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  #176  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:11 PM
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All of which raises the question: Why aren’t commercial planes streaming cockpit video to airlines in real time?

According to Arthur Wolk, America’s pre-eminent aviation expert and lawyer, the technological capability is there, but the support of the union that represents US pilots isn’t.

“The problem is the pilots unions have objected to that because they say that then the companies will be looking over the pilots’ shoulders to make sure that they haven’t exceeded any of the airplanes’ capabilities,” he said.




http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...6&parent_id=26
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  #177  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:17 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/we...NEIL.html?_r=1

Early reports said the jet had gone down with 228 aboard in radio silence, in the middle of a towering tropical storm, untracked on any of the world’s radar screens and in a swath of ocean three times the size of Europe. If anything looked fated for a cliché Bermuda Triangle ending, with the deep refusing to yield up its secrets, this was it.

Interestimg article...
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  #178  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:19 PM
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Dgq5wD98PADTO2

Military ships and planes struggled in worsening weather Friday to find more bodies and debris from the Air France jet that likely cracked apart over the Atlantic Ocean. On the coast, investigators examined corpses and received the first wreckage: two plane seats, oxygen masks, water bottles, and several structural pieces, some no bigger than a man's hand.
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  #179  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
Cut from a long article here:http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...adical_Muslims

"Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.
It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.
A source working for the French security services told Paris weekly L'Express that the link was "highly significant".
Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.
There is a possibility the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence", the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously".
France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan."

It will all be revealed in time. I don't care who blames the crash on the pilot, the weather or some Pitot tubes. The tubes and the weather are cover stories because there were other passenger jet flights the same night through the same storm which didn't crash.
There are also no crashes of the Airbus 330 attributable to Pitot tube malfunctions.

It is looking more and more like the reluctant French are slowly edging the world into the truth-There were known terrorists on board the flight, and the plane exploded in mid-air.

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I don't believe this for an instant. There was bad weather, nothing more. What is it with you? Must you scare everyone from flying? Other articles have said there were no terrorist attacks. Why must you keep bringing it up?
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  #180  
Old 06-13-2009, 06:58 PM
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I don't think terrorist connections might scare me anymore than faulty parts, pilots who don't get enough sleep or other "accidents" waiting to happen.

It's all scary but it all needs to be looked at. I'm glad that some aren't simply chalking it up to bad weather because that will happen to most of us during a flight.

We can't change the weather, but we could guard against terrorists blowing up planes.

I think it's an important issue. If it's found to not be true, that's fine, but obviously you can bet more than just people on this forum are taking the possibility seriously.
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  #181  
Old 06-13-2009, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintr View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/we...NEIL.html?_r=1

Early reports said the jet had gone down with 228 aboard in radio silence, in the middle of a towering tropical storm, untracked on any of the world’s radar screens and in a swath of ocean three times the size of Europe. If anything looked fated for a cliché Bermuda Triangle ending, with the deep refusing to yield up its secrets, this was it.

Interestimg article...

Thanks Paintr for that beautifully written article. Boy, the NYT always comes thru.

The article mentioned that possibly hydrophones picked up the sound of exploding oxygen bottles.

Where are the hydrophones? And do they mean the oxygen supply that feeds the fall down oxygen masks that are above every seat in the plane? Where would these bottles be on the plane? Just trying to figure this out. xox
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  #182  
Old 06-13-2009, 08:59 PM
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Hydrophones are underwater microphones, used before sonar. They can convert a sound signal to an electrical signal. I'm surprised they're still around - never thought they could be of use today.
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  #183  
Old 06-13-2009, 09:15 PM
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Hydrophones are underwater microphones, used before sonar. They can convert a sound signal to an electrical signal. I'm surprised they're still around - never thought they could be of use today.
thanks Trino, So do you think this journo was implying these hydrophones were in place under the path of that airplane?
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  #184  
Old 06-13-2009, 09:18 PM
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=825245

In the photographs, the seats in the crew area were folded with the seatbelts hanging down, which "suggests that the crew was moving about the passenger cabin. If there had been an alert or a warning about a pending risk, the crew would have been seated," he said.

"They did not have the time to do anything," added the former pilot, who also recognised an orange first aid kit that was left intact.
Thanks so much for the update! I'm confused though about the photos. Are the photos taken of the debris that was recovered that still shows the crew seats being folded? It just seems remarkable that the folded seats/seatbelts would still be intact after the crash.
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  #185  
Old 06-13-2009, 11:49 PM
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http://www.cctv.com/program/worldwid...4/101715.shtml

Military ships and planes are continuing to search for bodies and debris from Air France Flight 447. The jet crashed into the Atlantic on June 1st with 228 people onboard.

