50/60 year old Amnesia Victim Savannah, GA Thread #5

[MaconChange]

Originally Posted by believe09

No, I don't think he was raised, although you are right about the number we have gone through...it is amazing really.

Let's get a consensus for this man-his square shaped face, dental plate and nose don't do it for me, and I wonder why police feel he was murdered vs just missing from his life. On initial read, it looks almost like the perfect walk away to me...

Have any of you heard that BK is missing some front teeth? I've been searching all day today and found this article http://blogs.discovery.com/sleuth_tr...or-not-to.html
and remembered reading that Thomas Gregory Demyon was missing his front teeth.

[believe09]

Originally Posted by MaconChange

Have any of you heard that BK is missing some front teeth? I've been searching all day today and found this article http://blogs.discovery.com/sleuth_tr...or-not-to.html
and remembered reading that Thomas Gregory Demyon was missing his front teeth.

BK does have distinct dentals-IIRC no one could tell whether the replaced teeth were as a result of his beating or prior. We know that Demyon has some kind of dental that could be compared...

[snowme]

Ack, I hadn't realized that Benjaman had teeth missing when found! Not sure how I missed that info before. When I looked at Thomas Demyon at charleyproject I read about the partial plate and would have dismissed him in my mind due to that.

I would think it would have been farily easy for a dentist to tell if Benjaman's lost teeth were a recent occurance or older. Older would certainly have healed gums.

[snowme]

Originally Posted by believe09

No, I don't think he was raised, although you are right about the number we have gone through...it is amazing really.

Let's get a consensus for this man-his square shaped face, dental plate and nose don't do it for me, and I wonder why police feel he was murdered vs just missing from his life. On initial read, it looks almost like the perfect walk away to me...

You know I kind of had that same feeling too at first but then I realized the area he's in (lived and where car was found) coupled with his gambling habits, debts mentioned and close vicinity of horse racing tracks.... kind of led me to think in a darker area.

As far as his face: Studied the nose alot and it doesn't seem that the nasal opening goes as far back (from tip of nose to cheek area) as BK's does in a side shot. I wish Demyon didn't have that hat on.

[believe09]

Originally Posted by snowme

Ack, I hadn't realized that Benjaman had teeth missing when found! Not sure how I missed that info before. When I looked at Thomas Demyon at charleyproject I read about the partial plate and would have dismissed him in my mind due to that.

I would think it would have been farily easy for a dentist to tell if Benjaman's lost teeth were a recent occurance or older. Older would certainly have healed gums.

my bold-I agree COMPLETELY with you, but ???

[christine2448]

Please continue here.


Previous threads can be found at the bottom of your page.

[carolwood]

BEFORE YOU POST A MISSING PERSON FOR DISCUSSION, PLEASE READ THE NEW STICKY THREAD "READ HERE FIRST/DISCUSSION FROM THE 50-60 YR OLD THREADS 1,2,3" ON THE FRONT PAGE OF BENJAMAN KYLE THREADS.
I WILL BE ADDING THE NOW CLOSED THREAD 4 TO THE LIST SOON.



link to the new sticky thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81763

[Boyz_Mum]

I am not sure who to ask, but in the start of each of these new threads, is it possible for someone to post the basics? (ie: date the person "might" have been missing, characteristics, etc...) Just a rundown of where we're aiming?

(I am asking more because after viewing many threads, it's hard to keep the "certains" in order, from each case.)

Thank you all!

[carolwood]

Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum

I am not sure who to ask, but in the start of each of these new threads, is it possible for someone to post the basics? (ie: date the person "might" have been missing, characteristics, etc...) Just a rundown of where we're aiming?

(I am asking more because after viewing many threads, it's hard to keep the "certains" in order, from each case.)

Thank you all!

I didn't write this down, but I can tell you what thread it came off of and approximate page number, then you can look in that thread, will that help?
I didn't want to congest the thread with particulars on each case. Each one of these have already been discussed, but seems there are some still open for more discussion. If you do start a discussion on a missing person from the new sticky thread, please put the links from the old discussion into new discussion on this thread. Am I making sense?
Just in case I am not, I will post a discussion shortly in here for you to see.

[Boyz_Mum]

Originally Posted by carolwood

I didn't write this down, but I can tell you what thread it came off of and approximate page number, then you can look in that thread, will that help?
I didn't want to congest the thread with particulars on each case. Each one of these have already been discussed, but seems there are some still open for more discussion. If you do start a discussion on a missing person from the new sticky thread, please put the links from the old discussion into new discussion on this thread. Am I making sense?
Just in case I am not, I will post a discussion shortly in here for you to see.

I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

[carolwood]

William Wright North:
missing 4-22-1999
age now:56
brown hair, black eyes
160 lbs, 5'10" tall

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/ga...hp?A200300485W

thread 1, post #7 from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53847

see also post 30:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5W#post1698011

thread 2, #286:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...th#post1768492

(this is a example and not a complete list of the posts that are on 1,2,and 3)

It is hard to find alot of them by names, but if you search for them by the numbers posted on the board, for instance above on Williams, A200300485, this number is listed on post #7, thread 1, and are the last numbers in the post. Sometimes these numbers can be a big help.

