2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test?

[per_curiam]

Back in the early 1970s, our biology class in college was expected to gather a "bug" collection. We were told to go to the instructor and get our CHLOROFORM and cotton balls to keep in a bottle to kill the insect once we'd caught it. Now, I can't even remember how I did that (killed the insect w/the chloroform), but I did it and had a nice collection of butterflies, moths, bugs galore.

Mostly, I would use this opportunity to get to go galavanting with a cute guy. They loved to ask the girl: "Would you like to go bug-hunting with me Saturday out in the nature preserve (woods!). Oh YEAH!

The chloroform was volatile, evaporated easily. I even sniffed it for a brief moment. I can't recall the smell now, either. I'm still alive.

Now, the defense might use this little bit of info: chloroform is released when you combine clenaing products that are labeled "antibacterial", such as the Soft Soap, with BLEACH.

Notice how the labels in tiny print read, do not combine with bleach. No one ever sees that! But the defense may use that in desperation, saying that KC's "cleaning products" in her trunk combined to form chloroform. Lame, isn't it?

[Jolynna]

I don't believe Casey had been administering chloroform for a long period of time. To administer chloroform with a rag safely you have to do it drips at a time. Each dose only lasts about 15 minutes.

Third world country veterinarians use chloroform on large animals. They use a mask which mixes the chloroform with gas (diluting it) and controls the dosage.

Chloroform might be a good date rape drug. But, it wouldn't work as a babysitter because you'd have to stay at the child's head dripping drops every 15 minutes to keep the child asleep.

If Casey used it, she did it once and did it wrong. She wouldn't have put the duct tape over into Caylee's hair if she thought the duct tape was going to ever come off. Taxidermists and small town animal shelters still use chloroform as an inexpensive way to euthanize. You can find pages all over the web on how to use chloroform for that. You won't find a single site or example of how to use chloroform for a babysitter.

JMO

[Tracey276]

Originally Posted by watcher9

I didn't watch the show, but did watch the clip that was posted. Assuming Geraldo (and NG) already knows the answers to questions he asks, I think G had talked to DrP before broadcast and was set to show the world that he was going to help the Casey defense. When he asked the question to prove that the hair analysis didn't matter, he already knew the answer DrP would give. So, with the next question (do you mean-are you saying?) he added Caylee's name in it thinking that DrP would say it was the same with KC case also, but DrP actually broke the case wide open. It backfired on G and I'll bet he's in hot water now with JB.

Well, actually, it was Dr. Baden that broke this case wide open, IMO. Dr Perper was defending the scenario of NOT taking a hair follicle test in the A.N. Smith case, and then Dr. Baden was the one who said hair follicle testing is relevant in showing a drugs use history, presence in the hair testing. And then added his oops, to G about uh, yea finding the Chloroform in Caylee's hair. Dr. B, Jose, Dr. Lee, all these idiots really should just stop going on these shows to be "experts". Everytime they do, they either sound like putzes or stick a foot in their mouth.

[BondJamesBond]

To help stay on-topic for this thread ...and for easier reference later...in-depth discussion of chloroform is here.

[whiteangora]

I posted about this last night in the rumor thread, since it came from Dr Baden's mouth, I am very suspicious due to his other remarks about this case thus far.

[per_curiam]

All I know is, we caught the insects in our net, brought out our chloroformed cotton ball, put the insect and chloroformed cotton ball into a small container w/a lid, and voila, the insect died. Then we could take a straight pin and pin the insect onto our collection board.

I can't believe I did that!! Nowdays, I would not even kill a butterfly. Naive life back then, with colleges trusting kids w/chloroform.

[Jolynna]

Originally Posted by whiteangora

I posted about this last night in the rumor thread, since it came from Dr Baden's mouth, I am very suspicious due to his other remarks about this case thus far.

Dr. Baden did float an accidental overdose of chloroform theory a couple of months back.

My opinion is that Dr. Baden knew something then. It didn't come up out of the blue.

Maybe Dr. Baden didn't slip? What if he put the information out there to pressure the prosecution into releasing the scientific evidence to confirm or deny? The experts can't do a proper job of disproving or refuting without all the facts.

Baez has been throwing hissy fits and filing motion after motion trying to get more scientific evidence into his experts hands.

JMO

[Jolynna]

Originally Posted by BondJamesBond

To help stay on-topic for this thread ...and for easier reference later...in-depth discussion of chloroform is here.

I brought up my chloroform points because of speculation that Casey had been dosing Caylee with chloroform over a long period of time.

At the in-depth chloroform discussion are lots of links showing why Casey probably only used the chloroform once if she used it.

