Reasonable Doubt

[krimekat]

I have not seen a dedicated thread regarding this subject but it has been discussed in many threads . . . I believe the Defense (Baez, Anthony's, etc.) is "building a case" of so much garbage that during the trial, there will be reasonable doubt to convict her of homicide . . .

Also, Baez himself has stated HE has told Casey not to talk to anyone . . . LE, family, friends. Lawyers usually consult their clients who are in serius trouble to CLAM UP. Otherwise, why would there be a need not to be honest with authorities: OCPD, Child Services, FBI, a pastor, a therapist, a fellow inmate.

JMHO -- Websleuths Rock!!!

[belleyes]

Originally Posted by krimekat

I have not seen a dedicated thread regarding this subject but it has been discussed in many threads . . . I believe the Defense (Baez, Anthony's, etc.) is "building a case" of so much garbage that during the trial, there will be reasonable doubt to convict her of homicide . . .
:

THANK YOU for this thread. I've been saying this for awhile. They have been building their defense since day 1. With so many questions, lies, twists and turns a jury will have a difficult time convicting "beyond a reasonable doubt". IMO having daddy's knowledge (of homicide cases) in LE and the "31"days to blur the time of death and evidence they have been creating doubt from the first day.

[manatee]

Originally Posted by belleyes

THANK YOU for this thread. I've been saying this for awhile. They have been building their defense since day 1. With so many questions, lies, twists and turns a jury will have a difficult time convicting "beyond a reasonable doubt". IMO having daddy's knowledge (of homicide cases) in LE and the "31"days to blur the time of death and evidence they have been creating doubt from the first day.

Sorry. This is no OJ dream team. We've all seen and heard this before "garbage in garbage out." Baez is no Johny Cohran! So like Marc garagos with Scott Peterson, it will not work. The jury is already too smart for that.
I do think LE arrested Casey too soon. They should have used Tony and done the same thing that they did to Scott with Amber.

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by krimekat

I have not seen a dedicated thread regarding this subject but it has been discussed in many threads . . . I believe the Defense (Baez, Anthony's, etc.) is "building a case" of so much garbage that during the trial, there will be reasonable doubt to NOT convict her of homicide . . .

Also, Baez himself has stated HE has told Casey not to talk to anyone . . . LE, family, friends. Lawyers usually consult their clients who are in serius trouble to CLAM UP. Otherwise, why would there be a need not to be honest with authorities: OCPD, Child Services, FBI, a pastor, a therapist, a fellow inmate.

JMHO -- Websleuths Rock!!!

Meant to say she would NOT be convicted

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by manatee

Sorry. This is no OJ dream team. We've all seen and heard this before "garbage in garbage out." Baez is no Johny Cohran! So like Marc garagos with Scott Peterson, it will not work. The jury is already too smart for that.
I do think LE arrested Casey too soon. They should have used Tony and done the same thing that they did to Scott with Amber.

totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by manatee

Sorry. This is no OJ dream team. We've all seen and heard this before "garbage in garbage out." Baez is no Johny Cohran! So like Marc garagos with Scott Peterson, it will not work. The jury is already too smart for that.
I do think LE arrested Casey too soon. They should have used Tony and done the same thing that they did to Scott with Amber.

I was SHOCKED when Baez said to Greta that he could not respond to her questions (the other night On The Record) b/c it is part of his Opening Statement? Almost as damning as " . . . my daughter's been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today. But I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There’s something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car." 911 call #3

Duh

[LoriKeet]

I also think Baez and company think the public from which a jury will be selected is stupid!

As far as I'm concerned in order to propose arguments of "reasonable doubt" one would at least have to have a REASONABLE accounting/time line of what REALLY happened!

NOTHING I have heard from ANY of the Anthony's is the least bit REASONABLE to consider. Even before Cindy started flapping her gums, the sheer FACT that Casey did not report her daughter missing for at least 31 DAYS, is a huge red flag, and casts the most reasonable doubt in my mind that she is innocent!

[LI_Mom]

Originally Posted by manatee

Sorry. This is no OJ dream team. We've all seen and heard this before "garbage in garbage out." Baez is no Johny Cohran! So like Marc garagos with Scott Peterson, it will not work. The jury is already too smart for that.
I do think LE arrested Casey too soon. They should have used Tony and done the same thing that they did to Scott with Amber.

I agree with everyone else.... this has ALWAYS been about protecting Casey against the eventual homicide charges. For her lawyer AND for her family.

But sorry..... refusing to cooperate with LE to find your own 3 year old baby is SO offensive, SO despicable, SO inhuman.... I think the only way she'll beat the rap is if the jury is presented with a VERY solid defense & LOGICAL & SANE reason why she behaved the way she did.

