11 years ago this night...

[DeeDee249]

By this time on Boxing Day (Dec. 26th) eleven years ago, poor JBR was lying on a cold slab in a morgue- having made the trip ALONE after her parents left her dead under the Christmas Tree where just the day before she had opened her presents in her pink pajamas. There were probably still gifts under the tree, scattered wrapping paper and bows. The Rs left an unspeakable "gift" - for themselves. The only "witness" to the horrible events of that night was now forever silent, and no justice in sight yet- no prosecutor with the guts or brains to bring this case to trial.
She does have people like us to keep the flame lit- maybe one day it'll shine enough light to tell the world what really happened.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

By this time on Boxing Day (Dec. 26th) eleven years ago, poor JBR was lying on a cold slab in a morgue- having made the trip ALONE after her parents left her dead under the Christmas Tree where just the day before she had opened her presents in her pink pajamas. There were probably still gifts under the tree, scattered wrapping paper and bows. The Rs left an unspeakable "gift" - for themselves. The only "witness" to the horrible events of that night was now forever silent, and no justice in sight yet- no prosecutor with the guts or brains to bring this case to trial.
She does have people like us to keep the flame lit- maybe one day it'll shine enough light to tell the world what really happened.

Great post! And we can only hope.

[coloradokares]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

By this time on Boxing Day (Dec. 26th) eleven years ago, poor JBR was lying on a cold slab in a morgue- having made the trip ALONE after her parents left her dead under the Christmas Tree where just the day before she had opened her presents in her pink pajamas. There were probably still gifts under the tree, scattered wrapping paper and bows. The Rs left an unspeakable "gift" - for themselves. The only "witness" to the horrible events of that night was now forever silent, and no justice in sight yet- no prosecutor with the guts or brains to bring this case to trial.
She does have people like us to keep the flame lit- maybe one day it'll shine enough light to tell the world what really happened.

You are so right. It is so way past time that we use that lit flame to ignite the passion within us to seek Justice for that precious little girl. This little light of mine Im going to let it shine. This little light of mine Im going to let it shine, let it shine, let it shine. Shine all over BOULDER, Im Going to let it shine. Shine all over Boulder Im going to let it shine. SHINE out to Atlanta Im going to let it shine, Shine on out to Charlevoix Im Going to let it shine, Let it Shine Let it Shine. Rest in Peace JonBenet. One day the world will know. CK

[Nuisanceposter]

Awwww...I never really considered before that the remnants of Christmas morning, like paper and bows, would still be strewn about on the 26th, left to sit and wait for police and movers to come sift through them.

And JonBenet left to wait for the coroner. If I have to vacate the house, so be it, but watch me sit in my car and wait til they take her body away, instead of being driven off to go elsewhere - without stopping to pick up Burke along the way. Why would you not go and get Burke immediately, before you went anywhere else?

Maybe when both John and Patsy are gone it will stop being all about John and Patsy and finally start being about what happened to JonBenet and who did this to her and why. I kinda doubt Burke's gonna be too much different from his parents, but I'd love to be wrong about that some day.

Meanwhile, it's the people like us, the ones who won't let it go and keep asking questions, that keep the light lit for JonBenet. At this point, Christmas Day itself is forever linked to JonBenet Ramsey in my mind.

This case will most likely take the same path as Jack the Ripper, and end up being as infamous for being an unsolved case as it is for occurring in the first place.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter

Awwww...I never really considered before that the remnants of Christmas morning, like paper and bows, would still be strewn about on the 26th, left to sit and wait for police and movers to come sift through them.

And JonBenet left to wait for the coroner. If I have to vacate the house, so be it, but watch me sit in my car and wait til they take her body away, instead of being driven off to go elsewhere - without stopping to pick up Burke along the way. Why would you not go and get Burke immediately, before you went anywhere else?

Maybe when both John and Patsy are gone it will stop being all about John and Patsy and finally start being about what happened to JonBenet and who did this to her and why. I kinda doubt Burke's gonna be too much different from his parents, but I'd love to be wrong about that some day.

Meanwhile, it's the people like us, the ones who won't let it go and keep asking questions, that keep the light lit for JonBenet. At this point, Christmas Day itself is forever linked to JonBenet Ramsey in my mind.

This case will most likely take the same path as Jack the Ripper, and end up being as infamous for being an unsolved case as it is for occurring in the first place.

They left the house somewhere around 2:00, one hour after finding her. That in itself is interesting. Does anyone who posts here who has a child think they could leave her in one hour of finding her to lie on the floor ALONE?

I doubt it.

[Rino]

Nuisanceposter, they chose to leave the house they did not have to.

I could not have left my child, their actions were un-natural

[daffodil]

T o be fair I thought they had to leave once it was declared a crime scene.

