Forensics Reports Are In #2

[diablo]

Originally Posted by ziggy

Just my personal opinion but I would think it would be vital that jury members actually smell what human decomposition smells like versus, say pizza or a dead squirrel.

You would really KNOW if you've smelled it that it can't be mistaken.

The jurors should be educated to make assertions about who is telling the truth when it comes to that smell.

that would be a very powerful piece of evidence.
send this tip to Yuri !

[future criminologist]

maybe this is a stupid question, but since we know that during that time frame, Casey also drove TL and AH's cars as well, has any forensic testing been done on those vehicles as well?

also, I wonder if they have looked at the bottom of Casey's shoes to see if there's dirt on them and what the origins of that dirt are - sometimes, depending on the makeup of the dirt on the land where a body is buried, they can tell from the perp's shoes where they have been. (I remember something like this being done on an episode of Law & Order).

[Skully]

I managed to lose my post LOL

Regarding the shovel, I didn't think there would be forensic on it. I always thought that Casy used the shovel as leverage to lift that playhouse. CA told Gretta that her and GA had to lift it bc it was so heavy. I think Casy placed Caylee underneath it just until she figured out what to do with her. I don't think she ever buried her, just sort of put the playhouse over top of her. She may have used a shovel in the shed the first time and put it back and on June 18th she found the shed locked. She had to borrrow one. She gave it back, so how did she bury her at the Airport or where ever. I don't think she did, I think she just put her in a wooded area. I hope that is the case as it will be easier to find her.

[Capri]

Originally Posted by Insomnia Momma

For those that missed it on the first thread


This is what I typed out while talking to my cousin who is in his last year of school to be a forensic pathologist.


Ok, he says about the 2.6 days. It appears as if this body was placed in the enclosed space of the trunk directly after death and left there in an unsealed container for 2 to 3 days per the test results. The body then could have remained in the enclosed space but was then placed in a recepticle to carry it, halting the decomp process on the fibers of the carpet in the trunk.
Many hairs were found, ONE with the death band/ The hair withthe death band also showed Chloroform in small traces. Interesting about the amout of Chloroform in the trunk, decomp DOES contain Chloroform but in miniscle amounts. With these results it shows someone had to have put pure choloroform in the trunk.

About the gasoline. It could only come in those levels if spilled or poured in the trunk, no way those vapors came from open containers, period. Which indicates to him that someone tried to clean with this agent.

The fact that there were 5 elements only found in human decomp is normal for this type of testing. Many of the agents WILL be similar to animals but will have other compounds that point to animal cadavers, NO other animal compounds were found, which concludes that this decomp can ONLY be human.

I asked abotu the sushi theroy so loved by some, he laughed at me. He said there is NO POSSIBLE way any of these compounds that point to human decomp come from fish, why do you think they compared it to a pig? The pig make-up is the closest to human found in the environment and NO OTHER pig elements were found ruling out a pig, where the hell do I get shushi from anyway? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard (says him).

He also asked who *I* did in.... Nice.

He doesn't follow this case at all but said it's obvios to him that *whomever this Caylee is* she is dead, he body was in the car without being placed in any bag or anything for 2-3 days and choloroform was used either on her or in the trunk. Hair won't normally have cloroform in it even in trace amounts due to death so unless a trace amount was spilled on it it was chemically induced as in ingested prior to death, even more than once.

He said he'd like to see the fiber samples which would most likely contain skin samples from fluids that they can pull DNA from.


Ok, that's what I got before he had to leave.


Hope this helps!

Thanks again, IM, for the insight. I need to go back and read the report (yet again). I was thinking the time frame of 2.6 days was based on the gases analyzed, not just the fibers...ah back to re-read

[Elley Mae]

I've been thinking the 23rd June.

[Blink34]

[quote=Insomnia Momma;2860275]For those that missed it on the first thread
very respectfully snipped and bolded by me..


This is what I typed out while talking to my cousin who is in his last year of school to be a forensic pathologist.


