What about the obvious/The defense's written admission!

piratemom · #1 12-19-2008, 07:57 PM

I really don't know where to post this, so mods feel free to move it. But I do think this needs some attention!

Back when the prosecution hadn't decided whether or not the DP would be on the table the defense team wrote a letter spelling out that IF Caylee died it was "AN UNWITTING OVERDOSE OF A SEDATIVE"

What more do we need???????? If this isn't an admission of guilt what is?

Why isn't anyone bringing this up? Shouldn't this be all the prosecution needs at this point?

Please discuss!

JBean · #2 12-19-2008, 07:58 PM

link the info and change the title as to what the threads about and you're good to go.

biggirl · #3 12-19-2008, 08:00 PM

Good point. I had forgotten about that.

JaneInOz · #4 12-19-2008, 08:03 PM

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../05/ng.01.html

I found that about it

JaneInOz · #5 12-19-2008, 08:05 PM

And this http://www.wftv.com/news/17915608/detail.html

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/20...y_anthonys.php

impatientredhead · #6 12-19-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratemom

I really don't know where to post this, so mods feel free to move it. But I do think this needs some attention!

Back when the prosecution hadn't decided whether or not the DP would be on the table the defense team wrote a letter spelling out that IF Caylee died it was "AN UNWITTING OVERDOSE OF A SEDATIVE"

What more do we need???????? If this isn't an admission of guilt what is?

Why isn't anyone bringing this up? Shouldn't this be all the prosecution needs at this point?

Please discuss!

That was not an admission of guilt, it was one sentence out of a 30 page document that we did not get to read about why the state should not pursue the DP in this case. It will never been seen by a jury just like any negotiations that went on during any attempts at a plea deal wouldn't be admissable.

They are running toxicology on the remains, if she is positive for xanax prosecution will present that in a logical fashion (ie she wasn't prescribed xanax so whomever gave it to her was reckless with her life at a minimum, death during aggravated child abuse, or intentional murder).

piratemom · #7 12-19-2008, 08:13 PM

Thanks Jane for the link!

In my opinion this is the BEST evidence to date. In this written document you have the defendant saying "It was an unwitting overdose of a sedative". This provides us with a lot. It is disgusting to think we won't see this come up at the trial. This is the best we have so far!

With what little soft tissue left I won't be surprised if we wont be able to detect the xanax, AKA "Zanny" in her system.

How does the defense team get away with writing this letter and not having it thrown up in their face. I wish someone would bring this up to authorities. This little tidbit seems forgotten!!!!!

essies · #8 12-19-2008, 08:15 PM

I believe I heard Dr. G. say that even though toxicology wasn't back it would be hard to determine levels. I'm hoping that given the defense's offer of an explanation of a possible overdose that they may know that there is a witness(one of her friends,perhaps) who knows that KC has done this more than once. Remember (I believe it was Amy) one of her friends saying how Caylee slept through a loud party. I'm praying the defense has plenty-after all they charged her even without Caylee's remains.

piratemom · #9 12-19-2008, 08:18 PM

Also, if she was drugged with the Zannie (or chloroform) and died because KC gave her too much. It would explain why she never called 911. As opposed to an accidental pool death.

mysteriew · #10 12-20-2008, 10:56 AM

Thank you JBean!

This has nothing to do with the death penalty as the DP is still off the table.

Earlier Baez made some statements in his letter to the prosecutors regarding KC's involvement. As an attorney I don't think he can outright lie (he is considered to be an officer of the court) but he can certainly put his own spin on it. Publicly then and even more recently he presented that the defense believed Caylee to be alive but kidnapped. But yet he sent this letter which didn't match what he was saying publicly.

Since Caylee's remains have been found and since the medical examiner was unable to determine her cause of death on the evidence from the remains I thought that JB's words might reveal some clues. I believe that JB knows and has known how Caylee died. In the letter he says that it wasn't a premeditated murder.

I'm unable to pull up the old article. Does anyone have the full article? Any thoughts on what JB wrote compared to what we now know?

JBean · #11 12-20-2008, 11:09 AM

how about this thread mysteriew?

Capri · #12 12-20-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratemom

Thanks Jane for the link!

In my opinion this is the BEST evidence to date. In this written document you have the defendant saying "It was an unwitting overdose of a sedative". This provides us with a lot. It is disgusting to think we won't see this come up at the trial. This is the best we have so far!

