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  #451  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:02 AM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Fuel

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Originally Posted by hominid View Post
The 12 minute burn is barely in the ballpark of what the flight reported. 5750lbs/hr/engine where they reported 4500. But the last three minutes seemed to have burned an inordinate amount. Just that last 3 minutes would be 9960 lb/hr/engine. More than 2x what they reported. Seems odd the last 3 minutes would burn so much more. When you flew this, did you have much load other than fuel?

Your giving the logged comm. re distance and the NWA report info re. distance highlights something significant about the NWA report. It appears at least for the short series of events that were logged at 7:42 on the comm transcript that NWA separated them to a close sequence of times separated by 1 minute each, and in the same sequence. The times on the comm transcript were the times entered automatically when the send key was pressed, not the times when the individual lines were keyed in. It is odd that the report statement for 7:43 was part of the logged comm for 7:42.
I have 3 pilots on board and two passengers (HJ Tina) no luggage and a full tank, past the 12 minute mark I went to 30 degrees and climbed to 10,000, forgot to mention that.

I just got done running several gear test's and the plane pitches upward and I am at a airspeed of 350 and it drops to 300 within 10 seconds, got some pics showing the pitch and the pics you requested, I will put them up in several minutes.
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  #452  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:14 AM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Photo's

here is the link, click on the next photo etc etc, remember you can enlarge the photo by clicking on it, then click again to return to the next pic.

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/...nt%3DLEVEL.jpg

Ok, I screwed up bigtime, I was traveling too fast for the intention of putting the gear down, this would of damaged the gear at the speed I was going but I have turned off the damage and stress button, I flew at a much slower speed and the plane slowly tilted downward VS upward at the 350 KIAS I was going at. this time I was at around 180.

Last edited by MrShutter45; 07-08-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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  #453  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:48 AM
hominid hominid is offline
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Night view of '71 Portland/Vancouver from north

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Originally Posted by hominid View Post
By rotating and cropping the FBI flightpath map, squeezing it down vertically, and adding perspective, this is sort of like the cities would have looked when approaching from the north on a clear night. Oh, yeah. The gold color represents the city lights.
I figured out that it would be easier to see the light pattern if I made the rest of it black.
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File Type: bmp PortlndPersp.bmp (60.5 KB, 15 views)
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  #454  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:05 AM
hominid hominid is offline
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Gear Test

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Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
Ok, I screwed up bigtime, I was traveling too fast for the intention of putting the gear down, this would of damaged the gear at the speed I was going but I have turned off the damage and stress button, I flew at a much slower speed and the plane slowly tilted downward VS upward at the 350 KIAS I was going at. this time I was at around 180.
If I understand correctly, the pix were from when you were dropping the gear at too high a speed. If so, ALL is right with the simulated world. First, you were going faster than is allowed for dropping the gear. I'm glad you were able to avoid crashing Second, you get correct direction of pitch and deceleration when you drop the gear at an appropriate airspeed. Nose-down pitch and decelleration are what should happen in the real world so I think it would be safe to assume that the simulator is at least closely accounting for the increased drag from dropping the gear.
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  #455  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:14 AM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Gear

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Originally Posted by hominid View Post
If I understand correctly, the pix were from when you were dropping the gear at too high a speed. If so, ALL is right with the simulated world. First, you were going faster than is allowed for dropping the gear. I'm glad you were able to avoid crashing Second, you get correct direction of pitch and deceleration when you drop the gear at an appropriate airspeed. Nose-down pitch and decelleration are what should happen in the real world so I think it would be safe to assume that the simulator is at least closely accounting for the increased drag from dropping the gear.
yes those pics are from high speeds, I was looking it up and reading when it hit me about gear down at high speeds will damage the gear, so I cranked up the sim and sure enough the plane started to go downward and slow down.

all part of being a test pilot

your pic shows up too small to see.....
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  #456  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:23 PM
hominid hominid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hominid View Post
.....It is odd that the report statement for 7:43 was part of the logged comm for 7:42.
Actually, not odd. Because the comm logging doesn't include seconds, the last part of what was logged at 7:42 could have happened up to 7:42:59.
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  #457  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:29 PM
hominid hominid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
.....your pic shows up too small to see.....
Just like Portland way out in the distance You did click the pic, right? You lookin at it on a smartfone? Don't to try to analyze any fine detail on it.
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  #458  
Old 07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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"Project 305"

I have a new plane I will be using for the test flying, it's a Boeing 727-100 1963.
the first 4 pics are of the plane to be used.

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  #459  
Old 07-09-2012, 09:54 PM
hominid hominid is offline
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Climb rate & takeoff time

Because the flight was unpressurized, the flight could have climbed at a rate no greater than 2000'/minute. Any higher climb rate would have been potentially uncomfortable or even dangerous for the occupants. This is why full-scale reading on the CLIMB rate meter at the FE console is 2000. The pressurization system would normally keep the change rate of the pressure in the cabin within these limits although the plane would typically rise and descend at a higher rate (the plane vertical speed indicator has full scale of 6000'/minute).

