Cadaver Dogs, Search Dogs, K9 Units

[JusticeorJustUs]

Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK

No........you will get a laugh out of that............go read it.........it is not their logs, it is an actual manual they asked for.

You know, not much really, really leaves me speachless. I'm completely gobsmacked after reading all that. This after getting over fits of hysterical laughter while reading. I simply must tell the group I still work with (when I still can) that I'll bring video cam and video and audio training exercise from my chair...rolling right along after them. I'll make sure to bring "the Manual" right off my bookcase to make sure I'm doing it all right and they are, too.

Turbo, let me know if I can be of service to you and yours, ok? <<ducks and runs>>

These motions in this case are conspiring to kill ol' GizaMom for sure.

No. They know nothing of working, specifically cadaver, dogs and apparently neither did CA when she invited them to search the backyard.

That's more than grasping at straws...that's throwing the whole box of straws against the wall and praying something sticks.

Coley -- special thank you for providing that link.

Originally Posted by Coley

Here is the link to all 10 filed.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photog...dexGallery.htm

I said all along that Justice and Liberty were smarter than Baez. I'm convinced of it now.

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK

I read that.........I think I will pass on teaching Casper to read the "manual" before he searches...........

I noticed they replied there were no manuals. That entire motion screamed they know NOTHING about cadaver dogs.

JB said the sherrifs office told them the department had no training manual to speak of. Then he went on about how there was a letter from 2007 from someone there to someone else there that they should include a section in the next release of the Sherrifs office training manual.

An intelligent person would take this to mean the training manual that they provide for ALL officers of the law and there should be a section incuded in that publication, this "new" issue has probably not been published yet. And JB is trying to make it sound like here see there is a manual, or at least that is how I interperet the Baezism

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

Bold by me...

Right. Those would be the training logs for the dogs. It includes training information, hits, previous cases worked on (if any), etc. He's trying to impeach credibility.

I fully agree, but he never asked for that, he asked for the department's training manual. IE: how were they trained, rules regulations. Not training logs. One must ask the right question to get the answer one is seeking.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

You know, not much really, really leaves me speachless. I'm completely gobsmacked after reading all that. This after getting over fits of hysterical laughter while reading. I simply must tell the group I still work with (when I still can) that I'll bring video cam and video and audio training exercise from my chair...rolling right along after them. I'll make sure to bring "the Manual" right off my bookcase to make sure I'm doing it all right and they are, too.

Turbo, let me know if I can be of service to you and yours, ok? <<ducks and runs>>

These motions in this case are conspiring to kill ol' GizaMom for sure.

No. They know nothing of working, specifically cadaver, dogs and apparently neither did CA when she invited them to search the backyard.

That's more than grasping at straws...that's throwing the whole box of straws against the wall and praying something sticks.

Coley -- special thank you for providing that link.



I said all along that Justice and Liberty were smarter than Baez. I'm convinced of it now.

No problem. Anytime my friend.

After I saw these, especially the one with the "doggy manual" and the laptop, I started to wonder if he had a special program on his computer where it has ALL defense motions and if he goes and fills out the blanks because he knows he is screwed.

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

ROFLMAO! OMG --- running for oxygen due to excessive laughing.

I'll clean the screen of diet pepsi momentarily.

I needed that. LOL


Read your last post, Turbo. I'm off to go in search of that. This I do have to read. ROFL!

Right! apparently I am catching up to this thread in reverse lol

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Right! apparently I am catching up to this thread in reverse lol

Aw, it's ok Frip. We still love you

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK

A well trained dog can hit where a body has been within minutes of death. Some perps have used lime and fertilizers to cover the areas in an attempt to throw off the dogs, but that is not very likely anymore. There are new ways we train them to overcome that.

Really? minutes of death? I understand biology but I am not sure what sent they are picking up on? this cadaver sent is what exactly? I guess that is what I need to read up on.

IE: you cut yourself you bleed.
you die and someone cuts into you blood runs out.

