2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test? - Page 2

Mumsy · #26 03-15-2009, 10:24 AM

WOW!!! This is just what I needed to hear. After watching that scene in court with the lovely LKB, and the subsequent press meeting after court, I was beginning to feel as though this case just might confuse a jury so much with all of her "teachings" to the judge and jury that some juror might just fall victim to her superior expertise.......and throw a kink into the verdict..............

PLEASE WAIT TILL I PULL MY TONGUE OUT OF MY CHEEK

Tracey276 · #27 03-15-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manatee

Did Dr. Baden mentioned his opinion if test results were irrelevant like Dr. Perper said?

Manatee,

No, Dr. Baden actually said just the opposite and that it was VERY relevant.

Mumsy · #28 03-15-2009, 10:29 AM

My question is.....does chloroform show up in hair folicles? Would it show up if it was administered on a regular basis?? And can it be determined for how long it was given??

manatee · #29 03-15-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracey276

Manatee,

No, Dr. Baden actually said just the opposite and that it was VERY relevant.

BondJamesBond · #30 03-15-2009, 10:31 AM

FWIW, IMHO, this 'slip of the tongue' by Baden would not be spontaneous...rather, it would be the beginning of the defense sowing the "it was an accident" defense when the ZFG thing completely unravels @ trial.

Baden first advanced his accidental o.d back in Sep '08....before his wife was enlisted in the defense.

manatee · #31 03-15-2009, 10:31 AM

Just emailed Kathy B just in case the media did not catch it.

CBTampa · #32 03-15-2009, 10:33 AM

Another piece of the puzzle is fitting, isn't it? If this true and LE does have those kind of results, it throws accidential out the window. You don't mess around with chemicals with a child. It makes sense why JB is interested in RM and his computer. I bet that KC has instilled his motive to be jealousy. That he was so upset over KC new relationship that he framed her for Caylee's death. IMO

Mermaid · #33 03-15-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracey276

I really hope someone else watched Geraldo last night and saw this too. It's driving me crazy. I think we may have a "true" bombshell. Or else I am crazy and everyone else has heard about this and I missed it. But I know if it has come out before or is not new, here is the place to post and find out.

Did anyone watch Geraldo last night, where he did the special on Anna Nicole Smith? He had on Dr. Baden and Dr. Perper to discuss the autopsy and the toxicology examination of Anna Nicole. Geraldo had asked Dr. Perper if he had done hair screening of Anna Nicole to get her drug history, as it stays in the hair and you can get a lot of information from the hair. Dr. Perper said no, because it's totally irrelevant.
When Geraldo heard him say it was irrelevant, he was stunned and told Perper to hold on. He then asked Dr. Baden, Is it totally irrelevant, if a drug overdose is in play, is it totally irrelevant to test her hair, in the way they tested, uh, poor Caylee Anthony's, the baby's hair? And Dr. Baden says, Uh, yea where they found chloroform in the baby's hair.
He then went on and answered the questions about Anna. I had taped this and rewound at least five times to get the exact words he said to get it right.

Ok, here's my question, did we see anywhere yet in discovery that they found chloroform in Caylee's hair? I don't think that has been released anywhere I've read. So, Me's thinking, Old, Dr. B, may have just opened foot and inserted directly yo mouth. What do you think? I even rewound it like 5 times, just to make sure I got it in context. It certainly sounds to me like he knew, as fact, there was chloroform in Caylee's hair. If that is true, that means, Caylee had ingested Chloroform at some time. I don't think just being in the trunk with it would show up in her hair follicles.

Can anyone tell me what can all me told from the hair testing, IF it was in fact in her hair test? Will it show if it was more than one time or how much? Or will it just show as in her system?

I thought this was big enough to make a thread and also quite a "bombshell" IMO, if this is true and hasn't been out yet.

Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot as this came out a long time ago and I didn't hear it.

Video added: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fZsd--Y2Hk

good catch! yes, I did hear it, and it flew right past me, I was thinking about Anna Nicole. You were on your toes!

Doodlelover · #34 03-15-2009, 10:35 AM

I'm sure LE tested the hair or hairs of Caylee's found in the car and also the hair's on the duct tape and if indeed they tested for cholorform, this is the reason LE stated a while back that they think Caylee's death was intentional.

The autopsy didn't give us COD so I have been wondering what evidence LE has to claim they know it was intentional.

IMO, proof of chloroform in Caylee's system proves it.

Marina2 · #35 03-15-2009, 10:50 AM

Baden went on to say that drugs found in one's hair is NOT relevant to a COD inquiry but IS relevant to show a history of use of a drug. If chloroform was found in Caylee's hair it will point to a history of it being used on her. This would be very damning for the defense.

MarleneM · #36 03-15-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBTampa

Another piece of the puzzle is fitting, isn't it? If this true and LE does have those kind of results, it throws accidential out the window. You don't mess around with chemicals with a child. It makes sense why JB is interested in RM and his computer. I bet that KC has instilled his motive to be jealousy. That he was so upset over KC new relationship that he framed her for Caylee's death. IMO

I agree, and I for one can't wait to see RM get up on the stand to defend himself while looking straight at KC as he lists every single reason why she is a lying spiteful *itch. Anything she thinks she has on him, I bet he has double on her as well as plenty of friends in his corner after they all compared notes.

