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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #676  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
Thanks for the help w/ the "duplicate" info, and other thoughts added lately.

May sound a bit ridiculous...but, given all the other twists and turns in this case...

IF

1) Real ZG visited Sawgrass in April, hence, her data was entered in the database...guest card tossed
2) Harry actually made a one-week error on that Sawgrass guest card, and,
3) Casey used an ID to impersonate ZG to visit

on Tuesday, 6/10, (the day of her appearance for her ticket) instead of Tuesday, 6/17.

Then, the following Facebook msg to Amy would make alot more sense...

Sent 6/4: "i canít wait for us to become roomies in another week! seriouslyÖby the end of next week, it will be just us girls. i canít believe it!"

...On 6/4..."...by the end of next week..." would have been 6/14 (Saturday).

....thinking pretty hard that ole Harry may've goofed it...which would make ALOT of things fall into place.

Having an apartment as ZG sure woulda made it hard for C&G to find Casey. Casey was preparing to 'drop off the face of the earth' and the whole thing with Tony wasn't gel'd yet. After 6/10 Casey had essentially dropped off the face of the earth as far as Amy was concerned. The break-up with Ricardo screwed up her place to stay while she worked out a new place to live. Don't ask me how she planned to pay for an apartment...skimming money from Fusian shot girls maybe...paying in cash...living as ZG ...Hmmmm

hmmmm.... is right. makes a lot of sense to me. i still think ZFG was an alias KC was used to using, even pre-murder.

what about all these news reports way back in the beginning that said Casey was 'dressing up as' or 'pretending to be' the nanny. lots of us shared a good laugh about that one- picturing KC flouncing around town in some ridiculous wig and sunglasses- and cast it off as typical innacurate news reporting. but what if there is actually some truth to that? does the media have some sort of tidbit that we've overlooked or aren't aware of? do they have some information or inference from Sawgrass that would point to KC showing up as Zenaida? Could the initial reports that KC pretended to be Zenaida be more than incorrect reporting? I'm really starting to wonder if that could be the case...
  #677  
Old 01-22-2009, 06:54 PM
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hmmmm.... is right. makes a lot of sense to me. i still think ZFG was an alias KC was used to using, even pre-murder.

what about all these news reports way back in the beginning that said Casey was 'dressing up as' or 'pretending to be' the nanny. lots of us shared a good laugh about that one- picturing KC flouncing around town in some ridiculous wig and sunglasses- and cast it off as typical innacurate news reporting. but what if there is actually some truth to that? does the media have some sort of tidbit that we've overlooked or aren't aware of? do they have some information or inference from Sawgrass that would point to KC showing up as Zenaida? Could the initial reports that KC pretended to be Zenaida be more than incorrect reporting? I'm really starting to wonder if that could be the case...
interesting! Since I live in the heartland, I never heard anything about wigs. But I have to tell you, I've thought about that before. That might explain why HG, the Sawgrass leasing consultant, said he was shown about 12 photos, said he thought he recognized one, but was then told they were all the same person.
IF KC had any wigs, they may have been hidden somewhere at GA & CA's. I always thought if KC had 1200 pictures of herself on the computer, surely she would have been trying to profit from them. Wigs would explain how she protected her identity. Hhmmm... now I'm confessing all my thoughts....
I'm still searching other threads before I share some other thoughts. I've also been trying to compare theories on this thread to the Sacred Monkey's theory.

Yes, I'm a newbie, but I'm already hooked! I used to read a lot of Ann Rule, and I watch a lot of TRU TV. Too bad I didn't find this site sooner.
  #678  
Old 01-22-2009, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by april_showers View Post
hmmmm.... is right. makes a lot of sense to me. i still think ZFG was an alias KC was used to using, even pre-murder.

what about all these news reports way back in the beginning that said Casey was 'dressing up as' or 'pretending to be' the nanny. lots of us shared a good laugh about that one- picturing KC flouncing around town in some ridiculous wig and sunglasses- and cast it off as typical innacurate news reporting. but what if there is actually some truth to that? does the media have some sort of tidbit that we've overlooked or aren't aware of? do they have some information or inference from Sawgrass that would point to KC showing up as Zenaida? Could the initial reports that KC pretended to be Zenaida be more than incorrect reporting? I'm really starting to wonder if that could be the case...
I never thought of that. That could very well be the case. Hmmm... something to think about!
  #679  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG View Post
Here are the three signatures:

