2009.06.01Air France Plane Goes Missing Over Atlantic BLACK BOX UPDATE 2011.05.01

Tricia · #1 06-01-2009, 06:40 AM

Fox News is reporting an Air France Plane carrying 228 people drops off radar over the Atlantic.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523701,00.html

Dear God how horrible.

poco · #2 06-01-2009, 07:01 AM

OMG!!! The article says An Air France official says the airline has lost contact with a plane carrying 228 people from Brazil to Paris.

I'm wondering if they had voice contact with the pilot or if they just lost radar contact. I cannot find anything else about this.

poco · #3 06-01-2009, 07:05 AM

Okay, here we go.....

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...l#cnnSTCOther1

roller26 · #4 06-01-2009, 07:36 AM

Oh no! It should have landed hours ago. What could have possibly happened to it?

Truthful Lies · #5 06-01-2009, 08:04 AM

I'm worried a lot over this...really saddens me. No family/friends on board that I know of...but still...they are "family" of the world. Prayers going up from me.

Mr. E · #6 06-01-2009, 09:01 AM

I heard on the Today show this morning that the plane was a type that could, and I may have this confused, but it sounded like it could become airtight, which means there is a chance that the passengers are awaiting rescue on the ocean somewhere. I really hope that is the case.

HesterMofet · #7 06-01-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. E

I heard on the Today show this morning that the plane was a type that could, and I may have this confused, but it sounded like it could become airtight, which means there is a chance that the passengers are awaiting rescue on the ocean somewhere. I really hope that is the case.

Even an airtight plane can only stay up for a little while and only if the pilot was able to land it just right. The problem with the Airbus is that if you lose your electrical, which is what looks like may have happened here, you're screwed because there is no hydraulic backup system on those planes, it's a "fly by wire" aircraft. They have several different power systems, batteries and APUs, but lightning could have taken them all out. (This info courtesy of my husband who knows about planes. It's all beyond me!)

Beyond Belief · #8 06-01-2009, 09:09 AM

hmm my hubby said could be a bomb. Ugh.

Mr. E · #9 06-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

hmm my hubby said could be a bomb. Ugh.

They said on the Today show that this was a possiblity as well, although they said there was no way to know. They said that take offs and landings are the worst time for planes because that's the time when most things happen. Things happening during flight are rare, and one of the possibilities was a bomb.

Trino · #10 06-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

hmm my hubby said could be a bomb. Ugh.

No mention of this. News sources indicate the electric system failed.

"... the plane sent an automatic signal indicating electrical problems while going through strong turbulence, Air France said."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523701,00.html

Brazil's Civil Aeronautics Agency, or ANAC, told Globo news. "It could be a long, sad story. The black box will be at the bottom of the sea."

Zuckerschnecke · #11 06-01-2009, 10:00 AM

I am sick to hear that this plane was possibly struck by lightning. On a recent flight in April, from Tampa to SD, our plane was struck by lightning and let me tell you that all of us were very frightened. It shook the plane violently and the plane dropped suddenly before coming shortly back up. About twenty minutes later, the pilot came on and said we had been struck and had to make an emergency landing. It did not feel like a normal landing and later after we got on another plane, we were told we had lost some controls. I was on the internet googling to see if it was common and it really seemed to be that it wasn't so unusual. Now I see this on the news. I hope they were able to make a landing but now that it's daylight and there's no sign, it doesn't look good. How sad for all those people. Flying scares me now more than as a kid, I guess it's just part of getting old.

Trino · #12 06-01-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuckerschnecke

I am sick to hear that this plane was possibly struck by lightning. On a recent flight in April, from Tampa to SD, our plane was struck by lightning and let me tell you that all of us were very frightened. It shook the plane violently and the plane dropped suddenly before coming shortly back up. About twenty minutes later, the pilot came on and said we had been struck and had to make an emergency landing. It did not feel like a normal landing and later after we got on another plane, we were told we had lost some controls. I was on the internet googling to see if it was common and it really seemed to be that it wasn't so unusual. Now I see this on the news. I hope they were able to make a landing but now that it's daylight and there's no sign, it doesn't look good. How sad for all those people. Flying scares me now more than as a kid, I guess it's just part of getting old.

The scary thing is that the Airbus A330 has no hydraulic back-up system. An electric failure is catastrophic. Modern technology at work?

Many Vietnam era pilots with loads of experience have retired, and modern pilots may not be as well-trained.

Zuckerschnecke · #13 06-01-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trino

The scary thing is that the Airbus A330 has no hydraulic back-up system. An electric failure is catastrophic. Modern technology at work?

Many Vietnam era pilots with loads of experience have retired, and modern pilots may not be as well-trained.

