2009.07.30 Document Release

[Hollys G-mom]

Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns

Really? Are you sure? I'll admit that I don't fully understand all the nuances of the SunShine Law but I thought that everything that was shared between the defense and prosecution was fair game for "sun-shining." I thought the court only intervened if a motion was made to withhold. For example, there are a few (?) "tips" that are certainly not relevant. MOO

Yes, but there are various motions to surpress. Why not Jesse's records? SA didn't bother to try to surpress? Defense sure doesn't want to. SO there you go.

[impatientredhead]

Originally Posted by yolorado

FL's sunshine laws are far too invasive. Release should be limited to only AFTER the trial and, perhaps, only to information directly related to the trial. FL should change these intrusive laws to protect witnesses and innocent bystanders. Absolutely no SS or phone numbers should be released. Addresses should probably also be redacted. Otherwise, there will be a lot less co-operation with the authorities when people think their private lives could be laid bare for all to see and use just because they saw a crime or knew someone who committed one. The legislature really should do something. The broad scope of FL's sunshine statutes does not protect the rights of the innocent!

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

BBM:
Yet everyone LOVES it when they contain documents that make the case AGAINST Casey!

The Sunshine Laws in their current form were voted in by the residents of the state. The issue has been brought forward several times to make changes to the liberal distribution of information and any effort to tighten the rules have been voted down everytime. As long as they get to vote on I think it is fine. I wouldn't live there, but they should do it how they see fit.

[Hollys G-mom]

Originally Posted by The Eunice Burns

Keeping my eye on the ball here.....wouldn't a motion for blocking the docs need to have been filed? No one filed such a motion. The only things that were blocked were the video of KC's reaction on Dec. 11 and the autopsy photos. I think if JG and his family had something to hide, there would have been a motion pertaining to these docs. And I fail to see how these docs are relevant at all to the As camp trying to pin this on JG. All these docs show is that he was not cut out for the force and has some maturity issues. I'm sure there would be a long line of young men who would be in the same boat. But the man offered to raise a child not his own after being duped! Quite a guy. Goes to character, IMO. And, as has been stated numerous times here.....the guy took a polygraph. Did the As? BTW, I love the letter from the FBI to Lamarr......what we all knew for many months, but to see it in stark black and white! That all those other people questioned that the As and KC had in their sights took polygraphs. And then......voila. The three who refused were the A family. Priceless!

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

[Imbackon]

Originally Posted by okiedokietoo

You are right, I remember that - what was that about? Don't remember where I heard it.

GRACE: And is it true that you had at some point a teddy bear that once belonged to little Caylee and you presumably channeled information through that?

LUCAS: No, I didn`t channel. I`m not a channeler. I`m a…

GRACE: OK, did you have a teddy bear that belonged to Caylee?

LUCAS: Yes. Oh, yes. They mailed it to me.

GRACE: Did you use it in any way?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I touched the teddy bear and…

GRACE: Right. And what happened when you touched the teddy bear?

[Tuffy]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

Exactly!

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Two things stood out to me in today's releases. The first is the unfairness that Jesse and the Grund family are having to endure. I pray that the other innocents that were acquainted with Casey won't have to pay the same high price!!

The other is Cindy's responses to what seemed to be a boiler-plate questionnaire that the FBI gave her. It seemed to be directed to gathering a general history about Casey; her frame of mind, reaction to social situations, sexuality and kinda common sense things you would want to know about a suspect. I would guess, without going back and actually making a chart, that Cindy told more about herself than she did Casey. Over and over again. I learned, from Cindy's responses, that Casey is perfect ~ and she's that way because Cindy is too. How can this be so blatant and the person involved not realize it? I'm still in a bad mood from reading it!! Did anyone else notice the same thing ~ that it's all about Cindy?

[MaedchenX]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

Try the fact that they were all, each and every one, implicated at one time or another by any number of the Anthony family for being responsible for what happened to Caylee. Yeah, they really had nothing to prove

[Imbackon]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

Ah, so you are saying JG's butt is not on the line?
Why would the Anthony's butt be on the line?
So far, no one has thrown them under the bus, but they have JG!