KC from her statement to detectives:


Zenaida #1 from her statement to detectives:


Zenaida #2 from her traffic violation disposition:
Here's another one
  #680  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:24 PM
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Blink's theory

(Brought over from the July 15 thread. Also allows me to pad my stats without much effort)

Blink posted a theory on Frightened Simians that KC may have used the Zenaida Gonzalez name as an alias during a routine traffic stop on May 24, and was then put into the position of paying off the resulting fine if she hoped to keep the alias alive.

Not all the pieces hung together completely but I liked many parts of what was posted because it supported a hunch I have had that KC and ZFG were one and the same.

Problem was, I could not get the July 15 pings to quite line up with Blink's theory. The main reason was that Blink had KC cashing a forged check at BoA on Orange Ave and then walking across and up the street to the county clerk's office to pay a fine, then walking back to the car and driving south to make an appointment at Cast Iron Tattoos.

I have coached track and cross country for years. I live by the stopwatch - my practices are governed by it. While in theory the above scenario could work in a 15-20 minute time slot, in practice I thought it highly unlikely. Too many things would have to go just right for it to work.

On top of that, when I looked at the pings, it appeared KC stopped somewhere in the Curry Ford Rd. area between S. Semoran and S. Conway, for about 15 minutes. In my original timeline for this date a couple months ago I assumed KC had really bad luck and got stuck in traffic and at lights. On top of that I assumed that she was heading to the airport and then for some reason had to turn around and head back to Ric and Amy's for some reason.

It was convoluted, but worked. However, I hate convoluted. Simplest is almost always better. Especially when dealing with KC.

Blink's theory provided an out for me, except that Orange Ave. address for BoA. Was it valid? Well, it came from the fraud investigation report, listing BoA as a victim (they incured a loss in the transaction). Blink took this to be the address where the check was cashed. But upon further review, could it be the address of BoA's investigation unit?

Along comes i.b.nora () who points me to the a document on CFnews13 with much more information, including a S. Conway address for BoA and a 1:24 PM time stamp. That plugged my hole for the ~15 minute stop near S. Semoran. It also freed up time for a stop at the clerk's office.

In fact, a stop at the county clerk's office or Ric / Amy's is required to make the time lag between the BoA check fraud and the visit to Cast Iron to make sense. If KC did not make such a stop, pings G and H probably would not exist and the long time lag would be hard to explain. It is clear she stopped somewhere...but where?

Here is a Google Earth view of the area with a proposed route for KC from AL to BoA, then BoA to the county clerk. The red markers are cell tower locations and not KC positions. Times associated with the towers are times that the tower ping KC's phone. I checked the cell IDs of all towers at the times mentioned and the route (in green) conforms nicely to the orientation parameters.

IMHO, KC had 15 minutes - 20 tops - to make a stop at the clerk's office to pay a fine. Based on my recent experience at the CT DMV for a driver's license renewal, this is very doable.

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  #681  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:35 PM
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Things that Make You Go Hmmmmm

I don't recall ever seeing a reference to this posted before. If it has been, forgive me!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0152...tu#reader-link

Now enter the search phrase "Zanny the Nanny," and this will come up:


"1-4 of 4 pages with references to Zanny the Nanny:"

1. on Page 34:
"... Zanny the Nanny ZANNY DUGGAN had parked a block away and begun to stroll toward Dakota Street on ..."
2. on Page 178:
"... This is a tall order for you both, considering your age. "But who would help?" Zanny the Nanny. ..."
3. on Page 187:
"... Kathryn Ladw Well, he's very cute. Zanny should look at him more. She seems a little out of it. I guess this is part of being a nanny. ..."
4. on Page 229:
"... too, but Putnam is the greatest husband in the world and does half the cooking. Thank goodness for Zanny the Nanny. Now the kids can travel with their ..."
  #682  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG View Post
(Brought over from the July 15 thread. Also allows me to pad my stats without much effort)

Blink posted a theory on Frightened Simians that KC may have used the Zenaida Gonzalez name as an alias during a routine traffic stop on May 24, and was then put into the position of paying off the resulting fine if she hoped to keep the alias alive.

