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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Will this case ever be formally solved?
Yes - someone will have a eureka moment and spot a smoking gun 7 8.43%
Yes - someone will have a moment of conscience and confess all they know 9 10.84%
No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case 47 56.63%
No because it's hard formally to pin a crime on a dead person 20 24.10%
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  #101  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:45 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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Patsy was by all accounts an untidy person. The whole family was not in the habit of putting things back in their places. All the R housekeepers have said the same things.
Patsy didn't leave the pineapple bowl out deliberately nor did she forget to hide the evidence. It simply was not in her practice to put those things away and she never thought it would play a part in the crime investigation.It wasn't something she was worried about or gave a second thought to. Unlike the flashlight, which was possibly the bludgeon used to fracture JB's skull and was very likely the "strange, moving light" seen in the kitchen by a neighbor. The wiped down batteries fairly screams family involvement to me. No intruder needs to wipe the batteries.
Believe me, the Rs were very surprised to see pineapple show up in the autopsy report. A simple bedtime snack, one she'd probably eaten many times before, all of a sudden becomes something to deny. Why? because they had to stick to their statement of JB being asleep when they got home and never being seen awake and alive again. This despite BR own statement that his sister walked into the house carrying presents.
What was the big deal with saying she was awake and had a pineapple snack? The way I see it, it brought the time of death too close to their arrival home for an intruder to have done it.
The lies became like ripples in a pond. One lie had to led to another.
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  #102  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Do you seriously believe their decision to call 911 at 6 AM instead of later was influenced by their flight plan?
Damn skippy! For reasons which I will make clear momentarily.

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They're writing fake ransom notes to BPD and FBI but they cant make a simple phone call to their pilot?
And tell him WHAT? Okay, let's walk through this. Let's say they did call him. They cancel the flight. Are they ALSO going to call their extended family in Michigan who are coming to meet them there? Just what would the Rs tell them, anyway? That would have to be one darn good story!

Not to mention the possibility of one of the neighbors rising early and wondering why they hadn't left.

Or they don't cancel. JR tells him, "listen, you can take the day off. I'll fly us to Michigan." A few days later JB turns up dead. The guy's going to get hinky. Even if he doesn't, the rest of the family will when they don't show up, because there's no way the Rs can go now.

I've given this a LOT of thought, HOTYH. It's not like I just pulled it out of my nether regions (which you seem to suggest). And even then, I can't take credit for it. It was my ever-loving brother, of all people, who pointed all of this out to me!

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Thats absurd.
Is it now?
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  #103  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:04 PM
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I actually think you massively under-estimate Patsy. She was a bright woman, if not an especialy good liar.

But again, you miss the point: Patsy was TRYING to disguise herself. The fact that she failed is irrelevant. The Ramseys also weren't professional criminals so there is nothing that weird about wiping down one thing and over-looking another: it's actually how most staged crimes are solved.

However, if you are bothered by inconsistencies etc, perhaps you'd like to explain whence your latest visit in socialism. Since I've been on here, we've had kings and queens beheading people, a visit to the Middle East and now Socialism.

RDI may lack a unified theory and bicker about specifics but we can't hold a candle to your meanderings, petxxx
I love it!
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  #104  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:07 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Is it now?
Uh, sort of. There's been a lot of discussion by RDI on the unacceptability of calling 911 in violation of the ransom note. But you're explaining that there was no way to aviod calling 911 at 6 AM, as they would otherwise blow their cover. Is that right?
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  #105  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:07 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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I love it, too!
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  #106  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
The 'unprofessional' 2nd ligature 'too loose to do anything'.
Darn right.

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Maybe have another look at that ligature because it had the potential of fully controlling two arms and a leg...of an adult.
Yeah, sure. I could break out of that without even trying!

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RDI has never claimed PR was trying to appear a socialist but this is clearly socialist jargon.
Actually, I HAVE said that. Well, not exactly. I've said that whoever wrote it was throwing chunks of every kind of terrorism in there. And it's not hard to find socialist jargon in Boulder, HOTYH. We ARE talking about the home of Ward Churchill, don't forget.

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Don't take my word for it, a FBI profiler said 'revolutionary connotations harking back to foreign powers'.
Look again, HOTYH. That was Clint Van Zandt, and in that same interview he said it was someone trying to SOUND revolutionary. You'll have to do better than that.

"Don't take my word for it." Best advice you could have given!
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  #107  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:20 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Darn right.



Yeah, sure. I could break out of that without even trying!



