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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #1  
Old 06-11-2004, 08:22 PM
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Just a Ransom Note Quiz

I do believe that I would read every single scrap, scratch, mark and message contained in a ransom note that was left in my OWN home, when MY BABY has been taken out in the dark of night!

Am I nuts, or do you think you would have read the ENTIRE RANSOM NOTE, or just called the police??

BUT before you called the police, (a possibility in this case, that they called their brunch club -I take no credit for this another poster called them the 'brunch club')or immediately after you call the police you call your friends to come piling over. Who while there tidy up the kitchen, destroying possible clues and evidence.

Would you have called your childs name, screaming frantically for her, and looked in every nook and cranny of your home while holding a fireplace poker, broom, ball bat, heavy purse, flashlight, car jack handle, rolling pin, golf shoe with cleats, spray cleaner, or something in case you encountered this 'perp' in your own home?

Yet no, Burke slept peacefully, or so they said at first, not being awakened by the screaming of a FRANTIC scared spitless mother, (that would be me)

Lack of concern about JUST EXACTLY WHAT the ransom note said, equates in my pea brain to about equivalent to Scott Peterson leaving to hang up missing posters and sitting in his car 'actionless' for nearly an hour. Hmmm.
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Old 06-11-2004, 08:54 PM
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Great questions, Camper.

First, I would read the entire note before doing anything. Then I would immediately call the police on my cell phone, not a house line.

Yes, I would call them despite the threats in the note because it's my perception that the crude handwritten rambling letter is not consistent with a fancy criminal capable of high-tech scanning and scrutiny.

But of course I would tell the police about the threats and tell them to be very careful and inconspicuous.

Then I would gather up the rest of my family, sit down together somewhere and wait for the police, during which time I would be asking lots of questions.

I would not search the house, but would wait for the police to do it. I would not touch anything and would make sure no one else touched anything either.

And obviously duh and double-duh I would not invite anyone over nor even call anyone.
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Old 06-11-2004, 10:06 PM
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Rn

Of course, obvious questions come to mind when thinking about finding a ransom note like they did. After Patsy began to read it she probably got as far as directions to get $118,000, then panicked. She calls John with the news, then both probably started checking bedrooms, etc. John could have gone downstairs to make a quick check. At this point maybe they read the rest. John might have gone out the front or back looking for cars. Or they could have called the police after the quick house inspection, and began to look closer at the note at that point. It seems pretty obvious that they would check inside and at least look outside the front and back.
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Old 06-11-2004, 11:50 PM
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John seemed to be quite interested in what it said being that he was on all fours in the hall reading it on the floor. Patsy had a miraculous way of knowing what it said without even reading it when she spoke to the 911 operator.
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:37 AM
Maikai Maikai is offline
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Yes, you're nuts.....

[quote=Camper]
Am I nuts, or do you think you would have read the ENTIRE RANSOM NOTE, or just called the police??

[quote]

A normal reaction is to do what Patsy did.......once you read we have your daughter, run and check and when she's not in her room, panic and call police. When John came down to see what was going on, I believe Patsy raised the part about not calling police......and they both quickly decided to call 9ll and ask for help. They had no way of knowing what was ahead. Why would you think to check the house when there is a note saying they took your daughter and wanted ransom money? Another normal reaction is to call friends for help---the Smart's did the same thing.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:59 AM
Blazeboy3 Blazeboy3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
I do believe that I would read every single scrap, scratch, mark and message contained in a ransom note that was left in my OWN home, when MY BABY has been taken out in the dark of night!

Am I nuts, or do you think you would have read the ENTIRE RANSOM NOTE, or just called the police??

BUT before you called the police, (a possibility in this case, that they called their brunch club -I take no credit for this another poster called them the 'brunch club')or immediately after you call the police you call your friends to come piling over. Who while there tidy up the kitchen, destroying possible clues and evidence.

Would you have called your childs name, screaming frantically for her, and looked in every nook and cranny of your home while holding a fireplace poker, broom, ball bat, heavy purse, flashlight, car jack handle, rolling pin, golf shoe with cleats, spray cleaner, or something in case you encountered this 'perp' in your own home?

Yet no, Burke slept peacefully, or so they said at first, not being awakened by the screaming of a FRANTIC scared spitless mother, (that would be me)

Lack of concern about JUST EXACTLY WHAT the ransom note said, equates in my pea brain to about equivalent to Scott Peterson leaving to hang up missing posters and sitting in his car 'actionless' for nearly an hour. Hmmm.
Camper, you're not nuts! I would have read the whole note carefully and IMHO most mothers would especially ones that are home most of the time w/their kids. I experienced one of my 4 kids missing and I was all over the house inside and then outside non-stop(luck was on my side and she was hiding in the closet) ANYWAY ...Yup...I'm reading the same page you are (same chapter/same book of life)... excellent observation BUT MOST DON'T GET IT ... HUM? IMHO if I were Patsy and I had just called 911 because my baby was gone, I would not be thinking of nothing else (no friends ...notta thing BUT MY BABY) ...