[Where's Andre]

Originally Posted by Patty G

Dr. Baden on Geraldo mentioning Cholorform in Caylee's Hair ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fZsd--Y2Hk

LOL-- There actually IS a guy called Dr. Perper! All this time, I thought mention of him was slang for a generic forensic Dr. for hire for the perpetrator!

OMG-- my mistake cracks me up. I thought it was word-play on Dr. Pepper.

[Hot Dogs]

I'm not sure that he didn't say... "...where they found chloroform and the baby's hair." Both possible versions ("in" or "and") suit the context of the question (from GR) as a reply.

Dr. Baden is speaking rather rapidly in that response, and in that situation it is difficult for me to decide if he actually said "in" or "and". In rapid speech, the word "and" can be contracted to 'n.

Take your pick:

1) "chloroform in the baby's hair"

2) "chloroform and the baby's hair"

3) "chloroform 'n the baby's hair"


Wasn't Dr. Baden the one who said that Caylee's bones were in the bag (sounding as if he meant that all her bones were in the bag)?

[marla]

Originally Posted by manatee

Just emailed Kathy B just in case the media did not catch it.

*hugs*

Good thinking!

[lin]

Originally Posted by Jolynna

I don't believe Casey had been administering chloroform for a long period of time. To administer chloroform with a rag safely you have to do it drips at a time. Each dose only lasts about 15 minutes.

Third world country veterinarians use chloroform on large animals. They use a mask which mixes the chloroform with gas (diluting it) and controls the dosage.

Chloroform might be a good date rape drug. But, it wouldn't work as a babysitter because you'd have to stay at the child's head dripping drops every 15 minutes to keep the child asleep.

If Casey used it, she did it once and did it wrong. She wouldn't have put the duct tape over into Caylee's hair if she thought the duct tape was going to ever come off. Taxidermists and small town animal shelters still use chloroform as an inexpensive way to euthanize. You can find pages all over the web on how to use chloroform for that. You won't find a single site or example of how to use chloroform for a babysitter.

JMO

You are more than likely correct that she did it once and it resulted in Caylee's death. But I'm reminded of way back when, before people knew better, some parents would put alcohol into an infant's bottle to get them to sleep, which I wouldn't put past KC either. I also recall being told that as an infant, my dear dad would sometimes hold my eyes closed* to get me to go to sleep. Given this, I think it's possible that KC may have given Caylee just a bit to get her over the edge to sleep so that KC could then leave or so that Caylee would go to sleep in strange places so KC could party. It's also possible that with the intent to leave her in the trunk or whatever, KC gave a larger dose so it would last longer and/or as is more likely, imo, as a permanent resolution.

*NOTE: Despite the picture that may form in one's mind, it was not in any type of frustrated or cruel way. I am told that I didn't cry or get upset but would be comforted and go to sleep. He was very gentle, kind and always a comforting presence to me, as far back as I can remember.

[Doodlelover]

Originally Posted by PotatoHead

I hate to say this because of Caylee, but please, please, please let this be true so that there is justice for Caylee.

*brain fart: is there any way chloroform could be absorbed into hair after death? Or only through the roots, meaning it must have been administered before Caylee died?*

And on which hair? The ones found in the trunk with decomp? Or the hair from Caylee's remains?

I think they would have checked the hair from the trunk, the hair from the brush they got after CA gave them the wrong one and also from the duct tape. I think they would be able to tell especially from the brush if there had been any prolonged usage of chloroform. If its negative and the hair from the duct tape is positive then they know it may have been a one time or short term thing.

[Betty Boop]

I caught the Geraldo show while channel surfing late last night and heard Dr. Baden's chloroform comment. I detected a slight loss of verbal momentum right after the comment. Faux pas or double agent speak? The talking heads all have an agenda.

[Kathy1964]

In Dr. Badens reply, can anyone tell the exact word/words he said here ........?

"I think ........ they found chloroform in the baby's hair"

I listed 10 times and am still not sure. It could change the whole meaning of the sentence.
Thanks !

[Paladine]

A Baden flashback to Sept. 4th, 2008....

Investigators won't confirm reports that they found traces of chloroform in the truck of Casey Anthony's car. A criminal expert told Eyewitness News that he believes the child's mother may have used chloroform to knock her child out

"Chloroform would have to be investigated, because that's a potential cause of death," Dr. Michael Baden told Eyewitness News.

Baden said the practice is more common among young moms who don't want to be bothered by a crying baby. It is well-documented Casey Anthony liked to party and in discovery documents one of her friends even says at parties "the kid slept through anything."