If the pilot was "pushing it," the climb rate might have been up around 1600ft/minute.

Between 7:40:06 and 7:40:37 the plane went from "through 6500 ft" to "leveling at 7000." This was an average climb rate of very closely 1000 ft/min, which is about average normal climb rate. This rate was probably reduced a bit by the flight already leveling off.

Assume the plane took off at exactly 7:36 (as the NWA incident report says, minus the "exactly"). This would mean the plane rose 6112' from 388' at SEATAC in 4.1 minutes, for an average climb rate of 1491 ft/min--about as much as the pilot would have gone for since the plane was unpressurized. If takeoff had been at 7:36:59, the average rate would have been 1972 ft/min--the maximum that would be safe, and almost "pegging" the cabin climb rate meter. Takeoff would probably not have been more than half past 7:36.

What about an "estimated" 7:33 takeoff (as on n467us.com)? This would be close to 860 ft/min getting to 6500'. Taking off almost a minute later would have brought the climb rate up to 1000'/min.

Getting up to altitude expeditiously, consistent with occupant safety/comfort, would minimize fuel usage and maximize range for the overall trip. So the 7:36 takeoff as stated in the NWA incident report seems most likely.
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  #460  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:44 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Altitude

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Originally Posted by hominid View Post
Because the flight was unpressurized, the flight could have climbed at a rate no greater than 2000'/minute. Any higher climb rate would have been potentially uncomfortable or even dangerous for the occupants. This is why full-scale reading on the CLIMB rate meter at the FE console is 2000. The pressurization system would normally keep the change rate of the pressure in the cabin within these limits although the plane would typically rise and descend at a higher rate (the plane vertical speed indicator has full scale of 6000'/minute).

If the pilot was "pushing it," the climb rate might have been up around 1600ft/minute.

Between 7:40:06 and 7:40:37 the plane went from "through 6500 ft" to "leveling at 7000." This was an average climb rate of very closely 1000 ft/min, which is about average normal climb rate. This rate was probably reduced a bit by the flight already leveling off.

Assume the plane took off at exactly 7:36 (as the NWA incident report says, minus the "exactly"). This would mean the plane rose 6112' from 388' at SEATAC in 4.1 minutes, for an average climb rate of 1491 ft/min--about as much as the pilot would have gone for since the plane was unpressurized. If takeoff had been at 7:36:59, the average rate would have been 1972 ft/min--the maximum that would be safe, and almost "pegging" the cabin climb rate meter. Takeoff would probably not have been more than half past 7:36.

What about an "estimated" 7:33 takeoff (as on n467us.com)? This would be close to 860 ft/min getting to 6500'. Taking off almost a minute later would have brought the climb rate up to 1000'/min.

Getting up to altitude expeditiously, consistent with occupant safety/comfort, would minimize fuel usage and maximize range for the overall trip. So the 7:36 takeoff as stated in the NWA incident report seems most likely.
That sounds about right, it takes me 4 minutes to get to that altitude at a 10+ degree climb, I never checked by the minute, another thing to check, Yikes

I need to link you to my computer for a co-pilot, it can be done...I think
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  #461  
Old 07-10-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
yes those pics are from high speeds, I was looking it up and reading when it hit me about gear down at high speeds will damage the gear, so I cranked up the sim and sure enough the plane started to go downward and slow down.

all part of being a test pilot

your pic shows up too small to see.....
Actually the gear itself will generally be fine but the air load will screw up the doors. The gear is pretty strong, the doors not so much.


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  #462  
Old 07-12-2012, 11:29 PM
georger georger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
Actually the gear itself will generally be fine but the air load will screw up the doors. The gear is pretty strong, the doors not so much.


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  #463  
Old 07-14-2012, 11:29 PM
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Good Luck everyone. Will enjoy hearing how this turns out
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  #464  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:26 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Project 305

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Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
Good Luck everyone. Will enjoy hearing how this turns out
Thanks, everything is going pretty good, I have been able to match the first 7 minute into the flight with the help of my wingman Hominid

still lots of testing and learning going on, I thought I would start a Facebook page to store the information rather than constant updates and jamming the thread here.

http://www.facebook.com/Project305
here is some video (bad quality) but shws the inside and some of my trial landing attempts.


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  #465  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:48 AM
idla idla is offline
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Shutter45:

I have an address, but if you could "pinpoint" for me to confirm, would appreciate much. For your efforts, I'll even let you in on the result.......which of course, will shock.

idla
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  #466  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:43 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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??????

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Originally Posted by idla View Post
Shutter45:

I have an address, but if you could "pinpoint" for me to confirm, would appreciate much. For your efforts, I'll even let you in on the result.......which of course, will shock.

idla
you are joking right? I don't understand because all you had to do was cross ref the email and I'm not certain about tracking a hotmail account?

If you have a address it seems you have "pinpointed" it yourself??????

