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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #1376  
Old 01-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Woe.be.gone Woe.be.gone is offline
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I'm sorry, I was referring to Keeping it Simple Silly.

Unless there is another person in KC's circle of friends and acquaintances who is as morally bankrupt and totally devoid of all human emotion as she is, no one else was in on KC's secret. How could she ever trust someone never to tell anyone? I don't think she could.

Why would anyone not involved in the murder want to keep such a secret? What could anyone else ever have to gain by keeping this secret? Way back when, there was a reward that was worth over $200,000.00 for the return of Caylee. If someone knew where to find that little body, whatever KC had to offer could not possibly be worth even half the reward that was posted for her return. I think that right there is proof enough, that KC told no one. Add to that, someone else walking around Orlando with access to C & G on the news, someone who would possibly see C or G around town, have to face their pain knowing their little Gbaby was wrapped in a plastic bag, right down the end of their street. I have a hard time believing another person is that cruel.
True, true and true. There you go thinking again! It's possible some fringe criminal type guy, young and stupid, could of helped her, gotten in over his head and was wadding knee deep in the muck and didn't know what to do. Then got scared, etc. It is possible. Probable, I don't know.
  #1377  
Old 01-21-2009, 03:24 AM
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True, true and true. There you go thinking again! It's possible some fringe criminal type guy, young and stupid, could of helped her, gotten in over his head and was wadding knee deep in the muck and didn't know what to do. Then got scared, etc. It is possible. Probable, I don't know.
LOL Now that's not something I get accused of everyday!!

You know if we've learned anything from this crazy case, anything is possible!
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  #1378  
Old 01-21-2009, 02:42 PM
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Question

I know everyone is busy reading the doc's today and hope this post doesn't get lost along the way. I am hoping that one of the great sluethers can crop the picture of the paver that has a red rose. I am curious to see if maybe it was a heart. Perdy please...Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MADJGNLAW View Post
I know everyone is busy reading the doc's today and hope this post doesn't get lost along the way. I am hoping that one of the great sluethers can crop the picture of the paver that has a red rose. I am curious to see if maybe it was a heart. Perdy please...Thanks in advance.

Here...
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:02 PM
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Ok, so others have noticed this as well.
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  #1381  
Old 01-21-2009, 07:02 PM
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That's an interesting angle, but IMO DC doesn't look even remotely interested in that spot. Maybe he is a good actor?
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  #1382  
Old 01-21-2009, 07:06 PM
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Here...
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  #1383  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:16 AM
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As requested by DawnTCB.....in reference to the following post by Princess Rose....

I was watching this video and on Caylee's pink wooden children's table in her bedroom is a red sticker - which I think is a ladybug. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a match for the red sticker that Dominic Casey found on the paver in the flower bed at the abandoned Gonzalez house in the search video from November 15. There was some speculation that it was a rose or heart, but now I think it was a ladybug sticker. What do you all think?

Heres a screencap of Caylees table.

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  #1384  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:59 AM
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I wondered that too ... We know that she went to school with a Zenaida ... and that she had used Zanny for a while in her stories -- with no last name. Maybe she chose Gonzales as the last name since she associated it with the people that lived in that house whom she knew to be derelict in their responsibilities, ie, letting their house run down, stay vacant and likely forclosed. She probably heard her mom complain about the abandoned "Gonzales house," as Cindy might have been worried about it decreasing their property value and marring their pretty little subdivision. So surely someone like that ... gasp... a Gonzales ... would make a good villan in her story!

I wonder about the Fernandez part.
I wonder if KC had any contact with the G's that lived in that house, i.e. went to high school with member or relative of family?
Doesn't seem that the A's really had much contact or closeness with any of the neighbors or neighborhood in general.
But I can see it being casually mentioned at some point that the G's had abandoned their house and moved back to PR, left the property a mess, yadyada, without a specific time frame being mentioned. KC may have overheard this or actually saw that the house was abandoned, knew the name of the owners and therefore incorporated the name into her ZFG story, thinking that CA or LE would connect the name as maybe a relative of the house owners and that would keep LE busy for a while, tracking them down and suspecting them. She just didn't know they had been gone for a year. And she didn't think LE would follow up so quickly on her lies about work, etc, let alone arrest her, all before she could work out the rest of the details and send them on a wild goose chase to PR.
  #1385  
Old 02-02-2009, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
As requested by DawnTCB.....in reference to the following post by Princess Rose....