Not all the pieces hung together completely but I liked many parts of what was posted because it supported a hunch I have had that KC and ZFG were one and the same.

Problem was, I could not get the July 15 pings to quite line up with Blink's theory. The main reason was that Blink had KC cashing a forged check at BoA on Orange Ave and then walking across and up the street to the county clerk's office to pay a fine, then walking back to the car and driving south to make an appointment at Cast Iron Tattoos.

I have coached track and cross country for years. I live by the stopwatch - my practices are governed by it. While in theory the above scenario could work in a 15-20 minute time slot, in practice I thought it highly unlikely. Too many things would have to go just right for it to work.

On top of that, when I looked at the pings, it appeared KC stopped somewhere in the Curry Ford Rd. area between S. Semoran and S. Conway, for about 15 minutes. In my original timeline for this date a couple months ago I assumed KC had really bad luck and got stuck in traffic and at lights. On top of that I assumed that she was heading to the airport and then for some reason had to turn around and head back to Ric and Amy's for some reason.

It was convoluted, but worked. However, I hate convoluted. Simplest is almost always better. Especially when dealing with KC.

Blink's theory provided an out for me, except that Orange Ave. address for BoA. Was it valid? Well, it came from the fraud investigation report, listing BoA as a victim (they incured a loss in the transaction). Blink took this to be the address where the check was cashed. But upon further review, could it be the address of BoA's investigation unit?

Along comes i.b.nora () who points me to the a document on CFnews13 with much more information, including a S. Conway address for BoA and a 1:24 PM time stamp. That plugged my hole for the ~15 minute stop near S. Semoran. It also freed up time for a stop at the clerk's office.

In fact, a stop at the county clerk's office or Ric / Amy's is required to make the time lag between the BoA check fraud and the visit to Cast Iron to make sense. If KC did not make such a stop, pings G and H probably would not exist and the long time lag would be hard to explain. It is clear she stopped somewhere...but where?

Here is a Google Earth view of the area with a proposed route for KC from AL to BoA, then BoA to the county clerk. The red markers are cell tower locations and not KC positions. Times associated with the towers are times that the tower ping KC's phone. I checked the cell IDs of all towers at the times mentioned and the route (in green) conforms nicely to the orientation parameters.

IMHO, KC had 15 minutes - 20 tops - to make a stop at the clerk's office to pay a fine. Based on my recent experience at the CT DMV for a driver's license renewal, this is very doable.

JWG- repectfully, what is frightened simians- is there a link?

So I'm clear, you are verifying Blink's theory in concept, but maybe changing bank locals? Am I "off" that I have been told there is a 3mi radius of margin for error on a ping? Helpl
  #683  
Old 01-23-2009, 07:32 AM
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Blink's theory - with time line

Blink posted a theory on Frightened Simians that KC may have used the Zenaida Gonzalez name as an alias during a routine traffic stop on May 24, and was then put into the position of paying off the resulting fine if she hoped to keep the alias alive.

Not all the pieces hung together completely but I liked many parts of what was posted because it supported a hunch I have had that KC and ZFG were one and the same.

Problem was, I could not get the July 15 pings to quite line up with Blink's theory. The main reason was that Blink had KC cashing a forged check at BoA on Orange Ave and then walking across and up the street to the county clerk's office to pay a fine, then walking back to the car and driving south to make an appointment at Cast Iron Tattoos.

I have coached track and cross country for years. I live by the stopwatch - my practices are governed by it. While in theory the above scenario could work in a 15-20 minute time slot, in practice I thought it highly unlikely. Too many things would have to go just right for it to work.

On top of that, when I looked at the pings, it appeared KC stopped somewhere in the Curry Ford Rd. area between S. Semoran and S. Conway, for about 15 minutes. In my original timeline for this date a couple months ago I assumed KC had really bad luck and got stuck in traffic and at lights. On top of that I assumed that she was heading to the airport and then for some reason had to turn around and head back to Ric and Amy's for some reason.

