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  #226  
Old 09-15-2009, 07:47 AM
bleedingheart bleedingheart is offline
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Man! These car sitings are confusing:



http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News...7/9592696.html

So, I wonder, was there a witness car (the blue station wagon) and Rafferty's Honda passing by 5 minutes after Tori and the POI left Fyfe and crossed the road (if they did).
If MR picked them up on Fyfe Ave, you would think it would be shown on the video that these pics are taken from.
I am getting confused about these cars. All I know is that the blue station wagon is the neighbors and they are innocent of any wrong doing, and any other cars/drivers shown where cleared as potential witnessess, they did not see anything or could not remember after the lapse of time the LE showed these videos, between the actual walk down Fyfe and the release of the video of the perp and TS.
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  #227  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jhulford View Post
Man! These car sitings are confusing:



http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News...7/9592696.html

So, I wonder, was there a witness car (the blue station wagon) and Rafferty's Honda passing by 5 minutes after Tori and the POI left Fyfe and crossed the road (if they did).
I think this is another example of media error and only the station wagon was seen 5 minutes after the abduction.

MOO
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jhulford View Post
Man! These car sitings are confusing:



http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News...7/9592696.html

So, I wonder, was there a witness car (the blue station wagon) and Rafferty's Honda passing by 5 minutes after Tori and the POI left Fyfe and crossed the road (if they did).
Could this possibly be the clue to their arrest of M.R.???? Do they have a piece of that video showing MR and TLM putting TS into the car on Fyfe St.????????????
I am sure they have only shown pieces of that video to keep us happy, they would withhold anything of value for themselves to investigate, as it should be.

Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-15-2009 at 10:35 AM. Reason: sp error
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:42 AM
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I think this is another example of media error and only the station wagon was seen 5 minutes after the abduction.

MOO
I agree with you AG. I am still trying to locate the PC of Const. Maitland talking about those cars and their drivers as possible witnesses. Hope I find it soon.
At that time there was no mention of the Honda going down Fyfe St.
Could be LE kept it confidential at that time,
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  #230  
Old 09-15-2009, 12:11 PM
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Could this possibly be the clue to their arrest of M.R.???? Do they have a piece of that video showing MR and TLM putting TS into the car on Fyfe St.????????????
I am sure they have only shown pieces of that video to keep us happy, they would withhold anything of value for themselves to investigate, as it should be.
(BBM)

From the article you posted, BH:

"Renton refused to explain why there was a gap of about a week from when police knew about the male suspect to when he was arrested"


http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/cana...20976-sun.html

If Det. Insp. Renton is considered a credible source, then I have to deduce that LE did not have any knowledge of MTR until a week before his arrest. This would also possibly negate any speculation that LE seriously considered TLM as a suspect in the abduction until about this time, since her phone calls and visit(s) with MTR would have immediately put him under suspicion.

MOO
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  #231  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:45 PM
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Then the May 4 presser with Maitland stating that all the cars that traveled up Fyfe that afternoon had been cleared except the dark coloured station wagon that travelled past five minutes later is a moot lead. If the later 'witness' vehicle is BH's neighbour and has been cleared, then Mr. Richmond in his article May 27 had the later station wagon confused with the gas station video. Do you remember the date your neighbour was found BH?

The wheelbase is irrelevant, because after a little research I found that some of those little station wagons have a smaller wheelbase than the Civic 4 door, lol.
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  #232  
Old 09-15-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jhulford View Post
Then the May 4 presser with Maitland stating that all the cars that traveled up Fyfe that afternoon had been cleared except the dark coloured station wagon that travelled past five minutes later is a moot lead. If the later 'witness' vehicle is BH's neighbour and has been cleared, then Mr. Richmond in his article May 27 had the later station wagon confused with the gas station video. Do you remember the date your neighbour was found BH?

The wheelbase is irrelevant, because after a little research I found that some of those little station wagons have a smaller wheelbase than the Civic 4 door, lol.
I don't remember anymore, Was prob sometime in July, jh..If I see the neighbor outside I will go and ask them about it.They work shift work so do not see them sometimes for weeks at a time.
Thank you for looking up that link, saves me a bit of time to look for other things

Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-15-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: adding info
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  #233  
Old 09-16-2009, 12:11 AM
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Then the May 4 presser with Maitland stating that all the cars that traveled up Fyfe that afternoon had been cleared except the dark coloured station wagon that travelled past five minutes later is a moot lead. If the later 'witness' vehicle is BH's neighbour and has been cleared, then Mr. Richmond in his article May 27 had the later station wagon confused with the gas station video. Do you remember the date your neighbour was found BH?