[Rino]

It was a crime scene at the point it was reported she was kidnapped. They left to avoid being part of the investigation, to put space between them and LE

[coloradokares]

Originally Posted by daffodil

T o be fair I thought they had to leave once it was declared a crime scene.

Actually no.

[SuperDave]

Maybe when both John and Patsy are gone it will stop being all about John and Patsy and finally start being about what happened to JonBenet and who did this to her and why.

NP, I fear that may be the ONLY time.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by daffodil

T o be fair I thought they had to leave once it was declared a crime scene.

Possibly Daffodil.

But has anyone heard of Patsy putting up a struggle such as most of us would.

[DeeDee249]

I am sure there was at least one officer present in the house while waiting for the coroner. He didn't get there till 8pm. The R's could have asked to stay with the body in the presence of LE till she was taken to the morgue. There was so much else done that day that wasn't proper procedure, would one more thing have mattered at that point?

[Ames]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

I am sure there was at least one officer present in the house while waiting for the coroner. He didn't get there till 8pm. The R's could have asked to stay with the body in the presence of LE till she was taken to the morgue. There was so much else done that day that wasn't proper procedure, would one more thing have mattered at that point?

Even if they had forced them to leave the house...there was nothing keeping them from hanging around in the road...in the front of the house or anywhere outside of the CRIMESCENE TAPE. They would have had to have used a stun gun..to subdue me, and then throw me into the car and drove away. And then after I shook off the zap, I would have punched somebody's lights out....that is the ONLY way they would have gotten me away from my home, with my dead daughter's body inside....I mean, OF COURSE...if I was INNOCENT. If I was guilty of inflicting death upon my child...I would have made a beeline to the nearest car, and told them to "step on it"....and got the heck outta there.

[coloradokares]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

I am sure there was at least one officer present in the house while waiting for the coroner. He didn't get there till 8pm. The R's could have asked to stay with the body in the presence of LE till she was taken to the morgue. There was so much else done that day that wasn't proper procedure, would one more thing have mattered at that point?

It would have been improper procedure to have left that body unattended. I am thinking though that the Ramseys at lhad to have been close to passing out from stress and exhaustion. That was way too many hours without sleep here is my disclaimer....JMHO

[coloradokares]

Originally Posted by Ames

Even if they had forced them to leave the house...there was nothing keeping them from hanging around in the road...in the front of the house or anywhere outside of the CRIMESCENE TAPE. They would have had to have used a stun gun..to subdue me, and then throw me into the car and drove away. And then after I shook off the zap, I would have punched somebody's lights out....that is the ONLY way they would have gotten me away from my home, with my dead daughter's body inside....I mean, OF COURSE...if I was INNOCENT. If I was guilty of inflicting death upon my child...I would have made a beeline to the nearest car, and told them to "step on it"....and got the heck outta there.

...Brilliant you are simly brilliant

[Ames]

Originally Posted by coloradokares

...Brilliant you are simly brilliant

Thanks!!

[eve]

Originally Posted by Ames

Even if they had forced them to leave the house...there was nothing keeping them from hanging around in the road...in the front of the house or anywhere outside of the CRIMESCENE TAPE. They would have had to have used a stun gun..to subdue me, and then throw me into the car and drove away. And then after I shook off the zap, I would have punched somebody's lights out....that is the ONLY way they would have gotten me away from my home, with my dead daughter's body inside....I mean, OF COURSE...if I was INNOCENT. If I was guilty of inflicting death upon my child...I would have made a beeline to the nearest car, and told them to "step on it"....and got the heck outta there.

When my brother discovered our brother dead last Saturday, they sealed the house for some 5 hours for CSI and he never left the driveway. Need I say more.

Eve

[Squishified]

I found an interesting link: http://books.google.com/books?id=D5h...8D14QtA2eTdVVE

From the link: Women who molest children under the age of 6, usually their own children. This is one of the largest groups of female offenders.
These are women whose identities are so amalgamated with their children's that they cannot function as mothers.
Rather than nurture children, as healthy mothers do, they use children to meet their own emotional and sexual needs.
Tragically, these women often have sadistic tendencies and take twisted pleasure in hurting children.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by eve

When my brother discovered our brother dead last Saturday, they sealed the house for some 5 hours for CSI and he never left the driveway. Need I say more.

Eve

No...nuff said.

Eve, do you mind if I ask you what happened to your brother?? I understand if you do mind. I am sorry to hear about your loss!!!!!!!

And if the Rams were innocent...they would have been perched in THEIR driveway TOO!!! Innocent people just don't hop in their car and drive away, leaving their daughter's body there alone (when I say alone, I mean without THEM!)