It was convoluted, but worked. However, I hate convoluted. Simplest is almost always better. Especially when dealing with KC.

Blink's theory provided an out for me, except that Orange Ave. address for BoA. Was it valid? Well, it came from the fraud investigation report, listing BoA as a victim (they incured a loss in the transaction). Blink took this to be the address where the check was cashed. But upon further review, could it be the address of BoA's investigation unit?

Along comes i.b.nora () who points me to the a document on CFnews13 with much more information, including a S. Conway address for BoA and a 1:24 PM time stamp. That plugged my hole for the ~15 minute stop near S. Semoran. It also freed up time for a stop at the clerk's office.

In fact, a stop at the county clerk's office or Ric / Amy's is required to make the time lag between the BoA check fraud and the visit to Cast Iron to make sense. If KC did not make such a stop, pings G and H probably would not exist and the long time lag would be hard to explain. It is clear she stopped somewhere...but where?

Here is a Google Earth view of the area with a proposed route for KC from AL to BoA, then BoA to the county clerk. The red markers are cell tower locations and not KC positions. Times associated with the towers are times that the tower ping KC's phone. I checked the cell IDs of all towers at the times mentioned and the route (in green) conforms nicely to the orientation parameters.

IMHO, KC had 15 minutes - 20 tops - to make a stop at the clerk's office to pay a fine. Based on my recent experience at the CT DMV for a driver's license renewal, this is very doable.



ETA: I was tired when I posted this and forgot to add the time table:

1:05 to 1:20 PM - Travel from AL to BoA on S. Conway in AH's car. Turns right out of apartment complex onto University and heads east, then pulls U-turn in order to get into westbound lanes. Then south on Semoran to eithe Lake Margaret Dr. (shown on route above) or E. Michigan St. (probably the route - very easy access to BoA parking) or Curry Ford. All three fit the pings. I let Google choose the route shown above but if I were her I would have used E. Michigan to cut across.

1:20 to 1:25 PM - At BoA. Cashes forged check at 1:24 PM for $250.

1:25 to 1:35 PM - Travel to traffic clerk's office per Blink's theory. North on S. Conway, then west on 408, exiting at E. South St. / Rosalind Ave. Can't tell from current version of Google Earth maps if there is a toll along the way. Current images say no but they show a lot of construction. Not sure if KC would avoid the toll road or not, but if she did it would add travel time. Location / timing of pings seem to indicate she took the toll road. Rosalind becomes Magnolia. Parking in various areas in vicinity...Google shows her looping around to front but she could have stopped anywhere arount there.

1:35 to 1:50 PM - At clerk's office to pay $50 of "ZG" fine per Blink's theory. IMHO she needs to get back to her car by 1:50 or so and head south to Cast Iron Tattoos, where she stops to make an appointment. There is a ping from a tower south of Cast Iron (not shown above) at 1:54:19 PM which I believe would not occur from the clerk's office, hence my belief she had to be on the road.

So the question - is the clerk's office that fast / efficient that she could pay the $50 in 15 minutes? Includes time to walk to / from car, take a number (?), meet with a clerk, look up file...etc.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Drivenon View Post
So I'm clear, you are verifying Blink's theory in concept, but maybe changing bank locals? Am I "off" that I have been told there is a 3mi radius of margin for error on a ping? Helpl
Yes, verifying it in concept, recognizing things would have to go smoothly for it to work - hitting a lot of green lights, fast transaction at clerk's office, etc.

I did not change the Bank locals. There are two BoA addresses in the police material. One is where the crime was committed, and the other is where the BoA investigator is located who worked with police.

Initial assumption was that the crime was committed at the investigator's office, which is very close to the clerk's office. However, that left precious little time for a check cashing and payment to take place, plus walking between facilities.

i.b.nora pointed me to the documents showing where the actual crime was committed. This gave extra time at the clerk's office, making a payment more viable. It also nicely plugged what appeared to be a stop along the way around 1:25 - which is in fact what happened!

