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FLDS Raids and Related Items Discussion about the raids on the polygamist sect's Texas compound and the issues arising from and surrounding their beliefs and practices


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  #651  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:38 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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Actually, given the thousands of reported abuse cases there were very few priests prosecuted. What was more common was the church settling the claims with money and the priests reassigned to abuse somewhere else. Abuse isn't a tenet of FLDS either. Polygamy is.
This case isn't about polygamy. We're discussing that factor because it is a part of the overal sect.

This case is about a pattern of wide spread ABUSE. It's clear that the FRAUD will be a part of this case. I haven't heard yet of one man or woman arrested in this case because they are practicing polygamists. IF it is proved that individual men or women ABUSED any of the children under 18 or committed FRAUD then that will be the basis of the charges against them, not because they were married "spiritually" to other partners. If they are bigamists, being married to more than one person in order to commit fraud then those will be charges brought.
  #652  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:39 PM
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Actually, given the thousands of reported abuse cases there were very few priests prosecuted. What was more common was the church settling the claims with money and the priests reassigned to abuse somewhere else. Abuse isn't a tenet of FLDS either. Polygamy is.
Which is exactly what has happenned when authorities have tried your recommended approach of slow negotiations with the men of the FLDS. Prosecution in a court of law and imprisonment for the guilty is the way to go for anyone who would sexually assault a child.
  #653  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:39 PM
golfmom golfmom is offline
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Hi Ladybass, The children under the age of 13 or to be more specific, the non menstruating girls were not being raped or molested daily.
Maybe not daily, Glow, but many escapees have confirmed that their daddy's and others "helped" prepare them for their marriages.
  #654  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:41 PM
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Do you have a link for the Arizona "plan" ?
As a matter of fact I did and have already posted it. You're welcome to search it out. Basically it was a description of the most recent efforts in AZ, their plan and how they were implementing it.
  #655  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:46 PM
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So based on that should we begin emptying the catholic schools and orphanges around the country? The world maybe?
If the adults in charge of these children are using them for their own sexual gratification and egos...absolutely we should!!

By the way, we aren't discussing consensual sex between teenagers here. We are discussing men in power taking advantage of women and children in the worst way...abuse under the pretense of religion for sexual gratification.
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  #656  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:52 PM
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If the adults in charge of these children are using them for their own sexual gratification and egos...absolutely we should!!
well but see, we wont. To much power and too much money. People wouldnt stand for it.
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  #657  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:52 PM
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So, shouldn't the daddies and mommies be in jail right now? They have been charged.
  #658  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:56 PM
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So, shouldn't the daddies and mommies be in jail right now? They have been charged.

They have NOT been charged yet.
  #659  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:58 PM
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There being sued in court, but that is not CRIMINAL charges.
  #660  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:02 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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So, shouldn't the daddies and mommies be in jail right now? They have been charged.
There was a list of names of persons who have been subpeona'd. Have specific charges been leveled against each of them as yet?
  #661  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:02 PM
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well but see, we wont. To much power and too much money. People wouldnt stand for it.
This thread is about the FLDS, not the catholic church. although the FLDS do have people in place because they are powerful and wealthy. not as wealthy as the catholic church. but this is all relative.
  #662  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:03 PM
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There was a list of names of persons who have been subpeona'd. Have specific charges been leveled against each of them as yet?
No the supenas (sp) are only to determine who is the righful parent. Not criminal charges.
  #663  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:04 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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There being sued in court, but that is not CRIMINAL charges.
If they're able to prove underage marriage I presume there will be charges of statutory rape. There are issues regarding incest as well although I don't know whether there are charges that can be leveled regarding that.
  #664  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:05 PM
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Monkey wrench:

Utah allows 15 year olds to marry. If a 15 year old was married in Utah, then moved to Texas, the marriage would be legal in Texas - assuming, of course, there was a valid Utah license.
  #665  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:06 PM
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Monkey wrench:

Utah allows 15 year olds to marry. If a 15 year old was married in Utah, then moved to Texas, the marriage would be legal in Texas - assuming, of course, there was a valid Utah license.


I have to stop and ask myself of why You to would be supporting pedophilia?!
  #666  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:06 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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This thread is about the FLDS, not the catholic church. although the FLDS do have people in place because they are powerful and wealthy. not as wealthy as the catholic church. but this is all relative.
Floh, in reference to both FLDS/Catholic abuse I found this:

"There has been widespread misinterpretation of the First Amendment's free exercise clause by academics and authorities, who mistakenly read the Constitution as a mandate of "religious autonomy." The Supreme Court has never condoned "autonomy" or freedom from the law.

"There's a pivotal difference between FLDS and Catholic child-molester priests (and clergy of other faiths as well): namely that what FLDS does is part of their avowed beliefs and policy, whereas in the other religions it's against the rules."

