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  #51  
Old 06-02-2009, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AmandaBrown23 View Post
See everyone says im crazy because I am too terrified to get on an airplane, well this is why. I cant imagine free falling to my death. Im scared of heights anyways...
You're not crazy. If you are frightened by it don't fly, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm flying to New York on Thursday and will be flying back from the same airport that was used by the plane that ended up in the Hudson and I have no worries whatsoever, but I fly a lot and I am a private pilot as well. (I've got 4 legs, 3 are on an Airbus 320 and the other is on a 757).

An interesting note is that an unusually high percentage of airline pilots are afraid of heights - they can fly the planes 7 miles up but are unable to go out on the hotel balcony when they get there. I don't have a source but I've read this many times over the years...
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  #52  
Old 06-02-2009, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
You're not crazy. If you are frightened by it don't fly, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm flying to New York on Thursday and will be flying back from the same airport that was used by the plane that ended up in the Hudson and I have no worries whatsoever, but I fly a lot and I am a private pilot as well. (I've got 4 legs, 3 are on an Airbus 320 and the other is on a 757).

An interesting note is that an unusually high percentage of airline pilots are afraid of heights - they can fly the planes 7 miles up but are unable to go out on the hotel balcony when they get there. I don't have a source but I've read this many times over the years...

Wow I cant imagine being a pilot and being scared of heights haha.
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  #53  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:54 PM
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The pilots on that flight (there are 3, 2 flying and 1 relief so nobody gets tired) had LOADS of experience. Air France has very good pilots, I doubt inexperience was an issue.
I haven't flown since Sept. 11th, for fear of being a sitting duck, but when we flew to Tahiti and back for our honeymoon(over 8 hour flight) we went on Air France, and I felt fairly secure in a large jet. Air France had an excellent track record as far as crashes.
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  #54  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:57 PM
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Lightning strike on an airplane (which does not affect it):

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  #55  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
You're not crazy. If you are frightened by it don't fly, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm flying to New York on Thursday and will be flying back from the same airport that was used by the plane that ended up in the Hudson and I have no worries whatsoever, but I fly a lot and I am a private pilot as well. (I've got 4 legs, 3 are on an Airbus 320 and the other is on a 757).

An interesting note is that an unusually high percentage of airline pilots are afraid of heights - they can fly the planes 7 miles up but are unable to go out on the hotel balcony when they get there. I don't have a source but I've read this many times over the years...
Hi adnoid! I can understand the last part about pilots being afraid of height. You wouldn't be able to pay me enough to stand on the observation deck of, for example, the Statue of Liberty, or even a cruise ship ~ but I love to fly (in commercial aircraft)!! I think it's because of the enclosure of the airplane that gives the feeling of not being out there where one could get pushed over a railing or fall off.

The sad part about this particular crash is that the wreckage is strewn miles over the Atlantic Ocean, down in the depths and swept away with the waves.
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  #56  
Old 06-02-2009, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
I haven't flown since Sept. 11th, for fear of being a sitting duck, but when we flew to Tahiti and back for our honeymoon(over 8 hour flight) we went on Air France, and I felt fairly secure in a large jet. Air France had an excellent track record as far as crashes.
Air France is an airline I would have no problem flying on based on the experience and training of the crews.

We also went to Tahiti for our honeymoon, although I'm sure that was a long time before you went (married in 1988). We left out of Los Angeles when an enormous storm was hitting - it took out parts of the LA Harbor breakwater - and I remember watching the inside fuselage of the 747 twist and bend as we climbed out due to the forces on the wings and tail surfaces (which I explained to a white-knuckled Mrs. Adnoid). The wing tips were going up and down what looked like 10 feet (which they are built to do). Once we got up in the air the rest of flight was uneventful.
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  #57  
Old 06-02-2009, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by panthera View Post
Hi adnoid! I can understand the last part about pilots being afraid of height. You wouldn't be able to pay me enough to stand on the observation deck of, for example, the Statue of Liberty, or even a cruise ship ~ but I love to fly (in commercial aircraft)!! I think it's because of the enclosure of the airplane that gives the feeling of not being out there where one could get pushed over a railing or fall off.

The sad part about this particular crash is that the wreckage is strewn miles over the Atlantic Ocean, down in the depths and swept away with the waves.
That's right - inside the cockpit you cannot see straight down.
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  #58  
Old 06-02-2009, 09:14 PM
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That's right - inside the cockpit you cannot see straight down.
I actually love a window seat also!