Ok, he says about the 2.6 days. It appears as if this body was placed in the enclosed space of the trunk directly after death and left there in an unsealed container for 2 to 3 days per the test results. The body then could have remained in the enclosed space but was then placed in a recepticle to carry it, halting the decomp process on the fibers of the carpet in the trunk.

Many hairs were found, ONE with the death band/ The hair withthe death band also showed Chloroform in small traces. Interesting about the amout of Chloroform in the trunk, decomp DOES contain Chloroform but in miniscle amounts. With these results it shows someone had to have put pure choloroform in the trunk.

About the gasoline. It could only come in those levels if spilled or poured in the trunk, no way those vapors came from open containers, period. Which indicates to him that someone tried to clean with this agent.


In the car without being placed in any bag or anything for 2-3 days and choloroform was used either on her or in the trunk. Hair won't normally have cloroform in it even in trace amounts due to death so unless a trace amount was spilled on it it was chemically induced as in ingested prior to death, even more than once.

He said he'd like to see the fiber samples which would most likely contain skin samples from fluids that they can pull DNA from.

Thank you again for posting this, really important info!

Soo, again I say, BS GA took those gas cans out on 6/24- No way.

[laniefi]

Originally Posted by Bern

I managed to lose my post LOL

Regarding the shovel, I didn't think there would be forensic on it. I always thought that Casy used the shovel as leverage to lift that playhouse. CA told Gretta that her and GA had to lift it bc it was so heavy. I think Casy placed Caylee underneath it just until she figured out what to do with her. I don't think she ever buried her, just sort of put the playhouse over top of her. She may have used a shovel in the shed the first time and put it back and on June 18th she found the shed locked. She had to borrrow one. She gave it back, so how did she bury her at the Airport or where ever. I don't think she did, I think she just put her in a wooded area. I hope that is the case as it will be easier to find her.

That's right - in one of the videos there are two people (police I assume) trying to move it and they end up SLIDING it, not PICKING IT UP.

It looked plastic to me though - what would make it so heavy?

[sweetwater]

Originally Posted by leandjl

I'm wondering since KC had that incident with 2 flat tires in May and GA said he replaced those tires did she have a good spare in her trunk? If not, I believe a child Caylee's age could be placed in the space usually holding a spare tire. That might explain the forensic evidence taken from the spare tire cover. Not familiar with that style of car so not sure if this is a possibility or not.

Another WS member has the same Sunfire as this Caylee death car; she posted great pictures of the trunk, inside the spare tire space,... and listed dimensions. I'll look for the link. A child could fit inside the spare tire area.

[Insomnia Momma]

Originally Posted by icherish

I know, it leaves room for doubt.

Another concern is the part about the absense of another chemical (can't remember the name) that is a usual component of human decomp. Went on to theorize that Caylee's approx. age of 3 years may not have been long enough for that particular chemical to build in her tissues, but that this theory had not been studied.

That other chemical would be fluoride. I made a post about it on one of the last two pages on the other forensic thread. I believe that it wouldn't show in a young child. They don't have much exposure to fluoride at that age other than tap water. (that was the gist of my post)

[Lovejac]

Originally Posted by Bern

I managed to lose my post LOL

Regarding the shovel, I didn't think there would be forensic on it. I always thought that Casy used the shovel as leverage to lift that playhouse. CA told Gretta that her and GA had to lift it bc it was so heavy. I think Casy placed Caylee underneath it just until she figured out what to do with her. I don't think she ever buried her, just sort of put the playhouse over top of her. She may have used a shovel in the shed the first time and put it back and on June 18th she found the shed locked. She had to borrrow one. She gave it back, so how did she bury her at the Airport or where ever. I don't think she did, I think she just put her in a wooded area. I hope that is the case as it will be easier to find her.

But the playhouse doesn't have a bottom to it, all casey would have to do is open the door to the playhouse and put Caylee in there.

The bottom of the playhouse is the ground.

