Grandmother of Cantu suspect stands behind family, church

[joga]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_12266036

i haven't started a thread before...hope this turns out right.

this article has comments from CL about her faith and family and portions of DeWayne Harris's (Connie's brother) sermon from Wednesday services.

i STILL don't like this guy...he makes me mad. And i think poor CL is still in a bit of denial and trying to make sense of all of this.

[raindrops300]

From the article:

"Lane is the last person on the Earth that you would ever suspect of abusing anyone," (spoken by Connie)


Maybe I'm cynical, but this just sounds ominous to me. Like I've heard it before.

[daisy.faithfull]

Originally Posted by raindrops300

From the article:

"Lane is the last person on the Earth that you would ever suspect of abusing anyone," (spoken by Connie)


Maybe I'm cynical, but this just sounds ominous to me. Like I've heard it before.

Regarding Connie's comment about Lane, in the words of Dan Rather, "Don't bet the trailer money on it yet."

(I got that off of his wikipedia entry. I only thought of hunting for a "Ratherism" because Connie's brother mentioned that he felt sorry for Nancy and Dan Rather. Dan Rather? I haven't seen him out in front with this story...)

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by raindrops300

From the article:

"Lane is the last person on the Earth that you would ever suspect of abusing anyone," (spoken by Connie)


Maybe I'm cynical, but this just sounds ominous to me. Like I've heard it before.

Since he has not been arrested for anything ever that I am aware of I don't think Pastor Lawless is an abuser. Everyone that knows him says he is a kind and gentle man. The police seems to have thoroughly checked this family out and the only one that is a pervert is their granddaughter.

I think the grandparents and the church have become victimized by their notorious evil granddaughter.

[Logger]

Isn't Grandma under a gag order?

She sounds defensive. An independent church likes to make their own rules.
As an independent church they are not accountable to other Baptists. No one is there to help them out of their denial.

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by Logger

Isn't Grandma under a gag order?

She sounds defensive. An independent church likes to make their own rules.
As an independent church they are not accountable to other Baptists. No one is there to help them out of their denial.

I imagine she is defensive. Terrible things have been said about their church and even them.

It has to be very hard on them but then they must keep the faith......that is all they can do now and will be the only thing that gets them through this, imo.

imoo

[daisy.faithfull]

Originally Posted by Logger

Isn't Grandma under a gag order?

From what I understood everyone is under gag order, I don't see why Connie wouldn't be.

I'm bumping, because I'm confused about that too.

[simlyme]

Im sorry I dont mean to offend,but, I get the impression this woman CL is confused.
This is getting rediculous, it almost sounds like shes asking for pity.
Good out of evil?
Well, if she claims that her Grand-daughter is innocent,maybe,she murdered Sandra?

:Justice: For SANDRA

[Salem]

Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes

Since he has not been arrested for anything ever that I am aware of I don't think Pastor Lawless is an abuser. Everyone that knows him says he is a kind and gentle man. The police seems to have thoroughly checked this family out and the only one that is a pervert is their granddaughter.

I think the grandparents and the church have become victimized by their notorious evil granddaughter.

I basically agree with you ocean but I admit that I continue to pray that we are right.

Salem

[Salem]

Originally Posted by simlyme

Im sorry I dont mean to offend,but, I get the impression this woman CL is confused.
This is getting rediculous, it almost sounds like shes asking for pity.
Good out of evil?
Well, if she claims that her Grand-daughter is innocent,maybe,she murdered Sandra?

:Justice: For SANDRA

Not offended Simlyme. I do think CL is confused, shocked and probably stunned. It has been a hard time for her. First her husband is accused of child molestation and possibly murdered, then her grand daughter is arrested for those things. That's a lot to have to take in and try to undertand.

As for good out of evil - this is a principle I hold very close to my heart. Sometimes we don't understand what that good is but I do believe it happens (I need to believe it happens). In another thread, a poster (I think it was SeekingJana, but I could be wrong) was comparing this case to the JBRamsy case. Maybe one of the good things that will happen from Sandra's case is that new light will be shed on JBR's case. I don't know, all I know is that it is very important for ME to believe that Sandra's death is not in vain. Whatever the good is, I have to believe in it. If nothing else, this case may open the eyes of LE everywhere and help them understand that sometimes women are evil too, and if there is no male perp, they should seriously consider that a woman could be the perp.