From the latest updates, it states recovering the black boxes will be "extremely challenging" .

"“We are in a race against the clock in extremely difficult weather conditions and in a zone where depths reach up to 7,000 meters (22,966 feet),” French Prime Minister Francois Fillon told lawmakers in parliament Tuesday ."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31057560/

To me it would seem nearly impossible.
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  #59  
Old 06-02-2009, 09:48 PM
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...To me it would seem nearly impossible.
Damned near. There are maybe half a dozen vessels that can make it below 3,000 meters and I don't know of any in service that can make it to 7,000. The US has DSV-4 which is good to 6,100 and the French have Nautile that can make it to 6,000. The Japanese had an unmanned one that could go deeper but they lost it recently.

http://www.ifremer.fr/fleet/systemes...ns/nautile.htm

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/...intel/dsv.html
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  #60  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:07 PM
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Damned near. There are maybe half a dozen vessels that can make it below 3,000 meters and I don't know of any in service that can make it to 7,000. The US has DSV-4 which is good to 6,100 and the French have Nautile that can make it to 6,000. The Japanese had an unmanned one that could go deeper but they lost it recently.

http://www.ifremer.fr/fleet/systemes...ns/nautile.htm

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/...intel/dsv.html
Very interesting information ~ thanks! It's too bad about the Japanese vessel which may have been able to help.
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  #61  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:32 PM
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http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...902421,00.html

Malfunction? Starting with paragraph 5 - comparing AF 447 to another near crash. The computer disregarded healthy info and went with rogue info.
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  #62  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:33 PM
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Interesting article - I remember when this happened...

A Past Flight May Offer Clues to Air France 447

"...After seemingly an eternity in reality, the nosedive lasted 20 very long seconds the flight crew wrested control of the plane from its wayward computer and made an emergency landing at a remote military and mining airstrip 650 miles short of Perth..."
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  #63  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Trino View Post
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...902421,00.html

Malfunction? Starting with paragraph 5 - comparing AF 447 to another near crash. The computer disregarded healthy info and went with rogue info.
Great minds think alike, I see...
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  #64  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:54 PM
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Great minds think alike, I see...
Thanks to both you and Trino for the links ~ now I'm wondering if the lightning could've caused a computer malfunction on Flight 447?

Thanks also for having a good discussion on this tragedy here.
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  #65  
Old 06-02-2009, 11:53 PM
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I'm TERRIFIED of flying..I could'nt understand how that BIG'OL Jet could stay in the air. Then someone had this long talk with me about aerodynamincs...Well, A flock of geese took down the jet that landed in the Hudson river and Pfffffft! There goes the aerodynamics theory out the window in my little brain..
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  #66  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:16 AM
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Bomb threat called in for Air France flight days before crash?

What are the odds?
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  #67  
Old 06-03-2009, 07:44 AM
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It appears we may never know the cause - a needle in a haystack to locate the black box since debris is scattered over 60k. I read the box had 30 days max of pings on land. Under water?
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2009, 08:40 AM
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It appears we may never know the cause - a needle in a haystack to locate the black box since debris is scattered over 60k. I read the box had 30 days max of pings on land. Under water?
Hi Trino, Thanks for your input. And to Adnoid and everyone else, Panthera, MomofBoys and Dolly, and anyone I have missed, this has been such a learning experience, reading this thread. It is one of the wonderful things about Websleuths that I appreciate so much. I do thank you all.

I'm sure Air France, the Brazilian govnmt and all the powers that be who will join in now to find any remnants of this crash and help to retrieve the 2 black boxes and anything left from the plane ~ they will give it their every effort to be successful.

I am wondering if the danger involved in such an expedition is worth it. Yes, they have to give it their best. I doubt there will be remains to recover. If they do by some miracle recover the boxes, will it possibly prevent a future tradedy. And if they discover it was terrorism, what good will it do? Will they be able to point a finger at the criminals?

I don't know the answers to those questions, but am wondering if this will be an exercise in futility and maybe the world should accept this great tragedy for what it is.

I'd like to hear what you think about that. Could it be those people were all there at the wrong place at the wrong time, everything was done by the book, but nothing could have stopped it and it was like a freak of nature.