Actually, I HAVE said that. Well, not exactly. I've said that whoever wrote it was throwing chunks of every kind of terrorism in there. And it's not hard to find socialist jargon in Boulder, HOTYH. We ARE talking about the home of Ward Churchill, don't forget.


Look again, HOTYH. That was Clint Van Zandt, and in that same interview he said it was someone trying to SOUND revolutionary. You'll have to do better than that.

"Don't take my word for it." Best advice you could have given!
I'll buy that. Somebody WAS trying to SOUND revolutionary.
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  #108  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:22 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Yeah, sure. I could break out of that without even trying!
Break? As in break the cord? Are you sure?
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  #109  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:24 PM
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I love it, too!
Yeah, Sophie's hitting them out of the park! She and I should team up:

The Anglo-American Connection!
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  #110  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:04 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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And it's not hard to find socialist jargon in Boulder
Like VanZandt noted the RN has revolutionary connotations, you've noted it has socialist jargon.

TY
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  #111  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Like VanZandt noted the RN has revolutionary connotations, you've noted it has socialist jargon.

TY

I learn new things everyday..Can you please explain socialist jargon to me...
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  #112  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Uh, sort of. There's been a lot of discussion by RDI on the unacceptability of calling 911 in violation of the ransom note. But you're explaining that there was no way to avoid calling 911at 6 AM, as they would otherwise blow their cover. Is that right?
You talk as though the two were mutually exclusive. They are not, not by a long shot. Allow me:

But you're explaining that there was no way to avoid calling 911 at 6 AM, as they would otherwise blow their cover. Is that right?

I guess the best way to explain it is this. I'll put it in a nutshell:

What you have to understand is that because they had the trip planned out, and because so many people knew they were going, once the killing happened, accidental or not, they were cornered.

Make no mistake, I believe that they always intended to call 911 in direct violation of the RN. Doing so gives a reason why JB was found dead. We've been over that before, MANY times. But the possibility of having their cover blown made it so they had to call then. Indeed, I can't help but wonder if that consideration prompted the RN in the first place.
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  #113  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
I'll buy that. Somebody WAS trying to SOUND revolutionary.
You mean we actually agree on something? Wow.
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  #114  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:24 AM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
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Hiya Hotyh.

RDI wise, if they were accomplices, they had all the time in the world, they could have feigned illness, Christmas is flu season. Only the decay of JBR's body would have necessitated immediate action, if the goal was for her body to be 'found/returned' for proper burial.
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  #115  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Break? As in break the cord? Are you sure?
I didn't say "break." I said "break OUT." As in, find a way out. Although, I have been lifting weights an hour a day for two years. Who knows?
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  #116  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Like VanZandt noted the RN has revolutionary connotations, you've noted it has socialist jargon.

TY
Don't put words in my mouth, HOTYH. I just said that it wouldn't be hard for someone in Boulder to pick up revolutionary rhetoric. Don't go making more of it than it is.
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  #117  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:30 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Hiya Hotyh.

RDI wise, if they were accomplices, they had all the time in the world, they could have feigned illness, Christmas is flu season. Only the decay of JBR's body would have necessitated immediate action, if the goal was for her body to be 'found/returned' for proper burial.
I was going to post 'call in sick' to the pilot, relatives.

RDI, much to learn from you they have.
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  #118  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:35 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Don't put words in my mouth, HOTYH. I just said that it wouldn't be hard for someone in Boulder to pick up revolutionary rhetoric. Don't go making more of it than it is.
Wha? That the RN has revolutionary rhetoric in it? Thats exactly what I'm trying to say, and what VanZandt said. The fact that he said it in another context doesn't make it false.

IOW the observation that there is revolutionary or socialist jargon in the ransom note is correct. The conclusion that it was put there by someone pretending to be a revolutionary is false.

Maybe you should consider the finer, more subtle points of the ransom note: "we respect your business but not the country that it serves".

In socialism, a business does serve the country.
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  #119  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:37 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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"victory" "fat cat" " group of individuals" " not the country that it serves"....hotyh...can you give me one,just one example where these terms are "clearly" used by a socialist?
....why would "a small foreign fraction" have interest in brutally slaughtering a child?
...why?....where's the motive,the gain ?
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Victory:

In his 1915 article "On the Slogan for a United States of Europe", Lenin stated the following: "...Uneven economic and political development is an absolute law of capitalism. Hence, the victory of socialism is possible first in several or even in one capitalist country alone. After expropriating the capitalists and organising their own socialist production, the victorious proletariat of that country will arise against the rest of the world ...". Again, in 1918, he wrote, “I know that there are, of course, sages who think they are very clever and even call themselves Socialists, who assert that power should not have been seized until the revolution had broken out in all countries. They do not suspect that by speaking in this way they are deserting the revolution and going over to the side of the bourgeoisie. To wait until the toiling classes bring about a revolution on an international scale means that everybody should stand stock-still in expectation. That is nonsense.” (Speech delivered at a joint meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the Moscow Soviet, 14th May 1918, Collected Works, Vol. 23, p. 9.).