[Tuffy]

Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns

Two things stood out to me in today's releases. The first is the unfairness that Jesse and the Grund family are having to endure. I pray that the other innocents that were acquainted with Casey won't have to pay the same high price!!

The other is Cindy's responses to what seemed to be a boiler-plate questionnaire that the FBI gave her. It seemed to be directed to gathering a general history about Casey; her frame of mind, reaction to social situations, sexuality and kinda common sense things you would want to know about a suspect. I would guess, without going back and actually making a chart, that Cindy told more about herself than she did Casey. Over and over again. I learned, from Cindy's responses, that Casey is perfect ~ and she's that way because Cindy is too. How can this be so blatant and the person involved not realize it? I'm still in a bad mood from reading it!! Did anyone else notice the same thing ~ that it's all about Cindy?

I did.

[Imbackon]

Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns

Two things stood out to me in today's releases. The first is the unfairness that Jesse and the Grund family are having to endure. I pray that the other innocents that were acquainted with Casey won't have to pay the same high price!!

The other is Cindy's responses to what seemed to be a boiler-plate questionnaire that the FBI gave her. It seemed to be directed to gathering a general history about Casey; her frame of mind, reaction to social situations, sexuality and kinda common sense things you would want to know about a suspect. I would guess, without going back and actually making a chart, that Cindy told more about herself than she did Casey. Over and over again. I learned, from Cindy's responses, that Casey is perfect ~ and she's that way because Cindy is too. How can this be so blatant and the person involved not realize it? I'm still in a bad mood from reading it!! Did anyone else notice the same thing ~ that it's all about Cindy?

Yes, people noticed. That's why she has been referred to as a narcissist.
Here is part of page I read on narcissism just to try to figure CA out.
Boy did this stand out to me
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it
This is from http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

[RR0004]

Originally Posted by mitzi

Bold mine.

BINGO!!!

ETA: Re-read this, and to clarify, IMO, GA and CA refused to take the lie detector test because they were afraid they would be found out as liars, and (IMO) quite possibly one or both had something to do with Caylee's disappearance and/or murder.

...and all I kept thinking was "What have you done?!"...and I'm talking about the group collectively!

[magic-cat]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

would love to see that link...

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Yes, but there are various motions to surpress. Why not Jesse's records? SA didn't bother to try to surpress? Defense sure doesn't want to. SO there you go.

You are right, Hollys G-mom. There are various motions to suppress. But your previous post sounded like you thought the judge could just suppress something/anything that he thought was not relevant. It is my understanding that no one made a motion to suppress. Obviously, the defense has no benefit from doing this. And neither does the prosecution (it only shows how well they've investigated all "persons of interest"). That leaves Jesse out there alone with his lawyer. $$$ It all costs $$$. I don't have the impression that the Grund family is any more well-to-do than I am and I know it would take all my savings to help my child if he were in Jesse's position. The more time a lawyer spends on a case the more it costs. I guess the Grunds had to weigh everything out and pray that it would be clear (as it seems to be to most of us) that Jesse's record of his life's experiences would speak for itself well. And I think that it has. I resent the fact that so many of Casey's acquaintances are having to bear this same burden ~ both the expense of the lawyers and the horrid expose of all of the intimate details of their lives ~ just because they knew Casey. Don't you feel some empathy for them, too?

[RR0004]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

And here I thought it was SOP when a child goes missing to rule the family out. I'll go by what people like Mark K. and John W. adhere to...do anything to help find the missing child!

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Originally Posted by RR0004

And here I thought it was SOP when a child goes missing to rule the family out. I'll go by what people like Mark K. and John W. adhere to...do anything to help find the missing child!

A thanks isn't enough, you need an "Amen!" for that. It says it all.

[Tuffy]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

I would like to see that link. I wonder why the FBI would say that, yet require applicants for the position of Special Agent to pass a polygraph. The FBI also has a division for polygraphs.

http://jackson.fbi.gov/applican.htm

[christee]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

BBM
Go ahead and post the link. But I'll need a minute to pick from the many LE related websites there are to choose from supporting the use of lie detector tests. I just don't think LE would waste time using this investigative tool if it was only a "co-ersion tactic". I'm not LE but isn't coercion frowned upon?

