The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #1

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by Enrique Sparta

new person here...

I just heard of this case last night. It interested me a great deal and so I've been doing major research to try and get as many details as possible.

-did Sherrill know Suzie and Stacy decided to end up driving back to the Levitt home. Did Suzie call her mom and say they were coming? About what time did Suzie and Stacy leave the party? Did anybody leave with either of the girls? Were they drunk?

-the server who claimed to have seen the three women in the steakhouse between 1 and 3 in the morning. First off I live in Los Angeles and I don't know any steakhouse that is open at those hours. Was there a bar inside too? Was this really one of Shrerrill's favorite restaurants and she was a regular? Did this employeee notice Sherrill before or did she just see the faces in the news and think back and thought she saw them. Is this woman without a doubt certain she saw the three women? If Suzanne was being loud and rowdy it's possible another employee could back up this woman's claims. If she's credible and certain she saw them this could be important....especially if she had seen Sherrill before in the restaurant since Sherrill was supposedly a regular. I wonder if they checked credit cards receipts just in case. I'm sure they did.

-Robert Cox. Was he in Springfield, MO at this time or not? There must be some way to find out. There also must be a way to know for sure whether he worked with Stacy McCall's father. It's frustrating not to know these possible crucial details. What was Cox in prison for and how long? From the comments he gave to authorities (that I read about) he sounded like he was just dicking the police around. Somebody needs to get a hold of Mr McCall and find out if Cox worked with him or not. They also need to find out where he was in spring/summer of 1992.

-The house. okay I read the women's purses were lined up on stairs. it was a one-story home, yes? What stairs are they talking about? Were there pictures taken out of frames? Somebody who visited the house frequently should've been able to say if there were pictures in there or not and possibly who the photographs were of. Were the frames hanging up or on the ground. Broken? The television was on too I read. Which television, living room or one of the bedrooms? Did the dog normally stay outside at night or inside?

-Were all the beds unmade, looked as if they had been slept in or just Sherrill's? Were either Stacy's or Suzanne's clothes lying around? I read from Missouri's post her pants were found in the home. Is it possible the two girls were in the home already before the kidnappers got there? If not then why were the beds unmade? It makes sense with the book and the glasses that Sherrill may have been interrupted but I don't see why the beds were not made. If the kidnappers tried to shake the house up a little bit I suspect they would've taken the purses, jewelry, etc to make it look like a robbery. All they took was pictures evidently and placed the purses together on the stairs. The blinds being pulled apart in Suzanne's room would suggest she was in bed, in her room, and heard something. I just don't see the kidnappers purposely pulling the blinds apart. If they were gonna do something like that I think they would've made it look like a home robbery. If the girls got home earlier then you'd have to rethink everything. If the time is right then it's likely they surprised the kidnappers by showing up.

-this alleged green van. first off were both cars parked in the driveway? I believe they were....one of the above posts mentions how the cars were moved from where they were parked. How would anyone know this without being there? How do we know where Suzie and Stacy parked their cars when they got home in the middle of the night? And this whole green van incident. Okay if some woman saw a girl who looks like Suzie driving the green van, how could she also hear an unseen man say "Don't do anything stupid." How could she hear that while driving next to the green van or on the opposite side of the street? Was the van parked when this allegedly occurred? And this guy who says he saw a green van that looked suspicious. What made it look so suspicious? I mean he supposedly wrote down the license plate # so must have been really shady to him. But then why toss the paper with the license plate? What was so shady about the van in the parking lot of a grocery store?

-this caller to america's most wanted hotline after the program featured the three missing women case. how do the police know that he may have had vital information? What made them come to that conclusion?

baffling mystery, I've enjoyed reading the posts on this thread.

I've just now read your post so am late in responding. You ask some important questions.

As to whether the young women called home it could be answered by the police department as Sherill's phone records could have been requisitioned. I'm sure neither had cell phones with them during 1992 and would have had to rely on pay phones or the home they were first at celebrating. I think they left around 1:15 AM in the morning. It would have taken about 20 minutes to get to the Levitt home at that time of night.

The "steak" house in question used to be a "George Lindsay" restaurant named after the Gomer Pyle character. It later became just "George's" and is a short distance from the Levitt home. I believe it was a family restaurant and was on the main drag in Springfield. It was open according to the reports. The waitress did seem to me to be quite credible but the police detectives seemed convinced they were not there. That's where the tape would be helpful as she is on camera if I recall correctly.

