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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Will this case ever be formally solved?
Yes - someone will have a eureka moment and spot a smoking gun 7 8.43%
Yes - someone will have a moment of conscience and confess all they know 9 10.84%
No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case 47 56.63%
No because it's hard formally to pin a crime on a dead person 20 24.10%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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  #276  
Old 08-07-2009, 05:44 PM
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Thanks for the lovely birthday post, Dave.
May the gods forgive me, Sophie, but I wish I hadn't done it!
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  #277  
Old 08-07-2009, 06:22 PM
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May the gods forgive me, Sophie, but I wish I hadn't done it!

I can understand why, Dave, but, amidst the bickering and tetchiness, you reminded us of the reality of this case: a lovely child should have grown into a lovely 19 year-old, enjoying college, working hard and playing hard, living away from home and learning the lessons that we all learn. You were, in fact, stepping back from the day-to-day debate, and I am so pleased that you did although I'm obviously sorry that a post that should have united RDI and IDI was the subject of such an unpleasant debate.

ETA: May the gods forgive me, I had forgotten it was JonBenet's birthday.

Last edited by Sophie; 08-07-2009 at 06:36 PM.
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  #278  
Old 08-07-2009, 07:05 PM
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I can understand why, Dave, but, amidst the bickering and tetchiness, you reminded us of the reality of this case: a lovely child should have grown into a lovely 19 year-old, enjoying college, working hard and playing hard, living away from home and learning the lessons that we all learn. You were, in fact, stepping back from the day-to-day debate, and I am so pleased that you did although I'm obviously sorry that a post that should have united RDI and IDI was the subject of such an unpleasant debate.

ETA: May the gods forgive me, I had forgotten it was JonBenet's birthday.
What's that old saying? No good deed goes unpunished.
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  #279  
Old 08-08-2009, 04:24 AM
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What's that old saying? No good deed goes unpunished.
So true,this should be posted on the Ramsey vs Steve Thomas thread as well.
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  #280  
Old 08-08-2009, 11:21 PM
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That was nice to remember JonBenet on her birthday and anyone on this day can use hate just don't care other than pushing buttons and just think some of the IDI's are what makes RDI's....
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  #281  
Old 08-09-2009, 01:36 AM
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That was nice to remember JonBenet on her birthday and anyone on this day can use hate just don't care other than pushing buttons and just think some of the IDI's are what makes RDI's....

There is no 'bringing IDI and RDI together' for a 'sentimental moment,' IMO. If the case were closed and it were known RDI, it would be a completely different story.

The case isn't closed, so it is probably distasteful for RDI to emote or express affection for the daughter on one hand while accusing her parents on the other hand. To have feelings for someone, to have affection for someone, dead or alive, means that you respect them and what their wishes would be if they were alive.

If IDI, then JBR's wishes would be that RDI does not honor her birthday, as if to express affection for her while speculating crassly on what they think her beloved parents did.

If RDI, then you're good to go. Just remember there's IDI's here that may occasionally object to what seems to be daily RDI faire.

If JBR's birthday is important, IMO that just means there's a little IDI left in you.

Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 08-09-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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  #282  
Old 08-09-2009, 10:12 PM
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I have no problem sharing a sentimental moment in memory of JB with any and all IDI. We all want the same thing....her killer(s) found and brought to justice. I would be just as happy to have it be an intruder. Actually, I'd be thrilled. None of us WANTS it to be the parents. There simply is more compelling evidence to us that points in that direction.
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  #283  
Old 08-10-2009, 07:00 AM
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Was thinking about the cord(neck ligature).It's been said it can't be traced to the house,right?JR said he didn't even notice the ligature when he brought her up from the basement,so we can assume he didn't touch it.Is this case solved if they find the R's touch DNA on it?We know he touched the wrists ligature but not the neck one.Is this fact or not.Of course he could change his statement and say he maybe did touch it.
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  #284  
Old 08-10-2009, 07:30 AM
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Actually, Madeleine, that's a great question. Bearing in mind the fuss made about the rope not originating in the house (or not having a match in the house which is an entirely different matter), Ramsey DNA on the rope would be fairly difficult to explain...
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  #285  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:44 AM
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Same with the tape.They say it can't be traced to the house.Why are PR's fibers on it then LOL.

They have to decide.Which is it,can these items be traced to the house which is bad for them or did the "intruder" bring them along and that's bad also.
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  #286  
Old 08-10-2009, 02:23 PM
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http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008...sor-in-ramsey/

Boulder DA ties hands of successor in Ramsey case
By Paul C. Campos Scripps Howard News Service
Saturday, July 19, 2008

I don't know if any member of the Ramsey family was involved in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, which puts me in exactly the same position as almost everyone else in the world -- a category that most emphatically includes Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy.

Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy. Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor. That at least is one explanation for the letter Lacy sent John Ramsey last week, absolving the Ramsey family of any involvement in the killing of his daughter, and apologizing for contributing "to the public perception that (anyone in the family) might have been involved."

The letter in effect declared the Ramseys innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. Under the circumstances, this is, to put it mildly, a bizarre conclusion.

Those circumstances include a great deal of evidence suggesting some sort of familial involvement in the crime. To believe otherwise requires accepting some version of the following theory:

Sometime between 10 p.m. Christmas night 1996 and the early hours of the next morning, an intruder slipped into the Ramseys' home, and, while the rest of the family slept, took JonBenet from her bedroom, sexually assaulted, bludgeoned, and strangled her, hid the body in a wine cellar in the basement, and then took the time to write both a draft and a final version of a three-page letter, demanding $118,000, which happened to be the exact sum of the bonus John Ramsey had received from his company earlier that year.

The killer then went back upstairs and placed the letter on a staircase, before slipping out into the night.

Apparently the only evidence supporting this extraordinary theory is some unidentified male DNA on the dead child's clothes, which doesn't match any of the family members.

Yet for reasons known only to herself (she has refused all requests for interviews) Lacy has concluded that, in her words, there "is no innocent explanation" for the presence of this DNA on the child's clothing, and that therefore the DNA belongs to the child's murderer.

It's difficult to describe the astounding leaps of logic required to come to that conclusion. On the other hand, simple deduction leads to a genuinely unavoidable conclusion: if the killer wrote the letter, the killer is someone who knew the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus.

In other words, of the approximately 5 billion 7 hundred million human beings alive on Earth on Christmas night 1996, Mary Lacy has constructed a theory that limits the possible suspects in JonBenet Ramsey's killing to those who knew the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus, and that furthermore assumes the killer's DNA has already been identified.

Given those assumptions it's difficult to understand why an arrest hasn't been made. (None of this even touches on the fact that even if one assumes the killer wasn't a family member nothing about the available evidence excludes the possibility of familial involvement in the crime).

Lacy should be required to answer a straightforward question. Why did she write this letter, given that it isn't part of her job description to be handing out public exonerations and apologies in open murder cases to people who any disinterested observer would conclude remain under reasonable suspicion?

Lacy leaves office in less than six months. Her reckless exoneration of the Ramseys has tied the hands of her successor, and made it even more unlikely that anyone will ever be brought to justice in this case.

To the many questions that have plagued the Ramsey case we can now add another: is Mary Lacy merely incompetent, or is something more disturbing going on?


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  #287  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:02 PM
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There is no 'bringing IDI and RDI together' for a 'sentimental moment,' IMO. If the case were closed and it were known RDI, it would be a completely different story.

The case isn't closed, so it is probably distasteful for RDI to emote or express affection for the daughter on one hand while accusing her parents on the other hand. To have feelings for someone, to have affection for someone, dead or alive, means that you respect them and what their wishes would be if they were alive.

If IDI, then JBR's wishes would be that RDI does not honor her birthday, as if to express affection for her while speculating crassly on what they think her beloved parents did.

If RDI, then you're good to go. Just remember there's IDI's here that may occasionally object to what seems to be daily RDI faire.

If JBR's birthday is important, IMO that just means there's a little IDI left in you.
I don't think you'd WANT to see what I'm like without those sentimental notions to keep me anchored, HOTYH.
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  #288  
Old 08-10-2009, 07:51 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008...sor-in-ramsey/

Boulder DA ties hands of successor in Ramsey case
By Paul C. Campos Scripps Howard News Service
Saturday, July 19, 2008

I don't know if any member of the Ramsey family was involved in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, which puts me in exactly the same position as almost everyone else in the world -- a category that most emphatically includes Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy.

Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy. Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor. That at least is one explanation for the letter Lacy sent John Ramsey last week, absolving the Ramsey family of any involvement in the killing of his daughter, and apologizing for contributing "to the public perception that (anyone in the family) might have been involved."

The letter in effect declared the Ramseys innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. Under the circumstances, this is, to put it mildly, a bizarre conclusion.

Those circumstances include a great deal of evidence suggesting some sort of familial involvement in the crime. To believe otherwise requires accepting some version of the following theory:

Sometime between 10 p.m. Christmas night 1996 and the early hours of the next morning, an intruder slipped into the Ramseys' home, and, while the rest of the family slept, took JonBenet from her bedroom, sexually assaulted, bludgeoned, and strangled her, hid the body in a wine cellar in the basement, and then took the time to write both a draft and a final version of a three-page letter, demanding $118,000, which happened to be the exact sum of the bonus John Ramsey had received from his company earlier that year.

The killer then went back upstairs and placed the letter on a staircase, before slipping out into the night.