Patsy sure was SURE THAT HER FRIENDS WERE NOT GUILTY OF TAKING HER BABY wasn't she ...WHY? HOW DID SHE KNOW THEY WERE INNOCENT? TO KNOW IF ONE IS INNOCENT IS TO KNOW WHO IS GUILTY IMHO!

How was Patsy so able to focus (got to call friends) UNLESS SHE HAD A PLAN (premeditation/thoughtful thinking/planning while she was cancer-striken/bedridden that whole year thinking of how she/they could become rich/famous in a negative/positive way to save the world? (maybe?))...in JonBenet's name of course; remember Patsy's statement that JonBenet would never have to know what it was like to have cancer or to feel the pain of loosing a child, and that she was in a better place, etc.,; IMHO this was Patsy's way of justifying what she thought/did/created as she played GOD/JUDGE/JURY with JonBenet and her life...
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Old 06-12-2004, 04:20 AM
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Imo

I've thought about this often. I honestly don't know what I would do. I think I would most likely crumble, become hysterical. I think my cool-headed hubby would take charge. He would most likely want to phone the police but I think there would be a battle between us over this which would cause a delay. I think I would go crazy. We did actually lose out older daughter on holiday when she was 3 years old. We'd been on the beach in Italy and were packing up for the day. She had a sweet wrapper and we told her to go and put it in a nearby bin - we returned our attention to packing up. What happened was that she got engrossed nin watching some other children on the way to the bin that she tripped and fell into a hole some kids had dug in the sand. When she stood up, she was disorientated and continued walking - but in another direction. We quickly noticed she was gone but started searching in the wrong direction. I really was hysterical very quickly. For what seemed like hours, we searched shops and walked about calling her name - to no avail. Eventually, we decided that the police needed to be contacted. So we went back to our hotel and the hotel manager took charge (he was fantastic). Seemingly, this is an everyday occurrence in this resort and they have a wonderful recovery system! There is a central telephone number for reporting missing and found children. Nico, the Hotel manager was very scathing that anything might hapen to our little girl. He said "In Italy we love our children". Sure enough, within minutes, our daughter was located at an old folks home about a mile away! A worker had found our daughter wandering on her own and had taken her back to her home and called the central hotline. In the meantime, they fed her ice-cream and pop and kept her amused. Apparently, the old folk thoroughly enjoyed having a young visitor!

The experience only lasted an hour, but it was a nightmare and I was a wreck.

The only thing I am certain that I would do is waken the other children and grill them. Everything else is anyone's guess!
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2004, 08:15 AM
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Hmmm

Quote from Maikai - "A normal reaction is to do what Patsy did.......once you read we have your daughter, run and check and when she's not in her room, panic and call police. When John came down to see what was going on, I believe Patsy raised the part about not calling police......and they both quickly decided to call 9ll and ask for help. They had no way of knowing what was ahead. Why would you think to check the house when there is a note saying they took your daughter and wanted ransom money? Another normal reaction is to call friends for help---the Smart's did the same thing.

Your sense is that Patsy, did not want to call the police, then why would she call her friends to 'come over'?
Tell me what help the Friends would be?


WHY did they NOT call what turned out to be their very best friends the Stines to come over? Remember they stayed with the Stines for a lengthy period of time AFTER the murder. IF Maikai if you can believe what you believe, then I can believe that the Stines were very good friends BEFORE the murder, which Ramseys deny as being a fact. I would have called my MOM! You know what, MOM would have MADE me read the ransom note to her, EVERY SINGLE WORD. My best friend had I called her would have MADE me read every single word of the ransom note to her.

Also when someone has been kidnapped from the family home, there is typically a sign of forced entry.

Not to look around the house is a speculative thought, from someone who perhaps has never had little children in the home, who do indeed play pranks. One of whom was still sleeping/not sleeping.
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:20 AM
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The Ramseys originally claimed that they called their friends over to help search the area and the neighborhood.

Of course, once they arrived, Patsy had them preparing coffee, etc. and fussing over her. Nobody has ever claimed that they tried to do any searches, etc. and they were never asked to do so either.