No kidding, look at the Buffalo crash. I hope they find this plane quickly and with any grace of God there are some survivors. So sad what all those people must have been going through. I will be glued to the news all day now.

gaia227 · #14 06-01-2009, 10:32 AM

This gives me goosebumps. I HATE to fly. I am a nervous wreck the whole time and every little noise and bump sends me into a mild panic. After the plane that went down in the Hudson, the one in Buffalo and know this one I might be hoofing it around the country.

I feel so badly for these people. I hope it all happened very quickly. The thing that scares me so much about a plane crash is the time you have to think about the fact you are plummeting 30,000 feet to your imminent death. The terror, panic when the plane pitches and goes into rolls and nose dives. At least with a car crash it happens so fast you don't really have time to think about it. The scary thing about this is that they don't know where this plane went down. I hope they find it quickly. The poor families who are waiting for word.......

KaylynnCouture · #15 06-01-2009, 10:33 AM

This is really sad, and scary. I'm praying that maybe the plane just lost contact for some reason, but that everyone is fine and they're still flying like normal, even though I know that's most likely not the case.

Praying for everyone on board and their families.

KaylynnCouture · #16 06-01-2009, 10:37 AM

From FoxNews.com

Quote:

The plane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence" at 0200 GMT Monday (10 p.m. EDT Sunday). An automatic message was received at 0214 GMT (10:14 p.m. EDT Sunday) "signaling electrical circuit malfunction."

fran · #17 06-01-2009, 11:19 AM

Thanks for the updates. I see still no news.

fran

adnoid · #18 06-01-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. E

I heard on the Today show this morning that the plane was a type that could, and I may have this confused, but it sounded like it could become airtight, which means there is a chance that the passengers are awaiting rescue on the ocean somewhere. I really hope that is the case.

Not really. The Airbus planes have a single switch that closes all the openings in the lower part of the fuselage at once in case the plane has to ditch in the water. However, the pilots of the plane that landed in the Hudson did not have time to operate this switch and plane still floated for quite a while.

Aircraft are not in any way air tight - they constantly leak through welds, fittings, joints, etc. To keep them pressurized air is continuously taken from the engine compressors and fed into the cabin (after being cooled off, of course).

adnoid · #19 06-01-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trino

The scary thing is that the Airbus A330 has no hydraulic back-up system. An electric failure is catastrophic. Modern technology at work?

Many Vietnam era pilots with loads of experience have retired, and modern pilots may not be as well-trained.

Actually all the control surfaces are operated hydraulically, each engine has a hydraulic pump and only 1 is needed. However the whole plane is "fly by wire" - you fly it with a small joystick to your left or right (depending on which seat you are in) as opposed to a wheel or yoke attached to cables. The side stick and other controls produce inputs to an array of flight computers, and the flight computers control the flow of hydraulic pressure to move the control surfaces.

No electricity = no more flying controls.

SuziQ · #20 06-01-2009, 11:34 AM

There is an aviation industry discussion at the below link. People know their stuff there and sometimes there is inside info posted.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...n/4429616/1/#1

adnoid · #21 06-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaylynnCouture

This is really sad, and scary. I'm praying that maybe the plane just lost contact for some reason, but that everyone is fine and they're still flying like normal, even though I know that's most likely not the case.

Praying for everyone on board and their families.

I'm afraid it's going to be bad.

SuziQ · #22 06-01-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adnoid

I'm afraid it's going to be bad.

I've been waiting for you to pop in this thread.

BTW, thanks for turning me on to Airliner.net. It's the first place I go when there is a crash.

adnoid · #23 06-01-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuziQ

I've been waiting for you to pop in this thread.

BTW, thanks for turning me on to Airliner.net. It's the first place I go when there is a crash.

Yep. Here's the latest thread:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...n/4429616/1/#1

SuziQ · #24 06-01-2009, 11:55 AM

Adnoid, Shouldn't there have been enough time for some type of communication with the ground? If I'm understanding correctly there is only the automatic message that was sent?

adnoid · #25 06-01-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuziQ

Adnoid, Shouldn't there have been enough time for some type of communication with the ground? If I'm understanding correctly there is only the automatic message that was sent?

The automatic maintenance message is via a different system than the radios. In the area they were you use a High Frequency (HF) radio. But all radios need electricity.

The A330 is a "glass cockpit" plane. The radio itself has no knobs or displays, it;'s in a rack of equipment usually under the floor of the flight deck. To operate it the pilot pushes buttons on his display and signals are sent downstairs to change frequency, transmit, etc. If the remote controls go out, no way to use the radio.

There is redundancy, but it's really emergency stuff - IIRC 1 emergency radio not operated by remote control, but again it needs electrical power.

I'll see if I can dig up a picture of a cockpit.