2008.09.22 Tim Miller Coming Back & Leonard Padilla Talks RE: Cindy/Casey Fight!

[halleyscomet]

Just a theory here. If I can't post it, can someone let me know and I'll delete it?

Suppose the fight between CA and KC got physical and one of them fell on Caylee and she got hurt. Then KC scooped her up and left the house and CA and GA didn't know if she was okay or not. Then KC did do something to Caylee and made it appear to CA that CA was responsible and that KC was covering for CA. She could have told her that Caylee was severely injured and she gave her to someone so CA could not get at her. Then claimed that Caylee died and whoever KC gave her to disposed of the body and KC doesn't know where the person put her.

[peace9274]

The person I think who knows more than anyone is Cindy's therapist.
Once those records are subpoena'd, more will be revealed.

I think Cindy was getting advice from the therapist, telling her - Cindy - to take actions that she normally wouldn't have done.... i.e. make Casey responsible for stealing, lying, neglecting her child. Kick her out of the house. Press charges for stealing Cindy's parent's money. Obtain custody of Caylee.

When Cindy told KC what her plans were, KC went berserk and threatened to take Caylee and never let Cindy see her granddaughter again.

Anger--->Threats---> Verbal abuse --->Physical Altercation

Cindy may have continued to see the therapist after Caylee and Casey left. From her post at her Myspace July 3rd, Cindy was obviously very distraught. The therapist is prolly the one that first called Casey a sociopath and then Cindy repeated it to Casey's friend(s).

The therapist prolly advised Cindy to call 911 and have Casey arrested and when she did, felt so uncomfortable and guilty for doing so, as she had never made Casey be responsible for her actions in the past. (Remember what the teacher said about Cindy showing up at school, etc.)

Cindy then immediately went back to her own way of thinking and doing things, re Casey's behavior, lies, threats, etc..... without the therapist's help/advice. Thus the drastic change in her demeaner immediately after the 3rd 911 call.

Since there are confidentiality laws, the therapist can not give any info re what he/she knows about the case... unless the records are subpoened.

[peace9274]

One of my theories is that Casey took Caylee and left the house. In a state of rage/passion, Casey harmed-killed Caylee in some way, panicked, and then tried to cover it up... staging a drowning.

My other theory is that Casey wasn't going to let Caylee burden her lifestyle and her relationship w/ TonE.... and when there was noone with whom to leave Caylee, she left her in the trunk where she suffocated. I think she panicked with this theory also and tried to cover-up.

I don't think she purposely left the pizza in the trunk to cover the odor.
Raw meat or milk would've done a better job.

I think the pizza was just a leftover meal of Caylee's.

[SoCalSleuth]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

She called because of the "stolen car" and the money...not Caylee. She was enraged with Casey even more...but we truly don't know what was behind it all. I don't think she meant to say that about the decomp smell. It slipped.

Makes sense. You're granddaughter has been missing a month and you call to have your daughter arrested for stealing a car you lent her? And then, Oh btw, my granddaughter's missing? Obviously she smelled the car before she made that call. Something is so wrong here.

[SoCalSleuth]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Peel

Aaagh. Here I go again. Who thinks, let's see: a little girl is missing, there is a bad smell in the car, let's do smelly laundry from said car, and update/create myspace pages with perfectly organized entries and sentences. La-la-la-la.

updating the my space pages was in the script silly!

[ZooMomology]

I read pages 1-3, and then lost my Internet for a while, can anybody tell me when (like what day exactly) Tim said they would be back?

[Bobby62]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

I think the chloroform was used to try to clean the car (the cleaning fluid that GA mentioned) and when that didn't work...it was left to be stolen at Amscot. Instead it was towed! Hence the reason it was not picked up for 15 days...it was hoped the smell would dissipate. Didn't happen. GA was not surprised by the smell in the car that day.

Hi SS, The cleaning fluid was actually an empty bottle of Arm and hammer laundry detergent. Cleaning fluid sounds cooler and creates more drama so Nancy Grace used that term about 50 times after the story broke. All who watch Nancy think it was some kind of specialty cleaning fluid instead of laundry detergent.

[Bobby62]

Originally Posted by SoCalSleuth

Makes sense. You're granddaughter has been missing a month and you call to have your daughter arrested for stealing a car you lent her? And then, Oh btw, my granddaughter's missing? Obviously she smelled the car before she made that call. Something is so wrong here.

I saw the interview tape a few days ago where Cindy said (awkwardly) that she is a nurse and familiar with the smell of decomp. George knew at the impound lot.

[tekilla]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

You can't forget getting on their myspaces, too. Pretty rational, if ya ask me.