No search was ever done.
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:16 AM
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The "Brunch Club" was invited over as a deversion and Ive always felt,as an "image" thing.Like,"look at what solid,upstanding INNCOCENT people we are......everyone loves us,our Minister is here,all our wonderful friends who belive in us blah blah blah"plus theyre great witnesses AFTER the fact (they could testify in Court just how distraught Patsy was!) and act as de facto witnesses to JBR being located.


I think it started as J & P thinking they'd only invite maybe The Fleet's and/or just The Fernies but you know Patsy! The guest list grew because well theres just people you cant NOT invite isnt there?
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:31 AM
Maikai Maikai is offline
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Now Barbara....

there you go exagerating things again. Patsy wasn't directing anyone to do anything----he victim volunteers were the ones tidying things up, and getting lunch. The house WAS searched by Officer French--the first police officer on the scene. Remember that? Once the police got there, they were in charge. Linda Arndt was told the house had been searched. They just missed the cellar room. I think everyone's focus initially was trying to set things up waiting for the ransom call, and seeking leads on who was angry or upset with the Rameys, or needed money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara
The Ramseys originally claimed that they called their friends over to help search the area and the neighborhood.

Of course, once they arrived, Patsy had them preparing coffee, etc. and fussing over her. Nobody has ever claimed that they tried to do any searches, etc. and they were never asked to do so either.

No search was ever done.

Last edited by Maikai; 06-12-2004 at 10:46 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:41 AM
Maikai Maikai is offline
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Originally Posted by Camper
[b] Your sense is that Patsy, did not want to call the police, then why would she call her friends to 'come over'?
Tell me what help the Friends would be?


WHY did they NOT call what turned out to be their very best friends the Stines to come over? Remember they stayed with the Stines for a lengthy period of time AFTER the murder. IF Maikai if you can believe what you believe, then I can believe that the Stines were very good friends BEFORE the murder, which Ramseys deny as being a fact. I would have called my MOM! You know what, MOM would have MADE me read the ransom note to her, EVERY SINGLE WORD. My best friend had I called her would have MADE me read every single word of the ransom note to her.

Also when someone has been kidnapped from the family home, there is typically a sign of forced entry.

Not to look around the house is a speculative thought, from someone who perhaps has never had little children in the home, who do indeed play pranks. One of whom was still sleeping/not sleeping.
Patsy said in an interview that when John came down she was saying what do we do? what do we do? It says not to call the police......and John told her to call the police--a decision they said they both came to simultaneously.

I don't know why they didn't call the Stines, but that's not even relevant. Patsy's mother was in Atlanta. It wasn't a child's prank--JBR could barely read, let alone write a note like that. The Ramsey response was entirely correct, considering the panic they were facing at the time. They trusted the police to do the right thing. They did check Burke......at that point in time, they wanted immediate help---they had no idea what to do, or have the presence of mind to conduct their own investigation inside the house looking for clues.
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maikai
there you go exagerating things again. Patsy wasn't directing anyone to do anything----he victim volunteers were the ones tidying things up, and getting lunch.
Now Maikai,

There you go, minimizing things again. The Ramseys initial rationale for calling everyone over to the house was to have them comb the neighborhood for their missing daughter.

That is no exaggeration. As far as Patsy, she was coherent enough to know she needed her "friends", but incoherent enough to ask them to help look for JonBenet? She was coherent enough to dial all those numbers to her friends.

In a situation like that, I can't imagine not getting many wrong numbers as your hands are shaking and you are beside yourself with worry and such. Patsy was able to manage.

What a woman!
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maikai
Patsy said in an interview that when John came down she was saying what do we do? what do we do? It says not to call the police......and John told her to call the police--a decision they said they both came to simultaneously.

I don't know why they didn't call the Stines, but that's not even relevant. Patsy's mother was in Atlanta. It wasn't a child's prank--JBR could barely read, let alone write a note like that. The Ramsey response was entirely correct, considering the panic they were facing at the time. They trusted the police to do the right thing. They did check Burke......at that point in time, they wanted immediate help---they had no idea what to do, or have the presence of mind to conduct their own investigation inside the house looking for clues.
BTW Maikai,

We know where Nedra was. Where was Grandpa Paugh? Do you have any information regarding his itinerary that day?
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:48 AM
Maikai Maikai is offline
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Grandpa Paugh

was also in Atlanta...he had left a day or two before, I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara
BTW Maikai,

We know where Nedra was. Where was Grandpa Paugh? Do you have any information regarding his itinerary that day?
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:39 PM
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Out of focus

Maikai, you posted " I don't know why they didn't call the Stines, but that's not even relevant. Patsy's mother was in Atlanta. It wasn't a child's prank--JBR could barely read, let alone write a note like that. The Ramsey response was entirely correct, considering the panic they were facing at the time. They trusted the police to do the right thing. They did check Burke......at that point in time, they wanted immediate help---they had no idea what to do, or have the presence of mind to conduct their own investigation inside the house looking for clues."