The number of bodies retrieved still stands at 44.

Another six have been pulled from the Atlantic by French ships but won't become part of the official death tally until they are counted by Brazilian officials.
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  #186  
Old 06-13-2009, 11:50 PM
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a7nHuRxId3II

June 14 (Bloomberg) -- A merchant ship traveling between Uruguay and the United Kingdom found a “medium size” piece of debris from the Air France plane crash site in the Atlantic Ocean, the Brazilian military said yesterday.

The Gammagas, a ship sailing under the flag of Antigua and Barbuda, recovered the debris, which will be transferred to the Brazilian Navy, Vice Admiral Edison Lawrence told reporters in Recife, northeast Brazil. Lawrence didn’t say from which part of the plane the piece came.
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  #187  
Old 06-13-2009, 11:51 PM
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http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/2...ack-boxes.html

A French nuclear submarine reached the crash zone of Air France Flight 447 on Wednesday to join the search for the plane's black boxes, which may be the key to determining what brought the Airbus down in the sea off Brazil with 228 people on board.

The attack sub Emeraude plans to trawl 13 square miles (35 square kilometres) a day, using sonar to try to pick up the boxes' acoustic beacons or "pingers," French armed forces spokesman Christophe Prazuck said Wednesday.
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  #188  
Old 06-14-2009, 12:08 AM
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Here's the Brazilian navy's site. The press releases are in Portuguese, but the pictures are universal...

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/
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  #189  
Old 06-14-2009, 01:53 AM
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Here's the Brazilian navy's site. The press releases are in Portuguese, but the pictures are universal...

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/
Thanks Adnoid. What a story those photos tell. xox
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  #190  
Old 06-14-2009, 07:03 AM
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thanks Trino, So do you think this journo was implying these hydrophones were in place under the path of that airplane?
Maybe about 60 years ago. Certainly, not recently.
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  #191  
Old 06-14-2009, 07:04 PM
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http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1018090

A BURST of last-minute automatic messages sent by Air France Flight 447 included one about a problem with a rudder safety device, but that does not explain what sent the jet plunging into the Atlantic Ocean, an aviation expert said.



Meanwhile, the aircraft maker Airbus appealed for patience in speculating about the cause of the recent Atlantic plane disaster as Boeing came to the defence of its European rival’s A330 passenger jet.
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  #192  
Old 06-14-2009, 07:06 PM
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Dgq5wD98QN9R00

A Dutch ship towing a high-tech, U.S. Navy listening device was set to troll the Atlantic on Sunday in search of data and voice recorders that investigators say are key to determining what caused an Air France jet to crash in the Atlantic with 228 people on board.

The Navy device, called a Towed Pinger Locator, will try to detect emergency audio beacons, or pings, from Flight 447's black boxes, which could be lying thousands of feet (meters) below the ocean surface.
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  #193  
Old 06-14-2009, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezi View Post
I don't believe this for an instant. There was bad weather, nothing more. What is it with you? Must you scare everyone from flying? Other articles have said there were no terrorist attacks. Why must you keep bringing it up?
I posted that several days ago. I didn't write the column. I posted the link from whence it came. I believe you are attacking the poster.

Don't bother to reply. You and Painter are on Ignore.
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  #194  
Old 06-15-2009, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trino View Post
Hydrophones are underwater microphones, used before sonar. They can convert a sound signal to an electrical signal. I'm surprised they're still around - never thought they could be of use today.
Hydrophones are used all around the world; they are used to triangulate underwater noises, etc., etc.
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  #195  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
Cut from a long article here:http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...adical_Muslims

"Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.
It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.
A source working for the French security services told Paris weekly L'Express that the link was "highly significant".
Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.
There is a possibility the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence", the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously".
France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan."

It will all be revealed in time. I don't care who blames the crash on the pilot, the weather or some Pitot tubes. The tubes and the weather are cover stories because there were other passenger jet flights the same night through the same storm which didn't crash.
There are also no crashes of the Airbus 330 attributable to Pitot tube malfunctions.

It is looking more and more like the reluctant French are slowly edging the world into the truth-There were known terrorists on board the flight, and the plane exploded in mid-air.

Sadly
Maria
(bold above by me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tezi View Post
I don't believe this for an instant. There was bad weather, nothing more. What is it with you? Must you scare everyone from flying? Other articles have said there were no terrorist attacks. Why must you keep bringing it up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
I posted that several days ago. I didn't write the column. I posted the link from whence it came. I believe you are attacking the poster.

