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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #176  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:16 PM
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You are fortunate to have escaped the clutches of such a nasty drug (TG good for YOU). Maybe there is a better thread for this question but I got to wondering... if someone DID use chloroform (say hypothetically in an effort to destroy or disguise ghastly decomp odor eg), how does it have to be handled; what precautions; and what effects if not handled properly?
  #177  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
Meth does not show up on the skin and teeth for a number of years in young people. It is a misconception that people have sores all over their bodies. That rarely happens until someone is in their 30s.

Casey had her teeth all capped,(most likely Lumineers) so there was a problem with her teeth, but most likely not from meth.

In some of the pictures if you blow them up, you will see she did have some type of sore places on her face, and neck occasionally.
I noticed the "zits" on her face early on in the case and immediately thought METH. The photos mostly were of her holding Caylee, when she was probably one or less.

  #178  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:49 PM
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My gut instinct says that she wasn't huffing chloroform and she wasn't using it to make meth.
Me too.
  #179  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
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You may be right Busylady, but on the other hand.....drug users are the masters of manipulation and will lie, cheat, and steal from anyone and everyone around them. They have no conscience when they are using.
What tells me she was a likely drug user is her trail of manipulated friends, family and even police officers. ANYTIME you see a person steal from their parents, the odds are 99% they are drug users. What told me she was in a later stage of addiction was the stealing from her grandparents and her friend Amy. She knew she would be caught, but did it anyway. That is addiction.

Some blame her being a sociopath or manic depressive, but neither of those will steal knowing they are going to be caught. A sociopath will steal but they set it up where they are in the clear. In a manic stage of MD, they will spend excessive amounts of money but usually will not steal to do it.

I feel KC had reached the point in her addiction, there were no boundaries and no one was immune to her thefts. She was no longer manipulating to get money, but outright stealing knowing she would be caught. Many times addicts want to be caught because they want help. I do not see her there yet, I see her running the game as long as the friends held out and I believe she was headed to California for a whole new set of friends. I have decided she most likely destroyed Caylee in a meth/crack rage, and had no remorse because she saw that as her way to escape to California for more easier drugs. That is why she did not mind to burn her bridges with friends in Orlando.
  #180  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Carol B View Post
I noticed the "zits" on her face early on in the case and immediately thought METH. The photos mostly were of her holding Caylee, when she was probably one or less.

I noticed too but when Caylee was one or less, Casey was what, 18? 19? Am I the only one who still got zits at that age every time I had a menstrual period? Or have the miracles of modern medicine eradicated zits along with polio and smallpox?

Actually, I have break outs even now (at 52) that are related to thyroid. I sure hope nobody looks at my photos and thinks, "Yep. She's a meth-head." Jus' sayin'
  #181  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Melly53 View Post
I have seen various recipes on the net for making meth but I have never seen one that called for cloroform as an ingredient. I do know that cloroform can be one of the by-products producted when making meth. I don't know how one would go about collecting the cloroform or if it could even be done. I just don't believe that the cloroform found in CA's trunk was for making meth. JMO
Exactly! That is my understanding about where the cloroform comes from i.e. meth manufacturing. That is why I keep posting about the colorform found in the trunk.

Mixing cleaning agents together (such as bleach and an antibacterial soap/detergent) will produce cloroform gas! As far as a computer search for cloraform I know I once mixed bleach and ammonia together and it nearly made me pass out. I looked up things you should not mix with bleach because of dangers.

The computer search that supposedly was done may have mererly contained coloraform in the warnings and since LE looks at every little thing as possible evidence - that may have been all it was! Perhaps Cindy or Casey were looking up things to remove that stain and a site warned againist mixing things together because it would produce coloraform gas.
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  #182  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
What tells me she was a likely drug user is her trail of manipulated friends, family and even police officers. ANYTIME you see a person steal from their parents, the odds are 99% they are drug users. What told me she was in a later stage of addiction was the stealing from her grandparents and her friend Amy. She knew she would be caught, but did it anyway. That is addiction.

Some blame her being a sociopath or manic depressive, but neither of those will steal knowing they are going to be caught. A sociopath will steal but they set it up where they are in the clear. In a manic stage of MD, they will spend excessive amounts of money but usually will not steal to do it.

