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Jaycee Lee Dugard Kidnapped in 1991-found alive 18 years later!


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  #26  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:58 AM
kbl8201 kbl8201 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
Phil only did 11 years for his first kidnapping and rape. Nancy may, very well, do about the same amount of time, give or take a couple years. Unfortunately, the justice system constantly fails us when it comes to crimes against women and especially children. Although, this particular case is under a huge spotlight, HOPEFULLY she will be treated more harshly than Phil was in the 70's since we're all watching.
your 100 percent right tizzle. i think the state has enough to nail both of them without cutting a deal with either though. i hope
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:16 PM
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Thing is... Nancy was employed as a CNA. When it comes to that type of patient care, productivity is not an issue. It's not like you have to see a certain number of patients.
i was commenting on how nothing got done at home, so it
became a junkpile. NG was fired from Diamond Ridge Healthcare. But you're
certainly right in that productivity is often not measured on the job, and
no doubt contributes to the rise in healthcosts , and other ways.
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  #28  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:39 PM
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Inside Edition Interview with Nancy Garrido's Brothers

Article on Inside Edition website about interview with Nancy Garrido's brothers, David and Rey Bocanegra:

http://www.insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=3433


Quote:
David told McInerney about his last phone conversation with his sister three years ago.

"When I was talking to her and she was answering back to me, it was Phillip telling her what to say."
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  #29  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:49 PM
Natal Natal is offline
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Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
Phil only did 11 years for his first kidnapping and rape. Nancy may, very well, do about the same amount of time, give or take a couple years. Unfortunately, the justice system constantly fails us when it comes to crimes against women and especially children. Although, this particular case is under a huge spotlight, HOPEFULLY she will be treated more harshly than Phil was in the 70's since we're all watching.
That depends on whether they want to avoid a trial or not. They could offer her a deal, something like a conviction on the kidnapping and imprisonment charges, and a dismisal of the rape charges in return for a guilty plea. Then a reduced sentence for co-operating. That way they could avoid having a trial in which Jaycee and/or the girls would have to testify. She won't plead guilty unless they give her something in return.

They don't need to have a trial for PG because he can be sent away forever on the parole violation alone. Also, PG can be convicted on two statutory rape charges without Jaycee testifying at all, since the DNA of the children will provide irrefutable proof of the states case.
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  #30  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:24 PM
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I believe that the accused in this country have a right to a trial.
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  #31  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkercab View Post
i was commenting on how nothing got done at home, so it
became a junkpile. NG was fired from Diamond Ridge Healthcare. But you're
certainly right in that productivity is often not measured on the job, and
no doubt contributes to the rise in healthcosts , and other ways.
I've worked extensively in nursing homes- not as a CNA, mind you- and they do have a set number of patients under their care, but they have a shift- 8 hours in which to get them all seen and they are basically there to tend to whatever basic care needs the patient needs.
I think the Garrido's home was a result of mental illness/OCD, not necessarily not enough time for housecleaning.
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Last edited by LinasK; 09-28-2009 at 08:29 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flourish View Post
bbm
Thank you for answering my question.

Even referring to NG and PG as "parents" is just revolting, IMHO.
If PG is the bio father of Jaycee's girls, being a bio dad doesn't make you a "caring parent." Go check out Jaycee's bio dad's thread for more info on ideas about that. And NG is a parent to anyone how? By enabling her husband-rapist?
NG said she was mother. What makes a mystery tale hard to put down
is we don't know the climax yet --- what do "Alissa" and her 2 think of
this bizarre arrangement for growing up?
The two points that struck me about PG's attitude as a caring father were:
1) his predatory violence stopped
2) he's been addressing the issue of what will Starlet and Angel do when
they grow up? I think he's losing his marbles though: the girls look evasive in
public as bystanders steer around a "God's Desire" soapbox preacher. And he
can't keep the Garrido's secrecy act together anymore, blowing its cover.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by checkercab View Post
NG said she was mother. What makes a mystery tale hard to put down
is we don't know the climax yet --- what do "Alissa" and her 2 think of
this bizarre arrangement for growing up?
The two points that struck me about PG's attitude as a caring father were:
1) his predatory violence stopped
2) he's been addressing the issue of what will Starlet and Angel do when
they grow up? I think he's losing his marbles though: the girls look evasive in
public as bystanders steer around a "God's Desire" soapbox preacher. And he
can't keep the Garrido's secrecy act together anymore, blowing its cover.
NG may have said she was the mother, but I was referring to your reference to the G's as "caring parents"
1) Do we really know for sure that his predatory violence stopped?
2) I'm not sure what you're referring to about his "addressing the issue of" what the girls will do when they grow up. Not saying it's not true, just saying I'm not sure where that info came from. Losing one's marbles is not evidence of one's "attitude as a caring father" ...
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:17 PM
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I believe that the accused in this country have a right to a trial.
Only if charges are pressed. They dont need a trial for the parole violation, and the stat rape charges would be easy to prove. that would be enough to send him away forever. They could drop all the rest of the charges.
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2009, 09:19 PM
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Where and to whom has PG addressed the issue of what the two younger girls will do when they grow up? I haven't heard this, but have realized that he could never let them leave home.
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2009, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by flourish View Post
NG may have said she was the mother, but I was referring to your reference to the G's as "caring parents"
1) Do we really know for sure that his predatory violence stopped?
2) I'm not sure what you're referring to about his "addressing the issue of" what the girls will do when they grow up. Not saying it's not true, just saying I'm not sure where that info came from. Losing one's marbles is not evidence of one's "attitude as a caring father" ...
Well, he does seem to have been making some efforts in recent years to bring them out into the world, allbeit it in a highly dysfunctional way. I have no idea how he thought he might be able to get away with that though, but he was crazy so who knows. I do think that it is a leap to say that he was a monster as far as the kids were concerned, we just don't know enough to say one way or the other at this point. Certainly THEY dont seem to think so, so there must gave been some level of affection.