Victory! FBI agent Clint VanZandt stated has revolutionary connotations that hark back to foreign powers.





According to sociologist James Chowning Davies, political revolutionaries may be classified in two ways:
  1. According to the goals of the revolution they propose. Usually, these goals are part of a certain ideology. In theory, each ideology could generate its own brand of revolutionaries. In practice, most political revolutionaries have been either liberals, nationalists, socialists, communists, fascists or anarchists.
  2. According to the methods they propose to use. This divides revolutionaries in two broad groups: Those who advocate a violent revolution, and those who are pacifists
---------------------------------------------------------------------
fat cat:

"We simply wish to point out that these privileges and disparities are built into the capitalist system and that the whole edifice has to be abolished , not just the unpalatable parts . "


Fat Cat Capitalism, The Socialist Courier

----------------------------------------------------------------------
group of individuals:

"State power can never, therefore, be held by an individual or a group of individuals..."

Arguing for Socialism by Andrew Levine

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Done.
A fellow poster put me to work last night and I was very happy with it. Bumping it up for SD.
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  #120  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
Hiya Hotyh.

RDI wise, if they were accomplices, they had all the time in the world, they could have feigned illness, Christmas is flu season. Only the decay of JBR's body would have necessitated immediate action, if the goal was for her body to be 'found/returned' for proper burial.
Excellent Tadpole! You just outlined another factor to consider: they had to do SOMETHING with the body. Whether or not it was important to have the grand funeral (voynich uses the term "wedding with death, and I think he's spot on), they couldn't just do nothing.

TY!
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  #121  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
I was going to post 'call in sick' to the pilot, relatives.

RDI, much to learn from you they have.
Uh-huh. And just how would THAT explain JB turning up dead?

Yeah, there's much to learn all right.
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  #122  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:54 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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http://peoplesequityunion.blogspot.c...s-schools.html

"I will concede that within a socialist economy, we would probably not call anything "business school". A better name for it, perhaps, would be "socialist economic operations" and in the ideal world, from an early age there would be a great deal of overlap and continuity between work experience, work study, home study and classroom learning."

No wonder the RN author couldn't even spell business! Or, write a dollar sign you can actually read.
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  #123  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Wha? That the RN has revolutionary rhetoric in it? Thats exactly what I'm trying to say, and what VanZandt said. The fact that he said it in another context doesn't make it false.
Just so we understand each other.

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IOW the observation that there is revolutionary or socialist jargon in the ransom note is correct. The conclusion that it was put there by someone pretending to be a revolutionary is false.
That's where we have to differ.

Quote:
Maybe you should consider the finer, more subtle points of the ransom note
Oh, the finer, subtle points need consideration, all right.

Quote:
In socialism, a business does serve the country.
Yes, I know that. And I still think you're reading in to it.

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A fellow poster put me to work last night and I was very happy with it. Bumping it up for SD.
Well, you really shouldn't have gone to that trouble for me. (And I mean that!) I've read it all before, which is one reason why it's not making a dent now.
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  #124  
Old 08-02-2009, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
http://peoplesequityunion.blogspot.c...s-schools.html

"I will concede that within a socialist economy, we would probably not call anything "business school". A better name for it, perhaps, would be "socialist economic operations" and in the ideal world, from an early age there would be a great deal of overlap and continuity between work experience, work study, home study and classroom learning."

No wonder the RN author couldn't even spell business! Or, write a dollar sign you can actually read.
But if PR wrote the RN then she used her left hand and tell me what Mother would write a pratice RN and then set there and tell the LE yes, I wrote that this is why the LE asked her to write with her left hand....
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  #125  
Old 08-02-2009, 01:01 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Uh-huh. And just how would THAT explain JB turning up dead?

Yeah, there's much to learn all right.
I'm sorry, but the issue was why the R's chose to call 911 at 6 am instead of later. NOT how they explained JBR being dead.

The idea is that they could've called 911 hours later, called in sick to the pilot and family, and pretended to be complying with the RN.
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