I feel KC had reached the point in her addiction, there were no boundaries and no one was immune to her thefts. She was no longer manipulating to get money, but outright stealing knowing she would be caught. Many times addicts want to be caught because they want help. I do not see her there yet, I see her running the game as long as the friends held out and I believe she was headed to California for a whole new set of friends. I have decided she most likely destroyed Caylee in a meth/crack rage, and had no remorse because she saw that as her way to escape to California for more easier drugs. That is why she did not mind to burn her bridges with friends in Orlando.
I think so too Turbo. I found it very interesting that she was not only stealing cash from family & friends but she actually used her OWN name and ID writing those checks on Amys account. She either had a plan to take off to Cali and start fresh (which I believe) or she just thought her parents would get her out of it like always. She obviously wasnt worried about it.
  #183  
Old 10-02-2008, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by missmybaby View Post
Also sounds like bipolar disorder!
it sure does... and the long list of personality disorders.

I don't think drugs were the cause of this... I do not think Casey was involved with meth.
  #184  
Old 10-02-2008, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
What tells me she was a likely drug user is her trail of manipulated friends, family and even police officers. ANYTIME you see a person steal from their parents, the odds are 99% they are drug users. What told me she was in a later stage of addiction was the stealing from her grandparents and her friend Amy. She knew she would be caught, but did it anyway. That is addiction.

Some blame her being a sociopath or manic depressive, but neither of those will steal knowing they are going to be caught. A sociopath will steal but they set it up where they are in the clear. In a manic stage of MD, they will spend excessive amounts of money but usually will not steal to do it.

I feel KC had reached the point in her addiction, there were no boundaries and no one was immune to her thefts. She was no longer manipulating to get money, but outright stealing knowing she would be caught. Many times addicts want to be caught because they want help. I do not see her there yet, I see her running the game as long as the friends held out and I believe she was headed to California for a whole new set of friends. I have decided she most likely destroyed Caylee in a meth/crack rage, and had no remorse because she saw that as her way to escape to California for more easier drugs. That is why she did not mind to burn her bridges with friends in Orlando.
Bold is mine.

You are misinformed about both illnesses if that is what you believe.
  #185  
Old 10-03-2008, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Inelastic View Post
Bold is mine.

You are misinformed about both illnesses if that is what you believe.
I am very well informed about both diseases, but I am also familiar with persons who use those diagnosis to cover drug addictions. I see it often.

Sociopath - The medical name of this disease is antisocial personality disorder and it is described in section 301.7 on page 706 in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV of the American Psychiatric Association. It turns out that antisocial personality disorder, or APD for short, is often misdiagnosed because the underlying cause is drug addiction. Because of the manipulative ability of a drug addict, they can often "fake" APD.

We have 7 senses. You know about about the first 5. The 6th is intuition and the 7th is conscience. A person with APD is a person completely lacking the 7th sense. Like some people are born blind, some persons are born without a conscience, although at first sight it is not obvious.

Like color blindness, APD is a genetic disease. Comparing monozygotic with dizygotic twins, scientists researching the Texas Adoption Project have estimated that APD is 64% inherited, the rest being acquired. Worse than many color blind people not being aware of their disease, the sociopaths cannot be aware of their disease because they do not have the conscience that is necessary to detect a conscience.

Manic Depression (bi-polar disorder) is a mental illness. It is rare when treated for a person to steal who is MD. The problem with many MD's is they won't take their medicine regularly.

There are some who believe in the psychological community that all addict/alcoholics are MD. My experience is if they are not when they start using drugs they are in their addiction.

Many MD use their "disease" to cover their addictions. That is one of the most common problems in dual diagnosis.
  #186  
Old 10-03-2008, 02:51 AM
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I have a question about the chloroform. Casey was taking other people checks and 'lifting' the account owners name and address off by removing the ink without harming the paper, at least what could be seen by eye. Then putting her own information on them. I have attempted to find out information on how or what one would use to do that without having to emerge the whole check in a solution bath. There are ways to artificially age paper etc but this process is different because you are treating all areas of the paper in the same manner.
Could the chloroform have been used as an agent to remove the ink from the Check.
  #187  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Can't Sleep View Post
I noticed too but when Caylee was one or less, Casey was what, 18? 19? Am I the only one who still got zits at that age every time I had a menstrual period? Or have the miracles of modern medicine eradicated zits along with polio and smallpox?