Last edited by Natal; 09-28-2009 at 09:31 PM. Reason: typos
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Natal View Post
Well, he does seem to have been making some efforts in recent years to bring them out into the world, allbeit it in a highly dysfunctional way. I have no idea how he thought he might be able to get away with that though, but he was crazy so who knows. I do think that it is a leap to say that he was a monster as far as the kids were concerned, we just don't know enough to say one way or the other at this point. Certainly THEY dont seem to think so, so there must gave been some level of affection.
I can appreciate the thought that perhaps PG "softened" a bit after the girls were born. Sometimes the sight of one's own offspring can bring out a part of a person which wasn't as visible or evident before. The way you stated it as "some level of affection" is much more palatable and realistic than the idea that he truly could have been a "caring parent."

My definition of "caring parent" apparently differs greatly from others'. To me, a "caring parent" is a term which will never ever be synonymous with someone whose parenthood occurred because they raped a little girl. You may not feel comfortable taking the leap to say "that he was a monster as far as the kids were concerned," but I am comfortable taking that leap. Regardless of whether or not he abused them in an outward way, they were abused, neglected, and/or mistreated by him from the moment of their violent, illegal, and non-consensual conceptions. Taking them on a few outings years later doesn't really balance that out for me.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:21 PM
kbl8201 kbl8201 is offline
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I can appreciate the thought that perhaps PG "softened" a bit after the girls were born. Sometimes the sight of one's own offspring can bring out a part of a person which wasn't as visible or evident before. The way you stated it as "some level of affection" is much more palatable and realistic than the idea that he truly could have been a "caring parent."

My definition of "caring parent" apparently differs greatly from others'. To me, a "caring parent" is a term which will never ever be synonymous with someone whose parenthood occurred because they raped a little girl. You may not feel comfortable taking the leap to say "that he was a monster as far as the kids were concerned," but I am comfortable taking that leap. Regardless of whether or not he abused them in an outward way, they were abused, neglected, and/or mistreated by him from the moment of their violent, illegal, and non-consensual conceptions. Taking them on a few outings years later doesn't really balance that out for me.
the guy let his kids live in filth in a backyad (or more filth in the house) and that's just beyond what he did to there mom. i mean that right there is abuse and neglect itself
guy is a monster and there's no going around that
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:55 PM
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BTK was a monster and had kids who liked him, so that's nothing new. PG thought he owned the girls and was paranoid or he'd never have said that he slept with them since they were born. He knew he could never allow them real freedom or to ever have their own lives. They've never been seen anywhere normal (including that alleged birthday party thrown by his buddy) or without him that I've heard of. They were forced to participate in his religious psychosis and rantings, hauled around to junk yards, barber shops, and humiliated even though they might not have realized it. He was in no way caring and they didn't have much of a life at all. From the sound of some reports, they didn't even have a good diet or much variety either.
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
BTK was a monster and had kids who liked him, so that's nothing new. PG thought he owned the girls and was paranoid or he'd never have said that he slept with them since they were born. He knew he could never allow them real freedom or to ever have their own lives. They've never been seen anywhere normal (including that alleged birthday party thrown by his buddy) or without him that I've heard of. They were forced to participate in his religious psychosis and rantings, hauled around to junk yards, barber shops, and humiliated even though they might not have realized it. He was in no way caring and they didn't have much of a life at all. From the sound of some reports, they didn't even have a good diet or much variety either.
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the guy let his kids live in filth in a backyad (or more filth in the house) and that's just beyond what he did to there mom. i mean that right there is abuse and neglect itself
guy is a monster and there's no going around that
Exactly, thank you!!!
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  #41  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:05 PM
kbl8201 kbl8201 is offline
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BTK was a monster and had kids who liked him, so that's nothing new. PG thought he owned the girls and was paranoid or he'd never have said that he slept with them since they were born. He knew he could never allow them real freedom or to ever have their own lives. They've never been seen anywhere normal (including that alleged birthday party thrown by his buddy) or without him that I've heard of. They were forced to participate in his religious psychosis and rantings, hauled around to junk yards, barber shops, and humiliated even though they might not have realized it. He was in no way caring and they didn't have much of a life at all. From the sound of some reports, they didn't even have a good diet or much variety either.
btk there was a great guy. guy euthanized a womans cat just cause he didnt like the woman............that should have set off alarm bells dont you think?
there's a special (hot) place reserved for garrido and his wife when they go.......
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:30 PM
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I can appreciate the thought that perhaps PG "softened" a bit after the girls were born. Sometimes the sight of one's own offspring can bring out a part of a person which wasn't as visible or evident before. The way you stated it as "some level of affection" is much more palatable and realistic than the idea that he truly could have been a "caring parent."