Now open for discussion.

*If he has been ruled out, please advise with a link, thanks.

[carolwood]

Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum

I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

No, I absolutely agree, and snipets will be even better but on the new discussion here on this thread.

I will do this over the weekend, putting the thread it came off of and the post numbers, that I come up with, on the sticky thread.

[believe09]

Carolwood,

for your sticky!!!

[snowme]

Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

[believe09]

Originally Posted by snowme

Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

You have it just about right-we have done much speculating on the possible length of time he might have been there, assuming the folks at BK dumped the garbage at least once per day. IIRC the most we came up with was something like 19 hours-of that time, what was actual daylight and was he in the direct sun long enough to 1.) get sunburned and 2.) have cataracts form but not have burned retina's.

This is where I diverge from what has been reported-I believe (just my own opinion) that BK's field of vision was closing or clouded by cataracts before he was injured-I think eyes open in the direct sun would have caused damage to his retina's rather than cataracts to form....even if they were traumatic cataracts. Again, just my opinion as a lay person. Further, when his vision was restored, he thought he had lost 20 years in his appearance.

Beyond that, he was still sweating when he was found-so I don't believe he was in shock or on the verge of sun-stroke.

I would have to believe that there would be frequent trips to the dumpsters during the hours they were open-yet there was a cleaning woman who found him early in the AM lying there. And long enough to be chewed up by fire ants. Ugh.

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum

I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

There is a sticky in the possible match forum on what to consider with a possible match.
hth

[snowme]

Thanks for the quick reply Believe. Reading your words helps me remember reading some of the discussion on it before.. .phew... thought I was losing it.. well, maybe I am, lol... but I digress!

Those are interesting points to ponder, the time necessary to do this damage or that, and if could be pinpointed to a bit of accuracy (had better notice of the situation been documented in the first place) would have great impact on ruling out (and in) certain possibilities, I think. Ugh and splat.

Thanks again Believe for helping me not go thru that rollercoaster ride longer than was necessary. :-)

[RhythmicSun]

Does anyone have copies of the 7 parts of YouTube videos from the Dr. Phil show? They are no longer available. I emailed EyesForLies and she seemed interested in taking a look at them to see what might be gained. Obviously, we are not looking for lies but subconscious memories. Let me know if you think this is not a good avenue to pursue.

If anyone has saved these or knows where to find them, and thinks it is a good idea, please forward to Eyes at her blog EyesForLies. Thanks.

PS I did forward to her the link to the short news clip from approx. 3 years after he was found.

[Boyz_Mum]

Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!)

[hoppyfrog]

Originally Posted by believe09

You have it just about right-we have done much speculating on the possible length of time he might have been there, assuming the folks at BK dumped the garbage at least once per day. IIRC the most we came up with was something like 19 hours-of that time, what was actual daylight and was he in the direct sun long enough to 1.) get sunburned and 2.) have cataracts form but not have burned retina's.

This is where I diverge from what has been reported-I believe (just my own opinion) that BK's field of vision was closing or clouded by cataracts before he was injured-I think eyes open in the direct sun would have caused damage to his retina's rather than cataracts to form....even if they were traumatic cataracts. Again, just my opinion as a lay person. Further, when his vision was restored, he thought he had lost 20 years in his appearance.

Beyond that, he was still sweating when he was found-so I don't believe he was in shock or on the verge of sun-stroke.

I would have to believe that there would be frequent trips to the dumpsters during the hours they were open-yet there was a cleaning woman who found him early in the AM lying there. And long enough to be chewed up by fire ants. Ugh.

Hey, believe! Please clear out your pm box!

tia,

Hoppy

[believe09]

Originally Posted by hoppyfrog

Hey, believe! Please clear out your pm box!

tia,

Hoppy

done...

[believe09]

Originally Posted by snowme

Thanks for the quick reply Believe. Reading your words helps me remember reading some of the discussion on it before.. .phew... thought I was losing it.. well, maybe I am, lol... but I digress!

Those are interesting points to ponder, the time necessary to do this damage or that, and if could be pinpointed to a bit of accuracy (had better notice of the situation been documented in the first place) would have great impact on ruling out (and in) certain possibilities, I think. Ugh and splat.

Thanks again Believe for helping me not go thru that rollercoaster ride longer than was necessary. :-)

YW; no problem. I loved that discussion, BTW-there was some cool poster who checked in with some visions specialists..IIRC the poster was in England...but the specialist indicated that the kind of cataracts he had would have to have been accelerated by long term drug abuse or alcoholism-NEITHER applies to BK, so the other option was long term exposure to the outdoors...not 19 or less hours outside of the Burger King.

FWIW, I had another spirited discussion with our BK regarding this issue-he said the doctors who restored his vision said that it was possible to form traumatic cataracts that quickly-as usual, clear as mud lol!!!

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum

Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!)

I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

[Boyz_Mum]

Originally Posted by believe09

I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input!

[bluestarzz]

this might seem really bizarre, has anyone ever thought he could have been originally a "stolen child?", and have no other family other than parents.
blue