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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #1  
Old 11-22-2008, 09:01 PM
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Cadaver Dogs, Search Dogs, K9 Units

She wanted the cadaver dogs to check the area by the retaining wall/rocks, next to the pool, for evidence in case Caylee fell and hit her head there.

Wait? these are cadaver dogs right? do they search for remenants of blood left by a bleeding wound or evidence of decomposition from human remains?

My understanding is it could be both depending on their training no?

BTW in the interview she mentions they said they did not hit anywhere near that location.
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Last edited by JBean; 12-02-2008 at 10:47 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2008, 09:05 PM
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This woman is such a pack of lies that one would AVOID checking where she says to do so for fear of the evidence she might have thought would be there. Maybe Caylee had a cut and bled in that vicinity a year ago...That's what I think when she suggests such a notion. That's how many times this lying Grandmother has obfuscated the truth!

MOO
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
This woman is such a pack of lies that one would AVOID checking where she says to do so for fear of the evidence she might have thought would be there. Maybe Caylee had a cut and bled in that vicinity a year ago...That's what I think when she suggests such a notion. That's how many times this lying Grandmother has obfuscated the truth!

MOO
I think when she asked for the dogs, she did not realize what the dogs did. Many people automatically assume all dogs search and pick up scents of a person. I don't believe she had any idea they had cadaver dogs which only alert on human decomp. Most people don't know the difference and she kept saying in the interview about GA's sweat they alerted on and about him bleeding, so the dogs found that.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:06 AM
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But for the record, the dogs DID hit in the yard right? I know she said the hits were inconsistent...but what IS the truth...I never could find the K9 trainers testimony at the Bond Hearing or anywhere else for that matter, although I know that I saw it once...does anyone else recall seeing it, or recall if there was a report about it in any of the documents? It would be nice to lay it to rest:

♣ Where DID the dogs hit in the yard
♣ How much time elapsed between when the 1st dog hit, the 2nd dog etc...
♣ How many dogs hit on the same spots
♣ Did the dogs hit anywhere where another dog did NOT?
♣ Did only ONE dog hit on the trunk
Maybe we need a DOG thread...

Turbo? You have some lovely dogs that I am certain I hear you say you were training as cadaver dogs, at least one? Maybe since you are "in the field" you would know more and could answer more about this?
__________________

ABC provided $200,000.00 to
Casey Anthonys defense!
The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
But for the record, the dogs DID hit in the yard right? I know she said the hits were inconsistent...but what IS the truth...I never could find the K9 trainers testimony at the Bond Hearing or anywhere else for that matter, although I know that I saw it once...does anyone else recall seeing it, or recall if there was a report about it in any of the documents? It would be nice to lay it to rest:

♣ Where DID the dogs hit in the yard
♣ How much time elapsed between when the 1st dog hit, the 2nd dog etc...
♣ How many dogs hit on the same spots
♣ Did the dogs hit anywhere where another dog did NOT?
♣ Did only ONE dog hit on the trunk
Maybe we need a DOG thread...

Turbo? You have some lovely dogs that I am certain I hear you say you were training as cadaver dogs, at least one? Maybe since you are "in the field" you would know more and could answer more about this?

I know, you are asking the same questions I have wondered about. We might have to wait until the trial.
Btw, did anyone else notice when GA was talking about the dogs he said something about Caylee peeing by her playhouse & he knew the dogs would hit on that.
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
This woman is such a pack of lies that one would AVOID checking where she says to do so for fear of the evidence she might have thought would be there. Maybe Caylee had a cut and bled in that vicinity a year ago...That's what I think when she suggests such a notion. That's how many times this lying Grandmother has obfuscated the truth!

MOO
True, I woud believe.

Last edited by Dr. Know?; 11-23-2008 at 12:29 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LeLe1953 View Post
I know, you are asking the same questions I have wondered about. We might have to wait until the trial.
Btw, did anyone else notice when GA was talking about the dogs he said something about Caylee peeing by her playhouse & he knew the dogs would hit on that.
I don't think cadaver dogs "hit" on human urine, UNLESS it is the release, the final release at death or after death where the bowels and the bladder void themselves...this can occur instantly or even days later...but I am sure the dogs WOULD hit on this urine...but not from a LIVE person...ya know? They kill me.
__________________

ABC provided $200,000.00 to
Casey Anthonys defense!
The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
But for the record, the dogs DID hit in the yard right? I know she said the hits were inconsistent...but what IS the truth...I never could find the K9 trainers testimony at the Bond Hearing or anywhere else for that matter, although I know that I saw it once...does anyone else recall seeing it, or recall if there was a report about it in any of the documents? It would be nice to lay it to rest:

♣ Where DID the dogs hit in the yard
♣ How much time elapsed between when the 1st dog hit, the 2nd dog etc...
♣ How many dogs hit on the same spots
♣ Did the dogs hit anywhere where another dog did NOT?
♣ Did only ONE dog hit on the trunk
Maybe we need a DOG thread...