I was watching this video and on Caylee's pink wooden children's table in her bedroom is a red sticker - which I think is a ladybug. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a match for the red sticker that Dominic Casey found on the paver in the flower bed at the abandoned Gonzalez house in the search video from November 15. There was some speculation that it was a rose or heart, but now I think it was a ladybug sticker. What do you all think?

Heres a screencap of Caylees table.

interesting, not sure if it's a match or not. What video did this come from?
  #1386  
Old 02-02-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MADJGNLAW View Post
I know everyone is busy reading the doc's today and hope this post doesn't get lost along the way. I am hoping that one of the great sluethers can crop the picture of the paver that has a red rose. I am curious to see if maybe it was a heart. Perdy please...Thanks in advance.
That is either a leaf or debris. I don't think it is a sticker at all.
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  #1387  
Old 02-02-2009, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
As requested by DawnTCB.....in reference to the following post by Princess Rose....

I was watching this video and on Caylee's pink wooden children's table in her bedroom is a red sticker - which I think is a ladybug. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a match for the red sticker that Dominic Casey found on the paver in the flower bed at the abandoned Gonzalez house in the search video from November 15. There was some speculation that it was a rose or heart, but now I think it was a ladybug sticker. What do you all think?

Heres a screencap of Caylees table.


I don't know how to add pictures here, but I was able to crop the picture and it is not a rose. It is a read mark/sticker with two eyes. It looks kind of like one of the cartoon bugs, I know I have seen it before and can't for the life of me recall what the name of that bug is. It's not a lady bug either. If your able to crop the picture x 4 you will see the two eyes, it's kinda cute.
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  #1388  
Old 03-27-2009, 08:14 AM
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Ok I just finished listening to the entire deposition of PI Hoover, and I can't believe how little was said about the Brackenwood house? Hoover says that DC took him to the dump site, and then to "another" place they were supposed to look, which also had three pavers in a row, and that DC cut open bags, etc., like we know. But they never asked if there was ever any significance to the house.

IDK, it seems like they asked Hoover so much stuff - we learned in great detail his job history and relationships and who got to eat the pizza he ran out to get periodically, but basically nothing was asked about the Brackenwood house. There were ONLY TWO locations DC ever wanted to look for a deceased Caylee, and one of them we know was legit.

Just wondering if anyone had any new ideas as to why this house is so insignificant?

Also curious if anyone thinks they saw the pavers that Hoover mentions... I saw lots of things I might call "pavers" in that video but nothing that seemed to be lining up right in a row like he said.
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  #1389  
Old 03-27-2009, 10:52 AM
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Thanx Dawn for resurrecting this thread. This house has always stayed with me as a vital clue in this massive puzzle. SO much mystery...so many unanswered questions...

The Hoover deposition would have been the perfect opportunity to inquire more into this mystery. He had to have know something about the house or why DC led them there. I still want to know what, if anything, LE investigated with regard to this house.

HUmmmm....
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  #1390  
Old 03-27-2009, 11:52 AM
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Do we know how much Morgan is working with OCSO? I have to imagine at least some... because although he could use some pretty crazy logic to validate his reasons for asking some of the questions he did, it was obvious to me that the majority of what he asked REALLY had nothing to do with the ZFG case.

If he was asking questions Orange County wanted the answers to, maybe they told him he didn't need to pursue why they were at the Brackenwood house. Everyone is very interested in why they made the first stop at the dump site... but no one (apparently) cares why they went to this house.

I care! This house, and how KC knew Z(F)G was at Sawgrass are the two mysteries that confound me most about this case. If they do end up being able to depose DC, I sure hope they ask him something about this house. Apparently the mysterious tipster told them to go there - specifically there - not just wander the neighborhood looking for three-paver-formations. There has to be a reason, even if it ended up being bad information. They were told to go there, and not by a psychic.