Cox was in Springfield during this time to the best of my knowledge. Some have compared him to Ted Bundy in the way he has jerked the police around. He was on death row in Florida before the Florida Supreme Court released him for lack of evidence. That was prior to the abductions in Springfield. He had been working in the area marking utility lines. Did he work with Mr. McCall? I don't know that we have that information. I know that Mr. McCall did work as a finance manager for a local auto dealership north of Springfield because I saw him there when I purchased a vehicle there. I can't verify that Cox worked there and the dealership has since gone out of business. I believe that Mr. McCall has indicated that he has no recollection of working with Cox. It is also possible that this supposed relationship existed at another dealership. I have no information on that but the police would be able to determine that if they bothered to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


14. Robert Cox Florida Conviction 1988 - Released 1989

• "Cox was convicted and sentenced to death, despite evidence that Cox did not know the victim and no one testified that they had been seen together. In 1989, Cox was released by a unanimous decision of the Florida Supreme Court that the evidence was insufficient to support his conviction."
  http://www.fadp.org/fl_exonerated.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The home was a small home. From viewing it from the outside I would estimate it to have perhaps 1,200 to 1,400 square feet. It was a one story dwelling. The "stairs" evidently have something to do with the side entrance which may have had steps to a higher or lower ground outside the home. Or perhaps the bedroom(s) were sunken below the main level of the home.

As to the vehicle's location it was determined through witnesses (as best as I recall) who said they were parked in one direction in the middle of the night but parked in a different direction when the investigation began in earnest.

As to the van, these were questions that are not answerable. I have wondered the same thing. As best as I can recall a woman next door to the driveway that the van entered was close enough to hear the conversation. It was in June and logical that the window would have been opened in the van as it was unlikely it had air conditioning from that era. Why the man threw away the newspaper and why he thought it looked "suspicious" is not known. (at least according to public accounts.)

As to the call from Florida to AMW, the caller evidently knew something about the case that could only be known by someone privy to the case that was not published. This is normal procedure for police to withhold certain information to weed out false confessers. I have no idea why the police were not more specific but they seemed to be sure that it was legitimate. One might extrapolate, as I do, that it was someone who participated in the crime and wanted to get it on the record as a form of penance for his participation or fully intended to confess or it could have been someone like Cox who just wanted to jerk the police around. As you can see from his documents posted (in PDF) on the internet you can see he hints around the edges but doesn't say anything that would convict him in Missouri where the death penalty is in force. He is now in Lovelady, Texas until 2025 for aggravated robbery or something similar. He may be guilty of far worse. But it cannot be stated with any degree of certainty that he was a participant in this particular crime. See if you can figure out Cox's game from these letters. Springfield police have interviewed him but they came up empty. I really don't know what to make of the letters. His reindition of his employment rings true. I am fully familiar with City Utilities and Southwestern Bell (then SBC and now AT&T). And he says he was in the area although I don't offhand see the relevance unless his uniform he might have worn would have been part of the "ruse" described by the detective in "48 hours." (Ordinarily I don't recall that these utility locators wore uniforms. They were largely identifiable when they carried those long handled paint cans around to paint the areas where utility cables were located. Normally they just wore street clothes as best I can recall.)

http://springfield.news-leader.com/s...s/CoxMay97.pdf

http://springfield.news-leader.com/s...s/CoxMay02.pdf

[Enrique Sparta]

I'll have to take a look at those letters you linked...interesting stuff.

-1:15. 20 minutes so they probably got home a little after 1:30. That is about an hour earlier than all the reports I've read, articles, disucssion, etc. This could be important. Perhaps the girls were home and in bed or ready for bed when the abductors came knocking? I sure wish we knew whether or not Suzie called home and said she was gonna end up coming back for the night. I don't think they would have but if they did, it might give us a much better idea of when they got home.

-so there was a witness on the cars? in the middle of the night? this could potentially be huge. what time did this person see the cars? they saw nothing else? what was this person doing outside? Did they see the two girls drive up? or what? when did this person first notice the cars and then notice they had been moved? Were lights on in the home? These questions could've been easily answered as soon as this witness came forward with the comments about the cars being moved around. If this witness didn't see anything unsual other than the cars I think it's possible the girls didn't surprise anybody in the act and the abductors hadn't got there yet. Of course they'd still be surprised if they only expected Sherrill home. Also if this witness saw the cars and nothing else then is it safe to rule out anybody following the girls home?

-must find the waitress or at least her comments...especially if she had seen sherrill in there before.....AND the fact she saw all three girls and Suzie was apparently being rowdy, it's definitely something somebody would remember. I wouldn't trust anything the Springfield, MO Police did on this case. Sounds like shoddy work to me.

-Even if Mr McCall can't recall if Cox worked with him, I think it's possible to find out or at least back then it wouldn't have been hard. Ask all the people working at the businesses. Not just Mr McCall but his co-workers. But then again if he can't recall working with Cox that means he never really talked to him in depth. Which means Cox may not have known about Stacy. What was Cox on death row in Florida for? Is he a sexual predator? I'd have to lean towards the possible McCall-Cox connection not ringing true here if the guy can't remember anything about Cox. It's his daughter gone, he wouldn't be lying and certainly it's worth noting if this creep was living in the area at the time and they were co-workers.

