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  #76  
Old 06-08-2006, 10:44 AM
Charlie Charlie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
Charlie, when I get into a in depth conversation about a criminal case, I'd like to have facts to talk about. Since it was MANY years and MANY MANY cases ago that I read the facts of this case, I'm not in a position to do so. You can accept that or not as you like, but it doesn't change the fact. I told you that what I do remember is that everything I read and saw made me believe they were guilty. I also told you that I have seen nothing since that time to change my mind. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but you'll have to deal with that yourself.
Jeana i dont want to get into big thing about it, but i dont understand why you would bother posting on this topic if u dont have anything to say about it other than they are guilty case closed....its seems odd to me that u make a point of posting on this case yet dont feel compelled to dicuss the case with the rest of us...I enjoy reading others members opinions about cases as it sometimes makes me look at the case from a whole different perspective, you could even say thats what the point of the forum is, to convey our ideas to each other and make the puzzle complete.
  #77  
Old 06-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Jeana i dont want to get into big thing about it, but i dont understand why you would bother posting on this topic if u dont have anything to say about it other than they are guilty case closed....its seems odd to me that u make a point of posting on this case yet dont feel compelled to dicuss the case with the rest of us...I enjoy reading others members opinions about cases as it sometimes makes me look at the case from a whole different perspective, you could even say thats what the point of the forum is, to convey our ideas to each other and make the puzzle complete.

Never said case closed. That's what this forum is here for. I want you to talk about to your heart's content. I think I said I studied it at lenght a LONG TIME ago and what my opinion was. I'm the moderator of this forum and sometimes posters want to know where I stand. So, I posted my opinion and now its up to ya'll to talk. So . . .talk.
  #78  
Old 06-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Originally Posted by dasgal
Ok, this is one of the cases I have to say they fowled up on. No way do I believe these kids are guilty. I believe it was Daddy all the way.

He's a creepy little man, isn't he???
  #79  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:29 AM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Yeah, he is pretty creepy. Did you see the second documentary DP? I suspected him before, but the second doc just sealed the deal for me. Not anything that the DOC said, but just by his own actions, and weird circumstances. It seems his wife mysteriously died as well.
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  #80  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasgal
Yeah, he is pretty creepy. Did you see the second documentary DP? I suspected him before, but the second doc just sealed the deal for me. Not anything that the DOC said, but just by his own actions, and weird circumstances. It seems his wife mysteriously died as well.

Yeah, I've got the VHS.
  #81  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:45 AM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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You've seen it and you really don't think Daddy did it? I'll be honest that I have not studied the transcripts. I'm wondering what it was that made you decide that the boys did it. I know about the confession, but that kid is shy most of his marbles. What besides that did it for you? Just curious.
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  #82  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasgal
You've seen it and you really don't think Daddy did it? I'll be honest that I have not studied the transcripts. I'm wondering what it was that made you decide that the boys did it. I know about the confession, but that kid is shy most of his marbles. What besides that did it for you? Just curious.

LOL You'll have to read the rest of this thread to catch up with the discussion!!! I think Daddy is a weird weird dude with loads of problems, but I don't think he did it. You were a cop. You know how one sided some things can seem. That video was designed to make people think that he did it and take away from the three boys' guilt.
  #83  
Old 06-08-2006, 12:07 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Do you really think so? I thought it was pretty unbiased. Anyhoo, I'll take your advice and read the thread from the start.

I'm kinda surprised though that this one doesn't have it's own forum. Of all the old conviction cases out there, this one seems to have a pretty massive amount of vocal doubters.
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  #84  
Old 06-08-2006, 12:33 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Ok, I went back and read, however it just jogged my memory on other disturbing aspects of the case, like Dad's teeth. The dude gets his teeth yanked right after the trial, but before the bite determination is made by the FBI advisor (sorry can't remember all the details exactly), and then proceeds to make up no less that four stories as to why and when they were extracted.