If by some miracle a jury fails to come back with a guilty verdict, Casey should contact OJ & see how that worked out for him. Maybe Casey & OJ can even host an annual golf tournament.....

"Our Search for Zenaida-Real Killer Golf Tournament"

[Fandy]

Casey secured herself a lawyer the minute she was arrested? (I missed the beginning first week of this case).

She was concerned about covering her actions from the get-go. But I agree, refusing to cooperate to find YOUR OWN CHILD is more than offensive. Every juror will have this train of thought....jmo of course.....because they are normal compassionate people.

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by LI_Mom

IMaybe Casey & OJ can even host an annual golf tournament....."Our Search for Zenaida-Real Killer Golf Tournament"

Awesome!!!!

[french75]

I was thinking that reasonable doubt can be established based on the fact that the car was out of her possession for weeks a few weeks. Other people had access to that car when it was in the tow yard. One of those people could have used the car to move a body, then there's the decomp smell. Something from the car could have been removed and put in the yard so there's the explanation for the hit in the yard.

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by Fandy

Casey secured herself a lawyer the minute she was arrested? (I missed the beginning first week of this case).

She was concerned about covering her actions from the get-go. But I agree, refusing to cooperate to find YOUR OWN CHILD is more than offensive. Every juror will have this train of thought....jmo of course.....because they are normal compassionate people.

Yes, retained within DAYS of being in jail. Maybe her former LE buddy provided her the idea of NOT SPEAKING . . . jmho

[manatee]

Originally Posted by LI_Mom

.......
If by some miracle a jury fails to come back with a guilty verdict, Casey should contact OJ & see how that worked out for him. Maybe Casey & OJ can even host an annual golf tournament.....

"Our Search for Zenaida-Real Killer Golf Tournament"

AND

Don't forget Scott P and the devil worshippers that took Lacy for the baby!!! They are out there

[Jolynna]

Originally Posted by LoriKeet

I also think Baez and company think the public from which a jury will be selected is stupid!

As far as I'm concerned in order to propose arguments of "reasonable doubt" one would at least have to have a REASONABLE accounting/time line of what REALLY happened!

NOTHING I have heard from ANY of the Anthony's is the least bit REASONABLE to consider. Even before Cindy started flapping her gums, the sheer FACT that Casey did not report her daughter missing for at least 31 DAYS, is a huge red flag, and casts the most reasonable doubt in my mind that she is innocent!

But, there is actual evidence she is guilty of what?

Was she negligent? Did Caylee die in a hot car? Or fall in family pool?

Did she deliberately kill her daughter because Caylee was an impediment to a relationship with Anthony Lazzaro? Or to get even with her mother?

Did a stranger find Caylee sleeping in the car while Casey partied, molest her in a dark parking lot and then stuff Caylee's body in the trunk? (kind of like the prosecutorial theory in the Jon Benet case)

At this early point in the case while evidence is still out to be brought in that COULD pinpoint WHAT happened, the state isn't going to be rushed into filing charges.

We all know Casey is guilty of something, but I am not sure how the state is going to PROVE a case when they don't yet know what the something is.

MOO

[manatee]

Originally Posted by Jolynna

But, there is actual evidence she is guilty of what?

Was she negligent? Did Caylee die in a hot car? Or fall in family pool?

Did she deliberately kill her daughter because Caylee was an impediment to a relationship with Anthony Lazzaro? Or to get even with her mother?

Did a stranger find Caylee sleeping in the car while Casey partied, molest her in a dark parking lot and then stuff Caylee's body in the trunk? (kind of like the prosecutorial theory in the Jon Benet case)

At this early point in the case while evidence is still out to be brought in that COULD pinpoint WHAT happened, the state isn't going to be rushed into filing charges.

We all know Casey is guilty of something, but I am not sure how the state is going to PROVE a case when they don't yet know what the something is.

MOO

I think: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOMETHING IS. Not yelling, just to clarify. I have faith that LE is holding all the cards and not showing Baez nor the defense yet.

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by manatee

I think: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOMETHING IS. Not yelling, just to clarify. I have faith that LE is holding all the cards and not showing Baez nor the defense yet.

I totally agree. They do not have to show us anything . . . until Discovery

[LI_Mom]

Originally Posted by manatee

AND

Don't forget Scott P and the devil worshippers that took Lacy for the baby!!! They are out there

Yes, but at least the jury got it right in Scott's case.

It's in a whole different realm when an innocent child is the victim.

Baez should try to seat a jury who have never had any children in their families.... anyone who has had personal experience with a 2 year old is going to have a BIG problem understanding how a (allegedly) human mother could be so cavalier about losing her own child.