Turbo? You have some lovely dogs that I am certain I hear you say you were training as cadaver dogs, at least one? Maybe since you are "in the field" you would know more and could answer more about this?
I am only training one dog. He has been trained as Search/Rescue for 3 years. He is very good at that and is doing very well in cadaver training. I am cross training him at the same time with land and water, so it is a little slower than just one or the other. He has not made any false alerts at all and can find the scent in anything so far. I have been working him with it encased in concrete the last couple of weeks and he hits everytime. They say some dogs just instinctively learn this easily. Being already a good scent animal, he seems to just need the scent you want found. I am considering trying a Basenji once I get him trained. They claim they are awesome in cadaver scents. We will see.

If I understood what they said about the back yard search, they evidently brought in one dog and he alerted beside the pool, around the sand box area and by the playhouse. Then they brought in another cadaver dog from another county and got the same places on alert. I have some pictures of the areas they dug up I will post. They took soil from all three areas I was told.

Both dogs also alerted on the trunk of the car.

In my opinion Cindy flat lied when she said they were inconsistent. It was my understanding they BOTH alerted exactly the same places.

What I have not seen or read, is did they use them in the house? There was something about blood on her bed headboard, but that has disappeared.

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/p...onyflags-2.jpg

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=41089096.jpg

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=41089110.jpg

http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=41077046.jpg
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by LeLe1953 View Post
I know, you are asking the same questions I have wondered about. We might have to wait until the trial.
Btw, did anyone else notice when GA was talking about the dogs he said something about Caylee peeing by her playhouse & he knew the dogs would hit on that.
They will NOT alert on urine or blood or skin, unless they are dead. CA also tried to say they must have alerted on GA's blood where he cut himself, and his perspiration..........That is all bull.

I honestly do not believe they would have allowed those dogs there if they knew how cadaver dogs work. I think they had them confused with search animals and it never occurred to them what happened there until it was too late. They admitted to already having been searching in the back yard, and I believe they thought the dogs would just "search."
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:59 AM
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Does anyone know if there is a door in the garage that leads directly to the back yard, or would they have to go all the way through the house to access the back yard area? If there IS a door, then looking at the pics, it appears that she could have dug out a small area UNDERNEATH the sandbox and placed her there and then placed the sandbox back on top of her. She could have then removed her from there when she took her where ever it is that she finally took her in the end. Just looking at the red flags, it seems that would have been dirt on either side of where her body may have been lying, and when Casey removed her the dirt still bore the scent.

Also, I know that onelostgrl told me once that only one dog hit on the trunk and I made an effort to find out if that was a fact, but I was unable to "pin it down" so to speak. Does anyone out there have any information about the dog hit(s) on the trunk and does anyone know where to find the testimony of the handler?

Thanks for the pictures Turbo...also, one last question...In order to train a dog to hit on human cadaver smell, where do you obtain that smell? I was curious about that, and just could not work it out in my own mind how the dog could be trained to "hit" it unless you had the real thing? Thanks for all your insights.
__________________

ABC provided $200,000.00 to
Casey Anthonys defense!
The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:05 AM
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When I was younger I lived in a very rural area. LE came to look for an older man lost in the forest around my home. They stayed at our house with their two dogs. One tracker dog and one cadaver dog.
They searched with the tracker first and while they were gone the dog handler used the time to run practise with his body dog.I laid the search area with a dead chipmunk, pieces of raw beef, and several other revolting items and, of course, the prompt item from the handler.

Even in dense woods, with all the distractions I laid, plus the natural smells, that dog hit consistantly on the prompt without ever being wrong. They are GOOD!
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:30 AM
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When I was younger I lived in a very rural area. LE came to look for an older man lost in the forest around my home. They stayed at our house with their two dogs. One tracker dog and one cadaver dog.
They searched with the tracker first and while they were gone the dog handler used the time to run practise with his body dog.I laid the search area with a dead chipmunk, pieces of raw beef, and several other revolting items and, of course, the prompt item from the handler.

Even in dense woods, with all the distractions I laid, plus the natural smells, that dog hit consistantly on the prompt without ever being wrong. They are GOOD!
What IS the prompt is what I wonder? I mean, if it IS human cadaver scent, then how on earth do they produce that? I just can't wrap my mind around it for some reason...
__________________

ABC provided $200,000.00 to
Casey Anthonys defense!
The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK View Post
They will NOT alert on urine or blood or skin, unless they are dead. CA also tried to say they must have alerted on GA's blood where he cut himself, and his perspiration..........That is all bull.