Actually, I have break outs even now (at 52) that are related to thyroid. I sure hope nobody looks at my photos and thinks, "Yep. She's a meth-head." Jus' sayin'


No kidding. I break out monthly.

I imagine my lovely teeth would save me though.... I think if KC was using meth she would have been a verifiable hooker or stripper long ago.
  #188  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
I am very well informed about both diseases, but I am also familiar with persons who use those diagnosis to cover drug addictions. I see it often.

Sociopath - The medical name of this disease is antisocial personality disorder and it is described in section 301.7 on page 706 in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV of the American Psychiatric Association. It turns out that antisocial personality disorder, or APD for short, is often misdiagnosed because the underlying cause is drug addiction. Because of the manipulative ability of a drug addict, they can often "fake" APD.

We have 7 senses. You know about about the first 5. The 6th is intuition and the 7th is conscience. A person with APD is a person completely lacking the 7th sense. Like some people are born blind, some persons are born without a conscience, although at first sight it is not obvious.

Like color blindness, APD is a genetic disease. Comparing monozygotic with dizygotic twins, scientists researching the Texas Adoption Project have estimated that APD is 64% inherited, the rest being acquired. Worse than many color blind people not being aware of their disease, the sociopaths cannot be aware of their disease because they do not have the conscience that is necessary to detect a conscience.

Manic Depression (bi-polar disorder) is a mental illness. It is rare when treated for a person to steal who is MD. The problem with many MD's is they won't take their medicine regularly.

There are some who believe in the psychological community that all addict/alcoholics are MD. My experience is if they are not when they start using drugs they are in their addiction.

Many MD use their "disease" to cover their addictions. That is one of the most common problems in dual diagnosis.

I disagree, I don't believe people are born without a conscience. Psychopaths aren't born, they're made.
  #189  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:35 AM
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She was actually altering the checks? I hadnt heard this, do you have a link that talks about her doing that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow of my mind View Post
I have a question about the chloroform. Casey was taking other people checks and 'lifting' the account owners name and address off by removing the ink without harming the paper, at least what could be seen by eye. Then putting her own information on them. I have attempted to find out information on how or what one would use to do that without having to emerge the whole check in a solution bath. There are ways to artificially age paper etc but this process is different because you are treating all areas of the paper in the same manner.
Could the chloroform have been used as an agent to remove the ink from the Check.
  #190  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Prayin_4_Grace View Post
I think so too Turbo. I found it very interesting that she was not only stealing cash from family & friends but she actually used her OWN name and ID writing those checks on Amys account. She either had a plan to take off to Cali and start fresh (which I believe) or she just thought her parents would get her out of it like always. She obviously wasnt worried about it.
What puzzles me about this is after June 15, Casey had one week of full access to AH's car and one week full access to AL's Jeep. She also had full access to AH's bank account and at least $1,400. So, why??? why??? didn't she flee using one of their vehicles? What more perfect time than that to secretly drive out of Orlando in the vehicle of someone who is out of town, so it wouldn't be noticed by the owner? Drive to another state, pay cash for gasoline until you get to a good place where the vehicle could be ditched in a body of water, then walk to a bus station and pay cash for a bus ticket to California or where ever you want to go and disappear off the face of the earth? Something here just doesn't quite make sense. She WAS trying to get gas for her own car when it was at the Amscot, but failed to do so. Then it was towed. But she had two excellent opportunities to disappear. So what was keeping her in Orlando?
  #191  
Old 10-03-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Busylady View Post
She was actually altering the checks? I hadnt heard this, do you have a link that talks about her doing that?
I picked this up from posts on this site. I also remembering hearing this on some newsshow but I have no idea now which one or who. Seems to me it one of the Florida channels that was doing live broadcast during the day that you could watch streaming.

There is indication if the the one newsreport is correct that Casey had some form of ID in Amy H.'s name. Then the post on WS made mention of the fact that Casey name was on the checks along with her signature.

My question came about because I was wondering how one would go about changing a name on a check. > to the chemical Cholorform.