-the ruse theory. If Sherrill was concerned for her safety...enough that she didn't allow entry from the side door (not even her daughter) she would probably be extremely cautious late at night of somebody ringing the bell or knocking. the thing about maybe the abductors taking the dog outta the yard and using that to get in is interesting. That's why I'd like to know if they kept the dog inside at night or outside. That would answer that quesiton right there. The broken light/lamp thing on the porch may have been used to gain entry. Perhaps they broke the thing knowing Sherrill would check the noise?

-the blinds and the unmade bed are on my mind too. here's my thoughts. If these abductors wanted to stage something, I think they would've done a lot more than they did, overboard, if they did anything to make it look like something else....it was very little and very odd. if the blinds were shoved up as if somebody was looking out, it makes me think the girls may have arrived before the kidnappers....also the fact that the "wintess" saw the cars parked a certain way late at night leads to this as well. And why take pictures outta the frames?

-the phone call to AMW hotline or police or whatever, okay that's very interesting if this person had information that was not released to anybody. First off did they call the police or America's Most Wanted hotline? And how does this work, the hotline records the info and then hands it over to police? I think this case is cold enough that all information should be released. The FBI can also trace these calls can't they? Even if they aren't on the line long enough and the # is unlisted, they can locate where the phone call was placed. Why was this not done? Florida huh...is this for sure true? I wonder what the caller said.

Gimmie a a while to look at those letters and I will think about it. Thanks I love your posts Missouri Mule.

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by Enrique Sparta

I'll have to take a look at those letters you linked...interesting stuff.

-1:15. 20 minutes so they probably got home a little after 1:30. That is about an hour earlier than all the reports I've read, articles, disucssion, etc. This could be important. Perhaps the girls were home and in bed or ready for bed when the abductors came knocking? I sure wish we knew whether or not Suzie called home and said she was gonna end up coming back for the night. I don't think they would have but if they did, it might give us a much better idea of when they got home.

-so there was a witness on the cars? in the middle of the night? this could potentially be huge. what time did this person see the cars? they saw nothing else? what was this person doing outside? Did they see the two girls drive up? or what? when did this person first notice the cars and then notice they had been moved? Were lights on in the home? These questions could've been easily answered as soon as this witness came forward with the comments about the cars being moved around. If this witness didn't see anything unsual other than the cars I think it's possible the girls didn't surprise anybody in the act and the abductors hadn't got there yet. Of course they'd still be surprised if they only expected Sherrill home. Also if this witness saw the cars and nothing else then is it safe to rule out anybody following the girls home?

-must find the waitress or at least her comments...especially if she had seen sherrill in there before.....AND the fact she saw all three girls and Suzie was apparently being rowdy, it's definitely something somebody would remember. I wouldn't trust anything the Springfield, MO Police did on this case. Sounds like shoddy work to me.

-Even if Mr McCall can't recall if Cox worked with him, I think it's possible to find out or at least back then it wouldn't have been hard. Ask all the people working at the businesses. Not just Mr McCall but his co-workers. But then again if he can't recall working with Cox that means he never really talked to him in depth. Which means Cox may not have known about Stacy. What was Cox on death row in Florida for? Is he a sexual predator? I'd have to lean towards the possible McCall-Cox connection not ringing true here if the guy can't remember anything about Cox. It's his daughter gone, he wouldn't be lying and certainly it's worth noting if this creep was living in the area at the time and they were co-workers.

-the ruse theory. If Sherrill was concerned for her safety...enough that she didn't allow entry from the side door (not even her daughter) she would probably be extremely cautious late at night of somebody ringing the bell or knocking. the thing about maybe the abductors taking the dog outta the yard and using that to get in is interesting. That's why I'd like to know if they kept the dog inside at night or outside. That would answer that quesiton right there. The broken light/lamp thing on the porch may have been used to gain entry. Perhaps they broke the thing knowing Sherrill would check the noise?

-the blinds and the unmade bed are on my mind too. here's my thoughts. If these abductors wanted to stage something, I think they would've done a lot more than they did, overboard, if they did anything to make it look like something else....it was very little and very odd. if the blinds were shoved up as if somebody was looking out, it makes me think the girls may have arrived before the kidnappers....also the fact that the "witness" saw the cars parked a certain way late at night leads to this as well. And why take pictures outta the frames?