Don't hate me. I would like to see every body recovered and learn the answers too. xox



PS: I know the Norwegians are very adept at matters of the ocean and remember when they discovered that submarine up by Greenland and brought up the men who died. Do you think they will be involved in this effort?

Today the Washington Post is suppose to have a great article about how could a plane like this fall right out of the sky, or SS. I look forward to reading it and will bring a link over when it is up. xox

WASHINGTON POST
Search Teams Converge On Presumed Air France Crash Zone
June 3, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060102731.html
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  #69  
Old 06-03-2009, 09:39 AM
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PARIS (AP) A French accident investigator says it is unclear whether the chief pilot of Air France Flight 447 was at the controls when the plane crashed into the Atlantic Ocean.
The head of France's accident investigation agency, Paul-Louis Arslanian, also says he is "not optimistic" that rescuers will recover the plane's black boxes miles (kilometers) under the water.
Pilots on long-haul flights often take turns at the controls to remain alert. Asked whether the chief pilot was in the cockpit when the plane went down, Arslanian told a news conference in France on Wednesday that there was no confirmed information either way.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Dgq5wD98J4DNO0
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  #70  
Old 06-03-2009, 09:43 AM
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See everyone says im crazy because I am too terrified to get on an airplane, well this is why. I cant imagine free falling to my death. Im scared of heights anyways. I feel so bad for all of the families suffering right now. I read somewhere that they may have found some signs of the plane wreckage.

Yep here it is http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...ing/index.html
The couple they mention in the article were from a town really close to me. It was on our local news last night.
Your are not crazy. A lot of people are scared to fly. I didn't get on an airplane until I was 22 yrs old because I was so scared to fly but I wanted to go to NYC really bad. My fear is for the same reasons as yours.

Now that I live in NYC and my family is in Missouri I have to fly much more than I ever wanted but thankfully it is a short flight and it does get easier but I will never feel comfortable - or even anywhere near comfrotable. I don't know if I will ever be able to conquer an overseas flight. That makes my stomach turn just thinking about it.
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  #71  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
You're not crazy. If you are frightened by it don't fly, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm flying to New York on Thursday and will be flying back from the same airport that was used by the plane that ended up in the Hudson and I have no worries whatsoever, but I fly a lot and I am a private pilot as well. (I've got 4 legs, 3 are on an Airbus 320 and the other is on a 757).

An interesting note is that an unusually high percentage of airline pilots are afraid of heights - they can fly the planes 7 miles up but are unable to go out on the hotel balcony when they get there. I don't have a source but I've read this many times over the years...
My ex is a pilot and he is very afraid of heights.
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  #72  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
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My ex is a pilot and he is very afraid of heights.
Well, there we go! Thanks for the confirmation.
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  #73  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:15 PM
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My uncle was chief test pilot at Lockheed and did the test flight on the A12 Blackbird in 1962. I don't think he was afraid of heights but he hated flying commercial and used to drive cross country to avoid it. If he wasn't flying it, he didn't want to be in it. My poor cousins were known to have to use a coffee can to relieve themselves in the car because being a speed demon, he hated to stop for breaks and would just drive drive drive. They wanted him in the astronaut program and he said "Hell, no! Too boring!"

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  #74  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:21 PM
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My uncle was the head test pilot at Lockheed and did the first test flight on the A12 Blackbird in 1962...
That's too cool!
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  #75  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:27 PM
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More recent news from CNN World here.

Quote:
Among the debris found Wednesday were various objects in a circular 5-kilometer (3-mile) area; one object with a diameter of 7 meters (23 feet); 10 objects, some of which were metallic; and a thin oil slick that extended as far as 20 kilometers (12 miles), said Brazilian Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral.
adnoid.

Note one relatively large (7 meter) object found. Could this indicate anything about the condition of the plane when it impacted?

If it was intact on impact would there be less of a chance of large pieces of debris remaining on the surface, or does this not provide any real insight into the plane's condition when it hit?

Any thoughts?

Just to head off conjecture, I'm not thinking terrorist here. Much of the pilot/technician/engineer discussion I've been reading seems to be moving towards a combination of weather related structural or mechanical problems combined with cascading system failure.

I wonder if a sign that the plane began break-up in the air might suggest a clue.

ETA: Further reading has pointed out that sufficiently rapid descent would cause break-up by itself, so...

... never mind, I guess.
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