Apparently the only evidence supporting this extraordinary theory is some unidentified male DNA on the dead child's clothes, which doesn't match any of the family members.

Yet for reasons known only to herself (she has refused all requests for interviews) Lacy has concluded that, in her words, there "is no innocent explanation" for the presence of this DNA on the child's clothing, and that therefore the DNA belongs to the child's murderer.

It's difficult to describe the astounding leaps of logic required to come to that conclusion. On the other hand, simple deduction leads to a genuinely unavoidable conclusion: if the killer wrote the letter, the killer is someone who knew the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus.

In other words, of the approximately 5 billion 7 hundred million human beings alive on Earth on Christmas night 1996, Mary Lacy has constructed a theory that limits the possible suspects in JonBenet Ramsey's killing to those who knew the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus, and that furthermore assumes the killer's DNA has already been identified.

Given those assumptions it's difficult to understand why an arrest hasn't been made. (None of this even touches on the fact that even if one assumes the killer wasn't a family member nothing about the available evidence excludes the possibility of familial involvement in the crime).

Lacy should be required to answer a straightforward question. Why did she write this letter, given that it isn't part of her job description to be handing out public exonerations and apologies in open murder cases to people who any disinterested observer would conclude remain under reasonable suspicion?

Lacy leaves office in less than six months. Her reckless exoneration of the Ramseys has tied the hands of her successor, and made it even more unlikely that anyone will ever be brought to justice in this case.

To the many questions that have plagued the Ramsey case we can now add another: is Mary Lacy merely incompetent, or is something more disturbing going on?


Which begs the question: why on Earth would you include inside information when you're attempting to frame a foreign faction?

It really makes no sense. There's nothing RDI can bolt on to that to magically make it sensible for JR or PR to do that.

What DOES make sense is someone calling attention to JR's bonus, as it clearly added to his label as a 'fat cat'.

Questions, anyone?
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  #289  
Old 08-10-2009, 07:57 PM
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Which begs the question: why on Earth would you include inside information when you're attempting to frame a foreign faction?

It really makes no sense. There's nothing RDI can bolt on to that to magically make it sensible for JR or PR to do that.

What DOES make sense is someone calling attention to JR's bonus, as it clearly added to his label as a 'fat cat'.

Questions, anyone?

Bravo. Fat Cat, Ramsey's, and $118 K seems very immature. But i would add foreign faction to that too. It sounds like a teenager or someone who has never entered the workforce.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:02 PM
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Bravo. Fat Cat, Ramsey's, and $118 K seems very immature. But i would add foreign faction to that too. It sounds like a teenager or someone who has never entered the workforce.
RDI has been pitching this idea that 'fat cat' is a pet name, without mentioning once that it is also a politically active expression. It is also used by people to refer to other people that they hate because of their wealth, power, privileges, etc.

If it were a 'pet name' as RDI suggests, then that would be yet another example of JR and PR including more intimate language in the RN while attempting to frame a foreign faction. Makes zero sense.
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  #291  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:17 PM
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RDI has been pitching this idea that 'fat cat' is a pet name, without mentioning once that it is also a politically active expression. It is also used by people to refer to other people that they hate because of their wealth, power, privileges, etc.

If it were a 'pet name' as RDI suggests, then that would be yet another example of JR and PR including more intimate language in the RN while attempting to frame a foreign faction. Makes zero sense.
I don't think that makes sense either. I also don't think that any real foreign faction could be taken seriously with a demand of $118k. I think it would have to be a kid of couple of kids who had desires of being a foreign faction like a Trenchcoat Mafia or something. I think there is no doubt that $118 k is significant somewhat. I understand why RDI would pounce on it moreso for framing purposes. I get that. If a Ramsey were involved somewhat, I think the only logical information is that it was a teenage (or really young) lover of Patsy who did the deed.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:37 PM
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I don't think that makes sense either. I also don't think that any real foreign faction could be taken seriously with a demand of $118k. I think it would have to be a kid of couple of kids who had desires of being a foreign faction like a Trenchcoat Mafia or something. I think there is no doubt that $118 k is significant somewhat. I understand why RDI would pounce on it moreso for framing purposes. I get that. If a Ramsey were involved somewhat, I think the only logical information is that it was a teenage (or really young) lover of Patsy who did the deed.
Well at least thats an IDI theory. Thats what the case needs is more IDI theories because LE is swinging IDI these days.

How does the amount of 118K, the exact amount of JR's holiday bonus, help to frame a 'group of individuals representing a foreign facton'? Bells are going to go off relating to JR's bonus and that would draw attention to their finances and JR's company. It's not sensible for PR or JR to include a ransom amount same as his bonus if they were impersonating a foreign faction.

Had it not been for JBR's murder, nobody would know JR's bonus except JR his family, accountant, and his employer, right?