With what little soft tissue left I won't be surprised if we wont be able to detect the xanax, AKA "Zanny" in her system.

How does the defense team get away with writing this letter and not having it thrown up in their face. I wish someone would bring this up to authorities. This little tidbit seems forgotten!!!!!

Authorities are well aware of it. Not to worry, they have enough evidence without it, the public just hasn't heard it all yet.

BonKai · #13 12-20-2008, 11:23 AM

Bolded by me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by essies

I believe I heard Dr. G. say that even though toxicology wasn't back it would be hard to determine levels. I'm hoping that given the defense's offer of an explanation of a possible overdose that they may know that there is a witness(one of her friends,perhaps) who knows that KC has done this more than once. Remember (I believe it was Amy) one of her friends saying how Caylee slept through a loud party. I'm praying the defense has plenty-after all they charged her even without Caylee's remains.

Yes, Dr. G did say this and it bothered me. However, if ANY traces of Xananx or chloroform are found, you would have to ask why! A child should not have ANY traces of Xanax in their system. I'm not sure about choroform - it's possible that trace amounts are normal. I'll have to do some research on that.

Broderick · #14 12-20-2008, 11:26 AM

I think Baez will be saying anything he likes at this point as has the family. That won't be his defense though. The DP lawyer was the one that did this work I think. He is no longer needed since DP is currently off the table.

No way in heck is he going to use a defense of mythical nannies and dark deep sinister plots to frame Casey or that someone used Caylee for a drug debt that she had no means to pay.

His defense, IF it goes to trial, will be something more puritanical and it will be used to lessen her sentencing. He gave us a clue when he said "We will all understand after his opening statement". It is not a mythical nanny. I highly doubt this reaches trial though, as I think he will plea out. It will be awhile before he attempts that because he is milking the publicity. I hope the prosecution refuses any plea deal.

CarrieSis · #15 12-20-2008, 11:29 AM

It's possible that Xanax, chloroform, etc weren't even involved. Waaay back when we discussed movies she might have seen/imitated, I brought up Freedomland, where a young child was killed with an overdose of cough syrup.

It could have been benadryl, tylenol, anything OTC that Casey might've given her hoping she'd go to sleep and stay that way for awhile.

piratemom · #16 12-20-2008, 01:53 PM

I remember that movie. I strongly feel Anniw supplied the xanax as KC wrote on one of her accounts, dont have the link. Hence zanny was created. I do believe KC used it on caylee enough to put her down for a night of partying. Xanax can come in .25 dosages that you can cut in half, you can crush it dissolve it and put in in juice. There would be a feeling of grogginess and sleepiness, not death. IF KC gave her the whole .25 that night or even 2 or more pills I could see her dying as a result. Either by accident or on purpose.
I wonder when JB threw this out (written no less) if they will try to go with Caylee accidentally found KC's xanax bottle and ate them because they look like candy.
Obviously KC couldnt call 911 and say I overdosed my daughter on xanax help me! Or even my daughter got in my xanax stash help me! She was terrified of what CA would then think of her, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN CA'S TO BEGIN WITH!!!!! After all she is a nurse and half the people I know are on xanax, ativan!!! Why wouldnt she be? She was a stressed out person obviously. KC stole $$$ from her why not her pills?
Then she panicks and hides the body. Simple as that!
I do think this HUGE scenario the own defense cooked up is the truth.
KC was looking to be this victim/famous person and went with this zanny story, never thinking ahead, thinking she was too good to get caught.
What I am so miffed about is how JB can say in the same breath that Caylee is in Mexico, kidnappers etc etc after this written document.

mysteriew · #17 12-20-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broderick

I think Baez will be saying anything he likes at this point as has the family. That won't be his defense though. The DP lawyer was the one that did this work I think. He is no longer needed since DP is currently off the table.

No way in heck is he going to use a defense of mythical nannies and dark deep sinister plots to frame Casey or that someone used Caylee for a drug debt that she had no means to pay.

His defense, IF it goes to trial, will be something more puritanical and it will be used to lessen her sentencing. He gave us a clue when he said "We will all understand after his opening statement". It is not a mythical nanny. I highly doubt this reaches trial though, as I think he will plea out. It will be awhile before he attempts that because he is milking the publicity. I hope the prosecution refuses any plea deal.

I agree. I think the defense is going to be that there were a number of factors that led to Caylee's death, none of which alone would have caused her to die but that combined together proved fatal.

