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  #376  
Old 05-17-2008, 03:09 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Harlett, do you know if Christine knows if Nicholas had a Costco membership card and if it may have been with him on 2/13? Thank you.
  #377  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:13 PM
SoManyQuestions SoManyQuestions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poo View Post
You are correct, it is wrong to assume anything. Maybe LE should check with Costco and or Christine to determine if they had a Costco membership card. If they did not, this would be rather telling with regard to the credibility of the whole sugar/Costco errand story, don't you think.
This is coming to the point where the only thing we can believe is Nicholas' car was found in Federal Way.

If Christine can't be believe then he may not even be missing but may have told her he was leaving with a friend for a road trip and don't ever expect him back. He might have even said he was leaving and moving in with a new girl friend and wanted to keep the car but the police took it.

At some point we have to believe that some facts are true because if we don't then THE ONLY fact is the car was found with NO evidence in Federal Way.

We also can't just discard the ones that don't fit with what we want to be the truth. Although I'm not sure anyone has a clue as to what they want as the truth.

ETA Oh and he also decided not to work any more but that could just be so he wouldn't have to pay child support.
  #378  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:31 PM
Otter Otter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
Harlett, do you know if Christine knows if Nicholas had a Costco membership card and if it may have been with him on 2/13? Thank you.
Hi LR, I'm sure not HOH, but I remember this from the AMW site:

"Cops later discovered that Nicholas did not use his Costco card that night."

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372

You can get into Costco but you can't leave without showing your membership card and receipt if you've bought anything. It doesn't definitively mean that he was never at either Costco, just that he didn't buy anything. I guess.
  #379  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:34 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Hi LR, I'm sure not HOH, but I remember this from the AMW site:

"Cops later discovered that Nicholas did not use his Costco card that night."

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372

You can get into Costco but you can't leave without showing your membership card and receipt if you've bought anything. It doesn't definitively mean that he was never at either Costco, just that he didn't buy anything. I guess.
Thank you Otter! You rock!
  #380  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:34 PM
sassi214 sassi214 is offline
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Oh and he also decided not to work any more but that could just be so he wouldn't have to pay child support.
Jumping in from lurking here.


Wouldn't Nicholas be forced to work in order to pay for the children he helped create?
It doesn't seem like he'd (or any other biological parent) be able to choose not to work simply to evade child support.

Last edited by CW; 05-17-2008 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Warning please go back to page 8 regarding my post about not posting about other forum. Next time will result in timeout.
  #381  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Floh Floh is offline
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Can someone please explain how to make a poll on this site?

because i want to make one:

Nicholas francisco, dead or alive? and other suggestions for poll options welcome.

no. i don't think it an unwelcome poll idea. we've been going on for months.

i want to know where we all stand, those of us interested in the case.
  #382  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:37 PM
sassi214 sassi214 is offline
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Quote:
You can get into Costco but you can't leave without showing your membership card and receipt if you've bought anything. It doesn't definitively mean that he was never at either Costco, just that he didn't buy anything.
Our Costco here (Virginia) works differently I guess?

We need to show our card in order to get into the store.
Then when we pay at the registers.
We only need to show the receipt upon our exit.
  #383  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:39 PM
Floh Floh is offline
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I'm ready and waiting. just need pointers on how to do it and what to say . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floh View Post
Can someone please explain how to make a poll on this site?

because i want to make one:

Nicholas francisco, dead or alive. and other suggestions for poll options welcome.

no. i don't think it an unwelcome poll idea. we've been going on for months.

i want to know where we all stand, those of us interested in the case.
  #384  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:42 PM
Floh Floh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassi214 View Post
Our Costco here (Virginia) works differently I guess?

We need to show our card in order to get into the store.
Then when we pay at the registers.
We only need to show the receipt upon our exit.
Hi sassi214. welcome to Websleuths!
  #385  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:46 PM
Otter Otter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassi214 View Post
Jumping in from lurking here.
Wouldn't Nicholas be forced to work in order to pay for the children he helped create?
It doesn't seem like he'd (or any other biological parent) be able to choose not to work simply to evade child support.
I'm not sure if "force" is the right word, maybe "compelled" to work. Its a felony to avoid court ordered child support and Washington State does its best to make sure its paid or suffer the consequences, including jail for contempt. I'm sure most if not all states do this. Click throught the links on the left, its interesting.

http://www.dshs.wa.gov/dcs/Employers/employers.asp

In a nutshell, all companies doing business in the state are required under penalty to report all new hires to DCS so they can be run through the database for child support and the state will collect any through the employer. I wonder if the state can cross-reference with other states? DMV's can, a friend of mine learned that the hard way.