Baden said it's a dangerous practice, because you don't know how much a child is inhaling. It can shut down the respiratory system, the brain and then the heart. Baden said he has seen no proof, but theorizes that it's possible Casey used chloroform intentionally but her child's death was an accident.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17393390/detail.html

[MADJGNLAW]

Oh my...I think Geraldo snuck that question in there and Baden fell for it unintentionally. I wonder what this will mean? I mean, so far we have not heard anything regarding the results from the FBI regarding the hair. Baez keeps crying that the SA is keeping information from him. And L.Baden is on the Casey's dream team, should she be discussing Casey's case to her husband? I am a little confused how this will play out.
"IMO" He did not answer hypothetically, he just answered.

[Charleyann]

Originally Posted by Jolynna

I don't believe Casey had been administering chloroform for a long period of time. To administer chloroform with a rag safely you have to do it drips at a time. Each dose only lasts about 15 minutes.

Third world country veterinarians use chloroform on large animals. They use a mask which mixes the chloroform with gas (diluting it) and controls the dosage.

Chloroform might be a good date rape drug. But, it wouldn't work as a babysitter because you'd have to stay at the child's head dripping drops every 15 minutes to keep the child asleep.

If Casey used it, she did it once and did it wrong. She wouldn't have put the duct tape over into Caylee's hair if she thought the duct tape was going to ever come off. Taxidermists and small town animal shelters still use chloroform as an inexpensive way to euthanize. You can find pages all over the web on how to use chloroform for that. You won't find a single site or example of how to use chloroform for a babysitter.

JMO

Karla Holmolka used this to knock out her little sister for Paul to do his thing. She worked in a Vetinary's office and she stole some. The chorloform knock out her sister but it also caused her to choke on her own vomit and die. Same could have happened to Caylee...

charleyann

[Paladine]

Originally Posted by Charleyann

Karla Holmolka used this to knock out her little sister for Paul to do his thing. She worked in a Vetinary's office and she stole some. The chorloform knock out her sister but it also caused her to choke on her own vomit and die. Same could have happened to Caylee...

charleyann

Especially if there was tape over her mouth...sad to say...but true.

[RR0004]

Originally Posted by Tiki

WOW - just after SA and LE ordered NO MORE LEAKS! I think we can guess where this one came from . . .

Are you saying the defense then leaked this? If so, why would they do that? IMO Baden would know this from other sources, not LE.

[RR0004]

Originally Posted by Tracey276

Thank you Patty! I knew bringing my find here, someone would be able to "Sleuth" out a clip of this statement. Awesome find. Thanks for adding this as I had to knock this around with others, because I was so shocked. I had actually been watching tv at 2 am and had the computer shut down. But I leterally got up and turned on the computer to start looking for this.

Good that you did. I heard the beginning of the show, but then reminded myself that I had sworn of GR. Figures!!

[noonie]

Yes I saw the show and heard Baden say it as my eyes grew huger!!! I'm sure they have lot's more they aren't going to tell. Good for them, spring it on them at a later time. Still never heard for sure on tape. Geraldo and Baden love to let thing "slip" don't they?

[zoey]

Originally Posted by RR0004

Are you saying the defense then leaked this? If so, why would they do that? IMO Baden would know this from other sources, not LE.

keep in mind that Dr. Lee also slipped up & proclaimed the autopsy done for a few weeks before we knew.....they were still trying to keep that undercover....

[dax]

Originally Posted by per_curiam

Back in the early 1970s, our biology class in college was expected to gather a "bug" collection. We were told to go to the instructor and get our CHLOROFORM and cotton balls to keep in a bottle to kill the insect once we'd caught it. Now, I can't even remember how I did that (killed the insect w/the chloroform), but I did it and had a nice collection of butterflies, moths, bugs galore.

Mostly, I would use this opportunity to get to go galavanting with a cute guy. They loved to ask the girl: "Would you like to go bug-hunting with me Saturday out in the nature preserve (woods!). Oh YEAH!

The chloroform was volatile, evaporated easily. I even sniffed it for a brief moment. I can't recall the smell now, either. I'm still alive.

Now, the defense might use this little bit of info: chloroform is released when you combine clenaing products that are labeled "antibacterial", such as the Soft Soap, with BLEACH.

Notice how the labels in tiny print read, do not combine with bleach. No one ever sees that! But the defense may use that in desperation, saying that KC's "cleaning products" in her trunk combined to form chloroform. Lame, isn't it?

That's a good point and you're probably right. They can say this to explain the chloroform in the air samples but that won't help them explain how the chloroform got into Caylee's hair.

[sleutherontheside]

In light of this actual legitimate "bombshell" do you think NG will still be able to use that word??? I'm thinking she'll need to start saying something along the lines of "New.....recycled information that WE are just learning about....". Trumped by good ol' GR. Who would have thunk it???