As far as "someone" saying Daddy had been paid a "lot" of money to act strange, and was paid more for being weirder......well this is why hearsay is not allowed in court. I just can't take any stock in that unless I see some sort of documentation. Sorry Tricia, I'm sure you are aces, but I just can't take this seriously.

And yes, Damien obviously has some "issues". Did you see the family interviews? The kid never stood a chance of not being weird. IMO his interest in the occult was to strengthen him in a world and a future he felt powerless over. I certainly don't believe it made him want to go out and perform mayhem on the Byers boy (specifically) and kill his boyhood friends. I met a few self professed Satanist when I was working for Wise County. I found them to be nothing more than sad kids from a less than nurturing background.
(Thier crime was kicking over gravestones). Beyond that, they were cowards. They talked big, but the very fact that they chose the particular religion only goes to show their true need for self empowerment. A mess in the mind to be sure, but there has never been any evidence that Satanists are any more prone to murder than Christians. Even when you set it up in a per ratio senerio. In fact, just the opposite is true.

Now, lets go back and look again at Daddy. The one to receive the most butchering was the Byers kid. This would point to a more personal interest in this particular child. Doesn't it make more sense that "Daddy" would be more inclined to be more personal with this particular victim than the WM3?
I can't remember what exactly now, but didn't Dad give the HBO team a knife that could potentially match the wounds, and didn't this knife have blood on it that couldn't be traced because of age or something? I remember Daddy being pretty quick on the draw to claim he accidentally cut himself.
And Mom......Weird how she just decided to take a zillion sleeping pills one day. Maybe not suicide, and maybe not homicide, but it's one of those things you can't help but throw in the pile.

Anyhoo, besides singling out the youngest, most frightened, most mentally ineffective child and getting him to confess, I don't see how the State has one decent peice of evidence against these kids.
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  #85  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:12 PM
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Amy Noel Amy Noel is offline
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During Baldwin and Echols' trial, the defense introduced an exhibit labeled for identification purposes as the "John Mark Byers Knife." John Mark Byers gave this Kershaw knife to filmmakers Berlinger and Sinofsky as a Christmas gift. They in turn gave the knife to police in early January after they observed what appeared to be dried blood in the knife's hinging mechanism (Berlinger and Sinofsky). Tests determined that the material on the knife was human blood, matching the type of both John Mark and Chris Byers. In "Transcript of 1994 Police Interview with John Mark Byers," Byers first claimed he had never used the knife, and then recalled having used it on several occasions to trim his toenails and once in an attempt to cut deer meat. He vehemently denied that there was any reason whatsoever for the existence of human blood on the knife (1). However, as documented in Paradise Lost, when Byers took the stand in Baldwin and Echols' trial, Byers claimed the reason there was blood on the knife was that he had cut his thumb on it. He claimed that he must not have remembered having cut himself at the time of his interview with police (Berlinger and Sinofsky). Because of the blood on the knife being of the type belonging to both John Mark and Chris Byers, the results were inconclusive. Police and prosecutors were concerned enough about the blood on the knife to postpone Miskelley's trial pending the test results (Berlinger and Sinofsky).
Read more about this and other aspects of this case @ http://http://p210.ezboard.com/bwes...threediscussion
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  #86  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:25 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Thank you Amy. I didn't remember the whole gist of it but you covered it beautifully. I honestly don't understand how anyone can believe these kids did it. Sorry Tricia and Dp, but perhaps you need to go back and revisit this. It's not a defeat. Sometimes the law screws it up. I was the law, so I can tell you this with little shame. Better to get it right, I say.
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  #87  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:28 PM
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http://www.wm3.org/live/contact/messageboard.php hopefully this link works!
sorry!!!
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  #88  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:31 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Thank you Amy but I can't get thru. I had a friend who wanted to do a book on this. I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.
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  #89  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:35 PM
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I also wanted to tell everyone who posts here, that sometimes I get a little too emotional about this case and it comes out in my posts. I do not mean to offend anyone here. And I hope that I have not. Please don't take it personaly. This is just a case that I have very strong feelings about. And I tend to get very upset when discussing the details. Again please don't let me offend anyone, thats not my intention.
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  #90  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:46 PM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasgal
Thank you Amy but I can't get thru. I had a friend who wanted to do a book on this. I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.