Last edited by CW; 05-17-2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Due to quote being edited.
  #386  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:48 PM
SoManyQuestions SoManyQuestions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassi214 View Post
Jumping in from lurking here.


Wouldn't Nicholas be forced to work in order to pay for the children he helped create?
It doesn't seem like he'd (or any other biological parent) be able to choose not to work simply to evade child support.
No one could force him to work they would just start building up a past due account IF Christine got an order for him to pay child support and IF she turned it over to the state to collect.

I really shouldn't have said to not pay child support because that was also a guess. Really the only other fact is he quit going to work.

So only 2 facts. He quit going to work and his car was in Federal Way.

Last edited by CW; 05-17-2008 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Due to quote being edited.
  #387  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:52 PM
Otter Otter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassi214 View Post
Our Costco here (Virginia) works differently I guess?

We need to show our card in order to get into the store.
Then when we pay at the registers.
We only need to show the receipt upon our exit.
Welcome sassi!

I gave up as a paying customer about 2 years ago, and that's the way it used to work! Now I just occasionally tag along with someone.

Regardless, it certainly seems that any purchase can be verified.
  #388  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Floh Floh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyQuestions View Post
You have to start a new thread, then near the bottom is an option to create a poll.
Will you do it?

can we think of poll questions other than:

Nicholas Francisco: Dead or Alive?

i want to know where we stand as of now.
  #389  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:55 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyQuestions View Post
This is coming to the point where the only thing we can believe is Nicholas' car was found in Federal Way.

If Christine can't be believe then he may not even be missing but may have told her he was leaving with a friend for a road trip and don't ever expect him back. He might have even said he was leaving and moving in with a new girl friend and wanted to keep the car but the police took it.

At some point we have to believe that some facts are true because if we don't then THE ONLY fact is the car was found with NO evidence in Federal Way.

We also can't just discard the ones that don't fit with what we want to be the truth. Although I'm not sure anyone has a clue as to what they want as the truth.

ETA Oh and he also decided not to work any more but that could just be so he wouldn't have to pay child support.
Generally, facts are considered to be true, false facts are untrue. It is accepted as fact that Nicholas's car was found in the condo p-lot. It is speculation that he knew someone from that condo complex, for example. Perhaps you meant that, some statements or info may be true insteadof some facts are true.

I believe that if we accept info and statements as facts when we have no proof or reliable sources to back up claims of fact inadvertent false fact can and does result, which can make a thread go sideways and possibly hurt people.

Yet, I also think that we need to fully explore the possibilities to discern whether or not they are or may be determined to be fact. Otter posted that it has been determined that Nicholas did not use his Costco card that night. The info comes from what many consider to a reliable source--AMW per LE involved with the case. This is what I am looking for--the facts as best as we can determine them and use them to help us find Nicholas and what may have happened.
  #390  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:00 PM
LionRun LionRun is offline
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Sassi, welcome to websleuths, and welcome to Nicholas's thread.
  #391  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:06 PM
Dexter17 Dexter17 is offline
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lurking here-
We have a few facts:

1. NF is still listed as a missing person
2. His car was found with no evidence of foul play
3. He never made it home that night, 2/13, as per LE & CF
4. He took $50 from an ATM 3-4 minutes after he was last seen leaving work.
5. He left his sketchbooks on his desk
6. He had an online presence that was unknown to his wife.
7. The family resigned from MH a few days before he went missing
8. Ground searches have turned up nothing.

More?
JMO
  #392  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:08 PM
Poo Poo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyQuestions View Post
No one could force him to work they would just start building up a past due account IF Christine got an order for him to pay child support and IF she turned it over to the state to collect.

I really shouldn't have said to not pay child support because that was also a guess. Really the only other fact is he quit going to work.

So only 2 facts. He quit going to work and his car was in Federal Way.
I have a friend who never pursued child support, she said it wasn't worth the hassle because her ex was so irresponsible she knew he wouldn't pay and would end up going to jail and never get to see his daughters as they grew. She said he was just stubborn enough to refuse to follow the order of the court and probably would not even post bond to get out of jail! Over the years she just accepted any money he gave her when she complained, and he did things in and around the house for her, and spent time with the children. She considered it an acceptable trade off with less hassle, and the courts never knew she wasn't receiving CS payments directly from him as had been arranged.