Again, from RDI perspective it makes absolute zero sense to include intimate insider language like JR's exact bonus amount or 'pet names'.

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  #293  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:51 PM
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How does the amount of 118K, the exact amount of JR's holiday bonus, help to frame a 'group of individuals representing a foreign facton'? Bells are going to go off relating to JR's bonus and that would draw attention to their finances and JR's company. It's not sensible for PR or JR to include a ransom amount same as his bonus if they were impersonating a foreign faction.

Had it not been for JBR's murder, nobody would know JR's bonus except JR his family, accountant, and his employer, right?

Again, from RDI perspective it makes absolute zero sense to include intimate insider language like JR's exact bonus amount or 'pet names'.

Agreed. I don't think it was a Ramsey or a foreign faction. I do think someone knew of John's bonus somehow. It may not be a direct friend or employee but someone who knew of them and was mesmerized by JBR. My opinion is that they/or he wanted JBR. While they/he was in the house that he was not sure how this was going to turn out. If he was caught in the act, he might just get a kidnapping charge but the goal was murder. The note was a ruse just in case. But who knows.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:02 PM
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Agreed. I don't think it was a Ramsey or a foreign faction. I do think someone knew of John's bonus somehow. It may not be a direct friend or employee but someone who knew of them and was mesmerized by JBR. My opinion is that they/or he wanted JBR. While they/he was in the house that he was not sure how this was going to turn out. If he was caught in the act, he might just get a kidnapping charge but the goal was murder. The note was a ruse just in case. But who knows.
Good point. In Colorado, the difference between kidnapping and murder is life and death. The note sets a kidnapping tone that will last up until the time JBR is sexually assaulted or murdered.

Their house presented an unusual case for an intruder in the house while the parent slept, because of two stairways leading from the upper floor to the main floor. One in front, and one in the rear.

It is on the rear stairs where the RN was found, and the RN was long. I always thought the length of the note represented a delay so that the intruder would not be interrupted or caught by surprise in the basement or kitchen.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:31 PM
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Didn't Nedra refer to JR as a "fat cat" sometimes?
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  #296  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:31 AM
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There is no 'bringing IDI and RDI together' for a 'sentimental moment,' IMO. If the case were closed and it were known RDI, it would be a completely different story.

The case isn't closed, so it is probably distasteful for RDI to emote or express affection for the daughter on one hand while accusing her parents on the other hand. To have feelings for someone, to have affection for someone, dead or alive, means that you respect them and what their wishes would be if they were alive.

If IDI, then JBR's wishes would be that RDI does not honor her birthday, as if to express affection for her while speculating crassly on what they think her beloved parents did.

If RDI, then you're good to go. Just remember there's IDI's here that may occasionally object to what seems to be daily RDI faire.

If JBR's birthday is important, IMO that just means there's a little IDI left in you.

Yes, there is some IDI in me...I try to look at all sides here in then end I just want justice for JonBenet...And trust me when I get what I'm working on done it will not point to the R's for one time....This is all about scenarios right well I'm working on one....And to me the best way to look at this case for me is RDI and IDI mixed.....
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:17 AM
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Didn't Nedra refer to JR as a "fat cat" sometimes?

Well I have read that Nedra did call JR a fat cat...
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:48 PM
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Which begs the question: why on Earth would you include inside information when you're attempting to frame a foreign faction?
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If it were a 'pet name' as RDI suggests, then that would be yet another example of JR and PR including more intimate language in the RN while attempting to frame a foreign faction. Makes zero sense.
I don't think they knew WHO they were trying to frame. I've often said that they were trying to cover all possible bases.

Or do you think it's an accident that the first people they pointed to were people who WOULD know those intimate details? (Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!)
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:54 PM
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Again, from RDI perspective it makes absolute zero sense to include intimate insider language like JR's exact bonus amount or 'pet names'.
It makes perfect sense, if they already had a "fall guy" in mind.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:45 PM
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It makes perfect sense, if they already had a "fall guy" in mind.
Nice try, but they were framing a small foreign faction, remember?

How to frame a local 'fall guy with insider information' on one hand, while framing a 'group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction' on the other?

It is an inarguable inconsistency in RDI theory, where JR or PR is attempting to frame a foreign faction while including inside information that literally only a handful of people would know. Neither JR or PR would be inclined to include this information whether or not it was a collaborative effort.

Using this logic, I'm surprised PR didn't just sign the note 'mom'. I mean, if they were mixed up enough to include personal inside information, why not forget the RN is supposed to be anonymous??

This inconsistency is not unlike PR misspelling advise when the RN author did not. RDI has the claim 'deliberate' misspelling or 'she panicked and remembered how to spell' to handle these inconsistencies in the RDI theory. They're still inconsistencies, though.

Unsupported claims don't make the inconsistencies go away. They are still there.

Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 08-11-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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