The As not wanting to take one tells me they didn't want to risk exposing their, uh, backsides-so to speak.:blushingsmiley:

JMO

[kageykaren]

Originally Posted by Imbackon

Yes, people noticed. That's why she has been referred to as a narcissist.
Here is part of page I read on narcissism just to try to figure CA out.
Boy did this stand out to me
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it
This is from http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

I thought you would get a charge at the banner below. I'm feeling CA is the queen Narcissist and KC narcisisst princess as the narcissist feels they are.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by 100%Agave

Just out of curiosity, has anyone checked to see if there is a Mariott Hotel close to Busch Gardens? The closest Mariott I can find is 12 miles away from Busch Gardens. Also unless Busch Gardens has changed drastically since I was last there, I don't remember there being hotels in the park (Disney, Universal, and maybe Islands of Adventure have those). There was another one about 10 miles but it is a Residence Inn which is usually extended stay.

I know this is not important really but it just struck me that I think Cindy said that Casey said they were staying at the Mariott in Busch Gardens and I couldn't even think of one within walking distance of the park much less inside the park.

The Marriott is just around the corner from Busch. I stayed there while my DD had surgery at Shriners. However, when we attended an out patient appt in Feb this year, it had been sold and now has a generic sounding name.

Oh and it is on Fowler, which is the main road before turning left to BG not in the park itself. It had a regular shuttle to Busch, and you 'could' walk, but Fl heat would make that quite a hike.

[The Eunice Burns]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

BBM Thank you. You proved my point.

[ThoughtElf]

Originally Posted by Hollys G-mom

BBM Don't forget folks that the Judge could have blocked these documents about Jesse had he felt it was not relevant.

Respectfully, I don't think Judge Strickland had a lot of leeway with these docs under the Sunshine Law.

Regardless, I feel that while I will not read these personally, it will inevitably benefit the prosecution that these docs were released. Thus, I don't personally believe that the SA's office wanted Judge Strickland to rule on these documents, else they would have filed a motion against the release citing impact on the prosecution's case.

Not worth filing a motion over when the prosecution knows that there is no singular detail in any of these reports that lends a shred of credence towards the Soddi defense, so why bother? Certainly, I would guess that several members of the SA team are as repelled by this release as some of us are, but they also know that this helps their case. I am also of the opinion that they discussed this release and warned JG in advance. Probably many months ago when JB requested these reports/reviews. Likely around the time when JG finally hired an attorney.

The defense request for these reports clearly shows not only the willingness by them to muddy up the waters with irrelevant and 'frivilous' (I believe that was JB's latest favourite word quote,) but also points to desperation in their attempts to bolster the meek & meager SODDI agenda.

I am very willing to entertain any factual argument you might have that illustrates how these reports are relevant, if you have the time and are so inclined? I'm not so concerned with Judge Strickland's failure to secret these files when no request was made by the prosecutors to do so.

I am interested in any and all points within the review reports that you can isolate for our consideration that might be significant in casting new light on what happened to Caylee?

Judge Strickland couldn't have withheld these docs lacking a motion asking to do so. No motion is telling in itself, IMO.

I guess what I am saying is that if you think these reports are relevant, please point out specifics within the JG review reports for discussion.

Judge S. isn't and can't post here, but you can & are. Lacking his assessment of what is useful whether a motion is filed or not, perhaps you can guide me?

How are these reports relevant in any way to Caylee's demise? (In your own determination, not a presumption of Judge Strickland's thoughts.)

Thanks in advance for helping clarify the significance of the reports, because I don't get it.

[Leila]

Originally Posted by essies

Video on Documents Released In Casey Anthony Case - Kathi B talks about Jesse and what the defense might be planning!!

http://www.wftv.com/video/20225606/index.html

Very interesting! It's been clear from the beginning that CA has been trying to implicate someone else in Caylee's disappearance, and her focus has been on JG and AH. Once Caylee's remains were found, Cindy has made other statements publicly that someone else is to blame for Caylee's death. She's had JG in her sights for a long time.