The wheelbase is irrelevant, because after a little research I found that some of those little station wagons have a smaller wheelbase than the Civic 4 door, lol.
I am kind of howling right now. I can't imagine in a city the size of Woodstock that MR's car wasn't noticed everywhere he went in it... it must have stuck out like a sore thumb. Surely if it had been on Fyfe or in the area that day somebody would have remembered it and if it had been caught on tape it wouldn't be hard to track it down. "Um, yah, there was this car and it was like painted really weird and there was some big dude in it driving". I am sure that if I ever saw it anywhere I would remember - and I'll bet the ranch that most of the officers in town were familiar with the sight of it rocketing from place to place.

Mr Cha has a rather distinctive pickup truck - the color is highly unusual and it is decked out rather nicely. People remember it, and know where it lives and because of that know Mr Cha to see him. It's not the type of vehicle you would use to rob a variety store or a bank (we try to keep that to a minimum) because it is so conspicuous.

I doubt that LE had any tape of or early tips on MR's car's presence at the school or they would have tracked him down when they were questioning the drivers of other vehicles (i.e. the station wagon). I can't think of a more unlikely vehicle for abduction than MR's civic (other than Mr Cha's pickup). Might as well put a sign on the back saying "LOOK AT ME!"

Last edited by ChaChaCha; 09-16-2009 at 12:13 AM. Reason: tipo
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  #234  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:20 AM
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I am kind of howling right now. I can't imagine in a city the size of Woodstock that MR's car wasn't noticed everywhere he went in it... it must have stuck out like a sore thumb. Surely if it had been on Fyfe or in the area that day somebody would have remembered it and if it had been caught on tape it wouldn't be hard to track it down. "Um, yah, there was this car and it was like painted really weird and there was some big dude in it driving". I am sure that if I ever saw it anywhere I would remember - and I'll bet the ranch that most of the officers in town were familiar with the sight of it rocketing from place to place.

Mr Cha has a rather distinctive pickup truck - the color is highly unusual and it is decked out rather nicely. People remember it, and know where it lives and because of that know Mr Cha to see him. It's not the type of vehicle you would use to rob a variety store or a bank (we try to keep that to a minimum) because it is so conspicuous.

I doubt that LE had any tape of or early tips on MR's car's presence at the school or they would have tracked him down when they were questioning the drivers of other vehicles (i.e. the station wagon). I can't think of a more unlikely vehicle for abduction than MR's civic (other than Mr Cha's pickup). Might as well put a sign on the back saying "LOOK AT ME!"
I have to agree with ChaChaCha here. I seriously doubt that MR's car was picked up on any video surveillance from the CASS video. I tend to agree with the posters who speculate that TLM walked Tori up to the end of that street beside the nursing home and through to the other street. Sorry, can't remember the names of the streets right now.
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  #235  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:43 AM
bleedingheart bleedingheart is offline
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Originally Posted by ChaChaCha View Post
I am kind of howling right now. I can't imagine in a city the size of Woodstock that MR's car wasn't noticed everywhere he went in it... it must have stuck out like a sore thumb. Surely if it had been on Fyfe or in the area that day somebody would have remembered it and if it had been caught on tape it wouldn't be hard to track it down. "Um, yah, there was this car and it was like painted really weird and there was some big dude in it driving". I am sure that if I ever saw it anywhere I would remember - and I'll bet the ranch that most of the officers in town were familiar with the sight of it rocketing from place to place.

Mr Cha has a rather distinctive pickup truck - the color is highly unusual and it is decked out rather nicely. People remember it, and know where it lives and because of that know Mr Cha to see him. It's not the type of vehicle you would use to rob a variety store or a bank (we try to keep that to a minimum) because it is so conspicuous.