So you are correct, unless Christine gets the State involved there will be no charges, or attempts at enforcement of child support. Some states are still very slack regarding enforcing child support orders. I doubt most states will do much for you if you don't have some information regarding the location of the father. If Nicholas assumes a new identity and SS#, or has left the country, it is very unlikely he will ever have to worry about child support orders or payments. Nicholas won't be the first or last man to figure out a way to avoid paying child support IF this turns out to be the case.
  #393  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:09 PM
Floh Floh is offline
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Mini poll then:

Nicholas Francisco:

Dead

Alive

i know this works not, but i can't bear it. not knowing how everyone feels and not being able to create this bloody poll.
  #394  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:20 PM
Poo Poo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter17 View Post
lurking here-
We have a few facts:

1. NF is still listed as a missing person
2. His car was found with no evidence of foul play
3. He never made it home that night, 2/13, as per LE & CF
4. He took $50 from an ATM 3-4 minutes after he was last seen leaving work.
5. He left his sketchbooks on his desk
6. He had an online presence that was unknown to his wife.
7. The family resigned from MH a few days before he went missing
8. Ground searches have turned up nothing.

More?
JMO
#1 is a fact
#2 is a fact, unless LE is hiding information about prints or something else found in the car
#3 LE can't KNOW this as a fact, we only have CF's word for this
#4 is a fact assuming the co-worker was correct about the time she saw NF leave work and she probably was IF CF talked to NF around 6pm
#5 according to his co-worker, carealot, this isn't significant-they all have lots of sketch books laying around
#6 has this been confirmed by LE, or just confirmation of a secret life?
#7 is a fact since MHC said on their website he was no longer a member of course we don't know for a fact when he resigned
#8 is a fact as far as we know

Adding #9 & 10 Nicholas told his co-worker (s) his cell phone battery was dead. LE discovered a cell call he made that afternoon around 4:30.
#10 LE was not able to track pings on Nicholas' cell phone meaning either the battery was dead or he removed it.

So the way I see it we have maybe 5 facts in this case after 3 long months of Nicholas being gone.

Last edited by Poo; 05-17-2008 at 05:27 PM. Reason: add a fact
  #395  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:22 PM
SoManyQuestions SoManyQuestions is offline
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Floh your poll is made.
  #396  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:25 PM
SoManyQuestions SoManyQuestions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poo View Post
#1 is a fact
#2 is a fact, unless LE is hiding information about prints or something else found in the car
#3 LE can't KNOW this as a fact, we only have CF's word for this
#4 is a fact assuming the co-worker was correct about the time she saw NF leave work and she probably was IF CF talked to NF around 6pm
#5 according to his co-worker, carealot, this isn't significant-they all have lots of sketch books laying around
#6 has this been confirmed by LE, or just confirmation of a secret life?
#7 is a fact since MHC said on their website he was no longer a member of course we don't know for a fact when he resigned
#8 is a fact as far as we know

So the way I see it we have maybe 5 facts in this case after 3 long months of Nicholas being gone.
So in the end nothing the boards do makes a figs bit of difference because nothing can be known for sure and nothing that is said by anyone can be trusted.

BTW nothing that Carealot can be trusted either because we can't even be sure she worked with him.
  #397  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:27 PM
Dexter17 Dexter17 is offline
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just trying to organize my thoughts a little. There isn't much to go on. But for the most part, it seems those things I listed are what we've managed to come up with. Not counting the wild speculation and misinformation from the media, etc.
JMO
Thanks for clarifying, Poo
  #398  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:30 PM
sassi214 sassi214 is offline
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Quote:
Hi sassi214. welcome to Websleuths!
Hello Floh! Thanks for the welcome.
I feel like I already know you guys, I've been lurking so long!
  #399  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:32 PM
sassi214 sassi214 is offline
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Welcome sassi!
Thanks Otter. Glad to be here, officially! (It took a while to get registered.)
  #400  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:35 PM
Poo Poo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter17 View Post
just trying to organize my thoughts a little. There isn't much to go on. But for the most part, it seems those things I listed are what we've managed to come up with. Not counting the wild speculation and misinformation from the media, etc.
JMO
Thanks for clarifying, Poo
Thank you and that was a good start. I edited my post to add a couple more facts. I'm glad you took my post in the spirit it was meant. I am just forcing myself to try and look at each and every bit of evidence as Lions Run suggested. Truth is we know very little for a fact. It is so easy to fall into the trap of buying into something we read or hear but the only source we have to believe as stating the true facts is LE, and we all know they hold back some information if necessary to protect a case. Fact is it's depressing to think how little information we have to rely on in this case in our effort to get to the bottom of what may have happened to Nicholas.
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