[sweetwater]

The car info is on the General Discussion thread #159.
Here's a link to the car trunk photos:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...view=slideshow

[Tracy1]

Question, regarding the other hair in the trunk-that did NOT show signs of decomp.:

Does it mean that there were hairs from a live person as well, OR that the rest of the hairs were too contaminated to determine if there was decomp.(from the gas, for example)?

And if there were caylee's hairs that didn't show decomp., could that possibly mean that she was alive in that trunk at some point, whether it be right before death or on previous occasions(i.e. casey drugging her and leaving her in the trunk)??

[Lovejac]

Originally Posted by laniefi

That's right - in one of the videos there are two people (police I assume) trying to move it and they end up SLIDING it, not PICKING IT UP.

It looked plastic to me though - what would make it so heavy?

Lanie, my kids playhouse is half the size at Caylee's and is made of hard plastic like hers, it is not so much heavy as it is ackward to move if you know what I mean.

[Elley Mae]

In reference to all the gas in the trunk, remember Casey had gas cans in and out of that trunk all the time.

[concentric]

The recipe to make Chloroform was easily found on the web by a man who used it to rape women.

[laniefi]

Originally Posted by Lovejac

Lanie, my kids playhouse is half the size at Caylee's and is made of hard plastic like hers, it is not so much heavy as it is ackward to move if you know what I mean.

Ah - I gotcha - I had a good old fashion wooden playhouse when I was younger! HEAVY!!!

[TexasLil]

Originally Posted by Insomnia Momma

That other chemical would be fluoride. I made a post about it on one of the last two pages on the other forensic thread. I believe that it wouldn't show in a young child. They don't have much exposure to fluoride at that age other than tap water. (that was the gist of my post)

Even less flouride would be present if Caylee drank bottled water most of the time. It contains no flouride. My pediatrician encourages children drinking only tap water for this reason.

[Elley Mae]

I wonder if some of the chemicals that were found are chemicals that would be in cleaners?

[sweetwater]

Originally Posted by laniefi

That's right - in one of the videos there are two people (police I assume) trying to move it and they end up SLIDING it, not PICKING IT UP.

It looked plastic to me though - what would make it so heavy?

There was ALOT of discussion about this playhouse a few months ago, weight, size,... it is not light. They're made to withstand kids
And, I don't remember,... maybe there was stuff inside it to discourage people from moving it, too.

[Tracy1]

Originally Posted by Elley Mae

In reference to all the gas in the trunk, remember Casey had gas cans in and out of that trunk all the time.

Yes, but it seems to me that the gas wasn't from tiny amounts that had been spilled. It sounds like gas was poured in the truck, and that would definitely mess with DNA tests. And who knows, maybe the gas cans being in her trunk all the time was a cover because she knew this would come out eventually.

[Baznme]

Originally Posted by Lovejac

But the playhouse doesn't have a bottom to it, all casey would have to do is open the door to the playhouse and put Caylee in there.

The bottom of the playhouse is the ground.

It had pavers under it for a floor. You can see that in some of the pic's w/Caylee in it.

[future criminologist]

why in the world would someone use gasoline to clean?

wouldn't turpentine be better?

ughh...like so many things in this case...this just doesn't make sense to me. gasoline, human decomp, and chloroform...

unless...do you think she somehow burned the body?

[Elley Mae]

Originally Posted by TexasLil

Even less flouride would be present if Caylee drank bottled water most of the time. It contains no flouride. My pediatrician encourages children drinking only tap water for this reason.

Tap water is only good if you are on (city) water,not well water. Don't know about Florida.

[sweetwater]

Originally Posted by Lovejac

But the playhouse doesn't have a bottom to it, all casey would have to do is open the door to the playhouse and put Caylee in there.

The bottom of the playhouse is the ground.

Excellent point!

[icherish]

Originally Posted by Insomnia Momma

That other chemical would be fluoride. I made a post about it on one of the last two pages on the other forensic thread. I believe that it wouldn't show in a young child. They don't have much exposure to fluoride at that age other than tap water. (that was the gist of my post)

Thanks, momma. Still catching up...I went right for the reports and just skimmed the first thread before coming to this one.