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  #1  
Old 02-09-2009, 10:56 AM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Utah killer kills on Feb 9th, 2006 and 2008

LE is worried about today. But I think 2010 would fit the pattern. How scary in any case.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/09/...ary/index.html
Utah cities on alert as anniversary of 2 slayings hits

Story Highlights
Police: Evidence links killings that happened on same date two years apart
Monday is anniversary of slayings, which occurred in neighboring Utah cities
No arrest has been made; police investigating whether date is significant
Both victims were Hispanic women, found dead in their apartments

Last edited by SuziQ; 02-09-2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Remove gobbledygook
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:50 AM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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I saw a comment on a local article that Ted Bundy's last victim was murdered on Feb 9th, 1978. Sure enough it's true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

(snip)
On February 9, 1978, Bundy traveled to Lake City, Florida. While there, he abducted, raped, and murdered 12-year-old Kimberly Leach
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2009, 12:14 PM
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Yikes....this is frightening...I hope someone comes forward with info...and I hope this serial killer (if it is indeed the same person) isn't praying on this community because they know people will not report them because of their immigration status. Very sad. Glad they put it out there that they do not care about their legal status.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:16 PM
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Oh. I'm going to do a little digging and see why else this date could be significant (SuziQ, quite scary he picked Bundy's last victim's DOD)...

Found only one Obit so far that was a woman who died on Feb. 9 of 2004 SHERLENE S. MORDUE

http://files.usgwarchives.org/ut/box...nj-feb2004.txt

(Going on the assumption that whatever the date means to this person was either in 2004 or 2005..but since the person skipped a year (either intentionally, or unintentionally) they could have been incarcerated, in the hospital, etc. I'm guessing it was because they were unable to do it..not because they chose not to. They should check out everyone in Jail on that date last year...Hope the police look for those links...

Here is a link for some cases filed on Feb. 9, 2006 in Utah: http://www.lexisone.com/lx1/caselaws...0006-2006.html
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2009, 12:51 PM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Originally Posted by Truthful Lies View Post
Yikes....this is frightening...I hope someone comes forward with info...and I hope this serial killer (if it is indeed the same person) isn't praying on this community because they know people will not report them because of their immigration status. Very sad. Glad they put it out there that they do not care about their legal status.
Good finds! I've been trying to think of what the trigger is. Birth, death, marriage, divorce. I found the year skipped interesting.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2009, 12:52 PM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Another thought I had about the skipped year is a murder took place in another state.
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2009, 01:49 PM
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Cool - I found something that hit a couple of different things about these cases...

"After the February 9, 1985 murder of Enrique Camarena, an undercover agent for the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Reagan administration pressures Mexican authorities to take action."

Now, since this suspect is thought to be in late teens, early twenties...could this killer be the son/family of someone involved in this?

Check out this article: (I can't do the tiny URL at worK): http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...-from-tijuana/

I don't want to assume that the women were Mexican just because it says many in the community are illegal...but it would make sense given the location of Utah in proximity to the border and that both victims were Latina.

I dunno. Just grasping for dates...there are a couple of incidents on that link that have Feb. 9th as a common date.

SuziQ, good idea on looking for something in another state..I'm looking now. I do honestly believe that the person skipped 2007 because he was prevented from it....hospital/jail records would be really great to get a look at...see who fits descriptions, etc.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:01 PM
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Forgive me if this info is irrelevant or extraneous...but I'm very bothered by this case and for the women who are in fear for their lives....I'm reaching, but trying! =)

There is a list on Wiki on February 9th with births, deaths, and events on this day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Februar...nd_observances

The only thing that stuck out to me was: "Ansbert of Rouen[1] (died 695) was a Frankish Benedictine abbot, bishop and Catholic saint.

Born at Chaussy-sur-Epte, tradition states that Ansbert was engaged to marriage to Saint Angadrisma before this saint became a nun. He served as chancellor at the court of Clotaire III. He became a monk and abbot of Fontenelle Abbey.

He then became bishop of Rouen, as the successor of Ouen. However, he was exiled by Pepin of Heristal. He went to the monastery of Hautmont where he stayed until his death.

His feast day is 9 February."

Catholic....could this killer have been jilted by his fiancee becoming a nun? Taking it out on other women?
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:02 PM
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Could be a revenge or send a message killing. This is starting to feel like a needle in a haystack.....
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:04 PM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Truthful lies, you are coming up with good stuff. I started looking at Feb 9th and immediately went cross eyed.
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:05 PM
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Have any ideas on how common it is for a murderer to reoffend because of a certain date, on a certain date?
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:05 PM
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I agree, SuziQ..the more I research it and think about it....I think you are correct. Sorry for the reach with the Saint, but I'm picking my brain here....killer is prob. not as smart as I'm thinking.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
Have any ideas on how common it is for a murderer to reoffend because of a certain date, on a certain date?
Let's see what we can find....be back in a jiffy
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:33 PM
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Having trouble finding anything on it....but fiction novels keep popping up about it....a couple about murders on the same date each year...but I doubt that's going to lead anywhere...this serial killer demonstrates control...not impulsive (unless there are a bunch that we don't know about), and with a sexual aspect...from what I've read, the killer is most likely intelligent, then. Hmm. Makes it harder when they aren't impulsive =P
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:44 PM
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I wonder if the 2 murdered women could be linked? Work, church, same landscapers at their apt complexs, etc? They lived one mile apart. One was 57 the other was 29...I wonder if they were the same build/hair color etc. Both showed no forced entry into home. Someone they knew or someone who had reason to be at both places?