There is a distinct difference in these fluids?

Same principle: You pee.
You die and your bladder lets loose.

Again there is a difference here?

I am not even asking about the other route, I would, um, puke!

[JusticeorJustUs]

Originally Posted by Coley

No problem. Anytime my friend.

After I saw these, especially the one with the "doggy manual" and the laptop, I started to wonder if he had a special program on his computer where it has ALL defense motions and if he goes and fills out the blanks because he knows he is screwed.

Bold by me...

ROFL. I love it. Criminal Defense Attorney Mad-Libs. (Those as old as me will remember what Mad-Libs are. )

In Baez's case....just fill in any old thing. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.

I wonder if there's enough time to do up and publish a "manual" called "Cadaver Dogs For Dummies" for him. Well, I could get two copies published. One for CA, too.

[JusticeorJustUs]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Right! apparently I am catching up to this thread in reverse lol

No worries, Frip. Guilty of the same myself at times.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Really? minutes of death? I understand biology but I am not sure what sent they are picking up on? this cadaver sent is what exactly? I guess that is what I need to read up on.

IE: you cut yourself you bleed.
you die and someone cuts into you blood runs out.

There is a distinct difference in these fluids?

Same principle: You pee.
You die and your bladder lets loose.

Again there is a difference here?

I am not even asking about the other route, I would, um, puke!

Frip~
Here is a snipped part of the article I posted on page 3 about how soon:


In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

Bold by me...

ROFL. I love it. Criminal Defense Attorney Mad-Libs. (Those as old as me will remember what Mad-Libs are. )

In Baez's case....just fill in any old thing. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.

I wonder if there's enough time to do up and publish a "manual" called "Cadaver Dogs For Dummies" for him. Well, I could get two copies published. One for CA, too.

Hey now....I remember Mad-Libs. I once owned some too. I'm not THAT young. ha

[JusticeorJustUs]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Really? minutes of death? I understand biology but I am not sure what sent they are picking up on? this cadaver sent is what exactly? I guess that is what I need to read up on.

IE: you cut yourself you bleed.
you die and someone cuts into you blood runs out.

There is a distinct difference in these fluids?

Same principle: You pee.
You die and your bladder lets loose.

Again there is a difference here?

I am not even asking about the other route, I would, um, puke!

Frip -- here's a link that might help explain some things -- the when it happens and hows, so to speak.

The decomposition process

Warning --- there are strong graphic content and images.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

Frip -- here's a link that might help explain some things -- the when it happens and hows, so to speak.

The decomposition process

Warning --- there are strong graphic content and images.

That website is the best! I have learned so much from it.

[Theonly1]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Really? minutes of death? I understand biology but I am not sure what sent they are picking up on? this cadaver sent is what exactly? I guess that is what I need to read up on.

IE: you cut yourself you bleed.
you die and someone cuts into you blood runs out.

There is a distinct difference in these fluids?

Same principle: You pee.
You die and your bladder lets loose.

Again there is a difference here?

I am not even asking about the other route, I would, um, puke!

First, I'm not an expert. But from what I've read, if the body post-mortem expels fluids (like urine, feces, etc.) and if it is after time that the body starts to break down with its internal fluids that some of the decomposing fluids would be in small amounts with the urine and show as decomp. I could be wrong. But think that your body is a large amount of water and once the heart stops all the stuff starts to break down. You get the picture.

I know that at some point at decomp the body sometimes expels cells out of the mouth and nose lining too. That certainly would register to the dogs as decomp.

But if at the exact moment of death, if one was to defecate or urinate I would NOT think the dogs would show decomp on those fluids alone (if the body was instantly removed from scene). If the body held the fluid for awhile and then expelled it I think it would. What that time period is, I don't know.

[SuziQ]

Originally Posted by Coley

Bold by me:

Suzi, Do you think she was maybe underneath the carpet in the trunk?

By the way, very interesting point.