I think it is possible that either she drugged Caylee or she left Caylee in her car, and that one of those combined with the taping her mouth led to Caylee's death.

I think the defense will be that KC was a mother at her wits end, with a 'difficult' child and that KC was trying to subdue her. And that Caylee died during that. I believe they will explain her other actions in how she disposed of her remains by saying she panicked and felt she had to hide Caylee's death. Or that she feared telling her parents that Caylee died. (You know, how she felt that her parents loved Caylee more than her and that they would never love her if they found out.) Just wait, at some point a "psychotic break" will be mentioned.

I do think that JB will try to prove innocent on the first degree murder, because proof of premediation will be hard to get. I think JB will be hoping for manslaughter, but he will have a hard time evading 2 nd degree murder.

mysteriew · #18 12-20-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBean

how about this thread mysteriew?

ROFL! It is great JB, but somehow I lost my post for a while.

JBean · #19 12-20-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysteriew

ROFL! It is great JB, but somehow I lost my post for a while.

oopsie I think I moved it around

when that happens go to all posts by mysteriew and when you find it, it will take you to it's new location.

mysteriew · #20 12-20-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBean

oopsie I think I moved it around

when that happens go to all posts by mysteriew and when you find it, it will take you to it's new location.

That's how I finally found it. It just took me a while to think of it.

azwriter · #21 12-20-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonKai

Bolded by me:

Yes, Dr. G did say this and it bothered me. However, if ANY traces of Xananx or chloroform are found, you would have to ask why! A child should not have ANY traces of Xanax in their system. I'm not sure about choroform - it's possible that trace amounts are normal. I'll have to do some research on that.

According to what we've been lead to believe about the finding of the body is that hair was also discovered. I believe the hair will reveal a wealth of information about what was in Caylee's system. Bonkai, you are correct, normally there should not be bit of Xanax in any child's system. But we also have the link back to the computer on how to make choroform, its effects and how to use it, was researched on line. That evidence, I think will go far, on casting a shadow of doubt the choroform was administered on purpose.
jmo

amethyst221 · #22 12-20-2008, 07:58 PM

I'm not a fan of the defense team or tactics, but (however inartfully something was written) a document like the one concerning the DP was making arguments hypothetically, as lawyers often do. "What if." "If she did x, though we are not admitting she did, then blah blah blah, poor Casey, blah blah." What she has told them is privileged and they aren't intending to reveal it in a court filing like this. Attorney argument or opinion is not fact/evidence. As to discussions about immunity, those can't be used as evidence, either. Somehow, the letters have come out into the public domain, but they aren't evidence or fact, either.

debbie0604 · #23 12-20-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonKai

Bolded by me:

Yes, Dr. G did say this and it bothered me. However, if ANY traces of Xananx or chloroform are found, you would have to ask why! A child should not have ANY traces of Xanax in their system. I'm not sure about choroform - it's possible that trace amounts are normal. I'll have to do some research on that.

What I have a problem with is that there was ALOT of chloroform in the trunk of the car... and a mitachondrial match to either KC or Caylee's hair from the hair that was found in the trunk (since CA only provided LE a brush containing hair that had both KC and Caylee's hair on it. The trunk smelled like human decomposition. Why is that? We have hair that is a very very high probability is Caylee's, we have high levels of chloroform in the trunk and smells of human decomposition in the trunk.... If I were a juror,I would have a BIG problem right there...I had a problem with that before her precious remains were found, rest her soul...

shoelace · #24 12-20-2008, 08:55 PM

hey guys, as a paramedic I've got to tell you that overdosing on Xanax is pretty tough. if casey gave caylee some to put her asleep that amount, even if a bit too much, wouldn't kill her. you'd really have to administer a ton of it. there may have been a mistake here, but I doubt it. leanord padilla's theories are bunk. casey killed her daughter with malice and forethought to punish cindy. duct tape, web searches, smiling in court and raging at fusian... there was no accident.

period.

shoelace · #25 12-20-2008, 08:57 PM

hey guys, as a paramedic I've got to tell you that overdosing on Xanax is pretty tough. if casey gave caylee some to put her asleep that amount, even if a bit too much, wouldn't kill her. you'd really have to administer a ton of it. there may have been a mistake here, but I doubt it. leanord padilla's theories are bunk. casey killed her daughter with malice and forethought to punish cindy. duct tape, web searches, smiling in court and raging at fusian... there was no accident.

period.