Here are the posts:

Investigators said Casey then forged a check using Amy. H identification on July 10 at the Target on North Goldenrod Road. That check was in the amount of $137.77
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2...w_charges.html


Yes but as stated above by Sundance: Post 9
"Checks 143 and 144 had CaseyA's name and signature on them and a Florida DL was captured on the back of the checks, which belongs to CaseyA. Along with the checks, receipts, video tape and photos, sworn statements by the cashiers who conducted these transactions were also attached to the report."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70263

Post 63
For all those who want to know WHY Target cashed a check with someone else's name on it: the police report clearly states "These checks have Anthony's name and what appear to be her signatures on them."
Checks are easily washed (unless they have certain security features) and can be reprinted with another name. The magnetic print at the bottom of the check is unaffected by the washing procedure.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=70263&page=3
  #192  
Old 10-03-2008, 02:54 PM
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I dunno how you do it, Shadow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow of my mind View Post
I picked this up from posts on this site. I also remembering hearing this on some newsshow but I have no idea now which one or who. Seems to me it one of the Florida channels that was doing live broadcast during the day that you could watch streaming.

There is indication if the the one newsreport is correct that Casey had some form of ID in Amy H.'s name. Then the post on WS made mention of the fact that Casey name was on the checks along with her signature.

My question came about because I was wondering how one would go about changing a name on a check. > to the chemical Cholorform.

Here are the posts:

Investigators said Casey then forged a check using Amy. H identification on July 10 at the Target on North Goldenrod Road. That check was in the amount of $137.77
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2...w_charges.html


Yes but as stated above by Sundance: Post 9
"Checks 143 and 144 had CaseyA's name and signature on them and a Florida DL was captured on the back of the checks, which belongs to CaseyA. Along with the checks, receipts, video tape and photos, sworn statements by the cashiers who conducted these transactions were also attached to the report."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70263

Post 63
For all those who want to know WHY Target cashed a check with someone else's name on it: the police report clearly states "These checks have Anthony's name and what appear to be her signatures on them."
Checks are easily washed (unless they have certain security features) and can be reprinted with another name. The magnetic print at the bottom of the check is unaffected by the washing procedure.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=70263&page=3
...are there more than 24hrs in your day? You're clearly using every single one of them. I hope you are getting some rest!

Thank you for organizing the info in this post. I'm off to read up a bit on washing checks now...
  #193  
Old 10-04-2008, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
I am very well informed about both diseases, but I am also familiar with persons who use those diagnosis to cover drug addictions. I see it often.

Sociopath - The medical name of this disease is antisocial personality disorder and it is described in section 301.7 on page 706 in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV of the American Psychiatric Association. It turns out that antisocial personality disorder, or APD for short, is often misdiagnosed because the underlying cause is drug addiction. Because of the manipulative ability of a drug addict, they can often "fake" APD.

We have 7 senses. You know about about the first 5. The 6th is intuition and the 7th is conscience. A person with APD is a person completely lacking the 7th sense. Like some people are born blind, some persons are born without a conscience, although at first sight it is not obvious.

Like color blindness, APD is a genetic disease. Comparing monozygotic with dizygotic twins, scientists researching the Texas Adoption Project have estimated that APD is 64% inherited, the rest being acquired. Worse than many color blind people not being aware of their disease, the sociopaths cannot be aware of their disease because they do not have the conscience that is necessary to detect a conscience.

Manic Depression (bi-polar disorder) is a mental illness. It is rare when treated for a person to steal who is MD. The problem with many MD's is they won't take their medicine regularly.

There are some who believe in the psychological community that all addict/alcoholics are MD. My experience is if they are not when they start using drugs they are in their addiction.

Many MD use their "disease" to cover their addictions. That is one of the most common problems in dual diagnosis.
It seems that thanks to Dr. Martha Stout's book, The sociopath next door, you know the section in which the criteria for APD is found within the DSM IV. However, you failed to go past what was written on the books review page. (link to review page that you quoted in your post- http://www.communities.hp.com/online...PPost4171.aspx)

It has NOT been found that Anti-social personality disorder is genetic. This is something that has been debated by professionals as far back as Psychopath/sociopathy were first recognized. ..Nature/Nurture.. There have been many studies and some of them show that their may be a genetic predisposition but other factors have a hand as well. The study you quoted is just one and many have different findings.