-the phone call to AMW hotline or police or whatever, okay that's very interesting if this person had information that was not released to anybody. First off did they call the police or America's Most Wanted hotline? And how does this work, the hotline records the info and then hands it over to police? I think this case is cold enough that all information should be released. The FBI can also trace these calls can't they? Even if they aren't on the line long enough and the # is unlisted, they can locate where the phone call was placed. Why was this not done? Florida huh...is this for sure true? I wonder what the caller said.

Gimmie a a while to look at those letters and I will think about it. Thanks I love your posts Missouri Mule.

Please excuse me if I got the timeline slightly wrong. I'm working off the memory of 14 years old. As I said, all those newspaper articles were sent on and I hope to recover them from the columnist who e-mailed me that she would attempt to locate them.

The phone calls should have been verifiable from the police requisitioning the phone records. Any incoming calls should have been identifiable. It would seem that this would be one of the very first things to be checked. If they were checked and no other calls were in evidence, that would argue against the abductors making any advance phone calls and it also argues that the initial person gaining entry did not place any phone calls, so the others entered the home at a pre-scheduled time. And cell phones were virtually unknown at that time. They would have had to come via land line.

My mind's eye seems to recall that at one time a van was pictured in the newspaper that was NOT of the vintage van that was displayed on the police lawn. I believe it was from the 1970s and not the 1960s that the van believed to have been. I think the color of the van was what was intended to convey. I think the house was located across the street from a commercial establishment and there were street lights up and down Glenstone and probably on Delmar as well. It would have been fairly easy to see the vehicles in my opinion. There is nothing that I know of that establishes that anyone saw the vehicles enter the driveway. That would certainly establish a more firm timeline. One can go onto the internet and exactly locate the residence and even satellite photos of where it is located. I've not yet done that but intend to.

As I recall, there were some witnesses who said that they saw the vehicles as they drove by the residence and reported it as the crime was publicized. If true, this would have been prior to the women being taken from the residence since the vehicles were later known to be pointing in the opposite direction.

I should think that it would have been fairly easy to establish whether Cox worked with Mr. McCall. Payroll records that were on file with the IRS and/or Social Security should have been able to have made that connection. Certainly both would be regular employees and not independent contractors. Again, the police have shed no light on that angle. Certainly, if they were employed in the same dealership, the finance manager would know all the salesmen but not necessarily the shop employees who often come and go without great fanfare. What was Cox's actual position? No one seems to know. I'm inclined to disbelieve that connection.

On the broken globe? That's an interesting thought. Make the noise and gain entry when Sherill opens the door to check. I'm disinclined to think the dog would have been put out in the middle of the night. As I recall it was a very small dog; perhaps a Yorkie. I don't know what they did in those days, but typically if one crates their dogs they will not mess in their bed. That's also one of the best ways to housebreak a dog. I believe the dog was found in the home but it was barking in the night. This suggests that it ran out the door as the activity was taking place outside. When the women were in the van, then the dog was put back into the home to keep the noise down would be my thinking.

A thought occurred to me and that was the matter of the blinds. If one individual gained entry with the expectation that his cohorts would come along shortly, it would follow that he might be looking out of the blinds to see when they would arrive. I don't see any particular reason why Sherrill or the young women would have had reason to appear out of the blinds unless they were expecting someone else. On the other hand, it may mean nothing but it is doubtful that they would be left in this state based on Sherill's concern for safety.

I really need to look at those newspaper articles again to go over the known facts providing I can recover them. At the time the case was new I read the articles both in chronological and reverse chronological order primarily to avoid reading material that was later proven to be discounted. There was an earlier sighting that sounded very credible until another woman came along and established that it was her instead of Sherill so I didn't need to read that again. The "George's" connection seemed to fall off the radar soon after the case began. But certainly your skepticism is entirely justified. I don't know how the police ruled it out exactly.

[Enrique Sparta]

-they probably got the right time considering some friends at the party would easily be able to say at about what time Suzie and Stacy left. so it's probably correct in that they arrived at about 2:15 AM. I also read where Sherrill telephoned a friend at about 11:15 PM and she also received a call from Suzanne at 10:30 PM to discuss her plans for the next day. So obviously the authorities must've checked the phone records. Probably safe to say Sherrill had no idea Suzie and Stacy were on their way back and they both arrived after 2 AM.

-the blinds would probably really have to be pulled apart for them to stay that way. I can't picture the kidnappers staging the home to look like something else had happened. If they did, why put the three purses together in an odd space. That's just weird. They may have been pulled by the kidnappers but also by one of the women. Especially if Sherrill heard something (the globe breaking) and freaking out (evidently she was worried for her safety) certainly it's plausible she may have been reading in bed, heard something, and then was abducted. The only problem with this is that then why would the kidnappers wait around for the other two? Nobody except those two girls knew they were coming home. I can't shake the idea that the girls got home before the abductors.