BTW, my theory now is that LA told the DC these two locations. I think he riddled them out from clues from KC, but he wasn't sure which one or if neither would be right. I think that after the body was found and the PIs claimed they had already searched there, DC spilled to the police who his tipster was, then LE asked LA and he admitted it. Thus the police knew that the Brackenwood house was just a wrong guess, and could also make that vague statement that LA "knows what he did". Still in my heart I believe LA told KC he would get rid of the "evidence" but was intending to tell police if they found the body. I know others disagree with me about his intentions, but I think he will testify about the Brackenwood house as an inaccurate guess he made based on KC's vague details provided to him.
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  #1391  
Old 03-27-2009, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnTCB View Post
BTW, my theory now is that LA told the DC these two locations. I think he riddled them out from clues from KC, but he wasn't sure which one or if neither would be right. I think that after the body was found and the PIs claimed they had already searched there, DC spilled to the police who his tipster was, then LE asked LA and he admitted it. Thus the police knew that the Brackenwood house was just a wrong guess, and could also make that vague statement that LA "knows what he did". Still in my heart I believe LA told KC he would get rid of the "evidence" but was intending to tell police if they found the body. I know others disagree with me about his intentions, but I think he will testify about the Brackenwood house as an inaccurate guess he made based on KC's vague details provided to him.
Your theory definitely makes sense, but what I can't quite wrap my head around would be that at that stage of the game that LA had knowledge of Caylee being dead, that KC killed her, and would be able to do such a thing as actively enlist someone else's assistance in destroying or tampering with evidence? And have them videotape it? I know people do extraordinary things in times of stress, but he knew the whole country was watching his family. It just seems like a huge risk to take, and LA just doesn't seem to be that kind of person. JMO
  #1392  
Old 03-27-2009, 12:36 PM
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I do thank you for finding this thread. I had looked for it and decided it may just be gone. I do believe this house is of extreme importance and plays a part in this.
  #1393  
Old 03-27-2009, 12:43 PM
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It's the three pavers at each location that puzzles me. It seems that the three pavers were marking a spot at each place and the "tipster" told DC to look for these "clues." Could there have been "evidence" hidden at both locations? Perhaps the flooding caused movement/spreading of the evidence in the wooden area and made it difficult to find. Perhaps the evidence hidden at the house was found by the "tipster" or someone else and removed much earlier than mid November? Just a wild guess!
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  #1394  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:01 PM
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Your theory definitely makes sense, but what I can't quite wrap my head around would be that at that stage of the game that LA had knowledge of Caylee being dead, that KC killed her, and would be able to do such a thing as actively enlist someone else's assistance in destroying or tampering with evidence? And have them videotape it? I know people do extraordinary things in times of stress, but he knew the whole country was watching his family. It just seems like a huge risk to take, and LA just doesn't seem to be that kind of person. JMO

I just keep thinking that LA was probably the only person in the world that KC might have trusted enough to tell the location to, and he knew it. I think that was the motivation behind his "own investigation" from the start. She was clearly not going to be allowed to tell LE anything, even if she had wanted to, which she apparently didn't. She wasn't going to tell GA or CA. LA was the only one.

Another poster in another thread posited that LA may have passed her a note one day while she was home saying something like "I can't help clear up this mess if you don't give me some details" and that she might have responded with a map of some type (with something perhaps in the "lower left"). This map would have been vague enough to keep from incriminating her should LA turn traitor on her, and I think it was vague enough that LA was clearly not definite about where she meant.

If he *did* have some information and riddled out these two possible locations she might have meant, I think he probably handled this one part just as I would have. He could not tell LE at that point, because if the information was wrong, inaccurate, or misinterpreted, and KC found out he had told them he had info from her, then he would have lost all chance of ever getting anything else from her about the location of Caylee. Given that he was the only person who could get that information, I think it was critical that he stay on her "good side". What he needed was someone to go check these locations and see for him, and THEN notify LE. I think he tried RK first. and then his mom's trusted PI buddy DC. I don't know if he expected Hoover to go or videotape it, but I have pondered from time to time if the tape might have been used for KC to look at to determine if they were in the right spot. I don't believe he thought DC would go all crazy slicing bags and stabbing the ground with his probe. I think he thought they would go, look, see the bag, call the cops, end of story. I can't imagine he would think he could convince two PIs to commit or become accessories to a felony for him. He just needed someone to verify it was there for him so they could end the whole "circus".

I wish Morgan would have asked Hoover about the history of that tape. We know Hoover took the video, but then what? Clearly Hoover thinks LA's attorney saw it soon thereafter... how? When did Hoover release the tape to someone else, and who did he give it to? How did he get it back?