News/Media should be running stories on the jewelry on the 2nd victim, may get some leads.

Quote:
a ruby ring, a diamond ring and a medallion of Our Lady of Guadalupe fastened to a gold necklace
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2009, 03:00 PM
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I was wondering the same, Christine...however, I think the "no forced entry" is the most important clue....why would these women, alone, answer the door to a stranger?

She wouldn't, unless there was something that biologically compelled her...most likely a child or baby crying? We've seen that before...it would have to be something that would alarm them...or perhaps the perp used their/a child to knock on the door? Something made these women open their doors, and I doubt it was because they knew their killer...hmm..I dunno.

The only way I'd open my door was if I saw an actual child in my peephole...but peephole's leave room for someone to be standing off to the side. Just a thought.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2009, 03:22 PM
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Well maybe he/she timed it so they could get in without forcibly entering.

Seems like 2010 would be the next date, unless something kept that from happening in 2007. Weird coincidence this one?
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2009, 03:27 PM
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i wonder if the killer skipped that year or if the body just wasn't found on that day. or perhaps it looked like natural causes.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2009, 08:11 PM
SuziQ SuziQ is offline
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Originally Posted by Truthful Lies View Post
I was wondering the same, Christine...however, I think the "no forced entry" is the most important clue....why would these women, alone, answer the door to a stranger?

She wouldn't, unless there was something that biologically compelled her...most likely a child or baby crying? We've seen that before...it would have to be something that would alarm them...or perhaps the perp used their/a child to knock on the door? Something made these women open their doors, and I doubt it was because they knew their killer...hmm..I dunno.

The only way I'd open my door was if I saw an actual child in my peephole...but peephole's leave room for someone to be standing off to the side. Just a thought.
I don't know about the Latino community here. But people in Utah in general are very trusting and don't lock their doors. They also answer doors to anyone. I don't even go to the door if I'm not expecting someone let alone answer it. I've always gotten teased about that. But I was raised in L.A. so I'm super paranoid and lock everything up tight. It would be interesting to know what the victim's habits were regarding that.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christine2448 View Post
I wonder if the 2 murdered women could be linked? Work, church, same landscapers at their apt complexs, etc? They lived one mile apart. One was 57 the other was 29...I wonder if they were the same build/hair color etc. Both showed no forced entry into home. Someone they knew or someone who had reason to be at both places?

News/Media should be running stories on the jewelry on the 2nd victim, may get some leads.
Our Lady of Guadalupe is a cult in Mexico and also is associated with Santeria and Saint Mercedes. So i'm guessing the victim found with the medallion of Our Lady of Guadalupe was Mexican, as often the are Catholic there. Santeria is spun off of Catholicism.
Was there any known jewelry found on the other victim? Which victim was the jewelry found on? Was it the pregnant woman?
This is certainly disturbing; same date same M.O.

Here's a link about Our Lady of Guadalupe:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...y-of-Guadalupe

"The Virgin of Guadalupe is a cultural symbol of significant importance to the Mexican identity. Mexican Catholics believe that Guadalupe was a manifestation of the Virgin Mary in the Americas."
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MeoW333 View Post
Santeria is spun off of Catholicism.
Actually, Santeria is part Carribean, part Catholic, and part Native American. Perhaps a better word would be a "merging" of the three. And even then, it was because those of Carribean origin were converted to Christianity a long time ago.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
Have any ideas on how common it is for a murderer to reoffend because of a certain date, on a certain date?

I believe Dennis Rader (BTK) did this at least once. I have to go to my books to check the details.
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  #23  
Old 02-10-2009, 07:15 AM
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Our Lady of Guadalupe is a cult in Mexico and also is associated with Santeria and Saint Mercedes. .
Great connection, MeoW....
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:16 AM
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I don't know about the Latino community here. But people in Utah in general are very trusting and don't lock their doors....
Ahh...okay...thanks for the info SuziQ...I was raised in Miami!! lol - you locked your door as soon as you went in/out of it...no matter what!!!! =)
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:44 AM
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Actually, Santeria is part Carribean, part Catholic, and part Native American. Perhaps a better word would be a "merging" of the three. And even then, it was because those of Carribean origin were converted to Christianity a long time ago.
Very true, Soobs, thank you for the better explanation

It's the "merging" of ancient African Gods assimilated to Catholic Saints. I'm not sure about the Native American part, how is that merged into Santeria as well? I think the Brazil variant is Condomble and Umbanda.

Last edited by MeoW333; 02-10-2009 at 07:53 AM. Reason: add on
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