Hope that makes some kind of sense ,

Salem

[daisy.faithfull]

Originally Posted by Salem

As for good out of evil - this is a principle I hold very close to my heart. Sometimes we don't understand what that good is but I do believe it happens (I need to believe it happens). In another thread, a poster (I think it was SeekingJana, but I could be wrong) was comparing this case to the JBRamsy case. Maybe one of the good things that will happen from Sandra's case is that new light will be shed on JBR's case. I don't know, all I know is that it is very important for ME to believe that Sandra's death is not in vain. Whatever the good is, I have to believe in it. If nothing else, this case may open the eyes of LE everywhere and help them understand that sometimes women are evil too, and if there is no male perp, they should seriously consider that a woman could be the perp.

Hope that makes some kind of sense ,

Salem

Wonderfully put Salem... I hadn't thought about Sandra helping to bring justice for JonBenet, that's a beautiful thought!

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by Salem

I basically agree with you ocean but I admit that I continue to pray that we are right.

Salem

Good afternoon, Salem,

I am pretty comfortable in my belief that the grandparents are just caught up in this nightmare that MH has placed them in.

I think if there was something untoward it would have leaked by now. The police certainly don't suspect them. Elderly people sometimes tend to want to see only the goodness in people. I am sure it has been very hard on them to even have to consider that their own granddaughter is capable of such a monstrous crime.

These people are in their 70s...what a horrible situation they now find themselves in this late in life. I am sure they feel the pressure in the community. It isn't right but many times just because someone is kin to someone who has done something horrific and despicable they too feel that wrath simply because they are unfortunate to be kin.

I think it is very likely that the elderly Lawless grandparents will begin to fail in health. MH has left them a heavy burden to carry.

imoo

[Bobbisangel]

Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes

Good afternoon, Salem,

I am pretty comfortable in my belief that the grandparents are just caught up in this nightmare that MH has placed them in.

I think if there was something untoward it would have leaked by now. The police certainly don't suspect them. Elderly people sometimes tend to want to see only the goodness in people. I am sure it has been very hard on them to even have to consider that their own granddaughter is capable of such a monstrous crime.

These people are in their 70s...what a horrible situation they now find themselves in this late in life. I am sure they feel the pressure in the community. It isn't right but many times just because someone is kin to someone who has done something horrific and despicable they too feel that wrath simply because they are unfortunate to be kin.

I think it is very likely that the elderly Lawless grandparents will begin to fail in health. MH has left them a heavy burden to carry.

imoo

You are so right. I feel bad for the grandparents too. They love their granddaughter and were trying to help her. They are probably just stunned that she could do something like that to a little child. They were close to Sandra according to the grandmother and that has to add to their pain. The grandfather isn't well and this sure won't help his health. It has to be hard for them living right by Sandra's family just as it has to be hard for Sandra's family living that close to where Melissa lived. I look for someone to move. I hope people aren't shunning the Lawless grandparents. It does happen though. I wonder if Melissa has any idea what she put and is still putting her grandparents through...and does she care...I hope so.

[Wannabesleuth]

There is something fishy about the church with its practically non-existent congregation.
It may not have anything to do with Melissa, but something is rotten in Denmark at the Clover Baptist Church.

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by Wannabesleuth

There is something fishy about the church with its practically non-existent congregation.
It may not have anything to do with Melissa, but something is rotten in Denmark at the Clover Baptist Church.

May I ask why you think that?

The reason I ask I have seen so many of these small churches just like this one where their membership has dropped to just a few devoted congregants. From what I have read Tracy is more spread out and populated now and has become much larger in recent years. Where the Pastor's church is located it is probably a small rural area and other past members have moved somewhere else in the county and have found another church closer by where they moved. Those who have been a member for decades probably still come, especially the elderly members or those that still live very close to the church.