So many unanswered questions about that November day...
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  #1395  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:43 PM
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I do thank you for finding this thread. I had looked for it and decided it may just be gone. I do believe this house is of extreme importance and plays a part in this.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. When we found the house and Marello went there with Kathi B the neighbors were surprised that someone was looking at the house which tells me that LE hadn't been there.

Now, we find the house, I emailed KB, she went down there and broke the story. That is the last we had heard of the house. There have been no more stories in the media, LE certainly didn't go tear the house apart looking for evidence because we would have seen it. This tells me that the house is of no importance to the case. While it was a titillating thought, I'm thinking that Hoover and DC just went over there to poke around just because.

If this house was of importance to the case, it would have been processed by the CSI and there would have been media all over it. The only media coverage of this house was KB's one and only report on it. While it was exciting doing the sleuthing on it and then seeing the actual place reported on due to our tips, I'm afraid it really didn't mean anything in the big picture.

JMHO as always.
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  #1396  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:47 PM
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Does anyone remember when the Anthony's changed the pavers in their back yard?
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:47 PM
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Well, for goodness sakes, why hasn't anybody asked JH why the heck they were at that house? He was filming....does anybody actually believe he didn't once say "hey, DC, just why are we here poking holes in old garbabe bags?"!!!!!???
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:19 PM
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I agree with this:
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Originally Posted by ecs5298 View Post
This tells me that the house is of no importance to the case. .
I don't agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs5298 View Post
I'm thinking that Hoover and DC just went over there to poke around just because..
The PIs went there, according to Hoover's testimony, because the same tipster told DC both places to look. They went to both places at least twice based on this same information.

This alleged tipster must have had some serious validity to DC, because he has said these were the only two locations that he (or anyone in the family, to his knowledge) looked for a deceased Caylee. Hoover also said he understood that all along DC believed Caylee was alive. No random tip was going to go make him look in these two spots. Psychics, crimeline callers, even TES had "tips" that there might be remains in various locations, but DC never, apparently, followed up on any of those tips. Nor did the existence of those tips apparently ever sway him from the belief that they were searching for a live Caylee. Until this one tipster.



I don't think the house is important to the case - you are correct that LE, FBI, and probably the entire cast of CSI Miami would have been swarming the place if it was. I do not think that LE would ignore it if it had any shred of possible validity. There are only two things important about it as far as I am concerned:
  1. Why did DC go there
  2. Why was LE almost immediately sure it meant nothing
LE, in my opinion, could not have disregarded this scene unless they were rock solid on why DC searched there. In order to be rock solid, they would have needed to find out his tipster and question them. If the tipster was sufficiently believable, only then could they decide this location was not involved in this crime. They would have no reason to just take DC at his word, I don't think. If DC could not or would not provide evidence of who sent him there, I think LE would have had to investigate it, just to be sure.

Some people have suggested that LE didn't go there because their case is strong enough without that house, but I disagree. They still don't (to our knowledge) have a firm date/time/location/manner of death. If they had any suspicion that DC was led there to hide, remove, or otherwise destroy some evidence at the Brackenwood house, they would have had to go there and secure the scene and examine what was left. They didn't, so I think that they know for a fact why he was there and that it was simply an incorrect location option, not something meaningful to this crime.
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:26 PM
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Does anyone remember when the Anthony's changed the pavers in their back yard?
I believe it was fourth of July holiday weekend.

I know the pavers were completely different from the ones at the crime scene. The ones at the A's house (you can find pictures in another thread) were what I would consider "decorative pavers" - made for a nice patio. The ones at the crime scene were what I would consider more "industrial", such as you might pave a small loading dock. I saw some pavers which were very similar to the crime scene pavers at a rest area a few weeks ago around the picnic tables. Not pretty, but functional.

I don't think I have seen the alleged pavers at the Brackenwood house. I hate to go watch that footage again but maybe I will.
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TotallyObsessed View Post
Well, for goodness sakes, why hasn't anybody asked JH why the heck they were at that house? He was filming....does anybody actually believe he didn't once say "hey, DC, just why are we here poking holes in old garbabe bags?"!!!!!???
Oh, I am sure LE asked him. I just wish Morgan would have asked him so we could know.

Hoover said he did ask DC why they were doing this, and DC referenced this tipster. Hoover said he asked a few times who the tipster was but eventually it became evident to him that DC wasn't going to tell him so he stopped asking. Hoover also said he thought DC was "showboating", and that he himself didn't really believe they were going to find anything at either location.
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