Don't bother to reply. You and Painter are on Ignore.
I have to think that perhaps it wasn't the article you cited that was being responded to, but rather your comments after the excerpt you posted, which I have bolded above..

Especially the part when you said,
"...the truth-There were known terrorists on board the flight, and the plane exploded in mid-air."
That and also the fact that every single post you have made in this thread except for this last one has alleged or alluded to terrorism and/or a conspiracy to suppress evidence of such.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm willing to at least consider the possibility that no foul play was involved. A reasonable person might conclude from your posts that you are not.
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Last edited by fortytwo; 06-15-2009 at 03:10 AM. Reason: add qualifier.
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  #196  
Old 06-15-2009, 04:15 AM
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To all

This is to all who have posted derisive comments to me about a now 5 day old news report and one post based upon the report ( 5 days taking the time zone differences into consideration).

The probable causes are a lot clearer now that more bodies and airplane parts have been recovered: A catastrophic crash and mass casualties were caused by either pilot error, or instrument failure with possible pilot error coming into play after one instrument system failed. Or that weather was the sole cause. There is also the possibility that O2 cannisters may come into play as a contributing cause. I don't know, you don't know, the collective " they" don't know. No one knows.

So, let me state my current position clearly and without wavering:
Terrorism is extremely unlikely and improbable. It was not prudent for a government to release information that there were names of passengers on the doomed flight linked to a terrorist watch list. The lack of burns on the bodies rules out a bomb as I know a bomb aboard an airplane to function.

There is NO single good answer as to what caused 228 people to perish. Most likely, unless the two recorders are recovered, we will not know why the plane went down or why the pilots didn't communicate the flight's extreme distress.

I don't appreciate anyone using a post I made 4 days ago and which was based upon news reports that day against me as a biased commentary from fellow posters today to indicate either ridicule or disgust.
Over 225 people died. Nothing we speculate or quote from internationally available sources will change the disastrous outcome of the flight.

However, we must treat each other civilly in discussing this or any other matter. We are mandated to do so by the WS TOS. If anyone wants to bash me personally, then find another forum. There are plenty of hate forums around, but WS is not one of them and never will be.

MARIA
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  #197  
Old 06-15-2009, 08:01 AM
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The recovery news has gotten a bit quiet.
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  #198  
Old 06-15-2009, 08:08 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...explosion.html

Bodies of Air France flight 447 victims show no signs of mid-air explosion
A mid-air explosion on board the doomed Air France flight 447 has all but been ruled out as the bodies recovered from the Atlantic Ocean have no traces of burns, it has emerged.
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  #199  
Old 06-15-2009, 08:10 AM
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http://www.montereyherald.com/world/...nclick_check=1

A pilots' union official says Air France has replaced the air speed sensors on its entire fleet of Airbus A330 and A340 long-haul aircraft.
Investigators looking into the crash of Air France Flight 447 last month have so far focused on the possibility that external speed monitors—called Pitot tubes—iced over and gave false readings to the plane's computers.
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  #200  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:01 AM
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...Used_In_Search

The recorders could be lying thousands of feet below the ocean surface.

Without them, it may be impossible to ever know what caused the crash several hundred miles off Brazil's north eastern coast.
1:31pm UK, Monday June 15, 2009

A high-tech US Navy listening device has been deployed to help search the Atlantic for the black boxes of a crashed Air France jet.


The tailfin of the Air France A330 jet unloaded in Brazil


The Towed Pinger Locator will try to detect emergency audio beacons, or pings, from Flight 447's flight recorders.

The Airbus A330 vanished over the Atlantic en route from Brazil to Paris on June 1, killing all 228 people on board in the worst aviation disaster in eight years.

The recorders could be lying thousands of feet below the ocean surface.

Without them, it may be impossible to ever know what caused the crash several hundred miles off Brazil's north eastern coast.





The locator device is capable of searching to a depth of 20,000ft (6,100 metres).

The first of two devices was towed in on Sunday by a Dutch ship contracted by France, said US Air Force Colonel Willie Berges, commander of the American forces supporting the search operation.

Col Berges said the locator device would start operating as soon as searchers were sure it would not interfere with a French nuclear submarine already searching for the black boxes.



Helicopter recovering jet debris

Another Dutch ship carrying a second listening device is scheduled to arrive no later than Monday morning, he said.

The ships will tow the locators in a grid pattern while 10-person teams watch for signals on computer screens.

......

The search area includes some of the deepest waters of the Atlantic - and in two more weeks the boxes' signals will begin to fade.
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