It may have never had a large congregation to begin with. Maybe 50 to 70 members that use to show up on Sunday when the Pastor was much younger. Now that he is 77 years old he may be semi-retired now.

The church is a very simple church with no frills and I am sure by now it is paid for and the upkeep wouldn't really be all that much even for a small congregation of 20 or 25.

JMO

[txsvicki]

I can understand why a little elderly woman, raised by a preacher, and married to a preacher would have a hard time realizing that her own grand daughter could have committed such a crime. To have her husband accused of such things would be horrible. I know that anyone, mostly men, can be abusers though, and hope that the pastor is not guilty of anything. I hope that the pastor can vindicate himself if he has been accused my Melissa of anyting. I have a very hard time believing that a pastor of what I consider a Christian church could be a child molestor. A member yes, but a longtime pastor, no.

[darlin gal]

Originally Posted by txsvicki

I can understand why a little elderly woman, raised by a preacher, and married to a preacher would have a hard time realizing that her own grand daughter could have committed such a crime. To have her husband accused of such things would be horrible. I know that anyone, mostly men, can be abusers though, and hope that the pastor is not guilty of anything. I hope that the pastor can vindicate himself if he has been accused my Melissa of anyting. I have a very hard time believing that a pastor of what I consider a Christian church could be a child molestor. A member yes, but a longtime pastor, no.

I hope the pastor can be vindicated too. I don't think he had anything to do with Sandra's death. jmo

One would be naive to believe pastors (even longtime ones) don't molest children though.

I invite you to stroll through these links. This is just a "fraction" of the articles that have been collected regarding ministers who have sexually abused children.


147 Baptist Ministers

251 "Bible" Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers




http://stopbaptistpredators.org/alarmingnumbers.html

I want to state that I am of the opinion that most clergy, be they Baptist, Methodist, Protestant, Jewish, Roman Catholic, etc... are good men (women) with good intentions.

Unfortunately the horror of sexual abuse is that it is a most grievous human sin of which people in all denominations can be guilty.

[oceanblueeyes]

I think all of us are very aware that some people of the cloth can molest children and even adults. We could say that about every profession in this country, imo. However, in this case, I have seen no evidence that Pastor Lawless has abused anyone. Just because some do doesn't mean that they all do.

I don't understand what he has to be vindicated for? The police surely have never said that Pastor Lawless is an abuser of anyone and he has not been arrested for any crimes.

imo

[joga]

Originally Posted by txsvicki

I can understand why a little elderly woman, raised by a preacher, and married to a preacher would have a hard time realizing that her own grand daughter could have committed such a crime. To have her husband accused of such things would be horrible. I know that anyone, mostly men, can be abusers though, and hope that the pastor is not guilty of anything. I hope that the pastor can vindicate himself if he has been accused my Melissa of anyting. I have a very hard time believing that a pastor of what I consider a Christian church could be a child molestor. A member yes, but a longtime pastor, no.

why would you not think a pastor could be a child molester? i don't mean any disrespect, i'm just curious as to why you think that. i completely disagree because it's been shown time and time again that child molesters come in/from/around all walks of life. churches are definitely (as has been shown many times in the news) not immune. IMO.

note that i am not saying Pastor Lawless is one, i agree that something would have probably leaked by now if they had anything on him.

[SeekingJana]

Originally Posted by Salem

Not offended Simlyme. I do think CL is confused, shocked and probably stunned. It has been a hard time for her. First her husband is accused of child molestation and possibly murdered, then her grand daughter is arrested for those things. That's a lot to have to take in and try to undertand.

As for good out of evil - this is a principle I hold very close to my heart. Sometimes we don't understand what that good is but I do believe it happens (I need to believe it happens). In another thread, a poster (I think it was SeekingJana, but I could be wrong) was comparing this case to the JBRamsy case. Maybe one of the good things that will happen from Sandra's case is that new light will be shed on JBR's case. I don't know, all I know is that it is very important for ME to believe that Sandra's death is not in vain. Whatever the good is, I have to believe in it. If nothing else, this case may open the eyes of LE everywhere and help them understand that sometimes women are evil too, and if there is no male perp, they should seriously consider that a woman could be the perp.