Point by point
1. I think it was relevant on NOT calling the Stines, whom I believe were their BEST friends.

2. Burke could write so could the Stine boy, the boys were best friends.

3. At a time of crisis normal folks reach out to family loved ones for help, are you saying Patsy might not love or trust her mom for any 'kind' of help?

WE, meaning websleuthers really do not know just exactly when grandpa left Boulder, same as with JAR's exact movements to and from Boulder.

Alright the purpose of this thread was to understand WHY parents would NOT READ the ENTIRE ransom note, BEFORE they did any phone calling, and especially AFTER THEY CALLED THE POLICE.

We are led to believe rightly or wrongly that the only time they scanned the note was in a panic BEFORE they called the
Police. I have read nothing about the 'brunch club' asking to see the ransom note, or reading it aloud to each other, or even talking about the note, am I wrong here?

I just personally find it ODD that I would not have read the WHOLE NOTE, shaking, crying, and trying to figure out the WHO was that wrote it and the WHY of it.
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:58 PM
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The way John and Patsy have treated that note from the 26th on has been very important to consider.

First, I find it curious that neither John nor Patsy can recall just WHERE that note was the moment Patsy informed John that it existed.
If we are to believe Patsy when she says she came down those spiral stairs that morning, saw the 3 pages of note lying on the stair tread and then turned around to 'read' what it said - some questions NEED to be asked and answered. They are not that hard.
Did Patsy bend down and read the note or pick up the page(s)?
If she bent down to read it - HOW could she see as it was so dark?
If she picked it up to read what it said - WHERE did it land when she ran back up the stairs screaming for John??? Did she throw it down? Carry it with her?
Where did John FIRST see that note?

It's inconceivable to me that neither of them can remember what transpired with that note. The note was the ONLY connection to their daughter and who had her and where she might be.
For Patsy to say she read "through it a bit" - and not "I poured over it again and again trying to find ANY CLUE as to who might have her and where she might be" Same with John.

Both distanced themselvs from that note from the beginning other than to use it in a cursory way until it acheived it's intended goal of diverting attention away from what really happened.
Once that was accomplished - they seemed to forget it even exisited.
Or defended it as being legitimate as Patsy did on the CNN interview the day after they buried JonBenet when she exclaimed, "Well it seemed like a kidnapping to me." AFTER she knew her daughter had never been taken from their home!! She KNEW the note was a lie. Yet she continued to try and act as if it were true - I guess still hoping everyone else would too.

Detective Linda Arndt said that during that morning at the Ramsey house everyone was discussing just WHO may have written that note etc. Everyone sitting there - except John Ramsey that is. He was silent.
Completely unrealistic and unbelievable.

The Ramseys should have poured over that note all day hoping to find any clue they could as to who might have JonBenet. Yet they seemed to just distance themselves from it instead.
They didn't wake Burke. They didn't search their house but "a bit". They didn't search outside. They didn't run to neighbors and plead for any info they might have as to something they may have seen or heard in the night.
They didn't pay much attention to the note - the only thing the said kidnapper left behind. The only connection to their daughter.
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:13 PM
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26th

Quote:
Originally Posted by messiecake
I think it started as J & P thinking they'd only invite maybe The Fleet's and/or just The Fernies but you know Patsy! The guest list grew because well theres just people you cant NOT invite isnt there?
Are you suggesting that after a night where their daughter was accidently injured, then killed, or deliberately killed, that the Ramseys convened their social group vainly thinking that they had to keep up appearances? That after participating in their daughter's killing A/O coverup, they wouldn't be in a near panicked or psychotic state for their friends to see as well as the BPD? That after planning an elaborate coverup that their lives depended on, they would sit around as the BPD and friends looked for answers.
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicktor
Are you suggesting that after a night where their daughter was accidently injured, then killed, or deliberately killed, that the Ramseys convened their social group vainly thinking that they had to keep up appearances? That after participating in their daughter's killing A/O coverup, they wouldn't be in a near panicked or psychotic state for their friends to see as well as the BPD? That after planning an elaborate coverup that their lives depended on, they would sit around as the BPD and friends looked for answers.
You means thats NOT what they did????
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
WE, meaning websleuthers really do not know just exactly when grandpa left Boulder, same as with JAR's exact movements to and from Boulder.
True, Camper, good point, and what we do know of JAR's alleged alibi, it was less than ironclad - nothing that couldn't have been faked or manipulated or lied about... and why was John spending all that money on lawyers for such distant family anyway?