[Squishified]

eve, (((Hugs))) to you

[eve]

Thanks Ames and Squishi-

Of course I do not mind, the story is in the Jury Room under "I need your prayers."

After so recently experiencing a sudden, tragic death, I know for sure - the way the Rams reacted is so abnormal. No one can say "Everyone is different when they grieve, either," not in that sense. No one would flee and leave their daughter like that, unless they had killed her. My brother sat in the driveway for over 4 hours til CSI, and the ME were out of the house. I know, because he spent much of that time on his cell phone with me. The poor guy had to find our brother and then wait for all that, because he would not leave until they did, not until my brother was taken to the morgue.

Eve

[coloradokares]

I never left our Mom when she passed away. I was there as she passed I was there, as they wheeled her out of her hospital room down the hall, down the elevator, into the "unseen" area of the hospital out into the daylight back of the hospital as she was loaded into the van that would take her to the Coronors office. They would not let me go with her any further. I was waiting when she arrived the following morning at the funeral home. How they could leave JonBenet like some broken doll discarded I cannot even fathom. Eve I truly am sorry for your loss. You have my deepest sympathies.

[SeekingJana]

Originally Posted by Solace

Possibly Daffodil.

But has anyone heard of Patsy putting up a struggle such as most of us would.

Not to speak ill of the dead, for that is not my nature, but Patsy certainly put up many fights in her life agaisnt or for the things which were important to her: competitive pageants, her initial fight to find an ovarian cancer drug trial program, her many flights back and forth for treatment alone, her long remission, and her length of survival after the finding of metastatic disease approx. 2 years before she died. She also fought against LE and the media with venom and vitrol.

Patsy COULD fight, but I don't think she ever fought for JonBenet on the night she died, but exactly the opposite.

[SeekingJana]

Originally Posted by Squishified

I found an interesting link: http://books.google.com/books?id=D5h...8D14QtA2eTdVVE

From the link: Women who molest children under the age of 6, usually their own children. This is one of the largest groups of female offenders.
These are women whose identities are so amalgamated with their children's that they cannot function as mothers.
Rather than nurture children, as healthy mothers do, they use children to meet their own emotional and sexual needs.
Tragically, these women often have sadistic tendencies and take twisted pleasure in hurting children.

Someone had hurt JonBenet before the night of her death. I have always struggled with who the abuser was, and my list has been a short one which didn't include Patsy. Your description causes me to rethink the possibility. IF Patsy was abused or somehow degraded sexually as a child as I have wondered about due to some statements from Nedra and also from her sister's demeanor, then I think she didn't learn the boundaries or what was proper. If these things are true, which we probably will never know now for certain, there is a very high probability that Patsy would see her children as sexual objects instead of her babies who needed her protection.

I keep thinking about one very strange incident as told by the Ramseys in DOI. When Patsy was in labor with JonBenet, the two adult Ramseys went off and left pre-schooler Burke alone in the house at night. Sure, they thought a family member was coming, and he was not harmed, but they had no foreknowledge that the family member wouldn't have a car accident or other event which kept them from reaching Burke in a hurry that night.
How many of us, faced with the same situation in 1990, would have simply picked the little boy up and taken him to the hospital? It was summer, he was in no jeopardy at Northside Hospital and actually might have enjoyed being a part of seeing his little sister soon after her birth. The atmosphere in hospitals at that time and since has been very sibling friendly.

I think their editor missed a clear sign of child neglect as it relates to Burke at an early age. Only Burke can know if he was sexually abused in any way at any time. I pray not.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by SeekingJana

Not to speak ill of the dead, for that is not my nature, but Patsy certainly put up many fights in her life agaisnt or for the things which were important to her: competitive pageants, her initial fight to find an ovarian cancer drug trial program, her many flights back and forth for treatment alone, her long remission, and her length of survival after the finding of metastatic disease approx. 2 years before she died. She also fought against LE and the media with venom and vitrol.

Patsy COULD fight, but I don't think she ever fought for JonBenet on the night she died, but exactly the opposite.

Good point, SeekingJana.
Indeed, Patsy had fighting spirit in abundance, and it is exactly the fact that she did NOT use it when it came to her daughter's tragic and violent death which should raise a thousand red flags.
Like another poster said it so well, if JonBenet had in fact been killed by an intruder, Patsy would have had police chief Koby in a choke hold shortly after the body was found, demanding action. She would have been Beth Twitty and Elizabeth Smart's father X20. A fighter type like Patsy would have been one of the fiercest parents ever to demand that LE do everything in their power to find the killer. Patsy would have raised hell in the BPD if she felt the investigation was goig too slow. But Patsy did nothing of the sort.
Had there really been "a killer out there", no way would Patsy have sat there five days after her daughter's murder, telling the TV audience that she was not angry at the killer and wanted to go on with her life.