I honestly do not believe they would have allowed those dogs there if they knew how cadaver dogs work. I think they had them confused with search animals and it never occurred to them what happened there until it was too late. They admitted to already having been searching in the back yard, and I believe they thought the dogs would just "search."
I'm thinking the same thing. I don't believe that was GA's idea. And still to this day, SOMETHING about the backyard and that house, more so the backyard, continues to bother me.. Do you think there is a possibity LE may quietly plan on revisiting the property without it leaking out? They've had time to evaluate their findings;I would hope one of the investigators would also have 2nd thoughts about that property and consider another look.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post

Also, I know that onelostgrl told me once that only one dog hit on the trunk and I made an effort to find out if that was a fact, but I was unable to "pin it down" so to speak. Does anyone out there have any information about the dog hit(s) on the trunk and does anyone know where to find the testimony of the handler?
*snipped*

IIRC, in the first release of docs ('400pgs') in the 2nd set page 50 of 100 is the narrative of the K-9 "Gerus" inspecting the Pontiac. Following Gerus' work the search of the Anthony's backyard was arranged by the officer that visits with them after finishing some conversation w/ Mr. Burner. All, IIRC.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:39 AM
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What IS the prompt is what I wonder? I mean, if it IS human cadaver scent, then how on earth do they produce that? I just can't wrap my mind around it for some reason...
They can use pieces of sheets that have been in a body bag with a corpse at the morgue.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:40 AM
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What IS the prompt is what I wonder? I mean, if it IS human cadaver scent, then how on earth do they produce that? I just can't wrap my mind around it for some reason...

His prompt was a small section of matting in a sealed container. A dead body had been found lying on this matting. The person had been dead for some time and the matting was soaked with fluid.


I remember all this cause I love dogs, found the subject fasinating, and the handler was sooooo handsome. (sigh)
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:42 AM
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What IS the prompt is what I wonder? I mean, if it IS human cadaver scent, then how on earth do they produce that? I just can't wrap my mind around it for some reason...
Magic-cat, I would guess it is obtained from cadavers donated for the benefit of science.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:32 AM
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My theory on the hits in the backyard are this...

CA took the clothing and hosed them off. Possibly by or in the sandbox area.

Water from hosing off the clothing "pooled" at the pool area.

Rinsed clothing was then carried and draped in the playhouse to drip most or all of the water out before she took the clothes into the house to put in the washing machine.

The water might dilute the cadaver scent slightly, but only slightly and won't eliminate it.

Strongest scents would be where she rinsed the clothing, where the rinsed material "pooled" and where the clothes dripped dry in the playhouse area.

Dogs would indeed "hit" on those areas and track the trail to those areas.

If the clothing was dry or almost dry when she took them into the house, there may not be much for the dogs to track into the home.

I would be curious to know if those same dogs were worked around the washing machine/laundry room. Pause for thought.

Also, something to keep in mind. Bodies which are donated to science often are used for "cadaver work" for the dogs. While the bits and pieces here or there are useful and very beneficial, full human body decomp has thrown some dogs due to the intensity of the odor. They will hit on the outskirts, where the minimal odor that they trained on (pieces) is, often nowhere close to the actual body. Dogs need to be proofed and certified on full cadaver to help minimize incidents of this.

Hope that helps some.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs View Post
My theory on the hits in the backyard are this...

CA took the clothing and hosed them off. Possibly by or in the sandbox area.

Water from hosing off the clothing "pooled" at the pool area.

Rinsed clothing was then carried and draped in the playhouse to drip most or all of the water out before she took the clothes into the house to put in the washing machine.

The water might dilute the cadaver scent slightly, but only slightly and won't eliminate it.

Strongest scents would be where she rinsed the clothing, where the rinsed material "pooled" and where the clothes dripped dry in the playhouse area.

Dogs would indeed "hit" on those areas and track the trail to those areas.

If the clothing was dry or almost dry when she took them into the house, there may not be much for the dogs to track into the home.

I would be curious to know if those same dogs were worked around the washing machine/laundry room. Pause for thought.

Also, something to keep in mind. Bodies which are donated to science often are used for "cadaver work" for the dogs. While the bits and pieces here or there are useful and very beneficial, full human body decomp has thrown some dogs due to the intensity of the odor. They will hit on the outskirts, where the minimal odor that they trained on (pieces) is, often nowhere close to the actual body. Dogs need to be proofed and certified on full cadaver to help minimize incidents of this.