Yes, and that is exactly what I am going to do if Heaven forbid one of my Grandchildren goes missing. I am going to go and get on my space while waiting for the police to arrive. NOT.........

[Bobby62]

Originally Posted by tekilla

Yes, and that is exactly what I am going to do if Heaven forbid one of my Grandchildren goes missing. I am going to go and get on my space while waiting for the police to arrive. NOT.........

It seemed bizarre to me when the news first broke that the first thing the family did was jump on Myspace to search for this baby. I would have collected all Casey's friends names and paid a personal visit. But I also, upon learning of the string of lies to deputies, had the deputies give me some alone time with her before her arrest. I would have known within minutes where my grandchild/neice was. They still have that option now. But the Myspace thing set off alarms for me immediately.

[Fandy]

Originally Posted by peace9274

The person I think who knows more than anyone is Cindy's therapist.
Once those records are subpoena'd, more will be revealed.

I think Cindy was getting advice from the therapist, telling her - Cindy - to take actions that she normally wouldn't have done.... i.e. make Casey responsible for stealing, lying, neglecting her child. Kick her out of the house. Press charges for stealing Cindy's parent's money. Obtain custody of Caylee.

When Cindy told KC what her plans were, KC went berserk and threatened to take Caylee and never let Cindy see her granddaughter again.

Anger--->Threats---> Verbal abuse --->Physical Altercation

Cindy may have continued to see the therapist after Caylee and Casey left. From her post at her Myspace July 3rd, Cindy was obviously very distraught. The therapist is prolly the one that first called Casey a sociopath and then Cindy repeated it to Casey's friend(s).

The therapist prolly advised Cindy to call 911 and have Casey arrested and when she did, felt so uncomfortable and guilty for doing so, as she had never made Casey be responsible for her actions in the past. (Remember what the teacher said about Cindy showing up at school, etc.)

Cindy then immediately went back to her own way of thinking and doing things, re Casey's behavior, lies, threats, etc..... without the therapist's help/advice. Thus the drastic change in her demeaner immediately after the 3rd 911 call.

Since there are confidentiality laws, the therapist can not give any info re what he/she knows about the case... unless the records are subpoened.

ITA, and I think one of the reasons that Cindy defends Casey so aggressively is her own GUILT that she feels responsible (indirectly) for the baby's death. I think she quit her therapist completely and went back to her previous parenting method because of this..Cindy may even blame her therapist. (jmo)

[Chess613]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

Not sure of the date, but Clint said on Greta that when he came back the afternoon of June 15th that Casey was with Tony at the apartment and he thought she stayed the night...altho he did not see her the next morning.

I honestly think that Casey and Cindy (and Cindy's mother) got into the battle royale after they got back from visiting granddad. Casey bolted from the house but left Caylee, because she didn't want to deal with her daughter - and I'm willing to bet Caylee wanted to be with her "mom" Cindy. So she storms out and chills with Lazzaro (I'm assuming that's who we're calling TonE). In the morning, George calls Casey on cell to have her come pick up Caylee before he leaves work, which she does around 12:30pm.

Of course , this is all based on the statements of the Anthony family and we all know how reliable that is..

[tekilla]

Originally Posted by Bobby62

It seemed bizarre to me when the news first broke that the first thing the family did was jump on Myspace to search for this baby. I would have collected all Casey's friends names and paid a personal visit. But I also, upon learning of the string of lies to deputies, had the deputies give me some alone time with her before her arrest. I would have known within minutes where my grandchild/neice was. They still have that option now. But the Myspace thing set off alarms for me immediately.

Maybe it is because I grew up without computers, internet and Myspace. But, I just don't understand going to Myspace first. Your Granddaughter is missing try to find her not go play on the computer. And apparently they are still searching the internet for this little girl and not searching in the real world. Seriously how do they really think they can find this Baby by not ever leaving the house?

[HRCODEPINK]

Originally Posted by zadari

nope sorry cindy wasnt lying or making up that call no way ,.. she was distressed you could hear it in her voice . i agree with this post .. i dont feel the anthonys have any idea what happened to thier granddaughter . and i dont think they think she is dead i have a feeling they really dont feel she is dead . they are going to have to have a body in front of them before they beleive it . some people are that way . you cant have closure without a body for some people ..

I was just saying this to my mother the other day. When I was pregnant last I was REALLY sick. I lost over 30 lbs and went into ketosis and had a hard time staying awake, so when it was nap time, I slept really hard. One afternoon I had put my oldest down and went and took a nap on the couch. When I woke up and went to his crib he was not there! I looked all over and could not find him. At one point I remember busting out the front door and screaming his name and running up and down the block in a panic. When I heard Cindy's phone call the first time...and really every time after that, it takes me back to that day, that moment I gave up on the inside of the house and went out the door in true panic.