Lots of us do.
  #91  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:48 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Here is the thing Amy, and you can take this from the mouth of an old dog...

Defense of the innocent is ALWAYS RIGHT. If you have to stand on the rooftops, scream into every camera you see, do it. It's better to side in error, than it is to let an innocent go to his death. I will always stand up for that. Our founding Fathers did, and it's good enough for me.

The problem arises in really knowing. You have to really educate yourself, but if you have, I say sing your song as loud as you can.

Can you imagine a day if you let someone go to their death and you hadn't said your piece? Can you imagine how bad you would feel? Foget all the people who disagreed with you. You have to live with yourself. You know what you did, and what you didn't do.

You have no obligation to enter any of this, but if you do, you are gonna have to make peace with it. You don't have to find an opinion and stick with it, but you do need to find an opinion at the end and make your own mind right with it.

So many people forget that we have the power. We have the powe to inact change. We have the power to demand that things be looked at further. We have the power to have this knife looked at more. Why not? It's my tax dollar. I don't wan't to hear some lazy Judge tell me he has a party to attend that day. I worked for these guys. I know the deal.
I'd rather rackle and piss off a hundred judges, before I would see a 20 year old go to his death because he wore black clothing.
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  #92  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:49 PM
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Good link to veiw some of the inconsistencies in the case http://p210.ezboard.com/fwestmemphis...iscussionfrm37
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  #93  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:53 PM
Jules Jules is offline
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This case has always baffled me and I flip-flop on who I think did it. I have read the books, but it's been years ago. Initially, I thought the kids did it. Then, at some point, I thought it was Byers.

I'm going to have to go back and do some reading. It would be awful if the kids were wrongly convicted.

Anyone know where Byers is now?
  #94  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:57 PM
dasgal dasgal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)


Lots of us do.
I have no idea what that means. Does it mean you can't get to the link? Does it mean you dont' believe this? I don't understand this.
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  #95  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:02 PM
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Amy Noel Amy Noel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasgal
Here is the thing Amy, and you can take this from the mouth of an old dog...

Defense of the innocent is ALWAYS RIGHT. If you have to stand on the rooftops, scream into every camera you see, do it. It's better to side in error, than it is to let an innocent go to his death. I will always stand up for that. Our founding Fathers did, and it's good enough for me.

The problem arises in really knowing. You have to really educate yourself, but if you have, I say sing your song as loud as you can.

Can you imagine a day if you let someone go to their death and you hadn't said your piece? Can you imagine how bad you would feel? Foget all the people who disagreed with you. You have to live with yourself. You know what you did, and what you didn't do.


You have no obligation to enter any of this, but if you do, you are gonna have to make peace with it. You don't have to find an opinion and stick with it, but you do need to find an opinion at the end and make your own mind right with it.

So many people forget that we have the power. We have the powe to inact change. We have the power to demand that things be looked at further. We have the power to have this knife looked at more. Why not? It's my tax dollar. I don't wan't to hear some lazy Judge tell me he has a party to attend that day. I worked for these guys. I know the deal.
I'd rather rackle and piss off a hundred judges, before I would see a 20 year old go to his death because he wore black clothing.
AMEN! Thanks Dasgal!

I wish the DNA test results were completed. I don't understand what is taking so long? They were filed on 06/02/04? I guess it is a very tedious Legal process that has to be followed to the "T". But meanwhile their are 3 men in prison, 1 on death row... (13 years)! Can't they put a "rush" on this?
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  #96  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:04 PM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasgal
I have no idea what that means. Does it mean you can't get to the link? Does it mean you dont' believe this? I don't understand this.

You said:

I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.