-interesting about the witnesses noticing the cars as they drove by. i wish we knew approximately what time that was.

-i'm also inclined to put too much into the Cox/McCall employee relationship thing.

[pittsburghgirl]

Enrique Sparta, some of your questions can be answered by the Charley Project site, http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mccall_stacy.html.

As you will see, the girls were thought to arrive at Sherrill and Suzie's house around 2:15. The party they were attending was broken up by police around 1:40 a.m. That information is available on the News-Leader archive link in this thread (about 1/2 through). I found all of the articles useful.

The pictures are a bit of a puzzle, but I see 3 possibilities: the killer(s) took them for personal reasons; he/they took them because they contained information that might identify him or them; he/they took them to taunt the investigators as part of the staging. Or--for a combination of these reasons. If Suzanne had hung pictures 2 months after the move, they would not be empty frames. And women do not remove photos and then rehang them. I'd bet the ranch on that.

I am still digesting some new thoughts (so to speak) after having spent all day getting ready to start teaching again tomorrow. Let's try to keep this energy going to see what we might be able to do to turn up some new information.

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by Enrique Sparta

-they probably got the right time considering some friends at the party would easily be able to say at about what time Suzie and Stacy left. so it's probably correct in that they arrived at about 2:15 AM. I also read where Sherrill telephoned a friend at about 11:15 PM and she also received a call from Suzanne at 10:30 PM to discuss her plans for the next day. So obviously the authorities must've checked the phone records. Probably safe to say Sherrill had no idea Suzie and Stacy were on their way back and they both arrived after 2 AM.

-the blinds would probably really have to be pulled apart for them to stay that way. I can't picture the kidnappers staging the home to look like something else had happened. If they did, why put the three purses together in an odd space. That's just weird. They may have been pulled by the kidnappers but also by one of the women. Especially if Sherrill heard something (the globe breaking) and freaking out (evidently she was worried for her safety) certainly it's plausible she may have been reading in bed, heard something, and then was abducted. The only problem with this is that then why would the kidnappers wait around for the other two? Nobody except those two girls knew they were coming home. I can't shake the idea that the girls got home before the abductors.

-interesting about the witnesses noticing the cars as they drove by. i wish we knew approximately what time that was.

-i'm also inclined to put too much into the Cox/McCall employee relationship thing.

I suppose it is possible that the girls got home before the abductors. Hard to say one way or another. Don't know that it is particularly critical, however. As I recall, Delmar is sufficiently wide enough for the van to have been parked in the street by the curb. The young women could have driven in together, walked into the home or were let in or hustled in and they were quickly subdued. I don't get the purse thing either but evidently the abductors were trying to "tidy" up the house before they left. It may have meant little or nothing. I am inclined to believe that Sherill was home by herself when she was disturbed by the knock or ringing doorbell. She would naturally have turned the book over on the bed to retain the page she was reading (probably had reading glasses - presbyopia you know), and went to the door, peaked out and saw someone she recognized and let in the house. He could have been by himself or once she cracked open the door, the others simply forced open the door, grabbed her mouth to keep her quiet and that's when the dog ran out of the house. He/they went about their business and heard the dog barking and let him back in. And then the young women arrived home unexpectantly and likewise were subdued upon entry.

But we still have an unanswered question. If the logical suspects were actually cleared by polygraph, then who would she have let in? The abductors couldn't have known the young women would be coming home unless they had followed them home from the party in Battlefield. But it would be hard to imagine that everyone at that party would not have been interrogated at length. So far as I know, no one has ever come forward stating that they stopped on the way back to the Delmar address. So it would appear they came straight home. One can go to Mapquest and figure the mileage and the approximate location to the home. It is right at 11 miles from the party address to the Delmar address. That should take no more than 20-25 minutes at that time of night. Let's see if this link works. I just picked out an address near where I used to live in Battlefield and you can see the route to be taken.

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/m...nelbtn=2#south

[Enrique Sparta]

thanks pittsburghgirl, all those articles are very helpful. on the video in the multimedia section, you can see a very quick glance at one of the bedrooms, looks like Suzie's. I wish I could freeze it and check out the picture but it won't let you. I'm gonna purchase the 48 Hours segment.

Missouri, I think you're right on when you say "find the motive, solve the crime." by the way do you have Google Earth? You'll be able to see the home from above and the entire area, all you need to do is type in the address. go to google and download it, it's free.

[MaryLiz]

I am thinking that the girls did get home before the abductors were in the house. It said in the newspaper articles that it was apparent they had gotten ready for bed and washed their faces. If someone was already in the house, they probably weren't giving the girls time to do that. Whoever planned this wanted it carried out quickly.