My definition of "caring parent" apparently differs greatly from others'. To me, a "caring parent" is a term which will never ever be synonymous with someone whose parenthood occurred because they raped a little girl. You may not feel comfortable taking the leap to say "that he was a monster as far as the kids were concerned," but I am comfortable taking that leap. Regardless of whether or not he abused them in an outward way, they were abused, neglected, and/or mistreated by him from the moment of their violent, illegal, and non-consensual conceptions. Taking them on a few outings years later doesn't really balance that out for me.
Well, you were neither him nor them. As far as their relationship was concerned the important thing was his attitude towards them, and their attitude towards him. You are placing yourself in their position and looking at the situation as you would have seen it based on your upbringing, which is the wrong thing to do. If you want to understand the situation properly, you have to try to look at it in the way they would have looked at it, which is likely very different.

Last edited by Natal; 09-28-2009 at 11:31 PM.
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:36 PM
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Well, you were neither him nor them. As far as their relationship was concerned the important thing was his attitude towards them, and their attitude towards him. You are placing yourself in their position and looking at the situation as you would have seen it based on your upbringing, which is the wrong thing to do. If you want to understand the situation properly, you have to try to look at it in the way they would have looked at it, which is likely very different.
they look at it diffrently cause they dont know any better. not like they knew what was going on was diffrent then what happened in the outside world.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:40 PM
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Article on Inside Edition website about interview with Nancy Garrido's brothers, David and Rey Bocanegra:

http://www.insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=3433
The brothers describe her almost like St. Theresa don't they? Still even the neighbors and others have described her as quiet and reclusive. No history of drub abuse when younger, but her more recent employment history does show a problem.

I didn't see anything really different or unknown in the article, but the bros. do say that Nancy's defense attorney has told them she has started cooperating with LE now. Of course that is from a defense attorney and with no idea of the level of cooperation. Still I do hope she is talking.
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:40 PM
Natal Natal is offline
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^^Doesn't matter, it was their relationship, not yours, the level of caring and affection would be defined by them, not you.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:42 PM
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I didn't see anything really different or unknown in the article, but the bros. do say that Nancy's defense attorney has told them she has started cooperating with LE now. Of course that is from a defense attorney and with no idea of the level of cooperation. Still I do hope she is talking.
That suggests that they have worked out a deal.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:55 PM
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Well, you were neither him nor them.
Very well aware of that fact. In fact, I wasn't speaking for the girls. I was referring to an earlier poster who stated that the G's tried to be "caring parents."

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As far as their relationship was concerned the important thing was his attitude towards them, and their attitude towards him.
I disagree that "his attitude towards them, and their attitude towards him" was the important thing. Sure, that's important. So is providing shelter and education and proper nutrition and not raping one's mother, and that kinda supersedes attitude for me.

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You are placing yourself in their position and looking at the situation as you would have seen it based on your upbringing, which is the wrong thing to do. If you want to understand the situation properly, you have to try to look at it in the way they would have looked at it, which is likely very different.
Again, how the girls view it is a whole different topic altogether, and not the topic I was discussing. Sure do appreciate a condescending lesson on perspective, though, so thanks for that.
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  #48  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:59 PM
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Be that as it may, you are still talking from your perspective and not theirs, which is what I was talking about.
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  #49  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:00 AM
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^^Doesn't matter, it was their relationship, not yours, the level of caring and affection would be defined by them, not you.
caring and affection? ok where my puke icon
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:30 AM
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If ALL you've known is a sick, perverted father who feels the strange and disturbing need to SLEEP with you in his arms every night

If ALL you've ever known is not to know the horrible truth of your parentage, and to be essentially LIED to every day about that truth

If ALL you've ever known is to be largely deprived of an education

If ALL you've ever known is to live in an uninhabitable house and backyard tents

etc etc

I suppose you'd think it was normal. I suppose you'd THINK that this perversion was LOVE. But we KNOW that this is not right. What was being done to those girls every day, all day, on a day to day basis, is essentially a crime, and children have been taken away by CPS for far, far less.
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