gone · #**673** 12-06-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysteriew

Anyone who visits our country is expected to abide by our laws. And it is up to them to find out what those laws are. If they do something illegal, they are subjected to our legal system.

I know that. Why are you pointing that out to me? I express within my post that people are to obey the laws of the country they are visiting. Is my post unclear?

LadyL · #**674** 12-06-2009, 01:01 AM

I've seen quite a few people reference her inappropriate court attire. I'm curious because I haven't seen anything I would consider inappropriate. I must've missed a few pics. Can anyone link to pics of her dressed this way?

mysteriew · #**675** 12-06-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone

I know that. Why are you pointing that out to me? I express within my post that people are to obey the laws of the country they are visiting. Is my post unclear?

Sorry Woe.Be.Gone I probably should have been more specific. I was commenting more on/to Senator Maria Cantwell than I was to you. I just don't think we should be holding citizens from other countries to higher standards than we hold our own citizens.