"The hierarchy of the Catholic Church has argued vigorously that it has a constitutional right to avoid lawsuits by victims, because of an asserted belief in the sanctity of conversation between a bishop and a priest. Courts have rejected the theory, but they continue to argue for constitutional rights in cases involving the cover up of child abuse."
  #667  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:09 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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BTW for those of you who watch "Big Love" I read an article by the creator of the show. He had driven through Colorado City and experienced first hand the suspicion etc by the sect. He was followed and questioned and "encouraged" to leave town. He admitted that he had loosely based Big Love on the FLDS.
  #668  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:11 PM
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So, shouldn't the daddies and mommies be in jail right now? They have been charged.
Sorry, Trino, I tried to respond to your question when you posted it earlier. In post 553, I explained that this is a civil suit, not criminal charges. The parents now have the opportunity to respond, or they can continue to refuse to identify their children. The Court is trying to determine emergency, temporary, and permanent guardianship arrangements for the children.

ETA: And here, again, is Leila's link to the actual subpeona http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html
  #669  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:15 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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Sorry, Trino, I tried to respond to your question when you posted it earlier. In post 553, I explained that this is a civil suit, not criminal charges. The parents now have the opportunity to respond, or they can continue to refuse to identify their children. The Court is trying to determine emergency, temporary, and permanent guardianship arrangements for the children.
The question is will some of them "abandon" their children and not identify them so that they can escape possible charges?
  #670  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:29 PM
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"Leaving the small children in the home," those that were not underaged pregnant girls would have been a mistake IMO. This sect has been practicing a policy of hiding children and spiriting them out of country to Mexico, Canada or to other states. So if the CPS needed to contact those children and they weren't there all of a sudden then just what recourse would they have to be able to check on their welfare? Especially if the children had no ages or names documented? CPS did what they should have done. Now the process will proceed and we will see what happens.

LE could have put up a road block and let the adults have free passage as it pertains to everyday life. Its not like these people run in and out a lot they are isolationists right? Then the children wouldnt be in an institutional building, they would be sleeping in their own beds, eating foods they are used to and have their lives back. All at a fraction of what it is costing to keep them where they currently are. Less money spent, less trauma.... more mental and emotional well being.
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  #671  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:33 PM
mollymalone mollymalone is offline
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LE could have put up a road block and let the adults have free passage as it pertains to everyday life. Its not like these people run in and out a lot they are isolationists right? Then the children wouldnt be in an institutional building, they would be sleeping in their own beds, eating foods they are used to and have their lives back. All at a fraction of what it is costing to keep them where they currently are. Less money spent, less trauma.... more mental and emotional well being.
And controlled by those same persons who perhaps committed abuse on their siblings? As well as to "tamper" with witnesses ie...the children or the underaged mothers. Right....

Edited to add: Let's say LE kept the children in their own beds and prevented the adults from being there. That's violating their rights correct? To throw them out of their homes? You and others would be protesting at that. LE is supposed to leave at risk children in the care of the same persons they're investigating for abuse?
  #672  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:34 PM
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I have to stop and ask myself of why You to would be supporting pedophilia?!
I think Trino pointing out a possible catch in the law should not be equated to supporting pedophilia. I don't support pedophelia in no way shape or form. But I have to admit I am quite interested in how the authorities will handle that one. Very interesting, IMO.

ETA: However, I doubt there are very many legal marriages on file in Utah.
  #673  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:36 PM
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LE could have put up a road block and let the adults have free passage as it pertains to everyday life. Its not like these people run in and out a lot they are isolationists right? Then the children wouldnt be in an institutional building, they would be sleeping in their own beds, eating foods they are used to and have their lives back. All at a fraction of what it is costing to keep them where they currently are. Less money spent, less trauma.... more mental and emotional well being.

The children would again be in danger of being forcibly raped in the Temple beds. They did not have 'their own lives' at the compound. They were the property of whichever adult male owned them. I sincerely hope that most of these kids will be able to recover from the mental, emotional and physical traumas which they have been subjected to their entire lives.
  #674  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:38 PM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Why are you supporting pedophilia?!?! Thats all this is, except they are hiding behind there religion!
Bumping this up. Please keep the TOS in mind when making comments. We've already had the mods on this thread once warning us about personal attacks.

ETA: the above quote was in reference to a post made by Glow. Sorry, the quote didn't work how I wanted.
  #675  
Old 04-13-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Glow View Post
LE could have put up a road block and let the adults have free passage as it pertains to everyday life. Its not like these people run in and out a lot they are isolationists right? Then the children wouldnt be in an institutional building, they would be sleeping in their own beds, eating foods they are used to and have their lives back. All at a fraction of what it is costing to keep them where they currently are. Less money spent, less trauma.... more mental and emotional well being.
I see. Let's assume there was a family living next door to you, and one day their 14 yr. old daughter tells you that she is being raped by her father. Her mother knows about it, tells the father to stop, but this mother doesn't want to break up her family, so nothing is done. So you, the neighbor, do nothing because that child is better off at home than in a foster home? GET REAL!
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