The phone logs contain codes indicating the general direction of the call from the tower, but not the distance. However, in this part of Orlando none of them have a range much beyond a mile to a mile and a half - there are so many of them. With times, tower locations, general direction of pings, and some common sense regarding how one might travel from point A to point B, you can get a pretty good sense of what is going on.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:42 AM
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Yes, verifying it in concept, recognizing things would have to go smoothly for it to work - hitting a lot of green lights, fast transaction at clerk's office, etc.

I did not change the Bank locals. There are two BoA addresses in the police material. One is where the crime was committed, and the other is where the BoA investigator is located who worked with police.

Initial assumption was that the crime was committed at the investigator's office, which is very close to the clerk's office. However, that left precious little time for a check cashing and payment to take place, plus walking between facilities.

i.b.nora pointed me to the documents showing where the actual crime was committed. This gave extra time at the clerk's office, making a payment more viable. It also nicely plugged what appeared to be a stop along the way around 1:25 - which is in fact what happened!

The phone logs contain codes indicating the general direction of the call from the tower, but not the distance. However, in this part of Orlando none of them have a range much beyond a mile to a mile and a half - there are so many of them. With times, tower locations, general direction of pings, and some common sense regarding how one might travel from point A to point B, you can get a pretty good sense of what is going on.
Wow, alot of data. So Blink's bank location address was correct and is supported by the pings and Jamie R. texts? Did anyone notice that nobody is pulling the file on the ZG ticket, should we assume it truly is unavailable?
  #686  
Old 01-23-2009, 10:58 AM
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Wow, alot of data. So Blink's bank location address was correct and is supported by the pings and Jamie R. texts? Did anyone notice that nobody is pulling the file on the ZG ticket, should we assume it truly is unavailable?
No, Blink had the wrong BoA branch, and because of that I could not quite get the pings to work. Now that we do have the right branch the pings DO work.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:59 AM
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Anything from the statements of the Sawgrass staff in the released docs that indicates the time of day ZG visited Sawgrass?

DavidK: Office hours @ Sawgrass?
  #688  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:02 PM
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No, Blink had the wrong BoA branch, and because of that I could not quite get the pings to work. Now that we do have the right branch the pings DO work.
Right Bank, wrong Branch, lol, got it, the S. Conway not the Orange.
You guys did a great job supporting that theory. Does anyone think that this might have gotten back to the A's, and LE confirmed it, and thus GA breakdown with this knowledge?
  #689  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:31 PM
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Love,love,love this thread! You sleuths here are amazing. Thanks for all the work you put into it.
  #690  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:40 PM
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Anything from the statements of the Sawgrass staff in the released docs that indicates the time of day ZG visited Sawgrass?

DavidK: Office hours @ Sawgrass?
Bond:

Here's what I've checked so far:

Amanda M. sworn statement 7/22
Harry G. sworn statement 8/6
Zenaida G. sworn statement 7/16
Various OSCO reports re: information and interviews at Sawgrass
Rechecked visitation card - no time listed
Called Sawgrass - Hours are M-F 9 am to 6 pm

That's it so far.
  #691  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:42 PM
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IF this all happened in the same vehicle at the same time why are there two different police officers involved? I believe the same one would have written the ticket for both people in the car.

Read the citations there are two officers names involved. It could be possible that casey used Amy's car a second time that day and got a violation but I do not believe they both got a ticket during the same traffic stop from two seperate officers.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:49 PM
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Also it would take a good 15 minutes to park and run into the court house through the security check point and up the elevator alone add another 15 minutes to return to the car I seriously doubt 15 minutes to park over a block away in and out would work.

This office is upstairs in the court house and you must take an elevator a couple flights 4 to be exact and back down, you must also go through security and all bagage is checked. I have been there I figure 10 minutes in alone for a well paced walker from the parking garage or a parking space on Orange avenue maybe. MAYBE!

Clerk of the Court
Downtown Location

425 N. Orange Avenue, Suite 410
Orlando, FL 32801
407-836-2000
Hours of operation:
Monday - Friday: 7:30 am to 5:00 pm
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:29 PM
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Awesome job, JWG!!
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:47 PM
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IF this all happened in the same vehicle at the same time why are there two different police officers involved? I believe the same one would have written the ticket for both people in the car.