Hope that makes some kind of sense ,

Salem

Hi, Salem,
Yes, it was me who stated that this case adds quite a bit of pathos and perhaps very belated additional understanding of female adult to female child murders with a psychosexual component to JonBenet's murder.. For some of us almost 13 years ago, JonBenet's brutal murder caused us to gasp when it first hit the nightly news, then the emerging details tore our hearts out, and have changed us forever.
Some of us believe now and some of us have always believed that JonBenet's mother was instrumental in JonBenet's murder. Others have argued just as passionately that it couldn't be possible due to the damage to the tiny child's genitalia. That a mother wouldn't do that kind of thing.
I hope so much that one day in my lifetime the world will know who killed JonBenet, even if the time for justice on his earth passed with the death of Patsy Ramsey.

I understand the confusion and perhaps the anger associated with Sandra's suspected murderer's family comments, because part of it does closely parallel things which were leaked and inappropriate statements made by extended Ramsey family members.
For example, Patsy's mother, Nedra, stated that JonBenet was molested a " little bit". The precious child was all of 6 years old at the time of her death. There is no " little bit" molested.

I can only speak for myself. I am a Christian who believes that when any of us on this earth do wrong, or believe another person close to us has committed a crime, we are subject to and are charged with supporting the laws of this land, not to protect or make excuses for the accused criminal in the name of God.
God didn't have anything to do with Sandra's murder- Satan did.
God's forgiveness does not negate the justice system, either.

We had " God's forgiveness" shoved down our throats endlessly with JonBenet's murder, from everyone from the neighbors to the family pastor, to the Ramseys who said on national TV that they forgave the killer. So did John's eldest son, John Andrew.

On a related note, I think in the evolution of a long unsolved crime, it is healthier for the survivors to reach a state of peace and perhaps forgiveness than to be stuck in anger and bitterness, but not in the early stages when anger and grief and outrage are appropriate... if the murderer is not a beloved family member too.
I believe Sandra's family has displayed heartbreak and anger with their grief.

IMO, Connie Lawless may be caught up in some kind of misguided religious dogma of almost instant forgiveness and reconciliation. The best thing the Lawless family could do would be to hire a spokesperson, issue condolances, and never violate the gag order again.

[txsvicki]

Originally Posted by joga

why would you not think a pastor could be a child molester? i don't mean any disrespect, i'm just curious as to why you think that. i completely disagree because it's been shown time and time again that child molesters come in/from/around all walks of life. churches are definitely (as has been shown many times in the news) not immune. IMO.

note that i am not saying Pastor Lawless is one, i agree that something would have probably leaked by now if they had anything on him.

Because my religious affiliations are like his and I've been around Baptists all my life. My great grandfather was a minister and all my Uncles and Brother in Law were/are Deacons and cousin Missionaries. I just believe God would get them or they'd be found out and self destruct before living to be old men. Of course, I have heard of one incestuous child fondler in the church, but only one. It's not impossible to have happen. He only continued on with any good membership in church because his family kept it quiet from even each other for years then he died.

[simlyme]

Originally Posted by SeekingJana

Hi, Salem,


I can only speak for myself. I am a Christian who believes that when any of us on this earth do wrong, or believe another person close to us has committed a crime, we are subject to and are charged with supporting the laws of this land, not to protect or make excuses for the accused criminal in the name of God.
God didn't have anything to do with Sandra's murder- Satan did.
God's forgiveness does not negate the justice system, either.

.

Could'nt have said it better myself




:Justice: For SANDRA

[joga]

Originally Posted by txsvicki

Because my religious affiliations are like his and I've been around Baptists all my life. My great grandfather was a minister and all my Uncles and Brother in Law were/are Deacons and cousin Missionaries. I just believe God would get them or they'd be found out and self destruct before living to be old men. Of course, I have heard of one incestuous child fondler in the church, but only one. It's not impossible to have happen. He only continued on with any good membership in church because his family kept it quiet from even each other for years then he died.

WOW...ok, we'll have to agree to disagree then...thanks for answering me back...