I think the blinds were opened by one of the perps who was sort of looking out to make sure no one saw them and they were accidentally left apart.

Everything that happened, I'm sure, was planned and it had to go smoothly and quickly. The only concern was getting the girls into the van or whatever vehicle was used and getting them out of there. It's just a guess, but I would have to think that someone Sherrill knew came to the door after the girls got home and either broke the globe and that's what brought her to the front door, or they simply knocked and gained entry because they were known to Sherrill.

[Missouri Mule]

In Springfield, most homes of that era were build over crawl spaces. Where I live in Texas most homes and businesses are built on concrete slab foundations. Many homes in Springfield now have basements but they are not a requirement as in St. Louis, for example. I never had a basement in my seven homes in Springfield. All had crawl spaces of anywhere from two to four feet to gain access to the plumbing.

It would have conceivably been possible to have gained access to the interior of the home without the front door been opened had someone entered from the crawl space and came through a floor entrance. I had one in my last home in the closet.

Just a further thought to consider.

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by Enrique Sparta

thanks pittsburghgirl, all those articles are very helpful. on the video in the multimedia section, you can see a very quick glance at one of the bedrooms, looks like Suzie's. I wish I could freeze it and check out the picture but it won't let you. I'm gonna purchase the 48 Hours segment.

Missouri, I think you're right on when you say "find the motive, solve the crime." by the way do you have Google Earth? You'll be able to see the home from above and the entire area, all you need to do is type in the address. go to google and download it, it's free.

Thanks. I downloaded it but the free version is too blurry to make out much detail. If I had an extra $400 I'd spring for the professional version. No wonder Google's stock is selling for $484 a share as I write this. Pretty neat, nonetheless.

[Jade]

Now eaten up with curiosity about the steps the purses were found on. Most likely just a small step up as MM said from a “sunken” area but just breaks my heart to think of what was just a routine place where pocket books were kept. At first I thought there might be some sort of attic with perhaps a small dormer room led to by a narrow set of stairs.

With some sort of further education possibly expected for Suzy perhaps Sherrill was squirreling her money away.

The pictures gone from the frame leads one to think “trophies” of a madman like BTK. Totally at ease and poised enough to calmly take them out and place the empty frame back with the pictures missing just like the girls. <Shudder>

[Enrique Sparta]

mule-yeah the google earth is neat. since you lived in the area you can probably recognize a lot of the places but it's too blurry for detail. I didn't know they had a pay one, but $400!

liz-I, too, think they were already in the home. Interesting point on the photos being a "trophy" type thing. Also interesting whoever said the perps may be identifiable in those pics although that would give police a starting point. Sounds like they didn't follow through on that. I'm surprised there wasn't evidence of some type of struggle or anything at all because I believe these people expected Sherrill to be alone. Even if they cleaned up after they kidnapped the three women, you know it would be so difficult to leave nothing at all amiss, no hairs, no prints, no nothing. But so many people were in the home the next day, it's too bad.

-here's what I'm thinking. Pretty unlikely anybody followed Suzie and Stacy home. Based on the time frame given when they left the party and arrived at Suzie's house, it makes perfect sense so I don't think they stopped anywhere in between the last party and when they went to Janelle's house. Nothing seemed outta the ordinary to anybody at the party and if the abductors wanted either of these girls, there would be much better times to do it. Which means it was directed at Sherrill. Also unlikely this was a random crime. It was somebody Sherrill knew and if that's the case, VERY odd it happened to be on a night when NOBODY was gonna be home except her. I wonder if it was common for Suzie to stay at friends houses or she was out often. It could be coincidental that the grad night was gonna be picked in which Suzie was gonna be outta town or at a friend's house. But if it wasn't, that particular night was planned, then list of suspects really narrows.

[MaryLiz]

One thing that keeps bothering me is, if the attack was planned and only directed at Sherrill, and if it was someone she knew, they would have probably known Suzie was out and would not come home until very late. So why didn't they just get Sherrill when she was home alone? They would have had time with Suzie out at graduation parties. I keep thinking maybe the attack was directed at Sherrill AND Suzie. Maybe whoever did this knew that if they took Sherrill alone, Suzie might be able to point a finger at them and they would be found out. The thought crossed my mind that maybe whoever did this was parked near the home waiting for Suzie to return. Unfortunately, Stacy was with her. I just keep thinking if Sherrill was the lone target, they would have had a perfect opportunity to get her while Suzie was partying. Certainly there would have been enough time and it would have been late enough too where they could have taken Sherrill by herself. It just doesn't make sense to me that they "happened" to get to the house soon after Stacy and Suzie got there. It just keeps sounding like it was planned out in advance and they very well could have been watching.