That's exactly where I think she was. The only thing that has kept me from thinking CA had anything to do with cover up was her excited utterance about the smell of the car in her 911 call. However, I think it's entirely possible that GA took care of the problem when he left for work. Not thinking that Cindy was going to actually find Casey and call 911. According to epass records GA drove a different way to work that night than he did coming home.

After listening to GA's interview with the FBI, I am convinced GA is a good liar. There was no way Casey's car was parked in his driveway on the 29th. It was at Amscot. It was out of gas, so Casey would not have been driving it around. Also, the gas can story just does not make sense. There was no way GA was near that car and didn't smell anything. At that point, Casey was already hiding the car from even her friends.

[songline]

Originally Posted by Pink Panther

This woman is such a pack of lies that one would AVOID checking where she says to do so for fear of the evidence she might have thought would be there. Maybe Caylee had a cut and bled in that vicinity a year ago...That's what I think when she suggests such a notion. That's how many times this lying Grandmother has obfuscated the truth!

MOO

She refused to give the volunteers a garment of Caylee's so they can find her.
Now she wants them to check her pool area in case Caylee fell???? OK....(bang head)
Does anyone smell a diversion? I do...

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

Frip -- here's a link that might help explain some things -- the when it happens and hows, so to speak.

The decomposition process

Warning --- there are strong graphic content and images.

Interesting reading, however I guess I need to understand the "cadaver sent" more, that site does not really explain that well.

Someone mentioned the pool earlier also, found this information on water dogs:
Water

A specialty subset of cadaver dogs is water cadaver dogs. Similar to cadaver dogs, these dogs have been trained to find the odor of decomposing human remains. However, water cadaver dogs have been specifically trained to locate and indicate the source of the odor to assist divers in a more directed and speedy recovery of a drowning victim.

http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/ca...ver_dogs.shtml

this site also mentions:
Cadaver dogs are first trained to recognize a wide spectrum of odors associated with human remains, depending on their specific use.

[TURBOTHINK]

Originally Posted by JusticeorJustUs

You know, not much really, really leaves me speachless. I'm completely gobsmacked after reading all that. This after getting over fits of hysterical laughter while reading. I simply must tell the group I still work with (when I still can) that I'll bring video cam and video and audio training exercise from my chair...rolling right along after them. I'll make sure to bring "the Manual" right off my bookcase to make sure I'm doing it all right and they are, too.

Turbo, let me know if I can be of service to you and yours, ok? <<ducks and runs>>

These motions in this case are conspiring to kill ol' GizaMom for sure.

No. They know nothing of working, specifically cadaver, dogs and apparently neither did CA when she invited them to search the backyard.

That's more than grasping at straws...that's throwing the whole box of straws against the wall and praying something sticks.

Coley -- special thank you for providing that link.



I said all along that Justice and Liberty were smarter than Baez. I'm convinced of it now.

I want you to teach your dog to read the manual.......LOL -

I told Casper to read it and he ate his.....I don't think he was impressed........ROFL!!

Seriously, who has a manual? Who has video tapes of all the training? That would take a library to hold them.

Geeshhhhhhhh these people are as nutty as fruitcakes.

[Friptzap]

Originally Posted by songline

She refused to give the volunteers a garment of Caylee's so they can find her.
Now she wants them to check her pool area in case Caylee fell???? OK....(bang head)
Does anyone smell a diversion? I do...

no, this is the old interview with the FBI, she wanted them to do that back when they were there the first time. I am sure they want NOTHING to be done now.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by SuziQ

That's exactly where I think she was. The only thing that has kept me from thinking CA had anything to do with cover up was her excited utterance about the smell of the car in her 911 call. However, I think it's entirely possible that GA took care of the problem when he left for work. Not thinking that Cindy was going to actually find Casey and call 911. According to epass records GA drove a different way to work that night than he did coming home.