I feel so bad for JG............he's been thoroughly investigated by LE and obviously is not a suspect. But that hasn't deterred the defense or the Anthonys from going after him. They continue in their attempts to place the blame on an innocent party. It's so unfair to publish JG's employment records, school grades, and other personal information that has no bering on the case whatsoever.

After this is over, I think we'll see some civil lawsuits filed.

With LA and CA both making depositions, I wonder if these will be released publicly as other depos have?

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Originally Posted by christee

BBM
Go ahead and post the link. But I'll need a minute to pick from the many LE related websites there are to choose from supporting the use of lie detector tests. I just don't think LE would waste time using this investigative tool if it was only a "co-ersion tactic". I'm not LE but isn't coercion frowned upon?
The As not wanting to take one tells me they didn't want to risk exposing their, uh, backsides-so to speak.

JMO

Love where your heart is, christee, and agree with everything except I'm not real sure LE wouldn't use coercion to get to the truth. As a matter of fact, I've been involved in a situation where a govt arm of LE told a lie to my daughter and me to try to get her to back down from her rape accusation at the Air Force Academy. The AFOSI even admitted to us afterwards that it was a tactic they used to make sure she was being honest. This has made me a good watchdog and not just swallow everything that anyone in LE says is true . . . Not a criticism of you or LE ~ Just a warning/precaution so you won't always take everything they say as gospel. . . It helps me keep everything in perspective.

[christee]

Originally Posted by PotatoHead

Respectfully, I don't think Judge Strickland had a lot of leeway with these docs under the Sunshine Law.

Regardless, I feel that while I will not read these personally, it will inevitably benefit the prosecution that these docs were released. Thus, I don't personally believe that the SA's office wanted Judge Strickland to rule on these documents, else they would have filed a motion against the release citing impact on the prosecution's case.

Not worth filing a motion over when the prosecution knows that there is no singular detail in any of these reports that lends a shred of credence towards the Soddi defense, so why bother? Certainly, I would guess that several members of the SA team are as repelled by this release as some of us are, but they also know that this helps their case. I am also of the opinion that they discussed this release and warned JG in advance. Probably many months ago when JB requested these reports/reviews. Likely around the time when JG finally hired an attorney.

The defence request for these reports clearly shows not only the willingness by the to muddy up the waters will irrelevant and 'frivilous' (I believe that was JB's latest quote,) but also points to desperation in their attempts to bolster the SODDI agenda.

I am very willing to entertain any factual argument you might have that illustrates how these reports are relevant, if you have the time and are so inclined? I'm not so concerned with Judge Strickland's failure to secret these files when no request was made by the prosecutors to do so.

I am interested in any and all points within the review reports that you can isolate for our consideration that might be significant in casting new light on what happened to Caylee?

Judge Strickland couldn't have withheld these docs lacking a motion asking to do so. No motion is telling in itself, IMO.

I guess what I am saying is that if you think these reports are relevant, please point out specifics within the JG review reports for discussion.

Judge S. isn't and can't post here, but you can & are. Lakcing his assessment of what is useful whether a motion is filed or not, perhaps you can guide me?

How are these reports relevant in any way to Caylee's demise? (In your own determination, not a presumption of Judge Strickland's thoughts.)

Thanks in advance for helping clarify the significance of the reports, because I don't get it.

Thank-you, Madam PotatoHead for saying, so eloquently, what I wished I could have said(written).

[Leila]

Originally Posted by Dear Prudence

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224751/detail.html

This one letter from the FBI that's in today's doc dump says soooooo much to me about this case. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.

And, this is how the story has unfolded since the beginning, with Casey's friends cooperating with LE in any way they could to help find Caylee. In the meantime, the Anthonys - Cindy, George, and Lee - have done everything possible to not cooperate with LE, and have tried to steer the investigation away from Casey or themselves.