Oh, small epiphany: could it be that the reason John excluded Paugh from the lawyering shelter was because Paugh was the abuser in this drama and John wasn't about to protect him? Hmmm, that would explain a whole lot, wouldn't it?

Anyway, if sleuthers are willing to dismiss Burke's free pass by BPD, why not dismiss JAR's and Paugh's free passes as well? I know, Burke was known to be IN the house... but... do I really have to bring up the lame police work again?
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
Not to look around the house is a speculative thought, from someone who perhaps has never had little children in the home, who do indeed play pranks.
I have had little children in the home, but I still think I would call police immediately after reading the (whole) note, thereby preserving any crime scene if one existed. I would want the police to sort it out even if it turned out to be a prank by one of my kids, on the theory that the police presence would tend to discourage the prankster from planning any future pranks.

But this approach, which is based on preserving the crime scene, is obviously completely inconsistent with hosting a brunch.
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Old 06-12-2004, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicktor
Are you suggesting that after a night where their daughter was accidently injured, then killed, or deliberately killed, that the Ramseys convened their social group vainly thinking that they had to keep up appearances?... That after planning an elaborate coverup that their lives depended on, they would sit around as the BPD and friends looked for answers.
Yes, exactly, that was an important part of the elaborate coverup... appearances... performances... staging.

They needed an audience. And they needed insulation from police questioning, people who could do some of their talking for them (it wouldn't look good to have their lawyers on the scene just yet). They needed to create distraction and confusion. They needed to destroy the crime scene and add a whole bunch of physical evidence to the investigation.

They called the Whites and Fernies because they were more expendable than the Stines. The Whites and Fernies could easily be thrown under the bus ("it has to be an inside job") when that physical evidence started creating questions. But Miz Stine, Devoted Pit Bull, was needed for post-crime protection (and protect she did).

In the words of my friend the defense attorney: All I have to do is confuse.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:37 PM
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Britt

Britt you posted, "They called the Whites and Fernies because they were more expendable than the Stines. The Whites and Fernies could easily be thrown under the bus ("it has to be an inside job") when that physical evidence started creating questions. But Miz Stine, Devoted Pit Bull, was needed for post-crime protection (and protect
she did).


Britt, I donut recall anyone ever touching such a fine chord about the 'WHY' Stines were not called. Outstanding thinking.

I am beginning to wonder if any remaining relatives in the Atlanta area, had any problems with family incest? It is a quiet crime as I read, and now a potential suspect is dead, and any other victims will most likely be as quiet too.

No lawyering for Mr. Paugh by John, but John provided lawyering for those who 'might' be in the know.

Odd, imop.

I continue to think that the ongoing investigative adventures are a face saving activity. I would hope with all sincerity that this is not so, but I fear I may be correct.

Tricias, Ramsey honesty web site, is a big case in point.
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Old 06-12-2004, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper

Am I nuts, or do you think you would have read the ENTIRE RANSOM NOTE, or just called the police??

I would have read the note briefly and then searched the house quickly from top to bottom and outside. I would then have wakened Burke and quizzed him about JonBenet's possible whereabouts before calling the police. Then I'd have read the note over and over again, looking for a clue in it while waiting for the cops to arrive. At that time the note was the only piece of evidence.

However, we know now that that's not even close to the way things likely went down, because we know the Ramseys were lying about Burke being asleep in his room while the 911 call was being placed by Patsy. The Ramsey's version of events that morning lost all credibility with that conspiratoral lie among John, Patsy and Burke. Why lie about Burke's whereabouts during the Ramsey's crucial initial contact with law enforcement? What were they hiding?

JMO
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2004, 06:43 PM
Barbara Barbara is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrab
I would have read the note briefly and then searched the house quickly from top to bottom and outside. I would then have wakened Burke and quizzed him about JonBenet's possible whereabouts before calling the police. Then I'd have read the note over and over again, looking for a clue in it while waiting for the cops to arrive. At that time the note was the only piece of evidence.

However, we know now that that's not even close to the way things likely went down, because we know the Ramseys were lying about Burke being asleep in his room while the 911 call was being placed by Patsy. The Ramsey's version of events that morning lost all credibility with that conspiratoral lie among John, Patsy and Burke. Why lie about Burke's whereabouts during the Ramsey's crucial initial contact with law enforcement? What were they hiding?

JMO
Wow Bluecrab,

I have goosebumps on my arm. I was just sitting down to my computer to make a new thread asking where you were and if you were okay.

Whew! Glad to see you posting.
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