After listening to GA's interview with the FBI, I am convinced GA is a good liar. There was no way Casey's car was parked in his driveway on the 29th. It was at Amscot. It was out of gas, so Casey would not have been driving it around. Also, the gas can story just does not make sense. There was no way GA was near that car and didn't smell anything. At that point, Casey was already hiding the car from even her friends.

Ahhhh....I believe you are SO right. I, too, believe GA is very well at getting over on LE. Well, the whole family to be exact but especially GA. I have been trying to figure out the whole e-pass and GA work. Can you either tell the directions he went or pm me the address and stuff to figure it out?

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

Interesting reading, however I guess I need to understand the "cadaver sent" more, that site does not really explain that well.

Someone mentioned the pool earlier also, found this information on water dogs:
Water

A specialty subset of cadaver dogs is water cadaver dogs. Similar to cadaver dogs, these dogs have been trained to find the odor of decomposing human remains. However, water cadaver dogs have been specifically trained to locate and indicate the source of the odor to assist divers in a more directed and speedy recovery of a drowning victim.

http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/ca...ver_dogs.shtml

this site also mentions:
Cadaver dogs are first trained to recognize a wide spectrum of odors associated with human remains, depending on their specific use.

It is still beyond me why they didn't check the pool.

Thanks for link Frip!

[TURBOTHINK]

Originally Posted by Friptzap

JB said the sherrifs office told them the department had no training manual to speak of. Then he went on about how there was a letter from 2007 from someone there to someone else there that they should include a section in the next release of the Sherrifs office training manual.

An intelligent person would take this to mean the training manual that they provide for ALL officers of the law and there should be a section incuded in that publication, this "new" issue has probably not been published yet. And JB is trying to make it sound like here see there is a manual, or at least that is how I interperet the Baezism

I realized that Frip........I was just making a joke about dogs needing to read their "training manuals".......It was kind of an inside joke between justice and I.....I am not aware of any LE which has a training manual per se.........If these things keep coming up in courts, I am sure there will be some provided by LE. The ole theory "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." LOL

They usually outsource the training unless it is a very large department with huge budgets, then they either pay for the trained dogs, or pay for the training.

Some LE does train their own K-9 dogs for work with the officers, but that is an entirely different type of training with a different purpose.

There are certifications for all different types of training which have to be passed in trials to become certified in each specialty. There is a process to each one with excellent behavioral training pretty much a prerequisite. You can't take a dog which runs on a farm and start him in cadaver or perp training. You have to have good control of the dog first, then be a good handler before you start such specialties.

Just like all specialized training, not all dogs take to cadaver training - some do, some don't. Some breeds seem to enjoy it more than others, but that could be the handler too, as many people who are excellent handlers don't like cadaver searches.

[SuziQ]

Originally Posted by Coley

Ahhhh....I believe you are SO right. I, too, believe GA is very well at getting over on LE. Well, the whole family to be exact but especially GA. I have been trying to figure out the whole e-pass and GA work. Can you either tell the directions he went or pm me the address and stuff to figure it out?

James Bond has been posting interesting snippets about the epass records and phone pings. Maybe he or someone can point us to the right thread? It's very interesting what has been figured out. James Bond ie; says, you can believe GA and CA, or you can believe the evidence. ITA on this.

[TURBOTHINK]

Originally Posted by Coley

It is still beyond me why they didn't check the pool.

Thanks for link Frip!

I have always wondered WHY they put a new filter pump on the pool right after her death. Pumps last years and all of a sudden Lee orders one and replaces theirs. I wondered if the sand in the pump was contaminated with decomp.

[SuziQ]

Originally Posted by TURBOTHINK

I have always wondered WHY they put a new filter pump on the pool right after her death. Pumps last years and all of a sudden Lee orders one and replaces theirs. I wondered if the sand in the pump was contaminated with decomp.

IIRC, LE took the pool pump and or the filter, which is why it needed to be replaced. You reminded me that we haven't seen the results of that testing either.