Baznme · #37 03-15-2009, 10:52 AM

IMO, KC had to have been administering chloroform over a period of time - long enough to allow the chemical to show itself not only in the hair follicle, but the hair growth. The experts can even tell the approximate length of time the chemical was being given according to the amount of hair growth that shows chloroform AND in what concentrations at various stages. These tests have long been proven to be accurate.

manatee · #38 03-15-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarleneM

I agree, and I for one can't wait to see RM get up on the stand to defend himself while looking straight at KC as he lists every single reason why she is a lying spiteful *itch. Anything she thinks she has on him, I bet he has double on her as well as plenty of friends in his corner after they all compared notes.

I agree! and even if we conted that RM could have been the perp, that still leaves KC covering for him and not telling investigators what she knew...so it makes her an accomplice at the very least.

suki · #39 03-15-2009, 10:59 AM

Oh my! Bombshell news and we heard it here FIRST (as we do with other interesting tidbits) - thanks to Tracey! I can't wait to see how they will try to straighten this slip-up out.

BondJamesBond · #40 03-15-2009, 11:01 AM

...adding...just an extension of the "Todd Black" oopsie late last year...

Tracey276 · #41 03-15-2009, 11:04 AM

Manatee,

Will you PLEASE let me know if she responds to your email? I'd LOVE to hear her response.

Thanks

BondJamesBond · #42 03-15-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baznme

IMO, KC had to have been administering chloroform over a period of time - long enough to allow the chemical to show itself not only in the hair follicle, but the hair growth. The experts can even tell the approximate length of time the chemical was being given according to the amount of hair growth that shows chloroform AND in what concentrations at various stages. These tests have long been proven to be accurate.

Not trying to be argumentative at all...

But, wouldn't the ME's report have indicated something regarding chloroform as likely COD if this information was truly available via forensics on the hair???

I understand "in" the hair would mean peri-mortem...so...a technicality?

I'm just sayin'...

CBTampa · #43 03-15-2009, 11:07 AM

If I am not mistaken, RM deleted the advertisment for chloroform off of his computer the day that KC was arrested. I thought it was odd at the time and now I wonder why. Anyone else?

amethyst221 · #44 03-15-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

Baden went on to say that drugs found in one's hair is NOT relevant to a COD inquiry but IS relevant to show a history of use of a drug. If chloroform was found in Caylee's hair it will point to a history of it being used on her. This would be very damning for the defense.

Exactly. This is what the talk was at the time Dr. G released her results and conclusions. At this stage, hair could only show that there was in fact some past exposure to a substance. It wouldn't be possible to determine specific dosage, when, etc. It seems to me Dr. B misstates the facts of this case sometimes, so I'll be interested to see if this gets confirmed.

And the defense whines about leaks!!!

Jolynna · #45 03-15-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manatee

Did Dr. Baden mentioned his opinion if test results were irrelevant like Dr. Perper said?

He thinks that the hair tests ARE relevant.

A couple of months back Baden was floating an accidental chloroform overdose theory. He said that it was common for young mothers to use chloroform as a babysitter. (IMO, it is impossible because of how chloroform has to be administered and I challenge Dr. Baden to cite ONE instance where anyone has ever done it.)

But, this isn't the first time Baden has brought chloroform up. It hasn't come up in discovery. But, it is obviously out there and even a month ago Baden was trying to do damage control by saying it was an accident.

IMO

Marina2 · #46 03-15-2009, 11:15 AM

If this is true, it could shed new light on why CA was so reluctant to give LE Caylee's hair brush. They probably couldn't do toxicology on the small amount of Caylee's hair found in the trunk. They had to preserve the "death band" hair for evidence. With speculation of drug use on Caylee, CA didn't want to give up hair to be used for toxicology. She knew KC was capable of this.
A lock of Caylee's hair was taken during the last SW at the house as well as ALL hairbrushes.

Marina2 · #47 03-15-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BondJamesBond

Not trying to be argumentative at all...

But, wouldn't the ME's report have indicated something regarding chloroform as likely COD if this information was truly available via forensics on the hair???

I understand "in" the hair would mean peri-mortem...so...a technicality?

I'm just sayin'...

IIRC, toxicology reports weren't back at the time of the ME's presser. The ME did say that toxicology on the hair wouldn't likely be helpful to show COD. Probably because it will show a history of use only. She would not be able to make the jump to this being the cause of death. IMO, that would be the prosecution's job at trial.

gastew · #48 03-15-2009, 11:22 AM

Web Sleuthers doing what you do best! way to go!

watcher9 · #49 03-15-2009, 11:26 AM

I didn't watch the show, but did watch the clip that was posted. Assuming Geraldo (and NG) already knows the answers to questions he asks, I think G had talked to DrB before broadcast and was set to show the world that he was going to help the Casey defense. When he asked the question to prove that the hair analysis didn't matter, he already knew the answer DrB would give. So, with the next question (do you mean-are you saying?) he added Caylee's name in it thinking that DrB would say it was the same with KC case also, but DrB actually broke the case wide open. It backfired on G and I'll bet he's in hot water now with JB.

ThoughtElf · #50 03-15-2009, 11:33 AM

I hate to say this because of Caylee, but please, please, please let this be true so that there is justice for Caylee.

*brain fart: is there any way chloroform could be absorbed into hair after death? Or only through the roots, meaning it must have been administered before Caylee died?*

And on which hair? The ones found in the trunk with decomp? Or the hair from Caylee's remains?