I assumed that I slept so hard he had either escaped or someone came in the house and took him. I ran back into the house to call 911-- I know, I know, Novel concept...but even as a WSer, I just wouldn't have felt comfortable holding my own investigation, sorry guys! He had climbed onto the bottom shelf of the changing table and pulled the blankets I was storing there back in on himself and fell asleep. I found him while I was looking for the phone.

I will never forget that panic and just thinking about it now makes my chest tight. I don't know if CA had any involvement after the fact and I kind of think that she is just in serious denial and losing her mind, literally. But I was convinced with the 911 call that she wasn't involved initially. I can't listen to it because it literally brings tears to my eyes still and takes me back to that day in an instant.

[TxLady2]

Originally Posted by zadari

nope sorry cindy wasnt lying or making up that call no way ,.. she was distressed you could hear it in her voice . i agree with this post .. i dont feel the anthonys have any idea what happened to thier granddaughter . and i dont think they think she is dead i have a feeling they really dont feel she is dead . they are going to have to have a body in front of them before they beleive it . some people are that way . you cant have closure without a body for some people ..

ITA. If they had been involved in it, Cindy would not have said what she did on that last 911 call. No way is someone going to volunteer that it smelled like a dead body in the car, if they were involved in getting rid of the body. I don't believe they knew what happened at that point, and they still might not know exactly... just totally in denial. Who could blame them? Even RG won't believe Caylee is dead until he has proof, and he is not the g/parent!
We lost my oldest stepson 15 years ago, when he was barely 16. His mom did not believe it was him in the casket. He had died of asphysiation and his face was swollen... it didn't really look like him. It took a while for her to realize it was him... I felt so bad for her, she couldn't deal with it.

[Torrie]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

For a person who has such a vast amount of love for a child, why was this child left in the care of a person like Casey to begin with?! If my daughter's actions were proving to be less than what Casey's were at that point...there is no way I would have let her be around my grandchild. How unfair of me to protect my grandchild from my irresponsible, lying, thieving daughter. Sorry...but it is the way I see it.

This statement is unfair, IMO. My stepdaughter was in the military, and when she got out, she came home, moved out to a "party house" with friends, ended up pregnant, her friends gave her the boot, and she moved home. She lived with us until the baby was 5 weeks old, at which time she moved in with her sister. Within a week's time, she was staying with new friends. Noone could find her. I finally found her at an apartment, one bedroom, seven people living there, 3 of which were children. Drugs were being used. My grandchild had not been bathed in weeks. I yanked my daughter out of there and back to our home. She lived with us for the next 5 months at which time she got an apartment in the projects. One week to the DAY that she moved out, she was pregnant again. Without going into a ton of detail for lack of space, she's left them alone, they've been neglected, abused, you name it. Children's services has been called 3 times by me, twice by her best friend and several times by other family members. Well guess what....she now has THREE children, and still has custody of every one of them, and is still neglecting them. So, my point is, my heart has been wrenched from my chest, stomped on and crushed, when it comes to these babies, and my hands are TIED. Just because you LOVE your grandchild, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to protect them. And another thing, sometimes, you don't rock the boat with said evil daughter, because then you won't get to see grandchildren at all, and then who will be watching out for them?! You don't know what it's like to be afraid for your grandchildren, and that any day, you just might get that call that one of them is badly injured, shaken, dead. Get the point?

Sorry, I'm not completely sticking up for Cindy, but come on, what was she supposed to do, lock Casey in a room, just so she could keep Caylee there, and safe? The system doesn't work that way, and grandparents have absolutely no rights, whatsoever. I've watched this case with horror, knowing that this could be me. Knowing that the missing/deceased baby could be MY precious granddaughter. Only difference between Cindy and I, is that I would definitely have resorted to physical violence to get the answers out of my daughter.(and I'm not a violent person) And she wouldn't be living in my house. The similarities between my daughter and Casey are down right scary.

[HRCODEPINK]

Originally Posted by Bobby62

It seemed bizarre to me when the news first broke that the first thing the family did was jump on Myspace to search for this baby. I would have collected all Casey's friends names and paid a personal visit. But I also, upon learning of the string of lies to deputies, had the deputies give me some alone time with her before her arrest. I would have known within minutes where my grandchild/neice was. They still have that option now. But the Myspace thing set off alarms for me immediately.