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by liz325

One thing that keeps bothering me is, if the attack was planned and only directed at Sherrill, and if it was someone she knew, they would have probably known Suzie was out and would not come home until very late. So why didn't they just get Sherrill when she was home alone? They would have had time with Suzie out at graduation parties. I keep thinking maybe the attack was directed at Sherrill AND Suzie. Maybe whoever did this knew that if they took Sherrill alone, Suzie might be able to point a finger at them and they would be found out. The thought crossed my mind that maybe whoever did this was parked near the home waiting for Suzie to return. Unfortunately, Stacy was with her. I just keep thinking if Sherrill was the lone target, they would have had a perfect opportunity to get her while Suzie was partying. Certainly there would have been enough time and it would have been late enough too where they could have taken Sherrill by herself. It just doesn't make sense to me that they "happened" to get to the house soon after Stacy and Suzie got there. It just keeps sounding like it was planned out in advance and they very well could have been watching.

This makes sense to me. Certainly a possibility. Suzie would obviously be able to point to any number of suspects if Sherill were taken by herself. Certainly Suzie would have been able to identify the individuals in the photos.

It was said in the original reports that Stacy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's probably true.

One final thing I want to point out and then I'm pretty much exhausted on what I recall and what I can contribute. And this goes to the van. The Dodge van was apparently among the "first generation" of modern vans that are so common today for carrying cargo, etc. The question that comes to mind is that it was seen to be as "moss green" in color yet some have suggested it could have been some other color including dark blue as the van was seen in the early hours. The daylight would have come fairly early as the longest day of the year would have been about 6/20/92 when summer came. So the breaking daylight would have been about 5 PM or sooner so in addition to street lamps it would also have been identifiable through natural light.

Let's assume that the van was indeed seen on the night of the abductions and positively identified as "moss green" as shown in the photograph. (BTW, the van was a similar vehicle that was "rescued" from the scrap yard and painted to resemble the actual reported van.)

Let me briefly digress. I am reminded of two movies, "The Day of the Jackel" and "The Jackel." In both movies the vehicles were painted to throw off the the authorities. In the original movie, the vehicle was painted over the original color. In the second movie the van was painted with a water based color that was washed off to the original color.

Here's where I am coming from. In the middle of autumn I did in fact see an identical van but it was not "moss green" but dark blue. This was reported to the police along with the license plate number. I never heard anything further. Subsequently I saw this vehicle again and saw it clearly. It was always dark blue and never "moss green." But this was several months later and if a water based paint was placed on this van it is conceivable that it was painted green for the June abduction. While everyone was chasing a green van, the blue van just drove around and either wouldn't be noticed or it was discounted because it didn't fit the narrative of a "moss green" van.

[Enrique Sparta]

agree excellent points liz325

[Enrique Sparta]

the cops seemed to put all their time into this green van theory. i've read conflicting reports on the color too and your tip should've been checked, some said moss green, some said dark blue, or brown.

i wonder how credible this woman is who says she saw the green van driven by a blonde who looked like Suzie and she heard a guy say "don't do anything stupid." What did the guy then do once they were in the driveway? Did he go into a home? The cops must've had something to go on there if they believed this woman right? Who lived there? What was their story? The witness was just sitting on her porch when the van pulled up (I think)

[SupesK6]

Great discussion going here! I've been following it for some time, but felt the need to post now with just a couple things that may or may not be important. This case has fascinated me ever since I did some fundraising work with One Missing Link when I was in school at (Southwest) Missouri State. I hope one day there is a resolution. It absolutely baffles me that three people could just disappear off the face of the earth like this and no one can seem to figure out what happened.

The broken light or fixture bothers me. It just seems out of place with the rest of the scene. Why go to the trouble of tidying up (I had never heard rumors of the bleach found in the drains until it was posted here, but if true it furthers the point) but not clean up the glass from the broken light/fixture? I wonder if one of the women broke it as an indication that things were not as they seemed as they were being ushered out and the perp(s) either did not know or had to make such a hasty get-away that they didn't have time to clean it up. If so, the fact that it was missed as such a clue (though subtle) cost valuable hours early in the case. If not, it leads me to believe that the person or persons responsible didn't do anything to contrive the scene, but merely snatched and grabbed.

Also, if grand jury proceedings were initiated, against whom was evidence presented? I'd assume there would have to be a strong suspicion associated with someone in order to move forward with such things. Was it Cox? Or were there other suspects that the police had that I don't know about?

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by SupesK6

Great discussion going here! I've been following it for some time, but felt the need to post now with just a couple things that may or may not be important. This case has fascinated me ever since I did some fundraising work with One Missing Link when I was in school at (Southwest) Missouri State. I hope one day there is a resolution. It absolutely baffles me that three people could just disappear off the face of the earth like this and no one can seem to figure out what happened.