Read the citations there are two officers names involved. It could be possible that casey used Amy's car a second time that day and got a violation but I do not believe they both got a ticket during the same traffic stop from two seperate officers.
it does seem very odd. unless they were together and pulled over by two officers in one car (or another officer showed up on backup). Officers may have split the paperwork just because it's easier that way.

have we verified what car they were in?

here's a thought: Did Annie have access to vehicles at Don Reid Ford (either legally or knew how to get keys?). Perhaps they were out joyriding for fun in a car from the dealership? May explain why Casey gave a fake name. Annie, of course, couldn't because the vehicle was tied directly to her and her job. Maybe that's why Casey HAD to be sure to pay - if not Annie could have gotten in big trouble with her job?? I still wonder if this whole traffic incident was the catalyst for the huge 'falling out' reported between annie and KC.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:59 PM
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FWIW, May 24, 2008 was a Saturday night so maybe officers do double up while patroling and pulling people over in the evening....possible dui's, etc.

I can see how two officers gave two different tickets.

I wish we could the actual reports to see time the tickets were given and where -- they usually list that on the tickets!! Then we would know for sure.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:19 PM
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I think Caylee's death was premed, so imagine my excitement when I first began reading this theory.
However, IMO, it isn't holding up, but this could be because of where I am from (TX) and how they do things here.
I haven't read every single post, so, does anyone have the info on the make and model of the car?
Also, it seems to me the general gist of this idea is Casey gets pulled over. She claims to be ZG. She either says she has no license, misplaced her license, or gives an invalid license with ZG name on it. In TX, LE takes your license back to patrol car to run it for wants and warrants. Making the assumption they do the same in FL, the # would have at least had to match the name. Yet, she gets a ticket for invalid license, so what is wrong with it? Is it expired? Why would anyone fake an ID and have it be expired? Not buying that. Address different, you could say you moved, and this is your new/old address. None of this adds up.
So that takes me to she didn't provide a license. She tells them her name, DOB, etc. Seems to me LE would call this in, to see if it matches up, but let's just say they don't, or she says she's from another county, etc., and they take her at her word, write a ticket, and that's that.
What reason would there be for Casey to pay the ticket? She hasn't shown much in the way of understanding consequences, so even if she was driving some one else's car, it's not like LE is going to chase this down. If it were to ever come up, the odds are pretty strong from past behavior she would just lie. "Oh, yeah, the day I borrowed your car, my nanny needed to go to the store, so I let her borrow it real quick. She never told me she got pulled over."
Her paying any amount on a ticket under these circumstances, even with stolen money, makes no sense to me.
Lanie
  #697  
Old 01-23-2009, 02:46 PM
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kcaddict kcaddict is offline
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Ok I am trying to catch up here. Forgive me if this has already been addressed.

1. If I was using a fake ID and got a ticket....I would not pay it...so why would KC pay the ticket? This makes no sense to me....

2. On NG the real ZG did say she looked at an apt in Sawgrass. Did anyone else see that interview?
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:05 PM
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kcaddict kcaddict is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It's Not the Nanny View Post
FWIW, May 24, 2008 was a Saturday night so maybe officers do double up while patroling and pulling people over in the evening....possible dui's, etc.

I can see how two officers gave two different tickets.

I wish we could the actual reports to see time the tickets were given and where -- they usually list that on the tickets!! Then we would know for sure.
I am going to double check on this. In Hillsborough County (fl) we can look up traffic citations by name and it does show time and location. I would think there may be another location to look it up in Orange county
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:50 PM
maza maza is offline
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just wanting to say thanks for this thread! i had never considered that ZFG and Casey could be one in the same!

(even if the facts end up not supporting that, i am still very impressed at the work that has been done on this thread.)

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Old 01-23-2009, 04:54 PM
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It's Not the Nanny It's Not the Nanny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcaddict View Post
I am going to double check on this. In Hillsborough County (fl) we can look up traffic citations by name and it does show time and location. I would think there may be another location to look it up in Orange county
Cool - let us know what you find out.


I'm fairly certain that the location the ticket was given and time of day is always on the ticket....as well as a signature.
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