Hope that helps some.
Thanks for a very insightful and informative post. It makes the most sense of anything I have read about this subject. All of the hypothesis and wild theories floating around do nothing but confuse the issue for me.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:40 AM
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Does anyone know if there is a door in the garage that leads directly to the back yard, or would they have to go all the way through the house to access the back yard area?
You know, I asked this months ago and never got a reply. Wish we could find out.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs View Post
My theory on the hits in the backyard are this...

CA took the clothing and hosed them off. Possibly by or in the sandbox area.

Water from hosing off the clothing "pooled" at the pool area.

Rinsed clothing was then carried and draped in the playhouse to drip most or all of the water out before she took the clothes into the house to put in the washing machine.

The water might dilute the cadaver scent slightly, but only slightly and won't eliminate it.

Strongest scents would be where she rinsed the clothing, where the rinsed material "pooled" and where the clothes dripped dry in the playhouse area.

Dogs would indeed "hit" on those areas and track the trail to those areas.

If the clothing was dry or almost dry when she took them into the house, there may not be much for the dogs to track into the home.

I would be curious to know if those same dogs were worked around the washing machine/laundry room. Pause for thought.

Also, something to keep in mind. Bodies which are donated to science often are used for "cadaver work" for the dogs. While the bits and pieces here or there are useful and very beneficial, full human body decomp has thrown some dogs due to the intensity of the odor. They will hit on the outskirts, where the minimal odor that they trained on (pieces) is, often nowhere close to the actual body. Dogs need to be proofed and certified on full cadaver to help minimize incidents of this.

Hope that helps some.
Your theory sounds very possible. I can see Cindy rinsing the 'stinky' off the clothes prior to throwing them in the washer. Don't have any idea as to if the dogs were brought into the house but you would think so.
Are you of the belief Caylee's body was never hidden back there?
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
Does anyone know if there is a door in the garage that leads directly to the back yard, or would they have to go all the way through the house to access the back yard area? If there IS a door, then looking at the pics, it appears that she could have dug out a small area UNDERNEATH the sandbox and placed her there and then placed the sandbox back on top of her. She could have then removed her from there when she took her where ever it is that she finally took her in the end. Just looking at the red flags, it seems that would have been dirt on either side of where her body may have been lying, and when Casey removed her the dirt still bore the scent.

Also, I know that onelostgrl told me once that only one dog hit on the trunk and I made an effort to find out if that was a fact, but I was unable to "pin it down" so to speak. Does anyone out there have any information about the dog hit(s) on the trunk and does anyone know where to find the testimony of the handler?

Thanks for the pictures Turbo...also, one last question...In order to train a dog to hit on human cadaver smell, where do you obtain that smell? I was curious about that, and just could not work it out in my own mind how the dog could be trained to "hit" it unless you had the real thing? Thanks for all your insights.
There should be a side or back door in the garage because the day the CSI Team went for the gas cans, they entered into the garage and closed the garage door immediately. If there was no garage door, wouldn't they have gone through the gate?
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
Does anyone know if there is a door in the garage that leads directly to the back yard, or would they have to go all the way through the house to access the back yard area? If there IS a door, then looking at the pics, it appears that she could have dug out a small area UNDERNEATH the sandbox and placed her there and then placed the sandbox back on top of her. She could have then removed her from there when she took her where ever it is that she finally took her in the end. Just looking at the red flags, it seems that would have been dirt on either side of where her body may have been lying, and when Casey removed her the dirt still bore the scent.

Also, I know that onelostgrl told me once that only one dog hit on the trunk and I made an effort to find out if that was a fact, but I was unable to "pin it down" so to speak. Does anyone out there have any information about the dog hit(s) on the trunk and does anyone know where to find the testimony of the handler?

Thanks for the pictures Turbo...also, one last question...In order to train a dog to hit on human cadaver smell, where do you obtain that smell? I was curious about that, and just could not work it out in my own mind how the dog could be trained to "hit" it unless you had the real thing? Thanks for all your insights.
In this area, we use actual cadaver pieces. It takes a very small piece. (size of a fingernail or smaller) I have heard of synthetic scents, but I have never met any trainer who has used it.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:22 AM
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Your theory sounds very possible. I can see Cindy rinsing the 'stinky' off the clothes prior to throwing them in the washer. Don't have any idea as to if the dogs were brought into the house but you would think so.
Are you of the belief Caylee's body was never hidden back there?
Yes. I do not believe that her body was ever near the backyard.
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  #25  
Old 11-23-2008, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
What IS the prompt is what I wonder? I mean, if it IS human cadaver scent, then how on earth do they produce that? I just can't wrap my mind around it for some reason...
I don't know if this has been answered, but the cadaver scent can be obtained by laying an object like a sheet or piece of material under a cadaver for a certain amount of time.
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