I have never in my life seen a person with so many personal pages on so many different social networking sites. If I knew my daughter spent that much time online and I knew that she lied as much as Casey does and was stonewalliing me on the truth about where my granddaughter was, I wouldn't believe a thing she was saying and would go online to all these sites to try to connect with her friends. Although I have said all along, even as an extremely non violent person, I would have beat the truth out of her.

[softsoul]

Originally Posted by CitizenKim

But then what about the 911 call and the dead body in the darn car? I just can't wrap my head around that. She was losing it! I still don't think the GPs were involved in any coverup at least not before that call...I just can't say what they're up to now aside from total and complete self delusion.

I agree. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I believe if the GP's had been involved from the beginning they would have come up with a better story. Since the friends all say Casey told them at point or another that Caylee was with the GP's then why would they deny seeing her after the 16th....that just makes Casey seem more cold-hearted and guilty.

[TxLady2]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

For a person who has such a vast amount of love for a child, why was this child left in the care of a person like Casey to begin with?! If my daughter's actions were proving to be less than what Casey's were at that point...there is no way I would have let her be around my grandchild. How unfair of me to protect my grandchild from my irresponsible, lying, thieving daughter. Sorry...but it is the way I see it.

Legally, there was not much she could do. Casey was the child's mother. You cannot take a child away from their mother unless you go through the proper channels. Besides, they wanted Casey to take responsibility and I am certain that they didn't dream that she would ever harm the child. Blaming Cindy for what Casey did is wrong, IMO. Casey is an adult, she wasn't 15.

[TxLady2]

Originally Posted by lacey clementine

Could it have been slowing dawning on her during the course of the three calls what was really going on? She was very close to an "AHA!" moment when she let slip about the decomp smell in the car. IMO.

I think when Cindy found Casey at Tony's apt. and realized Caylee was not with her.. she started suspecting something was wrong. Then the more she talked to Casey, and couldn't get her to say where Caylee was, she just lost it. I don't think for one minute that Cindy or George had anything to do with what happened to Caylee... or disposing of her body. Their love for that child is so obvious. I don't know if they still believe the kidnapping story or if they know deep down that she is gone... but they can't admit it publicly because that would hurt Casey's defense when it goes to trial. Everything they've said or done since Casey was first arrested has been towards her defense, and I am sure that Baez and now Nejame tells them to support Casey, no matter what. She is their daughter and they know they have lost Caylee, so they are terrified of losing her too. JMO.

[ZooMomology]

Originally Posted by TxLady2

Legally, there was not much she could do. Casey was the child's mother. You cannot take a child away from their mother unless you go through the proper channels. Besides, they wanted Casey to take responsibility and I am certain that they didn't dream that she would ever harm the child. Blaming Cindy for what Casey did is wrong, IMO. Casey is an adult, she wasn't 15.

Wow, I actually agree with you.

Now, they should continue that line of thought to now, and let her dig herself out of her OWN mess.

[ZooMomology]

Originally Posted by TxLady2

I think when Cindy found Casey at Tony's apt. and realized Caylee was not with her.. she started suspecting something was wrong. Then the more she talked to Casey, and couldn't get her to say where Caylee was, she just lost it. I don't think for one minute that Cindy or George had anything to do with what happened to Caylee... or disposing of her body. Their love for that child is so obvious. I don't know if they still believe the kidnapping story or if they know deep down that she is gone... but they can't admit it publicly because that would hurt Casey's defense when it goes to trial. Everything they've said or done since Casey was first arrested has been towards her defense, and I am sure that Baez and now Nejame tells them to support Casey, no matter what. She is their daughter and they know they have lost Caylee, so they are terrified of losing her too. JMO.

There is not one person on this earth that could tell me to support my child who is alleged to have murdered my grand-baby. Yes, I would love said child, but support, NO!!!

I would tell NeJames and Baez to kiss my HINEY.

[TxLady2]

Originally Posted by RR0004

And the As didn't contact friends to find out where they were for the month IMO(according to Dante, he was never contacted...but the As knew to call him after Casey was found?).

They might not have known ALL of Casey's friends. And remember, Cindy said they did talk to her almost daily... they had no reason to suspect anything was amiss, so Cindy says, until they were notified that the car had been towed. Also... weren't they away somewhere for a couple weeks in that time?

[Starr58]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching

I have never thought Caylee left that house alive, personally. I think she was first buried in the backyard then moved on the 24th.

IMO...ditto

[ZooMomology]

And I am sorry, but say she is guilty of murder, do they want a murderer in their house? I wouldn't, even if it was my daughter. Do you think The Dahmer's wanted Jeffrey to come home to live with them knowing what he is capable of? He murdered strangers too, not their grandbabies.