As for the rest of the information you quoted above.. Most of that is wrong as well. A Psychopath does not need to "fake" anything about how sick and callus they are. The only thing they fake is being normal... and they are very capable of knowing how they think feel and act is not how others do it. Furthur, the underlying cause of APD is not drug addiction. However it is found that many criminals and drug addicts do have APD.

some links- http://personalitydisorders.suite101...of_psychopathy http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/di...tisocialpd.htm
http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/

And as far as the information you gave on Bipolar? I don't know where you got that information- (I must admit, I was a little surprised & frustrated after I saw the literal quotes you took from a review page about a book written about APD so..) I didn't even bother to do a search to have links to back up anything I planned on saying about Bipolar. So I will just offer what I know as fact about Bipolar disorder as it has to do with your post that I responded to yesterday.

Among the many things people with Bipolar will do while Manic is steal. Yup... some of us steal... and it's pretty common. I did. and I did it for the rush, the same rush I got when I drove at 100 MPH, the same rush I got when I had sex with men I hardly knew... things like that. Ohh, and we don't use drugs and alcohol to cover up anything other then how *****ty we feel inside. We become addicts because we self medicate in order to keep living when all we want to do is die.

Your post above is one of the many reasons I continue to live with stigma attatched to the illness I fight against every day. I hope somday that stigma will be gone but that cannot happen until people are better informed.

Last edited by OneLostGrl; 10-04-2008 at 12:59 PM.
  #194  
Old 10-04-2008, 03:48 AM
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ok I'm totally lost and confused... First the DSM-IV does not contain accurate information? When did that happen? And second KC removed Amy's name from the checks and added her own?? I'd realized she signed her own name and thought she'd used her own ID, but she actually altered the information printed on the check??
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  #195  
Old 10-04-2008, 04:49 AM
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ok I'm totally lost and confused... First the DSM-IV does not contain accurate information? When did that happen? And second KC removed Amy's name from the checks and added her own?? I'd realized she signed her own name and thought she'd used her own ID, but she actually altered the information printed on the check??
Of course the DSM IV contains accurate information. The post I was refering to referenced the page number and section under which Anti-social personality disorder can be found. However the poster did not include diagnostic critera or information from the DSM. Rather, quoted an online review of a book called "The sociopath next door" written by Dr. Martha Stout.
  #196  
Old 10-04-2008, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Salem View Post
I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

Salem
I am jumping in here without reading all of the posts so forgive me if this has already been said.

Chloroform fumes can be created by mixing bleach with an antibacterial soap/detergent. Back when this was first being discussed I did a search on harmful reactions of cleaning agents to see if it could possibly be an answer to the cholorform presense.

To me, it is a strong possibility that CA could have been trying to clean the trunk to get rid of the smell/stain. It also would be the answer to why the maggots/flies were not affected since it happened afterwards. It may also be an answer to the search that was done on the computer. If the reaction was noticable to whoever tried to clean the trunk they may have looked up the reaction of mixing the cleaning agents and chloroform showed up in the ANSWER to this research.

I once mixed bleach and ammonia together and it like to have knocked me out. I looked up what the reaction was and found out it was harmful and to never, ever do it again.

Just throwing out a possibility.
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  #197  
Old 10-04-2008, 11:11 AM
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Drugging of child

If anyone has doubts that someone would actually drug a child, they should read the link in this article. The two women that were raising this child drugged this child while the were looking at a time share property in Kissimmee, near Orlando. Thank goodness the child awoke and went and found help or he could have ended up like Caylee.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...39181169.shtml
  #198  
Old 10-04-2008, 01:02 PM
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If anyone has doubts that someone would actually drug a child, they should read the link in this article. The two women that were raising this child drugged this child while the were looking at a time share property in Kissimmee, near Orlando. Thank goodness the child awoke and went and found help or he could have ended up like Caylee.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...39181169.shtml
OMG.. that story just made me cry.
  #199  
Old 10-04-2008, 02:17 PM
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Sorry if this is already posted.
It was suggest on another site that the chloroform detected by the body farm was from CSI mini-kits which contains chloroform and is used to try to extract the fluid stain from the trunk. And on the computer forensic no mention of chloroform searches.
  #200  
Old 10-04-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fresca View Post
Sorry if this is already posted.
It was suggest on another site that the chloroform detected by the body farm was from CSI mini-kits which contains chloroform and is used to try to extract the fluid stain from the trunk. And on the computer forensic no mention of chloroform searches.
Hi Fresca...I might have been able to buy that if there had not been searches on her computer about Chloroform. That tells me that it wasnt anything that CSI did. I am anxious to see the date of her internet search and in what context she was using to do the search.
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