I doubt that LE had any tape of or early tips on MR's car's presence at the school or they would have tracked him down when they were questioning the drivers of other vehicles (i.e. the station wagon). I can't think of a more unlikely vehicle for abduction than MR's civic (other than Mr Cha's pickup). Might as well put a sign on the back saying "LOOK AT ME!"
Cha, Woodstock is a city, it is 10 miles sq. and has over 36,000 population. It may not sound large in comparison to other cities, but its not a Burg where you know everyone. This crime happened on the other side of town to where I reside, and I have no reason to go anywhere near where the people in question live.
Same as MR. He would have no reason to come to my section of town as there is nothing for him to be doing there.(Meaning it is all residential.)
Most of the action for young folks in this town is Dundas St and Norwich Ave. If you happen to go down town(Dundas St.) especially in the evening, these are the streets where you will most likely see the younger ones "cruising" up and down the streets. A&W (Norwich Ave.) is another spot car lovers frequent, young and old alike showing off their cars, vintage or otherwise.
I do not venture out on foot in the evenings anymore in this city as it is not safe to do so with all the drug problems, thefts, violence.
I doubt that MR and TLM were thinking too clearly about too much when this happened. They had a mission to complete and so be it. I would think that neither thought of the consequences of this crime until they were caught and now are sitting in jail thinking about it. More likely they are thinking "Poor US" what did we do???
I know these two are to be considered innocent until proven guilty of the crime against little Tori,so I pray that the truth will come out and whoever did indeed do this to her will be given the the harshest punishment ever served in a Canadian Court.jmoo~BH
~~~Rest in peace lil one, justice will be served~~~

Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-17-2009 at 11:59 AM. Reason: added
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  #236  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:30 PM
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Cha, Woodstock is a city, it is 10 miles sq. and has over 36,000 population. It may not sound large in comparison to other cities, but its not a Burg where you know everyone. This crime happened on the other side of town to where I reside, and I have no reason to go anywhere near where the people in question live.
Same as MR. He would have no reason to come to my section of town as there is nothing for him to be doing there.(Meaning it is all residential.)
Most of the action for young folks in this town is Dundas St and Norwich Ave. If you happen to go down town(Dundas St.) especially in the evening, these are the streets where you will most likely see the younger ones "cruising" up and down the streets. A&W (Norwich Ave.) is another spot car lovers frequent, young and old alike showing off their cars, vintage or otherwise.
I do not venture out on foot in the evenings anymore in this city as it is not safe to do so with all the drug problems, thefts, violence.
I doubt that MR and TLM were thinking too clearly about too much when this happened. They had a mission to complete and so be it. I would think that neither thought of the consequences of this crime until they were caught and now are sitting in jail thinking about it. More likely they are thinking "Poor US" what did we do???
I know these two are to be considered innocent until proven guilty of the crime against little Tori,so I pray that the truth will come out and whoever did indeed do this to her will be given the the harshest punishment ever served in a Canadian Court.jmoo~BH
~~~Rest in peace lil one, justice will be served~~~
Undoubtedly a horrible and stupid thing for them to do. I can't imagine that there is any reason why they should be shown any leniency whatsoever - but should instead be prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law. LE and the prosecutors should be following up still on the information they have to ensure that no stone is left unturned. I do not believe that there is any excuse ever for anyone to willfully take an innocent person's life. If there is sufficient evidence to lay charges and proceed to trial then I say that the case should be tried on that evidence and the serious nature of the crime, and that there should not be any subrogation of the charges or the punishment on account of an accused's poor upbringing. After all, these are not three year olds - they are young adults that have had sufficient time in the world to know what is right and what is wrong on the most basic of levels.

I am going to have to take a cruise thru Woodstock again the next time we are up that way. I didn't realize that most of the players lived on the same side of town... for some reason I thought that MR lived in the burbs? I'll have to get my map out though (no GPS!) so I don't get lost - my navigation skills are limited and I usually only go where I need to be (my friend's, the fair, the hospital or the specialist's office!) and then a bit of lunch, shopping and home again...

Although you will all remember that I was quite willing to go to GTC with y'all, so long as I get to sit with my back against the wall!
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  #237  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:18 PM
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Undoubtedly a horrible and stupid thing for them to do. I can't imagine that there is any reason why they should be shown any leniency whatsoever - but should instead be prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law. LE and the prosecutors should be following up still on the information they have to ensure that no stone is left unturned. I do not believe that there is any excuse ever for anyone to willfully take an innocent person's life. If there is sufficient evidence to lay charges and proceed to trial then I say that the case should be tried on that evidence and the serious nature of the crime, and that there should not be any subrogation of the charges or the punishment on account of an accused's poor upbringing. After all, these are not three year olds - they are young adults that have had sufficient time in the world to know what is right and what is wrong on the most basic of levels.

I am going to have to take a cruise thru Woodstock again the next time we are up that way. I didn't realize that most of the players lived on the same side of town... for some reason I thought that MR lived in the burbs? I'll have to get my map out though (no GPS!) so I don't get lost - my navigation skills are limited and I usually only go where I need to be (my friend's, the fair, the hospital or the specialist's office!) and then a bit of lunch, shopping and home again...

Although you will all remember that I was quite willing to go to GTC with y'all, so long as I get to sit with my back against the wall!
I agree with you whole heartedly, Cha. Nothing must go wrong in this trial,and no deals that will make a mockery of this little girl's life that the perpetrators took away from her.
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  #238  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:45 PM
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http://cancrime.com/2009/05/is-victo...ar-saturn.html

If you scroll down from the video, it will show a similar car that the LE think is the type of car they were looking for.

Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-18-2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason: adding words
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  #239  
Old 09-21-2009, 10:47 PM
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MTR has a court appearance this week, Sept 25th if I remember correctly. Any idea what will happen at this one?
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  #240  
Old 09-22-2009, 03:09 PM
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MTR has a court appearance this week, Sept 25th if I remember correctly. Any idea what will happen at this one?
I hope they update the charges and let us know what we have all been fearing happened to poor little Tori.
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:08 PM
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Some of us had been wondering if LE would wait until Rodney came home to upgrade the charges, well he's home!!!! For some reason I can't get the right link but this will get you the Sentinel Review! Sorry
http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=s...&setLang=en-CA

Last edited by maxfactor; 09-22-2009 at 04:12 PM. Reason: link not working
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:52 PM
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Upgrade the charges? They're already charged with first degree murder.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:20 PM
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Oops! I didn't necessarily mean upgrade. Upgrade, downgrade, change. I wondered if they were going to release info from the autopsy if they would wait until Rodney was finished his ride.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:13 PM
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Ah! I wonder if any info at all will be released before the trial. Tara is trying to have a 'publishing ban' put in place, so that no info can be reported even during the trial. I don't know if she'll get away with it or not, but it has been used before.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:32 PM
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Ah! I wonder if any info at all will be released before the trial. Tara is trying to have a 'publishing ban' put in place, so that no info can be reported even during the trial. I don't know if she'll get away with it or not, but it has been used before.
TM asking for a publication ban is a fairly selfish request to have at this point - I strongly feel that parents should be made fully aware of exactly how this whole tradegy went down so that we can be vigilant and guard against this happening to our own children!

I don't recall a full publication ban (perhaps there was a partial ban) for the PB/KH trials and if those families were unable to do (remember one of the mother's actually locked her daughter out of the house the night she was taken) I highly doubt TM will be able to get a ban in place - and in case she is not aware of it, most publication bans are put in place in order to ensure that the accused has their right to a fair trial realized - not to keep the public from knowing the truth about TM's stories and lies - which I believe is what she really does not want the public to know!

JMSO's here - Just My Sarcastic Opinion!
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:04 PM
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Ah! I wonder if any info at all will be released before the trial. Tara is trying to have a 'publishing ban' put in place, so that no info can be reported even during the trial. I don't know if she'll get away with it or not, but it has been used before.
I think there will be a publication ban and so does my reporter friend - at least for the first trial, but I doubt that TM will have any say about it. Since TLM and MTR will be tried separately, any info reported in the first trial is bound to have an effect on the second. So, maybe they will lift the ban for the second trial. If TLM pleads guilty and there is no trial for her, it may be different.

Remember that a publication ban is only in effect during the trial. Once a verdict is reached and sentencing is done, the media is free to publish what they learned during the trial. I'm also of the opinion that there will be at least one book written about this case.

MOO
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:11 PM
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I think there will be a publication ban and so does my reporter friend - at least for the first trial, but I doubt that TM will have any say about it. Since TLM and MTR will be tried separately, any info reported in the first trial is bound to have an effect on the second. So, maybe they will lift the ban for the second trial. If TLM pleads guilty and there is no trial for her, it may be different.

Remember that a publication ban is only in effect during the trial. Once a verdict is reached and sentencing is done, the media is free to publish what they learned during the trial. I'm also of the opinion that there will be at least one book written about this case.

MOO
AG - that is what I meant (BBM) - the ban will be in place to protect the trial (not the victims) and many people are of the believe that the information will never come out but it does eventually - just like how some young offenders believe that their youth charges are wiped from their records once they turn 18.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:24 PM
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During the PB/KH trial, there were certain aspects that weren't allowed to be published, but the U.S. papers always published those details, including Jane Doe's real name.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:40 PM
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During the PB/KH trial, there were certain aspects that weren't allowed to be published, but the U.S. papers always published those details, including Jane Doe's real name.
Yes, what will be allowed to be published in the media will be at the judge's discretion. This will not apply to foreign publications, but somehow I doubt this case will get that much attention outside Canada. The other tricky part is the internet where individual bloggers might leak information. I'm not sure about the current laws regarding this, but here is an interesting article about publication bans. Unfortunately, it's six years old and probably out of date now.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/publicationbans/
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:40 PM
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Yes, what will be allowed to be published in the media will be at the judge's discretion. This will not apply to foreign publications, but somehow I doubt this case will get that much attention outside Canada. The other tricky part is the internet where individual bloggers might leak information. I'm not sure about the current laws regarding this, but here is an interesting article about publication bans. Unfortunately, it's six years old and probably out of date now.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/publicationbans/
I believe one of our members is in the middle of her sons case, or maybe just ended. She stated that she wouldn't be able to comment on the case due to the publication ban.
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General Discussions #4 golfmom Janet Christiansen Abaroa, Durham, NC 443 06-07-2005 11:13 AM


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