The broken light or fixture bothers me. It just seems out of place with the rest of the scene. Why go to the trouble of tidying up (I had never heard rumors of the bleach found in the drains until it was posted here, but if true it furthers the point) but not clean up the glass from the broken light/fixture? I wonder if one of the women broke it as an indication that things were not as they seemed as they were being ushered out and the perp(s) either did not know or had to make such a hasty get-away that they didn't have time to clean it up. If so, the fact that it was missed as such a clue (though subtle) cost valuable hours early in the case. If not, it leads me to believe that the person or persons responsible didn't do anything to contrive the scene, but merely snatched and grabbed.

Also, if grand jury proceedings were initiated, against whom was evidence presented? I'd assume there would have to be a strong suspicion associated with someone in order to move forward with such things. Was it Cox? Or were there other suspects that the police had that I don't know about?

The broken light or fixture was most probably done at the time that the women were being loaded into the back of the van. The debris was later cleaned up by one of the friends and not by the perps. It would follow that they wanted to make a quick "getaway" and didn't want to bother with cleaning it up. Had I been the perp I would simply have grabbed a tire tool out of the van and knocked the light out to obscure the women being loaded into the van. Of course, one might say that they could have reached inside the house and turned off the switch but that would have left a possible fingerprint after the house was scrubbed clean of evidence and they wanted to be gone without further delay. I've never really understood why this is particularly important to the investigation. It seems obvious to me what happened.

The grand jury proceedings: I have no direct knowledge but it is believed that other names were involved. I know of at least one myself who has never been mentioned in any of the stories. There are others as well, 4-5 I would think a conservative estimate. The names are not published because the evidence doesn't exist to get a conviction. However, the biggest detriment to the case is the fact the bodies have never been discovered. If that were somehow to occur, the public clamor to do something would be overwhelming and the logjam would break loose.

I believe that in fact the crime scene was in fact contrived; especially the purses and the state of the bed and clothing. Stacy left the home in her underwear, yet her shorts were laid out neatly on the bed. This was an "organized" professional job.

[Ken]

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

However, the biggest detriment to the case is the fact the bodies have never been discovered. If that were somehow to occur, the public clamor to do something would be overwhelming and the logjam would break loose.

We believe this will happen any day now. Stay tuned.

[Missouri Mule]

Can anyone think of a reason why DNA hasn't been (or perhaps it has) used to identify the individuals who were in the home that evening? I can't recall that this subject has ever been discussed.

It is said that whenever we are somewhere that we leave a little part of us behind; a strand of hair, skin, whatever. Although DNA was not yet perfected or used back then as it is now, wouldn't it have followed that the home would have been swept clean of any possible ties to the abductors?

While the DNA of the victims is unimportant because they were known to be living there, anyone else other than Bartt (as he once lived there) would have to explain what they were doing in that home. Most could be eliminated quickly such as the friends and other relatives, but if someone like Cox were there he could not explain it. His DNA is on file with the Texas Department of Corrections. And DNA is 100% reliable except in the case of identical twins.

Thoughts? Any DNA experts among the folks here?

[miles_draken]

Has some further developments come up with the scanning of the parking lot, Ken? Is that the reason you believe the bodies are going to be discovered?

[Ken]

Originally Posted by miles_draken

Has some further developments come up with the scanning of the parking lot, Ken? Is that the reason you believe the bodies are going to be discovered?

Yes. The approval that we were waiting on came through. I can't say anything more.

[Missouri Mule]

Originally Posted by Ken

Yes. The approval that we were waiting on came through. I can't say anything more.

Do you have any timeframes before they actually do something? Remember that over 14 years have elapsed already. I can't tell you how many times in my working career I've had people promise but not deliver. Hope you're right. If they say 8:00 call them at 8:15. Don't let this be delayed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The silent wheel is ignored. If this doesn't pan out it will be yet another excuse to not do any further investigation.

I hate to be negative but it could be more of the same foot dragging. But I hope that I am wrong. I hope you got this promise from someone high up the food chain. Good luck.

[Enrique Sparta]

Mule,

you're probably right in that the broken light isn't critical. However when you read a story on this case or a file or whatever it's always mentioned that the broken light shards of glass were swept up and thrown out and the police say that may have included evidence. I don't think there would've been much to go on re: evidence if Janelle and Mike hadn't swept up the glass. There's a possibility but I don't think it's likely they would've gained any important information from the broken glass. Your scenario makes more sense and the idea that they thought the broken glass was critical shows how poor the Springfield, MO Police Department handled this case.

[Ken]

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

Do you have any timeframes before they actually do something?

There is one more meeting that has to take place. Sometime next week, we will know the exact date. However, we will not be able to post it.