I think it's ALL over for Casey the minute the prosecution plays the tape of her begging, pleading, demanding that someone give her Tony's phone number. Poor girl was frantic that she was apart from this very special person in her life........ so we know she understands that if you're trying to find someone you must ASK people for their help.

[Fandy]

the first phone call asking for Tony's phone number along with Cindy's 3rd 911 call will make it difficult for any jury to NOT convict her.

[kidz110]

Originally Posted by LI_Mom

........ so we know she understands that if you're trying to find someone you must ASK people for their help.

I love that line! You are so right.

[Amberjack]

IMO Baez' and Anthony's "Reasonable Doubt"

* Casey owed someone money
They took Caylee until debt was to be paid

* Casey accidentally left Caylee in the car & the car was stolen by them...Along with Caylee.

* A "babysitter" obsessed with little Caylee moved away from Florida with Caylee

* Casey had left Caylee with friends & one of them harmed Caylee

* The true father showed up & took Caylee for himself & his family

* While Casey was buying drugs in a bad neighborhood she left Caylee hidden in the trunk of the car...for too long.....

And, I have some swamp land in Florida I'm selling....
Are you "buying"?

[jeepgirlva]

Originally Posted by Fandy

the first phone call asking for Tony's phone number along with Cindy's 3rd 911 call will make it difficult for any jury to NOT convict her.

Does anyone know did she ever talk to Tony? ...If i was on the jury i could convict her from the 911 calls and the first call home from jail you hear no urgence in her voice at all about Caylee ..now you do hear it when she is trying to get Tony's # ...

[krimekat]

Originally Posted by jeepgirlva

Does anyone know did she ever talk to Tony? ...If i was on the jury i could convict her from the 911 calls and the first call home from jail you hear no urgence in her voice at all about Caylee ..now you do hear it when she is trying to get Tony's # ...

The only thing I can remember is Clint (TonEs old roomie until 1 July) said they BOTH have distanced themselves from the Fusion crowd & Casey during his interview with Greta OTR

[kgeaux]

Originally Posted by LoriKeet

I also think Baez and company think the public from which a jury will be selected is stupid!

As far as I'm concerned in order to propose arguments of "reasonable doubt" one would at least have to have a REASONABLE accounting/time line of what REALLY happened!

NOTHING I have heard from ANY of the Anthony's is the least bit REASONABLE to consider. Even before Cindy started flapping her gums, the sheer FACT that Casey did not report her daughter missing for at least 31 DAYS, is a huge red flag, and casts the most reasonable doubt in my mind that she is innocent!

I don't think the defense attorney wishes to have jurors who are stupid. He will wish to have jurors who know that everything they've heard on tv is not necessarily true; he will want jurors who will come to the trial with a blank slate and make a decision as to guilt or not based ONLY on the evidence presented.

Having said that, I will certainly agree that what we've heard from the crimetainment shows and family members make Casey seem guilty of SOMETHING. Whether she murdered the child, is attempting to cover up an accidental death, or sold her baby on the black market, she certainly seems guilty of something. The prosecutor just needs to find out WHICH scenario is most likely and somehow gather evidence that amounts to more than what they seem to have available to them today.

[Vegas Bride]

What kind of juror is the defense going to look for? Could any mother sit on that jury and think she's innocent when she did nothing to look for her missing 2 year old for a month and then when she's found out, refuses to talk?
As a rule, I do believe women can "see through" other women easier than a man can. It will be very interesting to see how many women will be on that jury.

VB

[Hisimage]

Originally Posted by Jolynna

But, there is actual evidence she is guilty of what?

Was she negligent? Did Caylee die in a hot car? Or fall in family pool?

Did she deliberately kill her daughter because Caylee was an impediment to a relationship with Anthony Lazzaro? Or to get even with her mother?

Did a stranger find Caylee sleeping in the car while Casey partied, molest her in a dark parking lot and then stuff Caylee's body in the trunk? (kind of like the prosecutorial theory in the Jon Benet case)

At this early point in the case while evidence is still out to be brought in that COULD pinpoint WHAT happened, the state isn't going to be rushed into filing charges.

We all know Casey is guilty of something, but I am not sure how the state is going to PROVE a case when they don't yet know what the something is.

MOO

I was watching NG the other night and the woman who was filling in for her quoted Casey as saying she did not report Caylee missing because "theyre going to try to pin this on me". The substitute for NG said something to the effect of that proves her guilt. My question is: What is the "This" they are trying to pin on you? I don't get why that question wasn't addressed.
Did anybody else notice this ?