Last edited by MrShutter45; 07-27-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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  #467  
Old 07-28-2012, 04:42 AM
idla idla is offline
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address

Shutter:

That's why I initially contacted you, as advised that you could get er done. The address that I have is of a general nature, most likely a larger complex, like town houses, condos, or a shopping mall. If you can use your expertise to assist, by getting a precise location, I can match up with a name. If you cannot do, then no problem. Just tell me and I'll move along. Thanx.
idla
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  #468  
Old 07-28-2012, 06:30 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idla View Post
Shutter:

That's why I initially contacted you, as advised that you could get er done. The address that I have is of a general nature, most likely a larger complex, like town houses, condos, or a shopping mall. If you can use your expertise to assist, by getting a precise location, I can match up with a name. If you cannot do, then no problem. Just tell me and I'll move along. Thanx.
idla

what is the address?
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  #469  
Old 07-29-2012, 04:23 AM
idla idla is offline
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Redmond, WA

The Redmond Professional Bldg, or Chelsea Square Townhouses, both located right near the intersection of 164th Avenue NE and NE 85th Street. Another possibilility was "Town Square," but turns out that is a very large complex with many businesses and even a four-star hotel. The intersection address I gave you is right near downtown Redmond and is somewhat upscale.
Thanks for any assistance you can lend, Shutter. If we can locate the source for the e-mail address, I'll share the result through our third party. idla
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  #470  
Old 07-29-2012, 04:25 AM
idla idla is offline
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ps.....

forgot to mention that an earlier, incomplete search stated a "47-year old male" owns that particuar e-mail address.
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  #471  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:56 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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address

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Originally Posted by idla View Post
forgot to mention that an earlier, incomplete search stated a "47-year old male" owns that particuar e-mail address.
I'm still not sure about the address I found, Hotmail accounts are hard to trace, it was a shock to see the area it came from, I don't know, plus now you have apartment complexes, these are impossible to track online because they don't own them unlike a home or condo that can be traced to the owner.
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  #472  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:07 AM
georger georger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
I just find this whole case confusing and troubling at the same time, why does the FBI hold back most of the evidence to this case 40 years after the fact? why do we have Mr Decoder hiding in the darkness, what is the purpose of hiding anything for a simple Hijacking that became unsolved, The FBI claims they want to close the case and yet refuse to release what they have.

I could ask the same question to you, why do you want to know about Mr Decoder and yet give clues as to who "he" is?
There probably is no single answer, but I am guessing along with everyone
else. And the vacuum only generates more and more conspiracies, wanna
bees with claims, endlessly.

My guess is there are reputations to protect, a case still active but even
that is hard to swallow, and perhaps some evidence to protect? I know
this for a fact: after I got into the case things quickly became very
convoluted with lots of actual sidebars and sub-plots, as I learned the
actual historical facts of the case in all of its complex glory. This case
became so complex I seriously doubt anyone had a handle on it all after
1980, for example.

No book written to date even touches on all of this complexity. I doubt it
could. That may be why in the end Gray gave up and wrote a complex
"farce" where nothing really connects?

If you had to write an epitaph today, "undecidable" would be it with ten
thousand sub plots...

Sorry Ive been away. Will try to check in more often..

Last edited by georger; 08-12-2012 at 01:31 AM.
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  #473  
Old 09-02-2012, 07:00 PM
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Question



What happened to you guys GeorgeR, hominid, and MrShutter?? You didn't crash your plane, did you, MrShutter??

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  #474  
Old 09-03-2012, 07:36 AM
BarneyFife BarneyFife is offline
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I think you discount Knoss a little quickly. I have followed the Cooper story for a long time and tend to subscribe to most of what he has said. Bits and pieces and never a story line, can't pin him down on anything, but when I add up everything, it does make some sense.
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  #475  
Old 09-07-2012, 10:54 PM
MrShutter45 MrShutter45 is offline
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Bob Knoss

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Originally Posted by BarneyFife View Post
I think you discount Knoss a little quickly. I have followed the Cooper story for a long time and tend to subscribe to most of what he has said. Bits and pieces and never a story line, can't pin him down on anything, but when I add up everything, it does make some sense.

my guess would be that you are Bob Knoss, only old Bob would use a television name such as you have done, if you really think Bob is telling the truth then you need to check your facts!! right Bob!

you know how you claim the flight path was 15 miles off to the east which makes zero sense,

the fact that there never was a pipeline running along side the Columbia river.

The fact of him using friends as part of the big Government cover up.

old Bob claims that Bill Rataczak was a parachute rigger????

claims Janets story was true even though Bob put Cooper on the ground miles before Janet claimed to of seen a man on the stairs of a plane the night of the hijacking....10,000 feet in the air at night in bad weather? then he claimed she was in Portland and not Vancouver/ this Bob Knoss you follow?

The fact that Bob thinks a milk can buried close to a river for over 7 years would still hold it's contents in perfect condition?

The Bob Knoss who can't explain his own draft period? how does one forget that process?

need anymore of the truth of Bob Knoss? I got plenty! nice try Bob!

I don't believe we have talked about Knoss on this thread so why would you say this? I really don't care and if you are Knoss you will not remain here to start trouble!!

Last edited by MrShutter45; 09-07-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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