I said Lots of Us Do.
  #97  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:06 PM
tennessee tennessee is offline
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I think that these kids were not guilty. I remember when these murders happened and have read about them and been to the wm3 website. In my opinion, the father should really be looked at and considered suspect number one.
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  #98  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:10 PM
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Amy Noel Amy Noel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
This case has always baffled me and I flip-flop on who I think did it. I have read the books, but it's been years ago. Initially, I thought the kids did it. Then, at some point, I thought it was Byers.

I'm going to have to go back and do some reading. It would be awful if the kids were wrongly convicted.

Anyone know where Byers is now?
John Mark Byers posts at this message board http://www.wm3.org/live/contact/messageboard.php
his screen name is Kizza Myaz .

He was in jail...
Here is a little history on "JMB"
  • 1970s. "I can remember quite vividly the day that I came to from the comatose state I had overdosed in my parents home. . ." PL2, church sermon. "Marijuana, I've tried coke, and some pills. . . just experimented as a teenager going to college." PL2, pre-polygraph interview.
  • 1973. Byers threatened parents with butcher knife. Police called in. Threatened to cut the throat of the officer. DK, p. 299.
  • 1980s. Ex-wife stated that Byers beat her and her children. Reported to Ron Lax, quoted in DK. p. 205. Melissa Byers father said, Mark Byers "beat Melissa up more than once; he blackened her eye." DK, p. 311.
  • September 1987. Conviction for threatening to kill his ex-wife. Three years probation. Wife cited previous death threats. p. 20-21. 149
  • 1990. Sued for disappearance of $65000 in jewelry. Not held liable.
  • July 1992. Arrested for conspiracy to commit felony cocaine and possession of dangerous weapon, Memphis. No time served. DK p 46
  • December 1992. Investigated for the disappearance of $11000 in gold watches. Byers confessed. No charges brought. DK, p. 22, above note.
  • 1994. West Memphis police have 13 outstanding warrants against Byers for bad checks. Reported by KAIT8 News, as shown in PL2. (Twelve outstanding warrants reported in DK) No time served.
  • September 1994. Mark and Melissa Byers jailed for stealing $20,000 in antiques. The complainant had her motor home burn down, cause undetermined. Ordered to pay restitution, banished from area.
  • September 1994. Contributing to delinquency of a minor. Providing a minor a folded knife to use as a bruising weapon. Byers held a .22 rifle to insist the fight take place. Sentenced to one year in jail. Ordered to pay half of hospital bills, $2000. No time served.
  • 1994. Restraining order by Kingsbury's after Mark bruised their child. Kingsbury's stated that the Byers had threatened them. Bullet holes appeared in their trailer, the source undetermined. DK p. 299 and 390.
  • 1996+. "I got in a DWI after my wife was murdered." PL2.
  • June 1998. Convicted of writing a bad check. One year suspended sentence. DK, p. 305.
  • April 1999. Sells Xanax to undercover officer. Five year prison sentence, sentence suspended. DK p. 306. With this judgment, prior probation is revoked and he is sentenced to eight years for the prior crimes of burglary and inciting a fight. He served fifteen months
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  #99  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:21 PM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Thanks for the link Amy! Very interesting. I found another link at that link, although I haven't had time to read much of anything.

http://p082.ezboard.com/bmurderincorporated
  #100  
Old 06-08-2006, 05:28 PM
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Amy Noel Amy Noel is offline
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It seems like he gets off easy... doesn't it? I guess when you are having cookouts and barbecues with the local law enforcement, you get off for some things and they don't look at you to hard for others??? Pay close attention to 1996 when he stated his wife was murdered ? I thought he said it was suicide because she couldn't dealk with the loss of Chris? And ....September 1994 Contributing to delinquency of a minor. Providing a minor a folded knife to use as a bruising weapon. Byers held a .22 rifle to insist the fight take ....1994 Restraining order by Kingsbury's after Mark bruised their child.... and what about further back.... 1973 Byers threatened parents with butcher knife or 1980s Ex-wife stated that Byers beat her and her children... still even September 1987 Conviction for threatening to kill his ex-wife.
It kinda makes you wonder don't it?
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